Help designing or finding a special purpose RC boat

[jnowell]

I'm a very skilled modeller and have designed and built RC aircarft and small speed boats in the past. I've since taken up treasure hunting and need a specially designed boat.

I basically want to tow a small towfish with Side Scan Sonar and a Magnetomoter from an RC boat. The main things I have to worry about are large payload area/displacement, and a smooth plane in realtively light choppy water. I'm thinking a deep vee hull would be best for this, but I'm open to suggestions.

This will not be a speed boat, 4 knots is the max speed for the sonar and mag. I'm good with foam and wood, and the boat doesn't have to be particularly sturdy, just good payload area and smooth plane and able to carry an additional 5 pounds or so of weight. I need to search some alligator infested waters in Florida, with no boat ramp access anywhere close.

I'm new to boats, so I guess I'm looking for ideas, good suppliers, and if at all possible, some place I can buy a nice hull pre-built that would fit my needs. I'm looking for something in the 4 foot range, and have all the electronics, electric motor, LiPo battery packs, ESC's and Servos.

I'll be sure to post pics of the project and even some side scan images...especially if i locate the wreck that I think is there. The sonar unit will be a Humminbird 997C Side Imaging Fish finder, and the mag will be a small custom built towfish (torpedo in tow if you will). Motor I have planned is an AXI 4120-18 with a 6 amp, 18V LiPo and 60 amp Castle Pheonix ESC.

Any thoughts? Thanks in advance!

Jason

[Aerominded]

Hummm, how deep would you be towing the sensor? with the potential drag of the cable, etc. it seems like you might want a boat that is fairly heavy and porwerful so that you can control it with some accuracy- perhaps a displacement hull instead of a deep V type... Also, I imagine you would want some kind of winch that you could control with the Tx to vary the depth of the sensor as well- would probably need to be a substantial winch needing a good amount of power (extra weight)

Not sure what your typical mission would be but a 6 amp battery may not give you a lot of time to 'play', dragging a sensor through the water might require full throttle, full time...

Modified Mr. Darby hull, not built as a scale boat perhaps?

[pusar]

Just my 2 cents but I would stay away from all the "hot" electronics and switch to a durable simple set up. Save all the electronics for something else. The alligators see all the good electronics they might eat your boat. :D If 4 knots is what you need look at some Johnson or Pittman motors and an ESC like a Novak.

Check out some hulls on e-bay or the net:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Big-seaworthy-high-quality-fishing-boat-hull_W0QQitemZ190103658873QQihZ009QQcategoryZ2564Q QrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

A Dumas Darby completed can weigh in at 60 lbs and pull 2 people in a boat. You may want to check into some tug hulls???? The deep v hull may limit your cargo area and weight. The big tug hull should be more stable and maneuverable.


Marty



As I just posted... I see Aerominded beat me to it. It looks like you are thinking on the sametrack as me! (He must be a genius) :D Ha Ha

[nick_75au]

Couple of questions, do you want the boat to go faster than the 4 kn you mentioned. if not then a displacement hull such as a tug will be better. A springer hull can hold 8 1/2 pounds as an example and most of that weight is 2 4.5 amp gel led acid batteries. You may want to look at gearing the motor 2:1 or more, 9000 rpm is a little high if you go the displacement hull route.
If it were me doing this project i would build a springer style hull make it about 1.5 times wider and extend the lowest part of the hull with a flat section. gear the motor to 3 to 1 and use a larger prop maybe 60 mm diameter or so. Not 100% sure on the prop some experimenting may be in order here. Without being an expert on the matter I think this will give you heaps of power for towing the towfish.
The good thing about a springer hull is they are so easy to build.
Im curious on how you will view the data remotely as Ive sort of been looking at a similar project.
regards
Nick

in the time it took me to write my post two others have chimed in with basicaly the same thing to say. seem great minds realy do think alike :D

[pusar]

I concur gentlemen :D

All in favor of this set up...

Raise your right hand....

[jnowell]

Excellent stuff guys, thanks! I was on Ebay looking at some hulls, but hadn;'t thought about a tug...plenty of room and displacement. To answer a few questions, the towfish will be a 2" diameter PVC pipe and a foot long, and the layback/cable will only be about 5-7 feet long, so drag won't be a huge issue. This boat will never need to go faster than 4 knots, 2 would suffice.

The area is an inland lagoon that is sheltered on all sides, and only about 30-35 feet deep. We did some beach hunting there and found a lot of artifacts that fit the 1715 time period of the Spanish galleon wrecks off Florida's East Coast. The sdie scan actually has a transom mount transducer and I plan to build a similar sized towfish for it. They will be towed one at a time.

I plan to transmit the mag readouts back to shore...that;s easy as it's just a digital signal, so I can boost and transmit and recieve on the shore through a simple 2.4 Ghz. system like a cordless phone. I have a myriad of brushed and brushless motors, and need to stay electric to keep the noise to an absolute minimum...I'm kinda breaking the law with what I want to do. I just want to appear to be a guy playing with his toy boat to any passers by. :D The Hummonbird 997C side scan has a record function, it logs the images and GPS coords to an SD card for later playback. Once we locate the ship, we will fire a few 12 gauge rounds into the water to scare of the gators, and then dive very quickly. Actually once you get under the water, they leave you alone...it's the floating on the surface that can get you into trouble.

[jnowell]

Just for grins, here are some of the artifacts we found:

[Kmot]

Fascinating! This sounds like National Geographic. :D

I wonder about a catamaran instead of a tug? Dual hulls, spread wide apart make an unbeatable platform for stability. And the deck between them makes for a lot of area to mount/stow equipment.

[LtDoc]

jnowell,
Since 'payload' would seem to be the biggy, not looks, have you thought about a fairly large block of foam sort of shaped like a hull? I've seen things like that used by fishermen pull out some fairly good sized runs of line. They weren't R/C but shouldn't be hard to 'convert'. Stick in a car battery and it ought to last much longer than you will - LOL.
- 'Doc

[jnowell]

National Geographic...funny you should say that, we are gearing up to shoot with Discovery channel pretty soon. :D

I had thought about the chuck of foam thing, but it really is fairly important for me to appear to just be a guy playing with his RC boat...all the electronics will be hidden in the hull. A big chuck of foam with a sonar unit on top would be so discreet. :D For the record, I'm only breaking the law looking for the ship...before I start any water recovery, I will get the state archaeologists involved and do things by the book. It's a TON of money to get an exploration permit...and I'm not certain there is even anything there. I just want to make sure I have something before going through the legal hassles of making things right with the state.

Here's some pics of me doing my thing, and a side scan image of a wreck we found previously.

Jason

[Shaun Hendricks]

I'd go catamaran, dual pontoon style. Center your retrieval gear and keep very positive bouyancy. Dual motor (one in each pod maybe). Use large cordless drill motors as these have really long brush life and are easy enough to get. With an ESC per motor you'll get vector thrust steerability and if the pontoons are far enough apart you can spin the critter on its center axis. Gear the motors right and you could use props from trolling motors to give you the power to move that sonar about anywhere.

[smart_racer]

Very interesting...don't forget - "it's legal until you get caught"

[keith S]

The twin hull/ pontoon style would give you a much better platform to work from than a tug hull ( rolly polly at times). This would give you the stability you need to get a clear picture of the scan, displacement for battery(s), and great platform for mounting the eqipment you want to use. To make it look convincing, you make a top that could resemble a NOAA/research/navel vessel of the future just to throw folks off ( kind of tounge and cheek play now).

[arrow5]

Wow Springers go commercial ! I agree that Bugsier style tug simplified below the deck line would get the job done. What apart from constant 12 guage shots into the water what would prevent the crocs/gators from thinking "I`ll just have a bite of that to see if it tastes nice" ? Deploying dye or un-natural measures, strobes lights, sonar pinger etc. Fish and Game folk might have a word to say on that score. It is a fascinating project. Have you been to the RPV and Aerial Photography pages here on RCGroups? Hope you find a casket of bullion. I also agree that an outrunner is not the route to go , very simple cheap electronics to operate the vessel, no lipos etc. Plus of course legal surface craft frequencies.

[green-boat]

I'm kinda breaking the law with what I want to do.
Youv'e got my attention.

I think that you would be better off with some kind of large tug where you have plenty of room for your equipment. With everything hidden inside of the boat you wouldn't draw any attention to yourself. You could have a concealed jack hidden under a cover on the deck for your side scan. Just flip the lid and plug in, download right on site. You can rig the GPS to a wireless link so you can have a laptop on shore plotting where you have scanned.

This sounds like fun.

[Ghost 2501]

The twin hull/ pontoon style would give you a much better platform to work from than a tug hull ( rolly polly at times). This would give you the stability you need to get a clear picture of the scan, displacement for battery(s), and great platform for mounting the eqipment you want to use. To make it look convincing, you make a top that could resemble a NOAA/research/navel vessel of the future just to throw folks off ( kind of tounge and cheek play now).

odd idea, try SWATH.

Small
Waterplane
Area
Twin
hull

like a regular cat except it has pontoon hulls below water and a thin transition area that breaks the water, more stable than your average cat

[jnowell]

I'm kinda diggin' the SWATH idea...I think I've seen a high speed military vehicle with that type hull. Probably I will buy the best suited cheap hull from Ebay and then deck it out with stuff I've got.

Off the top of my head, I've got some old 7.2v 3000 mAh NimH packs from my touring car days, and several 550 class motors with gearboxes, probably a matched set somewhere...have to look. At 3-4 knots, I think it's possible that 370 can motor geared 6:1 might just do the trick. I could run a pair of those for 30 minutes on those two packs, and use the lipo's to power the sonar.

I've got a lot of stuff...just laying around from my E-flying days, none of it gets used anymore. I just want to put it to use and this will be a cool toy for searching small areas on the fly. There aren't really that many gators in this pond. In fact, we saw one in a similar pond a few miles away, so I'm basically assuming there could be some here as well. They don't like sonar and electric motors...wading around near shore would be stupid though.

I'm off to ebay, I'll post some possibles here and you guys can give me your opinions on which one would be best. THEN i'll start asking questions about how to set it up. :D

You guys have been great, I promise I'll share pics all the way through the process, side scan images, and even the treasure I find if any. If I find a bunch I'll share. LOL

[jnowell]

OK, so I found this catamaran design really cheap, already rigged with 2 550's and RC system. It's 40" x 12.5" which would fit everything I need inside. For $69, I may buy this and strip all the crap electronics out and retrofit what I want into it.

[Ghost 2501]

ikk bang steering

[Kmot]

Jason, that is not exactly what I meant by catamaran. Although it certainly is a catamaran hull.

Anyway, these cheap ChiCom toy boats are knock offs of the Japanese stuff. This particular boat is a knock off of the Kyosho cat. But these have crap for electronics. You will have to throw it all away. Thes things are strictly "on-off" with both the throttle and steering. Difficult to control and impossible to modulate the throttle.

But if you have r/c gear left over from before, you can certainly install it.

This is more of the catamaran style I was thinking about:

http://www.solarnavigator.net/images/catamaran_model_into_wind.jpg

http://www.tauruslogistics.co.nz/images/catamaran_018.jpg

http://www.bayacht.com/aaa/fp/trawlers/m37/Arles/images/Bow.jpg

[Aerominded]

Yeah, considering what it is you are planning to do, I wouldn't be inclined to go 'cheap'... I like the looks of the first cat, Kmot-

[steveciambrone]

PVC pipe has endless uses.

Steve

[Shaun Hendricks]

Kmot... exactly what I was thinking like. Dunno where you found the picture!

Tho, not sure I'd need dual air/water prop drive! LOL! Wonder why he has both above and below propulsion? Seems fairly inefficient!

[Kmot]

I believe the props are for wind driven generators. It also has solar panels on it.

[MUG1982]

NOAA SWATH ship...lol...might as well show SOME truth eh...at least you would be using a scale model research vessel for Marine Archeological expeditions. Sorry the link I got is kinda long...I guess that depending on how much you want this to look like just some guy playing with his rc boat...its a real ship...I think...and hey...depending on how detailed you got it...no one is likely to care about exactly whats inside it...course a bigger scale gives you more room to play with...and it goes along the hull type that everyone seems to agree is more appropriate for your project.

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.coltoncompany.com/newsandcomment/news/swath.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.coltoncompany.com/newsandcomment/news/2006/09.htm&h=216&w=288&sz=12&hl=en&start=20&sig2=oVYh0TUblyBpYR0tOuCYVg&tbnid=K-67kf93CRtlEM:&tbnh=86&tbnw=115&ei=CAonRqTGGJ2whASDyMidDw&prev=/images%3Fq%3DSWATH%26gbv%3D2%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3De n

Hope this helps...

Kevin

[MUG1982]

There is also the Radisson Diamond which is a SWATH cruise ship.

Kevin

[Ghost 2501]

I believe the props are for wind driven generators. It also has solar panels on it.

yep Tom, those are wind turbines to generate power at night or in other dark conditions where the solar pannels are not generating enough power. The hull sonsons probably have batteries as well

[SDJ]

Just my two cents worth :)

[RhumbLine]

Swath is really cool! However they have limatations like all designs do. One is manuverability. Most have overcome by utilizing dual acting bow thrusters in each hull and some with steerable kort nozzles. As the Captain of this boat says. As a boat it's not real fast, but it really moves out for a Condo! :D M/V NEKTON PILOT Ft. Lauderdale, FL built specifically as a dive boat.

[nick_75au]

Ive never built a swath so my opinion could be completly wrong :) but arn't they a little complicated to set up. I belive they are especialy critical in getting displacement right , not something you would want with this project. I remember reading a post about Sea Shadow and the difficultys in getting it right. Keep it simple.
regards
Nick

They would be a cool boat to build though :D

[MILLERTIME]

Here's what you need.
A Redneck house boat.

[jnowell]

I LOVE the redneck house boat...best idea yet. :D

NOW I understand what you guys meant by catamaran...that solar powered job is pretty cool. I do need it to look more toyish, because the area I'll be in is...let's just say...very secure. I'm trying not to give away the farm here...LOL but it's not a place they want you goofing around with high tech gadgets.

I bought the silly toy boat for $44 on Ebay (do NOT drink a 12 pack and hop on Ebay!!)...I'm sure it will at least have some parts I can use...but yes, the plan was always to use my old Futaba pistol grip car radio and replace most of not all of the electronics. The motors, shafts, and props out of the Ebay boat will probably help me...who knows, maybe I'll cut the hull in half, spread the pontoons with PVC, and make it into a copy of the solar boat structure.

I talked to one of the state archaeologists, and asked him about my RC idea as a hypothetical question, and he actually said it was a great loophole I had found, and wasn't actually breaking the law at all. The technology wasn't there a few short years ago to pull this off without a BIG vessel. Ocean going vessels are what are prohibited from towing search technology without an exploration lease, and they are specifically defined as to what constitutes and ocean going vessel...my toy will not meet those requirements. :D

I've ordered a bunch of stuff, and it should all be arriving in the coming week. Next weekend, we'll turn this into a build thread..and see if we can't sink a $2K Humminbird Side Imaging fish finder. :D :D :D

I still really want to think about transmitting the transducer signal back to the shore, and have the actual Humminbird unit in my lap. It sends sonar pings 40 times a second though, so the lag of re-transmitting would likely throw it out of synch. The other idea I have is to mount the Sonar screen up top, and point my little wireless camera (from an old RC video-plane) at it and watch on my camcorder screen or a portable TV from shore.

Thanks for all the help and ideas, I'm a pretty good engineering type thinker...but you guys have put me on the right track. I appreciate it alot.

Jason

[Shaun Hendricks]

Jason:

A bunch of PVC pipe probably wouldn't meet the definition of "Ocean Going Vessel" in anyone's book. Call it a remote controlled sprinker system for watering kelp if you want... :D
I think this could easily be done with PVC only, for the pontoons and frame. You could fill the pontoons with styrofoam and it would basically be unsinkable in case something goes really wrong with the tow. It would be a toy and even a toy could be considered an RPV (ROV) in the use you are doing, but if the definition is Ocean Going Vessel, yours would not qualify as it doesn't have to be registered (under length).
So I'd keep it simple, keep it boyant, keep it cheap. I'm starting to think about building an RC Lazy-Boy with the same specs... LOL!

SWATH isn't that tough, the trick is that the pontoons must stay below the surface so that the surface of the water is pierced by the struts (like a fully submerged hydrofoil does). Thus there is an adjustable ballast requirement just like submarines and cargo vessels have. The tough part is making such a system foolproof and I can provide many examples of the fact that adjustable ballast is never foolproof. The Cougar Ace comes to mind immediately...

[jnowell]

Yeah, we tried to build a true underwater ROV once...with that adjustable ballast stuff...it's still somewhere off the coast of Ft. Pierce Florida if anyone wants it. LOL

I'm pretty much set on what I want to do I think...cut cheapo toy boat in half, join with PVC and build custom equipment platform, replace all crappy electronics with good stuff...go find shipwreck! That should be simple enough. :D I will probably add some styro to it strategically to up the displacement capacity...and make it un-sinkable. Didn't someone else build an unsinkable ship once??? ;)

[Kmot]

Didn't someone else build an unsinkable ship once???

Yeah, but they forgot the foam flotation. :D

[Umi_Ryuzuki]

I am surprised none of these guys recommended you to the Vac U tug, or Vac U tow boats. They are simple, and will tow your array and will have better power than any "toy" available.

http://www.vac-u-boat.com/

Your array does not have to be on the boat does it?
It could be attached to a pvc pipe and foam floatation barge, or at least hung from the barge, or flotation rig. Then the model boat could just push it, or tow it behind.
Even a small barge will support 20-30 pounds of equipment.

[jnowell]

Umi, the only thing I see is called a Vacu-Tug Jr. and it's too small and only displaces about 6.5 lbs. Is there a bigger one? I love the boat and the construction method...I just need about a 12" beam, the Jr. is only 8.5" or something.

Their won't be an array, each device will be towed seperately. I'll most likely have a camera looking down, maybe even on a servo for 360 degree directional control that will broadcast video back to shore. The transducer for the sonar can either be hull mounted or towed behind on a towfish...I plan to use the latter. The magnetometer is almost a pipe dream, but I'm going to look into building one small enough for this.

The actual fishfinder part of the sonar unit will have to be onboard. It will record and playback the data and GPS. It's big and heavy, which is why I'm toying around with the 40" junk Ebay boat. I'll most likely prove my theories with this version in the lakes around here while working on a final version to take to Florida.

Thanks,

Jason

[jnowell]

Sorry Umi, I mis-read your post. I suppose everything could be on a barge....hadn't thought about that. I think i'd rather have it set up like a floating ROV with a lot of stuff on one vessel...just for simplicity, but the idea has some merrit.

Jason

[Umi_Ryuzuki]

I would imagine that a tug barge combination would be more versatile.

The tug would be a nice power and steering package, and the barge would take most of the weight of your equipment.

If you make two barges, the tug could be quickly moved and tied up to a second equipment package, and sent back out to work.
And barges can quickly be cut out of rigid insulation foam.
Probably four barges per sheet @ 12"x48" or two @ 24"x48"

;)

A notch barge, or ATB type combo would make this really slick.
http://www.columbiariverbarpilots.com/Picture_gallery/ships_crossing_the_bar/30ATBFeb13the.jpg

http://www.vac-u-boat.com/Vac-U-Tow.htm

[Aerominded]

(do NOT drink a 12 pack and hop on Ebay!!)...

Jason

LOL!!!

[arrow5]

jnowell; Have a look at Genius`s New York water taxi in the Scale Boats section here on RCGroups if your craft has to be one unit. Plenty of "scale" hiding space for your hidden electronics. Black stick-on "windows" and NY taxi livery would throw the nosey off-track. The barge idea has merits too for inter-changeabilty of scanner types, one ready to go( or charging,downloading etc) in the car, one afloat at work.

[boyntonstu]

I am building a slow air-catamaran out of foam noodles and 1/2" pvc pipe.

It will carry an underwater wireless video camera and transmitter.

I have the video gear and the noodles.

I need the radio and the brushless motor setup.

Air will be quiet, less disturbing to the fish, and will not snag.

Basicallty, a foam cat and a plastic shoebox.

A pair of 6 AH SLA batts. The motor 12V and run the receiver and servos directly off one of the batts.

I am in Boynton Beach, FL

[jnowell]

Oddly enough, the Ebay seller for the junk boat has PayPal problems, so I griped to Ebay and they cancelled the sale. :D After mulling over what I want from this thing, and sorting through all of the great ideas I got here...I think I have my plan formulated...a little different than the original.

I will probably just build a catamaran from foam-filled PVC with a center box with enough cargo space for what I need. Motor in each pod with thrust vectored steering and maybe rudders too? I've changed my mind on the radio system, and will use my 7 channel Futaba aircraft TX (converted to land based frequency) due to the increased complexity of my "new" design.

The fishfinder/sonar unit will ride on-board, with the transducer mounted on a small towfish on a 10 foot cable. There will be a wireless camera focused on the LCD screen of the fish finder transmitting video of the side scan image and GPS data back to shore. So far so good right?

NOW, my newest idea is to suspend another wireless camera via cable (power and video between camera and transmitter) under the boat. This will be on a winch system using a HiTech high torque metal gear servo that I have...I remember taking the feedback pot out (or breaking off the stops) and it would turn indefinitely when given control inputs, so I'll modify the servo and put a spool on it to raise and lower the camera. If anyone has done this recently, refresh my memory on the procedure.

Now I can drive around watching the sonar screen for objects, logging GPS coordinates as I go. When a target shows up on the sonar, I can drive over to it with the camera lowered and take a closer look. If it's a good target, I'll have the GPS coordinates to dive on.

For the camera, I'm thinking of another torpedo like towfish (much smaller) with a clear plexi-glass dome for the nose. Then mount the tiny wireless camera in the bubble. I have some super high intensity LED's that can be mounted under the towfish to light up the bottom too.

So that's the "final" design that I'm going to start building and aquiring parts for. Need some recommendation for props and where to get them, obviously big, slow turning props are what I need. I picked up some 18v cordless drills today at Harbor Freight for $16 each. Any thoughts or recommendations on the power plants would be a huge help.

I'll draw up some hull sketches and post a little later for review. Basically 4" tubes with the rounded corners on the front, capped off. And flat caps on the rear...prop shaft will exit through the rear caps. What's the best way to make a sealed shaft exit...never done that from scratch before.

Thanks for all the great ideas...this is about to become very cool me thinks. :D :D :D


Jason

[Kmot]

Here is an idea for the camera shape:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=91309

[jnowell]

Thanks Tom, we actually had one of those at one point, but I had forgotten how simple and effective the camera module was.

Has anyone found a good solution for pulling multiple voltages from say a 24V power source. I'll need 18V, 12V, 9V, and 5V, and would really like to have a single 24V power source (2 SLD or Gel type batts). Looked into buck voltage regulators...they would work well, but i'd have to put 5 or 6 together. I was hoping there was a "magic box" that would split it all up for me...probably asking too much here. :rolleyes:

[keith S]

jnowell, I beleive HarborModels.com has a modual that will do the trick for you.

[keith S]

i believe Harbor Models ( harbormodels.com ) has a power distribution box that would do the job.

[jnowell]

Thanks Keith, that's exactly what I was looking for. :)

I took the cordless drills apart last night. Nice little motors and gearboxes. Looks like I can order the 60mm kort nozzle/prop assemblies and shafts from harbor and it'll make a pretty well matched power set. More later...gotta go order some parts.

Jason

[jnowell]

OK, now I have one of those stupid ideas that just might be brilliant...but probably not. :D I was scouring the local stores looking for anything that might make a nice pre-fab pontoon for the catamaran...an old man at the hardware store asked if he could help, and I said "no, I'm looking for something crazy, and I don't know what it is". He laughed and asked for an explanation. When I got done, he took me over and showed me some plastic wheelbarrows. You never know right? So, tell me this isn't a huge Springer type hull. I doubt it would be very stable and would be kinda draggy...but then again we might see a whole new class open up...wheelbarrow boats. :D As we say down here in Texas...I aint right!

So seriously...some of you more experienced guys care to elaborate on how bad this would be??? Could I make it work?

[Kmot]

So, tell me this isn't a huge Springer type hull.

Dang, I think you may be right! :D

[jnowell]

But seriously, if I ballasted it right...would it work??? it'd sure make my life easy.

[Kmot]

I don't know. You need to get feedback from the big tug guys.

[Shaun Hendricks]

Or construction workers... :rolleyes:

[LtDoc]

Would it work? Or could you make it work? I'm sure you could if you went about it right. But just how useful would it actually be? ... 'Tippy-canoe-and-tire-too'? And you're right! You just ain't 'right'.
- 'Doc

But if you make it, would take pictures?

[jnowell]

LOL - Well at least we all agree on something...I aint right. :D I just like to think outside the box..sometimes my box is VERY large. Just you wait...wheelbarrow boats will be all the rage by this time next year. LOL

I think I actually like it for my use...my only requirements were lots of cargo space...check....slow speed....check....looks like an idiot playing with a toy....definitely check. :D I did some more searching, and found some slightly smaller kids toys that are shaped a little more correctly. Maybe I'll buy one and you guys can have a good laugh at my expense, it won't be the first or last time I'm been the butt of a few jokes. :)

Jason

[Umi_Ryuzuki]

As I like to say, "Anything can be made RC,... anything..."

:D

[Shaun Hendricks]

You could probably pick up a few sponsors too:

Home Depot
Lowe's
Johnny's Concrete Company

Just to name a few.

[jnowell]

Johnny's Concrete....Good one!

This is all good fun, but I still have to find a hull. I live in the middle of nowhere, so I can't go down to my local hobby shop and pick anything up. Haven't seen anything online that fits the bill...so I'm improvising unless someone has a better idea. I did see some big Crayola Crayon banks that were about 3 feet long...would make nice pontoons but I'd have to fill in some holes...and coin slots. I can feel people cringing as I type. LOL

I DO want to do this right...but I can't spend $1,000 on a hull either. I am open to suggestions...and will continue to throw silly-a** ideas at you until I figure something out...my apologies. I am a DIY'er at heart...and hacking something together is almost as much fun to me building a nice scale model. I'm the guy who first RC'd the Acro Bipe toy from Hobby Lobby...it really WAS all the rage for a few years. :D Don't under-estimate a creative fool! LOL

[Rex R]

a few thoughts. don't use presure rated pvc pipe, drain pipe(thinwall) would be better suited. a sheet of extruded polystyrene insulation board(2") and a tube of construction adhesive could be used to make foam cores, skinned with 1/32" plywood(doorskin?) and you have pontoons/sponsons(or make a hull) hth
rex

[toesup]

LOL - Well at least we all agree on something...I aint right.

Erm.. i rather LIKE the idea of a wheelbarrow boat.. Big kort nozzle, large slow 4 bladed prop..

Hmm.. Lowes tomorrow i think..:eek:

[Mrs. Toe's]

Erm.. i rather LIKE the idea of a wheelbarrow boat.. Big kort nozzle, large slow 4 bladed prop..

Hmm.. Lowes tomorrow i think..:eek:

Thanks guys... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: Like he needs more projects! :p :D

[jnowell]

My apologies to the Mrs. :D Sometimes my silly ideas catch on, sometimes not so much.

To the Mr., I have 2 cordless drills taken apart with 18v 550 can motors in them. Big, slow, 4 bladed props are exactly what I need. So lets say I leave the gearboxes in place on the drill motors and run 12 or 18 volts...how big a prop do you think I could turn with that config, or should I just remove the gearing. Any opinions on that would be appreciated, I'm still quite new to this boat thing (as if that wasn't apparent enough). :D

Jason

[arrow5]

Erm.. i rather LIKE the idea of a wheelbarrow boat.. Big kort nozzle, large slow 4 bladed prop..

Hmm.. Lowes tomorrow i think..:eek:
I knew it, I knew it ....he`s planning a man-carrying Super-Springer :eek: ! Have him certified :mad: Mrs Toes.

[Kmot]

I was looking at wheelbarrow's last night myself! I really like this idea. :D

Toes, some to look at are the Radio Flyer kids wheelbarrow, the John Deere kids wheel barrow, and the Seymour kids wheelbarrow. These are all smaller in size and would make good model 'tugs'. Of the standard size wheelbarrows, Lowes carries a 4 cu. ft. model that looks suitable, made by True Temper. All the above have the shallower shaped 'hull'. The others have that really deep hull shape. I don't know if that would be better or worse. But in any case, none of the kids size wheelbarrows have the deep bucket/bowl/hull or whatever it is called.

[jnowell]

All of the kids toy wheelbarrows I can get here are steel...is this a good or a bad thing? The Seymour is plastic...available from Ace Hardware, but it has that deep hull problem. The Steel hull is somewhat desirable to me, and won't interfere with any of my "extra" electronics...I assume if I route the RX antenna out the top without any hull contact the RC system should be fine...right?

I think I'm going to get the metal True Temper 4 Cubic Foot model today...that metal hull will make a great motor heat sink. :D

[Umi_Ryuzuki]

Oh no,... Barrow class RC tugs... :eek:

The metal hull is a cool idea.
But how much are these things going to weigh?
Draw a waterline 4 or 5 inches down from the top edge, set it in the water and load it up!!

The antenna should be fine as long as you bring it up out of the boat. ;)
You may need to ground the motor though.

[jnowell]

OK, I got the toy Radio Flyer "Barrow Tug" at lunch today. I looked at the 4 cubic foot model, but it was just huge, and was real heavy guage steel too, weighed about 20 lbs. The toy has nice light guage steel and is more the right size. It might be a bit of a squeeze to get everything in, but it looks do-able.

I'll get started tonight and post some pics...with the flat bottom and rounded front it makes a pretty decent hull.

[Shaun Hendricks]

You could use a hudson sprayer tank or gallon jugs as 'ballast tanks', even plastic gas cans from the next shelf over! Put a drill pump on a servo switch and fill them with water or pump them out so you can carry 'cargo' in the Barrow Boat.

Waterproof drive some wheels and you could have an amphibious Barrow Boat!

If you used a couple of bilge or sump pumps, you could have jet drive with 360° nozzle maneuverability and 12V battery ability! Endless possibilities... now to put that 3 cylinder PWC jet drive in it and turn it into a planing hull... LOL!

[Kmot]

OK, I got the toy Radio Flyer "Barrow Tug" at lunch today.

Jealous I am!! :D

[toesup]

If you used a couple of bilge or sump pumps, you could have jet drive with 360° nozzle maneuverability and 12V battery ability! Endless possibilities... now to put that 3 cylinder PWC jet drive in it and turn it into a planing hull... LOL!

.. or a piece of PVC drainage pipe with a BIG 4 bladed prop and have a huge Kort nozzle...

PS Looks like Mrs Toes has trodden on my wheelbarrow boat idea's..:(:o

[Shaun Hendricks]

Is that toes stepping on toes? I'm confused... :confused: :D

[Kmot]

If toes steps on toes, does that make toe jam? :p

[Mrs. Toe's]

.. or a piece of PVC drainage pipe with a BIG 4 bladed prop and have a huge Kort nozzle...

PS Looks like Mrs Toes has trodden on my wheelbarrow boat idea's..:(:o

I wish to formally clear my name of above mentioned accusations! :p

I merely stated "No" to the puny size of the blade prop that he was suggesting. If yer gonna be working on such a hull, give it a prop sturdy enough to do the work! mutter...mutter...talking 4" prop...mutter...InDeed!...mutter :censored:

[jnowell]

Let the record show that Mrs. Toes was merely suggesting a power upgrade. Move to strike previous allegations by Mr. Toes of a barrow-boat veto. :)

I'm kinda diggin' this hull, kinda squatty and cartoonish...I'm considering designing a cartoon like super-structure to complete the look. I shall love him and hug him and call him Thomas the Tug. :D When he's cruisin' the salt marshes, he won't even know he was once a mere wheelbarrow. LOL - I crack me up.

Gonna be a little different mounting everything to steel though...I had to put away the epoxy. ??? I'm thinking I'll drill everything and bolt it together...with some little rubber discs as washers...better ideas?

Pics in a bit.

Jason

[jnowell]

Here you go...there a RS550 in there for size reference...and some toes just because. :D

[Kmot]

Yeah, that's cool! I can picture all sorts of possibilities. :D

As for epoxy, get JB-Weld. It will hold to metal. Just need to scrape/grind the paint off where you will apply the epoxy.

[MILLERTIME]

You don't have to be crazy to read this forum, but it helps!!! :)
Rc Groups is fun. :D

[green-boat]

They do make plastic tubbed wheelbarrows.

[jnowell]

Oh yeah, they make 'em in plastic...but it's that dang ABS plastic....paints and glues don't adhere very well...that's why I went with metal. Also the plastic ones all seem to have a big "dip" on the bottom, which looks to me like it would make them less stable...did I just say less stable than a metal wheelbarrow...that's just wrong! LOL

OK fine Tom, I guess I'll put the welder up and go get some JB Weld. :D

[green-boat]

Oh yeah, they make 'em in plastic...but it's that dang ABS plastic....paints and glues don't adhere very well...
Well I didn't say that they were perfect.

Personally I would weld up the holes in the bottom of the tub. Then you could braze the stuffing tub in place.

[MILLERTIME]

Why not?

Don M.

[arrow5]

Call it "Thomas the THUG"

[Shaun Hendricks]

Iffin y'all are serious about this stuff... look up mortar mixing tubs at your local home supply store. They come in about 4-5 different sizes. All the way from smallish, plastic ones that would make an excellent hull to HUGE Galvanized metal ones that would make a great 'Large Barge' hull. They are flat and usually have sloped ends that would make great barges.

I have one of the plastic ones, tough as nails and would be easy to drill and mount things too.

[Kmot]

Instant barges! I like that! :D

http://www.tufftubs.com/htdocs/images/sled.jpg

[LtDoc]

You know, leaving the aft hull 'flat' and adding several motors (depending on the size of the motors and the 'barrow'), you could also add a dozer blade to the front and move ~LOTS~ of water...
- 'Doc

I attribute that kind'a thinking to too much coffee. I guess it could be from something else though. But really! It's just coffee.

[jnowell]

Doc....you're not implying that this hull will be hydro-dynamically inefficient are you??? :D Ease of build, cost, durability, funny looks....who cares about efficiency! LOL It will serve my purpose well, and if you decide not to participate in the annual barrow-boat races...we'll forgive you.

If they can make a lawnmower fly, I can make a wheelbarrow into a research vessel. :D

Jason

[jnowell]

OK, so I went to place some orders today, and Harbor Models is out of the 60mm Kort nozzles / prop combos...and won't have them for at least 3 weeks. I'm impatient, I got some stuff from Off-Shore electrics but not everything.

Who are the good vendors you guys deal with?

Thanks!

[Boatfox]

Look for an old trolling motor....or drill motors... Use the gearing and have a long run time. The trolling motor can provide a prop. Start taking pics of all the pieces too....we all want to see what madness you're up to.
I found some monster scooter motors on EBay'd. $10.00...good to 15 amp, will twist the shaft off the boat if need be. They are a little large, but rate very efficient. :p

[jnowell]

I already have cordless drill motors...mounts and cooling systems on the way. I really want to use kort nozzles, but the only place I've found them is out of stock. I went to Mack's or something like that today...they have lots of stuff, but not the nice little Robbe Kort's like i want. Is there some grand RC boat warehouse that I'm missing? i'm Googled out. :D

[Umi_Ryuzuki]

PVC pipe and some creative sanding?

:p

[Huntsman]

In six pages we get from an illegal treasure hunter to a floating RC controlled wheelbarrow and hardly anyone bats an eyelid!

Outstanding..



The New Frontier is alive and well!!

:D

[Mrs. Toe's]

Toesup asked in passing about what other manner of boat-type craft could be found hidden in the depths of the local DIY.... And after a bit of a think, how about a pontoon boat? A half dozen of the hugh plastic buckets sealed tight, a PVC pipe frame, the drive-shaft from a weed-eater and a cordless drill engine....yeah, that could work! :D

[LtDoc]

jnowell,
I don't think I said anything about efficiency. Just moving lots of water... you know, move it out of the way, set the pier footings, then move it back so boats can get to the pier.
- 'Doc

[jnowell]

LOL Doc...I'll have to try that.

Huntsman:

Just for the record....so it's out here in plain view....I am not actually an illegal treasure hunter...I have 1 exploration lease and 2 recovery leases with the state of Florida. I am a member of the Marine Archeology and Historical Society, and follow all protocols of archaeological excavation, report all finds to the Florida Board of Historical Resources, and turn everything I find into the state for preservation and cataloging. The real problem was that it costs about $8K to get an exploration lease...so I want to verify there is something to explore before spending that kind of cash. :D

The only thing illegal was towing search instrumentation behind a registered boat. The RC WheelBarrow gets me around this legislation...so in effect, the barrow boat makes it legal...which is the point of this thread.

I know you weren't accusing me of anything, but I wanted to clear up any questions of legality that might have come up. I've known Jim Bourke for a long time, and use to work here at RC Groups for him...I'd hate for him to see me at the helm of a thread about something illegal...it is not. Sorry, wanted to get that off my chest for a while, and you gave me a perfect opportunity.

Now back to the barrow boats. :D I closed up the holes in the hull last night by JB welding "punch outs" from electrical boxes over them. She's water tight now, and floated all the equipment and batts (plus a 5 lb. diving weight) with ease. Pretty stable too!

Jas

[Huntsman]

Glad to have been of help

[toesup]

:o... erm... :o

We...erm... went in to Lowe's earlier... just looking, you understand..:o

A Childs wheelbarrow, approx 23" x 16" just happened to jump in to our cart.. together with a piece of 2" dia PVC pipe.... :o

Oooopppppsssss :o

[Kmot]

SKU Number? :D

[toesup]

SKU Number? :D

I cant find one on it.. or on its package...

Its a Kids one, priced at $21.98 (inc tax).. and $1 for the Kort nozzle.. :eek::D:o

[jnowell]

SWEET! Congrats Toes! I had the same problem several times today....I placed orders with Mack's, Harbor, and offshore electrics today....just looking of course....but the dang parts just dropped in my basket...LOL.

I hope to make a little progress this weekend, which should include some pics. Best of luck, and do share your ideas and setups in this thread...I'd love to see what you guys come up with....just make sure that hubby of yours puts enough power in it. :D

Should I rename this thread to "The Barrow Boat Revolution"? :D

Jason

[Kmot]

This is getting very interesting! ;)