Off Topic - Virginia Tech

[Kmot]

I just heard the news. I will pray for the families of the victims. I hope no one here has loved ones affected. I can't understand what is driving young people to do these terrible things........ :(

[patmat2350]

I suspect, from the fact the he attacked in an engineering dept., that he was an engineering student... I can tell you it's a grueling stressful program, but we mostly blew off steam with beer parties... some just lose it I guess.

PM

[tugboater]

Well... it's a big problem. I just hope that those wounded heal quickly, and those killed will forever rest in peace.

-Ryan

[keith S]

Another sad day in the history of young people going to school to learn the important parts of life. Unfortunently this is not what they ( or enyone else) came to expect in higher education. May those effected find peace and understanding to sort things out and continue on. May the greiving find peace and confort in each other and the memories of loved ones lost/injured. May the rest of us support those that need it most and watch out for one another to hopefully prevent more trageties like this from happening again.

[Ghost 2501]

may the people killed rest in peace with the lord

Something has to be done to prevent another massacre

[der kapitan]

I find this a tragedy beyond explanation. As yet, there has been little information presented as to a motive, or whatever it was that tripped the shooter off.

What is apparently known is that he had two handguns, and a large amount of ready ammo clips to feed them. Hardly something that a student would have laying about in his dorm room---.

Hopefully, the idiot media will treat this sad event with some serious consideration, and not draw it out forever like that Anna Nicole Smith circus---.

[patmat2350]

My worry- continued media mentions of "the biggest number of casualties ever". Just gives other nuts a new goal...

Soapbox time: Any injury or loss of life is tragic, especially in such a setting. At least it's relatively rare. Today, some 120 people will die needlessly on our roads... as happened yesterday, and will happen again tommorrow, and the day after that- every day of every year, add 'em up.
Remember, it's not just "your" choice if you affect your family and others... don't drink & drive, do wear your belts and helmets, and do be careful...

PM

[smart_racer]

The news was reporting, security gave the all clear to resume classes, because they thought the shooter had left the State,the head of the students is abit up-set, investigation time.

[rlboats2003]

The first thing each affliation of news men give the situation is a snappy title. Then find people who were around the area to tell what they saw. Did this event really rate 24 hour news coverage - with a body count at the top of ever half hour. No real facts as to why just a constant recurring theme of what mayhem did you see. I feel for the parents and the people who were there watching their friends and classmates disappear in front of them. It was a teribble day.

That is why you are right Pat - the next nut case will be going for 50 or more.
And the next nut case will get more than 15 minutes of Fame it will go on for hours, until the next hot story comes up. Did you notice how the daily body count of war dead even took a back seat to the new story, it became a one to two line comment?

There is news and then there is ratings, I wonder were the coverage of this story is falling. The next will be the funerals and interview with the parents and the usual questions do you beleive the school did every thing possible to ensure the safety of your son or daughter. Then we will have the how safe to you feel polls and a review by congress men at the state and federal local and soon all the presidental candidates will have this on their platform because the president made a statment on how upset he was at the tragedy that took place yesterday.

Well that is enough it was a sad day, a day we should learn from, and give thanks that we who remain are alive and those who are not, keep in our thoughts.

Rich

[keith S]

To me is the sad state that these people who do these kind of things are out there and nothing can be done until the tradjeic happens. Unfortunently, we will not know the real reasons for this as the killer did himself in so that he didn't have to account to anyone for his actions. This person planned this out with every intention to carry out this evil deed ( chained doors, cornering unarmed victems in rooms).
The other tragety is now everyone will play the "blame game". Gun controll activist, the over religious, societies politacl corrective police, government, entertainment, the media will feed on the quick "knee jerk reactions" to do something. Hopefully, all will sit back and analyze the events and educate others as what we need to watch for so that we can all try and prevent this from happening again. Unfortunaetly there will be more as some other wack job will see a goal to try and surpass for their own gratification. Sad day indeed. :( :mad:

[Shaun Hendricks]

It's always easier to pass new laws than to eliminate old ones... no matter how bad they are/were. This is why governments grow until they are incapable of governing, and then there will need to be some kind of revolution to create a new government.

This incident is beyond sad, and it's not a statement about weapons, this could have been done with a sword or a bottle of rat poison. It's a statement as to how incredibly hideous the interface is between schools, students, teachers, and parents.

In a society where it is increasingly never the fault of a person, and nobody has personal responsibility, these things will continue to grow into insane proportions. I wish I could say that was a prognostication. It's inevitable. No laws can stop it, but more laws can make it happen faster.

[Massey]

Well living here in VA I can say that the local media has been very respectful in the handling of this case. It has been the top story but it was not over done like CNN and the other national news media.

Blame IMHO can only rest in one person... The shooter. Period! He is the one that pulled the trigger, the gun didnt fire its own bullets the man holding it did. Gun control is not the issue, the police did what they throught was right based on the information that they had at the time.. THEY ARE HUMAN AND NOT WITHOUT FAULT. Durring the second attack the police had a force inside the school trying to locate and disarm the gunman, so when you hear about 2 cops hiding behind a tree, guns drawn not doing anything, they are not cowards, or chickens but heros doing their job. That job was to watch the area they covered and provide backup as needed. You cant have every man in uniform running into the school and storming the place to take this guy out. That may work in the movies but this is real life, and things need to be planned better than what HollyWood does.

I pray for the survivors and the victims families. Making new laws will not bring them back and it will not heal the wounds nor will it stop something like this from happening again. I dont know what can stop this, but I know what will help. We need to stop being selfish and start caring for and helping others. Sounds simple but it is one of the hardest things any of us will ever do. We need to do this not when there is a disaster or tragety but when we dont need to do it. I cant say for sure but this may have all been able to be avoided if some one had just asked this guy if he was OK and if they could do any thing to help. He would have prolly said no he was fine but that could have started him thinking that there was some one that cared enough to ask maybe things are not that bad, and instead of picking up a gun he called some one he knew that he could talk to. I dont know this to be then case nobody does but you never know either. We may never know what really happened here other than the obvious, that does not make any of this better nor bring back those who were lost or even the scars of the ones that watched their friends and classmates die, lets just hope we can find a way to keep this from happening again.

Ok enough ranting about this. To everyone that was involved my prayers and that of my family are with you.

Massey

[der kapitan]

Thanks Massey, well thought out and well said.

As I write, the media morons are feeding on the tragedy and "building on the story as things develop". And they're promising more later. So it appears that we will have to suffer through more of their disgusting and irreverant blathering---.

What more is there? Some howling psychopath slaughtered 32 students in their classrooms, end of story.

There are calls to fire the university president and the police chief because they did not have a crystal ball to predict things, but did what was reasonable at the time.

Someone suggests that they should have locked down the ENTIRE campus, the size of which rivals a small town. They would have needed the National Guard to do that.

This nightmare could have happened anywhere, at a stadium, state fair, or even at a Wal-Mart. The catchword now is heightened security, but where and at what cost?

[Shaun Hendricks]

I'm not so sure. I feel like the problem here is that teachers seem to have all the power with High School age kids and under, but college teachers don't seem to have the ability, or in some cases the desire,to say 'this student needs help'. They apparently knew this guy was in trouble mentally and rather than have him evaluated, they let him explode.

Columbine had 2 kids killing 9 people. Those kids planned it and everything but I think when the bullets started flying for real, they were scared. Their fire was innacurate and used for terror rather than effectiveness.

This guy had to have killed a thousand people in his head and relished the idea of doing it for real with a body count that he wracked up with a pistol. He had to have enjoyed it. He was a mass murderer in his head long before he ever bought the gun to do it with. The first two victims, to me, were just to see if he liked it for real, when he found out he did, there was no way to predict what he was doing next. No administrator or security reaction force could possibly have forseen this.

I'm with Massey, the killer was totally responsible, but to hear some say it, it's society, or lax gun laws, or bad schooling. The trick to stopping this stuff is identifying problems before they get to this point and handling them. To do that, we need to hold parents and teachers responsible for it and give them the power to do something about a potentially troubled child. Is the person just a wierdo who isn't a real threat or is the person a serious threat? Let experts decide, but at least find out!

In the end, you can't expect a cop to be ten feet from you at all times. You are responsible for your own safety. There were some heroes in this horrific event as well as victims. Those heroes took responsibility for others safety and I pray that they will get the recognition they deserve for their courage and compassion for others. My thoughts go out to all who are now grieving with this incident.

[Ghost 2501]

from what I heard on BBC radio 2 today, the student was a loner with a violent mind, didn't mix well.

what we don't want to do is treat every one who lives alone or like being alone as if they have a mental problem,

[Shaun Hendricks]

Well, I agree with that but I've been proven wrong. According to the latest, he actually WAS examined by an expert and found that he might be a danger to himself but nobody else. So, there went THAT line of reasoning. If the experts can't tell, then I say just let me carry a firearm and I'll be responsible for my own life.

I'm just getting PO'd about the whole thing, makes me ill when our mental health system fails so badly... this guy was poster boy for a loose warhead.

[TugboatTom]

Yes I heard. At school today I noticed the flags were at half mast. That must be why. I myself am a young college student (community college). So this does kind of effect me in a small way. But yeah the sad thing is those gun control activists will use this as another excuse to make gun control stronger. People like that will always find a way to illegally get their hands on a gun. And by banning guns you are just basically makeing law-abiding citizens sitting who have to defend themselves against people like that sitting ducks. The criminals will have guns and the law abiding citizens wont. But yeah its sad. They are not attacking the actual problem. Even with gun control this kind of stuff is still happening!

But yeah sorry. Gun control isnt the point right now. Sad thing that happend. Very tragic.

[Ghost 2501]

But yeah sorry. Gun control isnt the point right now. Sad thing that happend. Very tragic.

Gun control only controls legitimate owners not those who are going to go psycho or carry out criminal activities.

does a psycho-horror author like steven king pose a risk to society because of the content of his writings? after all the korean student at virginia tech wrote some horror stories according to the BBC ?

whats the difference between a person who has a violent mind and problems, therefore writes violently, or an Author with several horror books under his belt???? (that is what psychologists have to deal with).

is Quentin Tarantino a dangerous individual, after all he directed reservoir dogs! ??

[der kapitan]

From what has been uncovered about the shooter since the tragedy, one wonders how much more would people have needed to flag him as a potential psycho killer.

There are weird and mentally disturbed people everywhere, but how can one pick out the individual who will go off the deep end?

You can't just lock a guy up, or put him in a rubber room, simply because he's a loner, or writes gruesome stories.

I don't believe society can effectively monitor people like that, which is kind of scary.

[Shaun Hendricks]

The stalking of the two girls shows that he was willing to cross the line from 'self' to 'others' in his sociopathic behavior. That should have been enough.

In the end, it appears to come down to the left hand not talking to the right. The kid was in and out of the mental system a couple of times and the School Administration appears not to have been aware of it. There are rules about mentally unstable students not being allowed in dorms to prevent this kind of thing. Also, the state records about the mental instability didn't get registered into the 'do not allow to buy' gun database. So there is a bureaucratic snafu here... a big one.

[Kmot]

Also, the state records about the mental instability didn't get registered into the 'do not allow to buy' gun database. So there is a bureaucratic snafu here... a big one.

That is a big screw-up. Don't know about other states but in Calif if you have ever been admitted for mental conditions you are registered on a lifetime ban to own, purchase, or even possess a gun.

[der kapitan]

That is a big screw-up. Don't know about other states but in Calif if you have ever been admitted for mental conditions you are registered on a lifetime ban to own, purchase, or even possess a gun.
New York has similar laws, and to buy or own a handgun, you must first pay to have yourself investigated, and then take an approved training course before you can apply for a permit. :(

My wife is currently applying for one now. Tons of paperwork, then you wait, and wait, and wait---. :rolleyes:

That's if you're a taxpaying, law-abiding citizen. A criminal or outlaw simply buys one out of the trunk of some out-of-state peddler's car---. :eek:

[Ghost 2501]

...That's if you're a taxpaying, law-abiding citizen. A criminal or outlaw simply buys one out of the trunk of some out-of-state peddler's car---. :eek:

exactly, thats the thing, regulation only regulates the law abiders

[Boatfox]

Not to gloom and doom....but should we be worried about hand guns? Say an individual can't buy a gun...but still has his/her heart set on causing trouble. Pretty much anyone can find info and materials to make a bomb. Next thing you know it isn't the bad luck of running into a psycho who has finally cracked...it's going to work or a building that the psycho has decided he/she needs to destroy.
I'm not saying we need another government group to watch after us....but darn it the ones that are here need to earn their keep. All this after the fact info about a looney who buys a gun 2 months before a rampage is terrible. We all know no one is going to be accountable either.
Hm,mmm...Grrr grumble gruff...darn society..... :mad: Whats a person to do to keep their family safe??

[der kapitan]

What to do? Keep a few guns around the house, and teach your family to use them safely. I've always had rifles and shotguns in the house, and more recently, a few handguns.

My wife didn't like them around but has changed her mind about them in the last several years, and is even learning to shoot.

[tugboater]

Just so you all know. The news stations here say that we should all have our Porch Lights on all night, as well as flags at half mast throughout the night. Tomorrow you should continue with flags at half mast and wear the VT "Hokies" colors if you can.

Ryan

[Kmot]

I don't like to get political on the forums. But for those who disagree with the 2nd Amendment, I submit these images. Please copy them, and post them in your windows at home. Be sure to let the criminals know you do not believe in guns for self defense, or protecting your family; and that they will have free reign to do as they wish with you and your loved ones:

http://www.fulton-armory.com/gunfree.gif

http://www.the-eggman.com/graphics/gun_free.gif

[Boatfox]

^LOL...Kmot :p
I got our gun after the hurricanes wiped New Orleans. People sometimes just lose their minds and seem not to respect each other in certain situations. When the time comes I'm prepared for what I have to do. To me it's just another tool in the box. Wife still doesn't like guns, but promised me she would go at least once to a range and fire it. I think I'll warm her up on a 9MM before I cut her loose with the 45. :eek:

[der kapitan]

^LOL...Kmot :p
I got our gun after the hurricanes wiped New Orleans. People sometimes just lose their minds and seem not to respect each other in certain situations. When the time comes I'm prepared for what I have to do. To me it's just another tool in the box. Wife still doesn't like guns, but promised me she would go at least once to a range and fire it. I think I'll warm her up on a 9MM before I cut her loose with the 45. :eek:

Hee hee, GO Boatfox! :D

Just remember to be extra nice to her from here on in---. :)

I like Kmot's signs, they kinda leave a carte blanche for criminals, don't they?

Here are a few more signs that you can post:

NEVER MIND THE DOG, BEWARE OF OWNER!

and,

THIS HOUSE GUARDED BY SHOTGUN THREE DAYS A WEEK. GUESS WHICH DAYS?

[Boatfox]

What to do? Keep a few guns around the house, and teach your family to use them safely. .........
Still...being in the wrong place at the wrong time by chance will still leave you vunerable. How do you lock up the kooks without becoming George Orwells 1984?? I'd love to say only responsible people should have guns, and that all crimals turn yourselves in right now....but the utopia doesn't exist and I refuse to live in total fear of society. I'll have to trust in fates final outcome for me.....and live today like there won't be a tomorrow.


DerKapitan....don't forget the signs that state...
"The dog can make it to the fence in 3 seconds.....Can You?"
"Trespassers will be shot. Survivors will be shot again" :p ;)

[Kmot]

I used to have a sign on my front window, (until we had our windows replaced) that read:

"This house guarded by one big bad sonofabitch" :D

[Shaun Hendricks]

I own several firearms. None of them 'concealable', I suppose my Desert Eagle is as close as it comes.

I live in gun-phobic California. I had a boss freak out when I flipped out a knife and opened a box. I feel we are building a society that will ultimately be nothing but predators or victims. Fear is what drives both. I refuse to live in fear, I refuse to be a victim. I suppose to the fearful, am I now a predator by those admissions? Perhaps, but I'll just remind them that I'm posting this on a toy boat forum... :D

[der kapitan]

I refuse to live in fear, I refuse to be a victim. :D
Throughout history, there have always been lunatics in every society, and there will continue to be, regardless of laws or other safeguards.

What happened in Virginia was a tragic incident, but it does not indicate a trend toward such things.

However, if you read what they have put in the media, you would tend to believe that our society is flawed.

They hint that we should all hide behind locked doors, pass more legislation, heighten security at campuses, and put more barricades up to limit activity in our daily lives.

For an example, just try traveling by air these days---.

I'm with Shaun, in that I refuse to live in fear, be it of homicidal maniacs, Islamic terrorists, or anything else that may be hiding in the woodwork, or under a rock.

[green-boat]

I'm with shaun in that I do have several un-concealable firearms. I also refuse to live in fear of all the lunatics out there.
I used to have a sign on my front window, (until we had our windows replaced) that read:

"This house guarded by one big bad sonofabitch" :D
LOL, I have a sign in my front window that reads "Warning, protected by a guy with a cannon"

[der kapitan]

I'm with shaun in that I do have several un-concealable firearms. I also refuse to live in fear of all the lunatics out there.

LOL, I have a sign in my front window that reads "Warning, protected by a guy with a cannon"
I have no sign. I just let them guess---. :cool:

[Ghost 2501]

I own several firearms. None of them 'concealable', I suppose my Desert Eagle is as close as it comes.

I live in gun-phobic California. I had a boss freak out when I flipped out a knife and opened a box. I feel we are building a society that will ultimately be nothing but predators or victims. Fear is what drives both. I refuse to live in fear, I refuse to be a victim. I suppose to the fearful, am I now a predator by those admissions? Perhaps, but I'll just remind them that I'm posting this on a toy boat forum... :D

[i] how else do you open a box? using knives to open them up is par de course everywhere else!

[Ghost 2501]

Throughout history, there have always been lunatics in every society, and there will continue to be, regardless of laws or other safeguards.

What happened in Virginia was a tragic incident, but it does not indicate a trend toward such things.

However, if you read what they have put in the media, you would tend to believe that our society is flawed.

They hint that we should all hide behind locked doors, pass more legislation, heighten security at campuses, and put more barricades up to limit activity in our daily lives.

For an example, just try traveling by air these days---.

I'm with Shaun, in that I refuse to live in fear, be it of homicidal maniacs, Islamic terrorists, or anything else that may be hiding in the woodwork, or under a rock.

Despite all the legislation regarding air travel post 9/11 I had very little problems in travelling. My cellphone caused a stirr as it had been recently repaird and the glue on the screen posed a few questions outbound at Manchester, I had to take the back of it as the x-ray machine could not make anything out other than the battery. battery shown to said airport security official, and promptly told "have a nice flight sir".

Boarding the plane i was searched by security again but that made me feel secure as airport staff were doing their job. Landing in Atlanta, where I was expecting to be delayed because of security being so tight, I made it through in 60 mins!

Whilst in the states for a week I heard a single gunshot break the quiet night. jusy what is all the hype about?

[LtDoc]

Ghost',
All the 'hype' is about the media. The 'news' doesn't report news anymore without a ton of sensationalism, misconceptions, opinions, and other 'stuff'. If 'they' see a dog take a 'wizz' on a tree, get ready! There'll be so much "Gee, ain't it awful!" that all the 'tree huggers' are going to be outraged! The tree was made to feel insecure and humiliated! "Lets do something about it!" ... Unfortunately, that's not as much exaggeration as you might think. If there's any possible way to misconstrue something, guess what happens...
- 'Doc

[Ghost 2501]

media sensationalism, all down to a ratings war i bet

[Shaun Hendricks]

[i] how else do you open a box? using knives to open them up is par de course everywhere else!

The problem is that the 'knife' was a SOG Pentagon Elite with the Arc-Lock mechanism. I love the ARC-Lock, I can flip the blade out as fast as a switchblade and retract it just as fast. I did this (with a max legal length blade) and had that box open so fast and the knife back in my pocket that I thought my boss was gonna die of a heart attack. He was nearly apoplectic.

I looked at him and said "What? You asked if someone could open the box..." I could see the permutations of 'Man, Shaun could've knifed me in a second and nobody would've seen it!' running through his brain. Problem is that there is this persistant rumor of me being a nice guy. I keep trying to prove the opposite but nobody believes me.

My friend that I work with was nearly dying of laughter at the whole show.