Toledo Spy Report

[patmat2350]

Seen at the Toledo RC show- prototype "Lancer" radio from Polk's Hobbies- a 6-to-8 channel, 2.4 Gig pistol!
OK, it's mostly news to me, apparently they've shown it before... the web site, www.polkshobby.com (http://www.polkshobby.com), says available "late 2006", and at the show, the word is "later this year, maybe summer".

Polk's is known for their "Tracker" radio, which has its fans... but I think their synthesised FM channel seeking tech is trumped by the 2.4 GHz protocol. So here we have a new 2.4 gig unit- good. Even better- I like pistols better than sticks for driving a boat, but hate being limited to two or three channels. The Lancer comes with six PROPORTIONAL channels- throttle, steering, and four knobs; and it can be expanded by two more. And it's designed to accept the MCD Switch 8/16.
A few other features:
- 1500 mAh NiMH (why go with those wimpy 600 mAH batteries that the other guys use?);
- Clicker-clutch on the steering wheel- you can't break the wheel off if you're an excitable turn-taker;
- Computer innards allow for a bag-load of mixes and EPAs;
- 100 model memory
- Swappable head (LH vs. RH)
- Price competitive with a DX3


Should be interesting, I hope they succeed in bringing it to market!

PM

[patmat2350]

And boats too!
Oh, and they have some wingy things there too...

PM

[H.Lauer]

Pat,

Thanks for sharing.Nice pictures and helpful info.I too prefer pistol grips for boats! Harry

[Ghost 2501]

nice pics, I do like the B17 and coast guard boat :)

[patmat2350]

And a few of the racer entries.


PM

[patmat2350]

The Legend display at MACK.... drool...

pm

[OhioMike]

Hey Pat...whats the loa of the Lyman? Thanks.

[patmat2350]

O'Mike-
I'm not sure- he doesn't list it anywhere, or even the scale... but the protototype is 25', and he's building the model in either 1:10 or 1:12.

Find some info at http://www.legendmodelboats.com/index.htm
Notable: Rich is taking in all the manufacturing, which was done before by Dumas.

PM

[Kmot]

Thanks for the photos. Most other sites concentrate on airplanes. Which is fine with me since I do those "wingy things" too. But it is also nice to see close-ups of the boats. The Lyman looks very nice. Reading the legal update, it will be interesting to see what else goes into production. The cabin cruiser on the cover of the Lyman book looks very interesting.

[Ghost 2501]

Pat, regarding the transmitters, I prefer sticks, with the right set up makes one handed operation easier

[Aerominded]

I have hobby budget specifically set aside for the Lyman! Looking forward to its release! :)

Nice boats on display there! :)

[buzzltyr]

Pat, thanks for taking the time to take and post the pics. Very nice boats, not to mention the "wingy-thingy's". :D Particularly liked the reference to the "round and round wingy thingy". ROFLMA on that one....

Mark

[patmat2350]

More pix!
Jack Kipfer returned to the show for the umpteenth time, and you know he has another winner here!

Pat M

[Kmot]

Kipfer is some sort of wizard..........

[ThrustTugKeith]

Hey Pat....WHAT State is ON???????

Sorry, I HAD to put that in there....I'm sick and tired of seeing that. :mad:

The "correct" abbreviation for Ontario.....is ONT. NOT.... "ON".

Ya, ya, I KNOW "thats what the government says" ......BUT....as a true "Flag Waver"....I always defy the system by putting "ONT"

[patmat2350]

Kipfer is some sort of wizard..........

Roger that... he built it in 3 months!
The rear hatch pops up and slides back in aluminum tracks. The whole cockpit comes out as one unit. About 10 coats of hand rubbed clear stuff...

PM

[CG Bob]

Anyone want to know who won? Here's the list.

Military Scale
1st - Army Hovercraft by Malcolm Han, Unionville, ONT
2nd - USS BOSTON (CAG 1) byJerry Kirk
3rd - USCGC TAMAROA (WMEC 166) by me

Pleasure Boat
1st - JOSH n ME by Jack Kipfer (15 years in a row)
2nd - MISS CANADA III by Dereck Osborn of Angus, ONT
3rd - VALDIVA by Pat Matthews

Working Vessel
1st - Riverboat OHIO VALLEY by Jophn Fryant, Maineville, OH
2nd -Tug CASCADE by Karl Kuttruff ogf Sterling Heights, MI
3rd -Steam Ferry EARL SIGURD by John Hennebry of Kitchener, ONT

Competition Boat
1st - Miss Pride of Pay n Pack by John Stollfuss of Dearborn, MI
2nd - Double Cat river raft by John Gill of Hopatcong, NJ
3rd - MILLER AMERICAN Hydro by Greg Hahn of Sidney, IL

Jack Kipfer's boat also won 2nd place in Best Finish.

I bought one of the Rabid Models flying boats profile foam airplanes. The model on display had a full foam lower hull. The guys in the booth said they will be offering a vac form lower hull and wingtip floats later in the year. It has some potential at regattas. First as part of a seaplane anchorage. Second, possible use in the "Salvage Event" as the item to be rescued. Put a small cotter pin or other metal eye in the nose for the weighted towline; you can then motor it out to the same location each time to be "rescued".

[Ron Olson]

Wanna bet that Jack Kipfer takes hime yet another trophy? Maybe Best in Show again?
I saw the Boston without the bridge on, that thing has more wiring in there than under the hood of my car!
The Miss Bardahl belongs to Mike "Grimracer" Zaborowski.
I met Derek Osborne briefly there but talked to a kid that rode to the show with him who also had an entry there, Taylor Shaw who had the Gentlemen's Racer.

[patmat2350]

OK OK, just a few more of Jack's Josh-n-Me.

PM

p.s., Bob- you home already?

p.p.s: That pattern on the cockpit floor? 1394 pin heads representing chromed studs.

[der kapitan]

Hey Pat....WHAT State is ON???????

Sorry, I HAD to put that in there....I'm sick and tired of seeing that. :mad:

The "correct" abbreviation for Ontario.....is ONT. NOT.... "ON".

Ya, ya, I KNOW "thats what the government says" ......BUT....as a true "Flag Waver"....I always defy the system by putting "ONT"
Keith, the proper way to abbreviate it is "Ont, eh?" :D

[der kapitan]

Just got in from Toledo, and my ears are still ringing---. The roar of the greasepaint, the smell of the crowd---. Nothing like a good tradeshow to get one's blood pumping. :)

And made all the better by good fellowship, like Pat, CG Bob, etc., and a few guys from the forum to boot, Hi Darrel, hi Steve---. :D

Pat's done a really good overview of the show, and I can't think of anything he overlooked. ;)

Boats rule! :cool:

[Aerominded]

Boats rule indeed, Kapitan! :)

[Umi_Ryuzuki]

Great pics, Thanks Pat.
That is some beautiful work you have shown us here.

Congratulation CGbob on your award. I can only hope to do so well in a "scale" judging.
:cool:
.
.
.
aluminium hatch rails, cup holders and folding seatback trays indeed...

[Kmot]

Yes, indeed. Congratulations to both Pat and Bob, and any other forum members we don't know about! :D

[der kapitan]

Yes, indeed. Congratulations to both Pat and Bob, and any other forum members we don't know about! :D
Regarding any other anonymous forum members at the show, I only wish that they'd identified themselves, as it would have been nice to meet them. :)

As it were, the two that I did get to meet were a bit stunned that the guy in the Microglass booth was Der Kapitan---. ;)

CG Bob was hovering around the booths that had boat stuff, and Pat was having a great time photographing just about everything of interest. :D

The downside of the show is that after you receive your award, you have to tote your model out of the hall. And pat had his Valdivia---. :eek:

[patmat2350]

You wanna know about the gusty wind at the door and nearly getting smothered by a loose topsail?

pm

[CG Bob]

Pat - left the Seagate Center around 4:15 and got into home port around 6 PM. Tied up at the home pier about 7PM after stopping for chow. Everything stowed at home by 7:30 PM.

The boat tables were pretty full compared to the flying machine side of the show. Lots of empty space on some of the aircraft tables.

Before anyone says that TAMAROA should of won 1st, you weren't one of the judges. I did talk to one of the judges, and I've also judged models at Toledo in the past - so I know what to expect. The hovercraft and BOSTON were complete scracthbuilds, and I used a Scale Shipyard hull for the TAM. Scratchbuilt models will usually place higher than kits or commercially produced fiberglass hulls. I've done pretty well with the TAMAROA model since 1999 in static judging events: 3 Best of Show awards; 2 People's Choice; 1 Captain's Choice; 9 First Place; 3 Second Place; and 3 Third Place (3 Thirds - does that make 1 1st?). The model has been entered in contests in Florida, Ohio, York PA, St. Louis, Indiana, and Michigan.

Some pictures of boats that didn't win any awards.

[patmat2350]

One thing I'd like to see at ALL shows- more transparency in the judging standards! Seems like it's usually kept secret to protect anonymity and decisions of the judges. But entrants should know what to expect coming in... in most boat events, as Bob says, a big proportion of points is given for scratch building over kits and even semi kits... I'm not sure if a kit-oriented group, like IPMS, gives much of a hoot over scratch?

SSMA gives points for documentation (plans/photos of the prototype, description of your construction, etc.) whereas none are specified at Toledo. The judge may not be able to compare item for item between your model and the plans, but prove that you did your research!

Both SSMA and Toledo give points for R/C functions... so a beautiful model with just speed & steering will lose points to a mediocre model loaded with lights and spinning radars and smoke etc.

One bit of advice for anyone entering an R/C model anywhere- help the judges by including a sign at the model, or a title page in your documentation book, which points out all the features which may not be obvious, including:
- Percentage of scratch build;
- R/C functions
- Novel features
- Degree-of-difficulty pointers ("planks secured with wood treenails instead of CA"...)

Areas that you can expect to be included in judging (though no guarantee!):

- Adherence to the prototype (a beautiful generic never-was tug will lose to a model of a documented real vessel);
- Amount of detail- is everything on the real ship represented on the model?
- Quality of detail- Do the guns LOOK like they were carved from balsa, or do they look like perfectly shrunken original parts?
- Quality and authenticity of finish- runs, sloppy masking, odd glossiness, glue puddles, convincing weathering- are all factors.
- RC functions
- Wow factor- many events allow for discretionary bonus points, which might be influenced by anything from technical sophistication to "presentation" (like a unique boat stand).


PM

[Kmot]

CG Bob: 21 trophys for the Tamaroa? Let's see your trophy case! :)

[keith S]

Great photos guys! Thanks for posting for those of us that are unable to go back there ( west coasties) to enjoy this show. :mad: :p
Pat, have to agree with the judging standards. It is a different world compared to IPMS ( alhtough a lot of whats done there is kitted). The folks up north in Canada used a sliding scale for the local judges to help "ballence" the playing feild. Scratch built will hav the ability to score higher due the amount of effort. But you still need to build a pretty good model to beat a kit boat. I have seen kit boats that came out looking like a bad scratch built and vice versa. I have done well with the "modified" catagories by building on prefabed hulls. Still need to put a lot of work into a subject to winbig ( if that is all you are going for ). Best advice I can ever give someone entereing any contest is documentation on the model/prototype. Realality is that you can not expect the judges to know everything about evrey vessel ever consructed real or ficticious. Documentation will at least give them an idea on how you came to the finished results on the prodject you are presenting.

[der kapitan]

One thing I'd like to see at ALL shows- more transparency in the judging standards! Seems like it's usually kept secret to protect anonymity and decisions of the judges. But entrants should know what to expect coming in... in most boat events, as Bob says, a big proportion of points is given for scratch building over kits and even semi kits...

SSMA gives points for documentation (plans/photos of the prototype, description of your construction, etc.) whereas none are specified at Toledo. The judge may not be able to compare item for item between your model and the plans, but prove that you did your research!

Both SSMA and Toledo give points for R/C functions... so a beautiful model with just speed & steering will lose points to a mediocre model loaded with lights and spinning radars and smoke etc.

PM

Pat, Keith, to do judging at ANY event is a bit strenuous, and it helps to have a knowlegeable team on the job. Even with that asset, it can get more than a bit dicey, and sometimes resorts to virtually a coin-toss between models.

Some of the models at Toledo this year were so good, it nearly came to that---.

The general public does not have a need to know on the judge's identity, or to what sways his decisions. If a model is really good, it's going to show rather prominently by the workmanship displayed. And bigger is not necessarily better by virtue of sheer size. I was once approached by an irate modeler who demanded to know why his seven-foot model was bested by a two-foot one. He did not like the answer---.

[Ron Olson]

The other problem that I've seen is that I've wondered (and others also) if some boats should maybe been placed in another category than what they were entered in. For instance, a scale boat can also be a competition boat. Last year, Jack Kipfer's boat could have fallen into either category. Sometimes it's up to the owner to decide where it should go.

[CG Bob]

CG Bob: 21 trophys for the Tamaroa? Let's see your trophy case! :)That's just for static judging. She's earned her keep on the water events as well: 1st Place - 4 awards 2nd Place - 4 Awards; 3rd place - 2 awards. The water events are: Most Realistic Operation (some clubs call it "Stand-off Scale"); Bollard Pull; Barge Towing; and Barge Salvage. We've just missed winning in Precision Steering and Predicted Log by a few points.

I was once approached by an irate modeler who demanded to know why his seven-foot model was bested by a two-foot one. He did not like the answer---. That modeler probably deserved the answer he giot as well as rge tone it was given to him. I've found the best approach for questioning a judge - after the awards are given - is to ask how I can improve my model. At Toledo, I asked if the other winning models were complete scracth builds, and I was told they were. The answer was similar to the one Pat provided. Next time I'll probably scratch build the hull, build my own ESC, mold & cast the prop, etc.

[Kmot]

Oh sorry, 31 Trophies!! :D :D :D

[keith S]

I don't known about others, but the on the water awards are the ones that I am more proud of. The elements and water are equall oppertunity complicators to all that try and navigate a course! Good job ther CG Bob on both ends of the winning spektrum.

[der kapitan]

The other problem that I've seen is that I've wondered (and others also) if some boats should maybe been placed in another category than what they were entered in. For instance, a scale boat can also be a competition boat. Last year, Jack Kipfer's boat could have fallen into either category. Sometimes it's up to the owner to decide where it should go.

Yes Ron, I noticed that too, especially on Bryant Thompson's "racing" sidewheeler, entered in the competition boat category---. :confused:

Ah well, a bit of levity on Bryant's part? :D

[papower]

Judging at contests is always a "concern". I have had my turn at thier hands also. About 10 years ago I built a 1932 ford car model for one of the NNL's. It won its class. The model was brought to a big show the next week on the east coast and entered in the street rod class. Clearly was the winner of the class. It got honorable mention. A judge later came up to me and said the model was going to be disqualified and they figured to give me the honorable mention out of the kindness of thier hearts. I asked why? The class was street rods. My rear tires had no tread. So therefore it was not "street legal"! How was that for some crazy rules! No where could they produce in writing that the street rod class had to have treaded tires. Anyway, I told the judge that the guy did a burnout in the parking lot before he entered the car in the contest! He just gave me a look that was priceless. I have not entered a model contest since. The NNL plaque sits next to the ford and I smile every time I look at it.
Bruce

[keith S]

The only true award to get is the one of satisfaction you have with the model. :) All others are just "sugar candy" that makes you happy for a short time. :eek: :D The finished build last a lot longer!
I agree with you there Der kaptain, that jugding is hard work and tough as I have done my share as well. There will always be someone that is not happy it seems as they think they have the best model in "their eyes". Best senerio when there is a modelers choice award is everyone should be voting for themselves as theirs is the best. :rolleyes: :D Shows like this one should really be brining out the best of the best and I beleive they did by the photos shown. Congrats to all that won and even those who showed their models!!!!!!

[patmat2350]

That's what the St. Louis Admirals do at their regatta, only across the board.
All entrants in a class vote on the models in that class... even if your first vote is suspect, all the 2nd and 3rd votes usually pick out deserving winners!

PM

[CG Bob]

Another great thing about this site - we're faster at posting the pictures than the Weak Signals (http://www.toledoshow.com/index.cfm?p=gallery) are.

[der kapitan]

Another great thing about this site - we're faster at posting the pictures than the Weak Signals (http://www.toledoshow.com/index.cfm?p=gallery) are.
Awww Bob, they'll get around to it eventually. :rolleyes:

Maybe around July or so---. :D

[Ghost 2501]

lol

get in with copyright before they post their pics, lol

[Ron Olson]

They are a little slow in getting the results and pix online so it might be Wednesday at the soonest I'd guees before their site is updated.

I got some bad news this moring that 2 R/C boaters were driving up to the show and another car blew through a stop light hitting thier car. The car was spun around twice and the front end ripped off. The driver wasn't badly hurt but the female apssenger has broken ribs that resulted in spleen damage plus swelling of the brain. She has already undergone 2 surgeries. Oddly enough, she is the R/C boat nut, not her boyfriend. I was kind of expecting ot see them at the show but last week she didn't say either way if they were coming up or not.

[Shaun Hendricks]

I didn't do judging on models but did something as subjective, I was in charge of the judges and judging on music videos, anime music videos to be precise, for the largest North American Anime convention.

Now, we shared a bit of grief and commisseration with our model judges (talk about modelers, these guys scratch build resin models of just about anything anime related).

I was the one under the gun of 3,000+ ravenous fans when we displayed the videos and I gave out the results (and prizes). That's a lot of stress. I had dozens of people coming up to me after the contest and complaining, whining, griping... etc. I was happy for the years where there were clear winners.

After I left the convention, the contest started to get watered down with honorable mentions, made up on the spot awards, etc. This in a vain attempt to appease the masses.

My point is, you cannot please everyone, even with 'awards'. It's becoming like the public school system where every child gets an 'A' because they don't want to upset anyone.

Performance is performance. While a full scratch built may hold more weight than a kit or hull start, that is where categories come in: scratch builts should compete against scratch builts. Kits against kits. Semis against semis. Contest design and award structure are just as important as getting the judging rules right.

I can feel the pain of judges everywhere but the only time I ever felt 'bad' was when the contest design didn't allow for an effort to get proper recognition. In CG Bob's case, I don't think it's fair for a contest that pits semi-kits against scratch builts to dock points for it being a semi-kit. The boat went in with a handicap to start- that's not fair to anyone. I'm not saying CG Bob should've won, I'm just saying the contest had problems to start off with. I think it speaks volumes that he got 3rd with a pre-made hull start when the judges were docking points (even mentally) for anything pre-made...

Way to go Bob!

[Ghost 2501]

They are a little slow in getting the results and pix online so it might be Wednesday at the soonest I'd guees before their site is updated.

I got some bad news this moring that 2 R/C boaters were driving up to the show and another car blew through a stop light hitting thier car. The car was spun around twice and the front end ripped off. The driver wasn't badly hurt but the female apssenger has broken ribs that resulted in spleen damage plus swelling of the brain. She has already undergone 2 surgeries. Oddly enough, she is the R/C boat nut, not her boyfriend. I was kind of expecting ot see them at the show but last week she didn't say either way if they were coming up or not.

hope she recovers Ron, sad news to hear though, hope the driver who jumped the lights gets RAILROADED in the courts

[Kmot]

Getting creamed on the way to a hobby show is just not fair! I hope she recovers soon and well. :(

[Shaun Hendricks]

That's awful news... I was posting when it was put up so I guess I missed it. Now my post looks a little pathetic.

I hope she recovers fully, my thoughts are with her.