Pheonix saphire-90

[ptremb]

I've tried almost all the heli models and find this thing to be almost stupid stable but very responsive and extremely helpful in that respect.Is this how it realy flys?or is it just me.I haven't made any change to the parameters other than changing the sim speed slightly faster thinking it responded a little slow.

[Ade]

Spacey is probably your man for this. I shall ask him to chime in.

Ade

[ptremb]

I'm just looking to find out if all 90 size heli's fly like this.Trying any of the small elect. I look like a first timer,can't even get a stable hover going even though I can w/ my hdx.
Don't get me wrong I'm not complaining as it's teaching me to react before the fact,and I know that the larger the heli the more stable.I'm just currious.

[bilboa]

Trying any of the small elect. I look like a first timer,can't even get a stable hover going even though I can w/ my hdx.
I don't know about the .90 size helis, but I know the Phoenix Spark is considerably harder to hover than my Blade CP Pro.

Actually I just found that one of the transmitter pots seems to be going bad on my BCPP transmitter, so the servos twitch when I move the cyclic stick. This makes my BCPP feel more twitchy and unstable, which I realized makes it feel more like flying the Phoenix Spark. Maybe whoever setup the Phoenix Spark was using a micro heli with a bad transmitter as the source heli? :)

[Ade]

the saphire is an F3C heli i have never flown any of the top F3C birds so cant really comment. Spacey is an F3C man.

however... i can comment on the synergy the model belongs to bob johnston who also created the varient. I have had the pleasure of flying his synergy and its truely incredible! I think the real thing is very slightly sharper on the collective but other than that he got it spot on.

Ade

[ptremb]

I love that model and have since been using it exclusively.very stalbe in a hover but you tell it to go and it goes.than you want to stop it 's like you just slam on the brakes.with the 30 it feels very under powered,especialy inverted,the 50 has more power but doesn't seem to have the crisp feel that the 90 has.I've gained alot from this,still loose orentation on occasion ,but this model realy makes me rember why I enjoy this hobbie.when I was younger I used to play with nitro engines and the sound brings back the smell.
I wonder what the W.A.F. would be to a massive new heli hanging on the wall :D

[key]

I noticed the same thing about the .30 in Pheonix.. I can't imagine all .30s feel that underpowered - seems like I almost have to fight the thing to get it to go inverted and get stable.

Ade - is the Raptor .30 in Pheonix close to what it's like for real? The .50 is MUCH MUCH better.

[CyCrow]

I noticed the same thing about the .30 in Pheonix.. I can't imagine all .30s feel that underpowered - seems like I almost have to fight the thing to get it to go inverted and get stable.

Ade - is the Raptor .30 in Pheonix close to what it's like for real? The .50 is MUCH MUCH better.

Remember it's set up as a "sport" model, not 3D. Negative pitch is limited, and cyclic sensitivity is reduced. You can edit pitch values easily to get full negative pitch for inverted flying.

// CyCrow

[Ade]

also headspeed is lower so it wont be in the power band. but yes 30s are not very powerful thats why everybody doing aerobatics flies 50s.

Ade

[spacey]

Lo everyone,

Sorry I don't have an internet connection at home but hopefully that'll change soon if internet costs keeps droppping this side like their doing now.

Regarding the Saphire.
I've spent the last 4 odd months getting it tweaked so I can't recall the exact changes that well anymore but I have changed it a fair amount to get it as close as possible to the feel and handling of my JR Sylphides with the Super Gracy bodies on. I have gotten it pretty close but it also took some tweaking on my transmitter's part. I fly all the 3D models on Phoenix like the Knight on my idle up 2 mode though with all the dual rates on high so it's no big deal. The only real changes in the transmitter setups come through for normal which is my low~no wind hovering mode where I run a lower headspeed and a flatter pitch curve and of course then my idle up 1 which I run a slightly higher headspeed with a steeper pitch curve with more negative. I also use idle up 1 for transitions into and from forward flight. I've disabled the governer on the heli obviously to tweak my headspeeds in the hovering modes, hopefully Phoenix will soon have a function to enable and disable the governer from the tx via the gyro functions or something to keep it simple.

The heli otherwise feel pretty good out of the box for an F3C heli. I found it to be a little overpowered out of the box compared to my helis and the autos were too easy, for this I've made the heli heavier and shortened the blades somewhat. I've also reduced the horses as far as I recall but I've also played with the drag settings versus power to get the vertical climb outs in fast forward flight close to what my helis do now. The hovering stability was pretty good out of the box and even though I've played with that alot I think I've gone back to pretty much what it was at around 99.8%. I'll have to confirm the numbers I'm afraid if someone is interested.

Is it possible to share models easily over the net? Maybe I can mail the model I've tweaked to Ade so he can make it available for everyone to give a bash? I'll share setups too if folks are interested.

To sum up though and to answer the original question. The Saphire was pretty good out the box yes, the changes I've made were very minor to just make it feel like one of my helis. I think the Saphire out the box would resemble a perfect 10 F3C heli flying at sea level. I fly at 4600 feet ASL so I experience quite a considerable power and lift loss up here. Do all .90's fly like that? Definitely not.

Cheers
Spacey

[key]

Remember it's set up as a "sport" model, not 3D. Negative pitch is limited, and cyclic sensitivity is reduced. You can edit pitch values easily to get full negative pitch for inverted flying.

Funny you mention that because that's exactly what I did, and now I have a .30 stored that flies better, but still not as good as the .50.

Thanks for the info!

[bilboa]

Is it possible to share models easily over the net? Maybe I can mail the model I've tweaked to Ade so he can make it available for everyone to give a bash? I'll share setups too if folks are interested.


I believe each of the model variants that you create in Phoenix is associated with a file whose name ends in .fly, stored in various subdirectories under (assuming Phoenix is installed in the default location)

C:\Program Files\PhoenixRC\variants

Helicopter variants are under

C:\Program Files\PhoenixRC\variants\helicopters

So if you send the .fly file associated with your variant to someone, they can just copy it into the right location in their copy of phoenix, and the model will show up.

[spacey]

If that is the case then it would be fairly easy I guess. I'll look in the folders tonight what is there.

Cheers
Spacey

[devindh]

Hi Spacey,... how about posting your variant (*.fly) file related to Phoenixrc Sapphire 90 heli?? can you share it?? pls.

Thanks.

PS: Just need to have "true" F3C setting from you, cause i allready put my gracy paint to this heli.

[spacey]

devindh: Sorry I kinda forgot about this thread already. I honestly haven't touched the Saphire in Phoenix since the last F3C World champs. After I got back from Poland I really took a long break untill about now just getting the helis ready for the new season and setup for Schedule C, fixing a few things I was having serious trouble with at the worlds and and. I did give the Saphire a quick whirl after the latest update however and didn't like what I saw, didn't touch on editing it however. I've been toying with the idea of making a Sylphide for Phoenix for a while now but it looks like alot of work, Ade also suggested the idea a couple of times now...dunno maybe I'll still consider it.

[devindh]

Thanks for reply Spacey.

I hope you got better setting for use in Phoenix and for real in next session too :).

Happy flying.

[spacey]

Let's hope yes. :) I'll get around to messing with the sim again soon. Let me see if I can get the sim to fly anything like my helis do now.