ECO8 Re-Build w/bling

[Spidious]

Well you guys talked me into it.

I just bought a used Futaba 6XHS FM/PCM with a FP-R148DF 8 channel receiver (http://advantagehobby.com/product.php?productid=42922&cat=588&page=1) and a couple of 120 degree brackets.
And thrown into the deal also a 4 channel receiver and channel 42 crystal (http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXCRK1&P=0) Electrifly from Great Planes.

So if anybody would like to make a offer on the 4 channel receiver (channel 42), When I get it I would be willing to sell it..


I went thru the owners manual and it looks like a nightmare to me to program it. If anybody out there could help by walking me thru it I would appreciate it.

What would you ECO8 owners suggest to put into the different settings ?

How do you start the blade up ? Before it was by slowly moving the left stick up. But now it will be blade pitch control ?

[Impact]

I would expect that you are going to switch to CCPM, if so then you need a 6 or more channel reciver. I use the same trans. with my eco and my only complaint would be the throttle curve only has one point to adjust but if you use a speed control with a gov. then who cares.

How do you start the blade up ? Before it was by slowly moving the left stick up. But now it will be blade pitch control ?
Blade pitch and throttle will be blended together just like the mech. mixer but now it will be done in the radio, pretty much everything will be exactly the same........Impact

[Impact]

So if anybody would like to make a offer on the 4 channel receiver (channel 42), When I get it I would be willing to sell it..
Whoops, my bad..

I went thru the owners manual and it looks like a nightmare to me to program it. If anybody out there could help by walking me thru it I would appreciate it.
It's not bad setting it up, Select the right swash setting, then get all the servo's going the proper direction, then set how far they go and your ready to for some test hovers......Impact

[Spidious]

So then what is idle hold switch for ?

And what is throttle hold switch for ?

[Impact]

So then what is idle hold switch for ?
That will hold the throttle up when the throttle stick is less than 50%. In normal mode you will have a throttle curve that is linear like this, 1/4 stick = 25%throttle 1/2 stick= 50% 3/4 stick = 75% full stick = 100%

When you flip the switch into "Idle up" you will now have a throttle curve that looks more like a V, example
0 stick = 100% throttle 1/4 stick = 75% 1/2 stick = 60% 3/4 stick = 75% full stick = 100%

And what is throttle hold switch for ?
That will shut off your motor and allow you to do autorotations. When that switch is on the left stick will only control the collective.........Impact

[Spidious]

So idle up would be for like 3D, so that when you are upside down you would have full head speed . Or if you wanted to go down very fast if upright.

Thanks for the heads up. I am very new at this computer radio stuff...amazes me at just what you can get a small radio to do !

[Impact]

That is correct.....Impact

[Lynxman]

I start in normal mode and move the left stick up to the middle. This starts the motor and spools up in neutral collective which is smooth. Then I flip to Idle Up and I get a flat throttle curve and negative collective pitch. Nw the helicopter is ready for flying and the middle position is the neutral position. When I want to shut down I switch back into normal mode and slowly lower the stick to the bottom. I use a flat throttle curve because I use the governor mode in my ESC to keep the RPM constant. My transmitter has five point curves and if I had had a transmitter with just three points I would disregard the 25% and 75% stick positions.

I don't know if it helps but here are some example settings:

Normal Throttle Curve:
Stick at top - 75 % throttle
Stick at 75 %- 75 % throttle
Stick at middle - 75 % throttle
Stick at 25 %- 37.5 % throttle
Stick at bottom - 0 % throttle

Normal Pitch Curve:
Stick at top - 100 % positive collective
Stick at 75 % - 50 % positive collective
Stick at middle - neutral collective
Stick at 25 %- neutral collective
Stick at bottom - neutral collective


Idle Up Throttle Curve:
Stick at top - 75 % throttle
Stick at 75 % - 75 % throttle
Stick at middle - 75 % throttle
Stick at 25 %- 75 % throttle
Stick at bottom - 75 % throttle

Idle Up Pitch Curve:
Stick at top - 100 % positive collective
Stick at 75 % - 50 % positive collective
Stick at middle - neutral collective
Stick at 25 %- 50 % negative collective
Stick at bottom - 100 % negative collective

[Spidious]

Man is this addicting.
I now have the computer radio coming.
Also I just ordered the (like the red ones, last blue set they had) blue side frames, blue center frame support and the kind of blue 120 degree servo mounts.
Last week I got the red alu swash plate (no blue available). I am going with blue since my ECO8 will be mounted inside of my blue Jet Ranger body later this Summer...

I found a very good article on setting up my radio for the ECO8 at >> http://www.dream-models.com/eco/radio-6XHs-ff6.html

So I will use a combination of your suggestions and his procedure..

Gee next month maybe the lower frame brace and more ! Wish I could find it in blue ! I have found some of the pieces in blue But the main lower support in just red...

[Greybird]

Uh Oh! Look out Gadget! I think Spidious is trying to outbling you!

[Gadget01]

I think you'll be pleasantly surprised by how much better the ccpm setup handles. I never set up the oem mechanical mixer for the the Eco, but I never heard anything good about it. Just make sure you use identical servo models for all 3 swash servos- don't mix gear types or anything.

You might consider some aluminum servo arms for the swash servos. They are usually a little longer than the stock plastic ones so you'll get less unwanted cyclic interaction at control extremes since travel will be more linear. They also flex less and they also look cool.

The only thing I don't like about alum frame sides- if they flex or bend, they tend to stay a little bent. Carbon will flex but will always go back to its original shape- provided it didn't snap. Either way, it's much nicer and stronger than the oem plastic.

Another victim/member of the upgrade club. I accept no responsibilty for this.... :D

[Spidious]

I saw those. But were can I get 4 for Hitec 82 servos ? Blue preferably ?

[Gadget01]

What are Hitec 82s? I'm guessing you meant 81s. Anyways... I think I picked mine up from my LHS, but I think these are the same ones:

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXCRT5&P=ML

[Spidious]

OOps yes 81's

[Spidious]

OK I have been reading thru the manual.
If I understand it correct. I will loose one of the functions I now have.
Mainly I can turn my landing light on/off remotely. By using channel 5

But the new set up will be
Channel 1 - Aileron. This goes to the servo on the left side of the swash
Channel 2 - Elevator. This goes to the servo on the back of the swash.
Channel 3 - Throttle. Goes to your ESC (also powers RX via the BEC)
Channel 4 - Rudder. Goes to Futaba 401 gyro and then to tail servo.
Channel 5 - Gyro switching HH/AVCS
Channel 6 - Aileron Goes to the servo on the right of swash.

So is there a way I can turn the landing light on/off remotely ? Or would I have to put it in channel 5 and just fly head holding all the time ? If so how do you tell it to start up in HH all the time ?

Below is a picture of my controller I have coming if that will help any I have a 8 channel receiver coming. But I assume they would not be usable without a 8 channel transmitter..
What is the hovering pitch channel 6 ?

[Impact]

So is there a way I can turn the landing light on/off remotely ? Or would I have to put it in channel 5 and just fly head holding all the time ? If so how do you tell it to start up in HH all the time ? I'm not sure but I would think if it was made to not use the remote lead it would have a pot for gain adjustment.

Below is a picture of my controller I have coming if that will help any I have a 8 channel receiver coming. But I assume they would not be usable without a 8 channel transmitter.. The rec. could be 1000 channel but if you have a 6 channel trans. then you only have 6 channels..


What is the hovering pitch channel 6 ? The knob will make very small collective adjustments at about midstick without changing throtle curve.......Impact

[Spidious]

Well I told the wife I bought another controller for my helicopter :rolleyes:

Didn't tell her about the other bling. Yet

Took it all part tonight. I should have the frames and 120 degree supports tomorrow or about there.

Then I can reassemble it. :D

Then I will sell my Hitec Laser 6 and receiver !

[Gadget01]

Show some pics dude... You might be surprised how much more effort you put into making it nice when all of us are looking.

[Spidious]

Got the radio tonight, no frame or servo 120 degrees either. I am still trying to figure out how to program it. Read the instructions three times now. And I still am not sure I have it correct. I hooked it up to my Clearview and the controls looked weird. They didn't follow my control transmitter. But I think the Clearview had no options for 120 degree cyclic setup ?

I did notice when I was watching the servos. That when I move the left stick up the tail rudder servo also moves (normal ?)

After I get it hooked back up in the copter, I should be able to tell more..

Anybody know where I can find info on a step by step programing of this radio for my ECO8 ?

When I start putting it back together again. I will take pictures

[Greybird]

Watch the Finless ccpm Trex set-up video's. it will give you an idea of what needs to be done. It is almost the same as the Eco 120 swash anyway.

[Impact]

That when I move the left stick up the tail rudder servo also moves (normal ?)Yes, with REVO mixing on. The defalt set up has the REVO enabled. If you were never going to use heading hold then you might want it but for HH mode it must be shut off.

Anybody know where I can find info on a step by step programing of this radio for my ECO8 ?Just post the questions, I'm sure that we can get the solved pretty quickly......Impact

[Spidious]

OK I will ask, since you guys have had a lot more experience at this then me !
Starting at the beginning, here is what I have so far. I reset the radio and cleared all the old settings. So I am starting from default.

ATV r/u 100%
SWSH 3 (120 degree setup)
HV -- P + 0%, in top left of screen MAS SLV
R -- OF + 0%, inh above the R -- OF & in top left of screen MAS SLV
REVO + 50%, inh above the REVO
HOLD + 0%, inh above the HOLD & in top left of screen MAS SLV
IDLE 25%, inh above the IDLE & in top left of screen MAS SLV
HV -- T + 50% & in top left of screen MAS SLV
PI --N 100%
STRM +0% (sub trim for centering of the arm for exact 90 degrees of the arms ?)
REV 123456 ( I know what this is )
EXP + 0% at the top it shows the 12 at the top and 4 at the bottom.
D/R 100% on channel 1 2

Wow lots of settings and this isn't even a fancy new radio they have out now !
So any suggestions for setting the above would be appreciated. Understand no 3D for me !

I am reviewing the finless videos, wow they are really good, but still not sure of what I should program in the different number areas. And I don't want my copter taking off into the wild blue yonder. Because I put in something wrong !

Screen shots below

[Gadget01]

Get a scratch sheet of paper and take notes as you experiment with the settings. You might have to hold the two mode buttons down while you power the tx on to access some of the lower level settings to access the swash mixing, as you certainly would NOT want to accidently change from 120 to 90 degree in flight.

If you want to use that frame brace, you will need to mount the 2 left/right servos to the front and the fore/aft servo to the rear.

Once you have the 120 mixing set up in the tx, plug in a servo to the rx and play with the controls and just trial-n-error it with just one servo until you figure out what each channel's function is and write it down as you figure it out.

Moving the cyclic stick fore and aft should make the rear servo move 2x as much as the 2 left/right servos. Moving the cyclic stick left and right should make the 2 left/right servos move opposite to each other while the fore/aft servo remains still.

Throttle stick input (with a positive linear pitch curve) should move all three cyclic servos in the same direction as you go from the closed to wide open to make the swashplate rise.

[Spidious]

OK
I came home a little sick today.
So I decided instead of sitting in my Lazy-Boy I would sit in front of the computer/helicopter assembly area. And do a little experimenting with my servos, computer and such.
So far I think I have some of the computer setting getting closer. Also I curled the wiring, makes it look a lot cleaner. And found a 17mm think piece of a rubber bushing at work. Modified it for a swash plate leveling tool. Hopefully I will get my frames and 120 degree mounts today and tonight I can do more.

[Impact]

It seems like a lot of stuff but it's pretty simple.......Impact

[Impact]

ATV r/u 100%
SWSH 3 (120 degree setup)
HV -- P + 0%, in top left of screen MAS SLV
R -- OF + 0%, inh above the R -- OF & in top left of screen MAS SLV
REVO + 50%, inh above the REVO
HOLD + 0%, inh above the HOLD & in top left of screen MAS SLV
IDLE 25%, inh above the IDLE & in top left of screen MAS SLV
HV -- T + 50% & in top left of screen MAS SLV
PI --N 100%
STRM +0% (sub trim for centering of the arm for exact 90 degrees of the arms ?)
REV 123456 ( I know what this is )
EXP + 0% at the top it shows the 12 at the top and 4 at the bottom.
D/R 100% on channel 1 2
Pick the things from the above quote that you don't understand and we will help......Impact

[kitfoxdrvr]

OK
I came home a little sick today.


I do that a lot, too! :D

[Spidious]

HV -- P + 0%, in top left of screen MAS SLV

R -- OF + 0%, inh above the R -- OF & in top left of screen MAS SLV

HOLD + 0%, inh above the HOLD & in top left of screen MAS SLV
IDLE 25%, inh above the IDLE & in top left of screen MAS SLV
HV -- T + 50% & in top left of screen MAS SLV
PI --N 100%

EXP + 0% at the top it shows the 12 at the top and 4 at the bottom.
D/R 100% on channel 1 2

OK, I got everything. And managed to break the landing skids in the process. :censored:
Moved the holes down a little farther and had to move the rear one forward, It was to far back and I could not get it balanced with the battery.

I will do more probably Friday or Saturday. I need to stop at the LHS (Advantage Hobby) and pick up some more parts

Any suggestions on how to mount the gyro on the front and the receiver on the back ? The plates for the plastic frame one lock into place since the frames are thinner now. Boy is it a lot stiffer now !

I think the servos should be mounted with screws and nuts instead of the self tap screws ?

I tried the servos after setting them on the table in the position they will located in. Pretty cool how they move...

[Impact]

HV -- P + 0%, in top left of screen MAS SLVHovering pitch, this will make small collective adjustments around mid stick. It's the knob on the top left of the trans... See page 53 in the manual.

R -- OF + 0%, inh above the R -- OF & in top left of screen MAS SLVRudder offset, In idle up mode you can set a different amount of trim for the tail to counteract the extra RPM's. If you use heading hold then you shut this function off.. Page 52..

HOLD + 0%, inh above the HOLD & in top left of screen MAS SLVThrottle hold, set this to 0 unless you want your motor to run during auto's so you can have a bit of tail control. Page 51..

IDLE 25%, inh above the IDLE & in top left of screen MAS SLVIdle up, if you will never be inverted just leave this off. Page 50..

HV -- T + 50% & in top left of screen MAS SLVHovering throttle,this makes very small adjustments to the throttle curve at mid stick... Page 49..
PI --N 100% This allows you to adjust max. and min. collective in the three modes.. Page 49..

EXP + 0% at the top it shows the 12 at the top and 4 at the bottom.Expo, this allows you set the Expo for pitch,roll and yaw. For pitch and roll you can set different values of Expo for high and low rates. For yaw there is only a single rate so you only get one.. Page 26..

D/R 100% on channel 1 2Dual rates for pitch and roll..Page 26

Any suggestions on how to mount the gyro on the front and the receiver on the back
I would mount the rec. pack in the front for balance..

I think the servos should be mounted with screws and nuts instead of the self tap screws? It's up to you, nuts and bolts are fine but I've had good luck with the self tappers. Oh yes before I forget again the INH that you see means INACTIVE or not on. You will have to turn on the function before you OFF or ON. ........Impact

[Greybird]

I am kind of laughing here Spidious. What happened to the all stock 4 channel No 3d heli?

[Spidious]

Still no 3D for me. But after seeing at how a 120 degree setup works. I could understand why you guys were all telling me to get one ! Plus it sure eliminates a lot of extra parts !

[Impact]

Plus you can fine tune the set up so much more.....Impact

[Greybird]

The addiction worsens.... Just kidding. You will be surprised at how much better these things fly with a computer radio. Don't forget to save some money for the Swift. The only thing better than 1 heli, is 2 heli's.

[muskis2]

Humm,
I'm wondering if you are the same person. Arrhgh you are turning to the darkside. Once you bling you'll never be the same. But I can't blame you spidious, with even more tweeking and testing these eco's are way too flimsy and I had to add my home made tail boom support. Even with the main blades off the tail wiggle was way too much for my liking. It helped it but I'm still not flying worthy yet but its soo close I can taste it. But now I realized a funky vibration upon spool up so just another one. At this rate maybe july for the maiden. Bling away, just bling away.

Bill in colorado

[Spidious]

OK here are the latest shots.
I have it 90% done at this time.
The only thing is..
The swash plate moves up OK
The swash plate move down OK
The swash plate tilts correctly forward and back OK
The rudder was backwards. Switched direction now OK
The motor was backwards XXXXXXXXX. Now it is correct OK

The only thing I am still trying to figure out. Is the swash plate tilts the wrong direction side to side left/right. How do I change that setting on the radio ?

You know I kind of like this blue and red. Now all I need is somebody to buy me a Spiderman painted canopy ! :rolleyes:

But of course I still have my Jet Ranger body for later this Summer ! Wish I could do a really good Spiderman paint job on it !

[P-38J-Lightning]

You shouldnt do full throttle without the blades.

Possibility of throwing a paddle.

Very nice heli though! Love the colors!

Joel :D

[Spidious]

Only did it for a split second to check the swash plate operation..

Think it would go good with a Spiderman painted canopy ?

[Spidious]

OK another question
On the pitch/ailerons I can adjust it to have a fair amount of movement. But the elevator does not have the same amount of movement. No matter what I put the elevator dual rate on., all servos are set to 100%... Where is the setting for it ?
I have the swash set at -100 % but it is only effecting the aileron/pitch servos. This - number solved the direction problem. But is -100% OK or should it be less. To make it less sensitive ?

[Gadget01]

Your tx probably does not display all the channels on the screen at once- same thing for mine. The 3rd swash servo is likely assigned to an aux channel, so you'll have to button mash to get to it. In my case, I press the channel -> button to cycle between each channel's setting but it only cycles through the channels on the screen. To get to the other channels I have to hit the select button.

For the left/right direction problem I was going to suggest swapping what channel on the rx that the servos are plugged into and then reverse those channels on the tx but it sounds like you got it sorted out.

I don't use dual rates at all for heli flying. That doesn't mean you shouldn't either, but you certainly don't need it. You might just leave dual rates alone for now and get everything else working right.

[Spidious]

OK I have the directions all correct now.
But just how much should the plate tilt. I saw finless and his says 6% all directions on the one he was using. Would that be close to the same as the ECO8 ? Six degrees does not seem like much...
If I change the swash % setting at -100% it seems a lot. And at -50% I think it is about the same as the elevator travel..

[Impact]

I'm glad you have everything going the proper direction now. I looked thru my eco program and found this, ATV for CH1,2 and 6 is 100% servo horn is 15mm from center to center Dual Rates are set to 60% for low and 90% for the high. Check for binding at full collective (+ and -) with full cyclic applyed in all directions......Impact

[Spidious]

OK getting real close now.
Got the D/R set to 90% and 60%
Checked the pitch, it was way off !
Got it reset to
-4 degrees low throttle stick
+ 2 1/2 degrees mid stick
+ 9 1/2 degrees full stick

Balanced out almost perfect, even with the camera on the front !

And with the trim dial I can change it to a few degrees each way, so if it ever stops raining and snowing I can check it outside !

:D

[Spidious]

What do you think of the new canopy.. Photoshop :rolleyes:

[Impact]

Looks good, nice job. I see your running ten cells and a brushed motor, the brushed motors tend to run at quazar temps with ten cells. A fan on the motor will help but brushes will not last long and all the arcing from the brushes will cause glitching. I had my eco long before brushless were available and I was able to run about ten packs before the motor would need help. I would replace the brushes, turn the comm, lube the bearings and give it a good cleaning. I could do that about 5 times per motor before the comm couldn't be turned anymore. Lucky for me I have been racing electric RC cars for 30 years and I had a ton of brushed motors on hand. I sure you have heard all this before so I won't go on and on. I look forward to some flight reports.........Impact

[Impact]

What do you think of the new canopy.. Photoshop :rolleyes:Cool, I was wondering what the shadow on the canopy was from because it looked like a paddle then I saw that you had photoshoped it.......Impact

[Spidious]

I have been watching for a brushless and controller set up. But none that I can afford yet..
Question is, can I keep my 10 cell batteries and use a brushless motor and controller ?

[Gadget01]

I am all too familiar with that pain, Spidious. I spent over $300 for my Kontronik esc and Orbit 20-12 motor for my Eco. These 2 items are among the most critical in a heli so I feel spending a little extra here is worth it.

10 cells is 10.2 volts at full charge, correct? This is a little less than what a 3 cell lipo pack is- 11.1 volts. You could fly a brushless system with your pack (if my figures are accurate), but you will need a high kv motor. You may later wish you had a lower kv motor later on if you want to switch to a higher voltage pack. I run my Eco on a 4-cell lipo and it flies pretty nice- 1500 rpm headspeed.

When you can afford to go brushless, it might be a good idea to consider switching to lipos too, but this is yet another fat expense. I paid about $150 for my 4S 3700mah pack. You also need a proper lipo charger. There is also the A123 option, but I don't know squat about that.

[Spidious]

Actually my 10 cell batteries are 12v. If I am correct 1.2v per cell = 12v

[Gadget01]

Yeah, so it's been a long day and your math is more correct than mine in this case.

So yeah, your 10 cell pack is slightly more voltage than what a 3 cell lipo would give you. A 4 cell pack yields 14.8v, so with the same brushless powertrain, you would have slightly higher headspeed which you could compensate with by using a smaller motor pinion.... or not, and enjoy the increased aerobatic capability.

[Impact]

Question is, can I keep my 10 cell batteries and use a brushless motor and controller ?Yup, sure can.

10 cells is 10.2 volts at full charge, correct? NICD and NIMH are 1.2 volts per cell, 1.2 x 10 = 12 volts.

This is a little less than what a 3 cell lipo pack is- 11.1 volts. 4.2 x 3 = 12.6 volts


For ten round cells or 3s lipo you want a motor with a KV of 1200 to 1800 rpmv. This one would work and is cheap. Also you would need a speed control and united hobbies has them cheap, you could could have both for less than 100 bucks including shipping.
https://www.unitedhobbies.com/UNITEDHOBBIES/store/comersus_viewItem.asp?idProduct=2044


If you don't have a lipo charger then NIMH will be fine but if you did then the A123 cells would be great, there not the lightest but they are super durable(like nicd and nimh) and will handle huge loads and can be charged very fast........Impact

[Spidious]

Just doing a little research and found

Powerful Hacker B50-18S -- $180.00
Is good for Eco-8 (8 cells: 14 - 19T; 10 cells: 13-15T pinion), or Logo 10 (10 cells: 13T - 15T pinion). Motor has 5mm shaft. Cooling fins Not included. 7 oz. Kv:2006|Io:1.2A.
13 tooth pinion I get a head speed of 1448 rpm
15 tooth pinion I get a head speed of 1671 rpm

With a Ikarus H8-- $120.00
21 tooth pinion I get a head speed of 1750
24 tooth pinion I get a head speed of 2000

Mega AC 22/20/3H -- $104.00
Good performance on a budget! Great performance motor for the Eco-8 (8 cells: 15-17T; 10 cells: 13-17T pinion), Kv=1850, IO=1.76, RM=0.028, brushless motor has 5mm shaft, kevlar wrapped rotor, & flow through cooling via an open case design. 5mm shaft. 165g/5.8oz.
13 tooth pinion I get a head speed of 1336 rpm
14 tooth pinion I get a head speed of 1438 rpm
15 tooth pinion I get a head speed of 1541 rpm
16 tooth pinion I get a head speed of 1644 rpm
17 tooth pinion I get a head speed of 1747 rpm

Mega AC 22/30/3 -- $110.00
This motor is good for the Eco-8 (10 cells: 20-24T) and Eco-16 (16 cells: 13-15T pinion). KV=1270, Io=1.46, Rm=0.032. Brushless motor has 5mm shaft, kevlar wrapped rotor, & flow through cooling via an open case design. 5mm shaft. Weight: 224g/7.8oz.
20 tooth pinion I get a head speed of 1411 rpm
24 tooth pinion I get a head speed of 1693 rpm

So which of these seem like a good choice. And what should the normal head speed be ?

Then onto esc...

[Spidious]

For ten round cells or 3s lipo you want a motor with a KV of 1200 to 1800 rpmv. This one would work and is cheap. Also you would need a speed control and united hobbies has them cheap, you could could have both for less than 100 bucks including shipping.
https://www.unitedhobbies.com/UNITEDHOBBIES/store/comersus_viewItem.asp?idProduct=2044

Wow now that looks in my price range. Suggestion on a speed controller with bec ?

[Impact]

The hacker would be nice but costly, The H8 is just a overpriced AXI 28-20-08 but works well. http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXPPX2&P=SM

The mega's are a good option but the 22/20/3H is pretty small and would work well with super light weight eco's. The 22/30/3 is fine.......Impact

[Gadget01]

Shoot for 1300-1400 for slower response and long duration flights. The oem woodie semi-sym blades work well at this speed, and probably necessary. Any slower than 1300 and you are probably asking for problems. My setup now yields nearly 1600 rpms and it's nice and sporty-enough for general aerobatics and inverted goofing off. I get good response with fiberglass and carbon blades. Using the oem woodies at this speed is not good- too floaty and makes control more difficult.

I highly recommend you get an outrunner motor. More torque, smoother power, more efficient (generally), bigger pinion gears, etc.

[Impact]

Most of the speed controls at UH don't have online directions so it's hard to tell what will work and what won't but here here is one from BP hobbies. This is opto so you need to use a rec. pack or a external bec.......Impact
http://www.bphobbies.com/view.asp?id=A0780193&pid=A3237681

[Gadget01]

That Welgard esc is really low priced at $45. Even if the esc has a bec, it's a good idea to be redundant about where your rx gets its power and use a 4-cell pack or an external bec.

I do the 4-cell pack on my Eco- it fits in the front end of the frame perfectly and helps with the cg- and probably gives me longer flight times since my main pack only powers the motor and not the rx and servos.

[Impact]

I agree with Gadget01 about the rec. pack........Impact

[Spidious]

Sounds like my Y connector will work just fine. One side to my camera the other side to my servos..And just plug it into my receiver. But what would the wire to the receiver/motor controller plug in with no bec look like ? Or just need to get a esc with no bec circuit ?

[Spidious]

Any suggestions on a good outrunner motor and matching esc w/no bec circuit at >>UnitedHobbies (https://www.unitedhobbies.com/UNITEDHOBBIES/store/comersus_listCategoriesAndProducts.asp?idCategory= 63&ParentCat=59)

I am attempting to figure out which would work. But the numbers make no sense to me. They sure have some really nice looking motors, and the prices are not outrageous like some sites are...

[Impact]

Sounds like my Y connector will work just fine. One side to my camera the other side to my servos..And just plug it into my receiver. But what would the wire to the receiver/motor controller plug in with no bec look like ? Or just need to get a esc with no bec circuit ? You could plug the camera into any free port on the rec. All the ports have whatever the BEC voltage is......Impact

[Impact]

This will work, only issue is it has a 4mm shaft and pinions are hard to find in that size.
https://www.unitedhobbies.com/UNITEDHOBBIES/store/comersus_viewItem.asp?idProduct=3887

You can find pinions here with a 4mm hole and 48 pitch
http://www.finedesignrc.com/cars-trucksgears.asp

For speed controls UH has conflicting info about there SC's so it's hard to say. The one from BP will do fine or a Castle creations will work well( 45amp or 60 amp). The heli speed control need to have these few things;
Low voltage needs to be able to be shut off or set so low that it will never work.
Throttle has to have at least a fixed mode, auto program doesn't work with heli's.
Brake needs to shut off.
...............Impact

[Spidious]

How about this one (https://www.unitedhobbies.com/UNITEDHOBBIES/store/comersus_viewItem.asp?idProduct=2100) with a 5mm shaft ?

MODEL : HXT42-40
Max Efficiency : 30A
Max Load : 35A
Kv : 1050
Weight: 125gr
Pull : 800-1200gr
Porp Size: 10x6 or 9x5
Voltage 5-15v
No Load Curr: 3A
Size: 42x40mm 5mm shaft

Or this one (https://www.unitedhobbies.com/UNITEDHOBBIES/store/comersus_viewItem.asp?idProduct=2127)

KDA36-M
Shaft Size: ƒ³5.0mm�~20mm
Motor Dimensions: ƒ³37.4mm�~36mm
Weight: 116g

Or this one (https://www.unitedhobbies.com/UNITEDHOBBIES/store/comersus_viewItem.asp?idProduct=2126)

KDA36-S
Shaft Size: ƒ³5.0mm�~20mm
Motor Dimensions: ƒ³37.4mm�~30mm
Weight: 79g

Then a site some where that you can figure out what size pinion to use for about 1400 rpm ?

[Phil R]

This will work, only issue is it has a 4mm shaft and pinions are hard to find in that size. https://www.unitedhobbies.com/UNITE...?idProduct=3887

Just ordered one for my Eco 8. I'm running 10 cells (Nicad) or a 3s Lipoly pack. I'll let you know whether I can get the headspeed right with a Kv of only 1250. I'm thinking of going to 4 or 5s Lipoly...

[Spidious]

Go to This Site (http://www.e-helis.com/helicalc.php) and put it in as a H8 same as a Axi 2820 to figure your head speed/battery combinations
I figured a 17 tooth is 1416 and a 18 tooth is 1500 rpm

[Spidious]

Cool site to figure your head speed or needed pinion size

http://www.helitown.com/Downloadpagepipoinheadspeed.html

If you don't have Microsoft Excel Google has a free online one at

http://www.google.com/google-d-s/intl/en/tour1.html

[Impact]

Just ordered one for my Eco 8. I'm running 10 cells (Nicad) or a 3s Lipoly pack. I'll let you know whether I can get the headspeed right with a Kv of only 1250. I'm thinking of going to 4 or 5s Lipoly... 4S works well with that KV........Impact

[Spidious]

Remember that Jet Ranger body ?

Well this is the last view of it you will see till the surprise unveiling :eek: !

[Chachin]

Looking forward to the Jet Ranger body Spidious :D. I think whenever I'm ready to give a shot at a scale heli, the Eco-8 Jet Ranger fuse will probably be my 1st attempt.

Chachin..

[Spidious]

If you go with the white jet ranger body. Wait till you see mine before you do anything to it !

[Chachin]

Yeah I would probably go with the white one although I'm not planning on putting one together anytime soon. So looking forward to how yours looks!

[Impact]

How about this one (https://www.unitedhobbies.com/UNITEDHOBBIES/store/comersus_viewItem.asp?idProduct=2100) with a 5mm shaft ?

MODEL : HXT42-40
Max Efficiency : 30A
Max Load : 35A
Kv : 1050
Weight: 125gr
Pull : 800-1200gr
Porp Size: 10x6 or 9x5
Voltage 5-15v
No Load Curr: 3A
Size: 42x40mm 5mm shaft

Or this one (https://www.unitedhobbies.com/UNITEDHOBBIES/store/comersus_viewItem.asp?idProduct=2127)

KDA36-M
Shaft Size: ƒ³5.0mm�~20mm
Motor Dimensions: ƒ³37.4mm�~36mm
Weight: 116g

Or this one (https://www.unitedhobbies.com/UNITEDHOBBIES/store/comersus_viewItem.asp?idProduct=2126)

KDA36-S
Shaft Size: ƒ³5.0mm�~20mm
Motor Dimensions: ƒ³37.4mm�~30mm
Weight: 79g

Then a site some where that you can figure out what size pinion to use for about 1400 rpm ?First motor would be fine with 5S or 14 cells.
second motor is marginal but would work with 3s or ten round cells.
third is just to small.

This one would be best..........Impact
Model: HXT35-42
Input Voltage : 7.4V~14.8V (2~4S Li-po)
Kv : 1250 rpm/V within 10%
Current capacity : 45A/30s
Dimentions : 35mm X 42mm / 1.38in X 1.65in
Shaft diameter : 4mm / 0.16in
Weight : 132g / 4.66oz
Number of poles/magnets : 14
Recommended model weight : 600~2000g / 35~81oz
Power equivalent : .32,2stroke
Stator Dimentions: 28x20mm

[Impact]

Remember that Jet Ranger body ?

Well this is the last view of it you will see till the surprise unveiling :eek: ! When you have the jet ranger body on the heli it will not allow much cooling for the batterys,speed control and motor, so a set-up that doesn't generate a lot of heat would be best.. I can't wait to see the Jet Ranger hovering 2 feet off the deck inverted :D ..........Impact

[Spidious]

Impact
Go to http://dhrc.rchomepage.com/calc.htm
I decided to go with the one below.

Model: HXT35-42
Input Voltage : 7.4V~14.8V (2~4S Li-po)
Kv : 1250 rpm/V within 10%
Current capacity : 45A/30s
dimensions : 35mm X 42mm / 1.38in X 1.65in
Shaft diameter : 4mm / 0.16in
Weight : 132g / 4.66oz
Number of poles/magnets : 14
Recommended model weight : 600~2000g / 35~81oz
Power equivalent : .32,2stroke
Stator dimensions: 28x20mm

With a 18 tooth pinion ? For a head speed of 1384

Oh...And no 3D for me !

[Impact]

Yup, looks good. You may want to get a few extra pinions like 19 and 20 also just so you can fine tune the setup........Impact

[Spidious]

Still looking for a cooling fan to put on top of it. I thought I saw one in Hobby Lobby at one time that bolts on this type of motor. But now I can't locate one...

[Gadget01]

I've guys put 3 blade planker props on top of their outrunner motor can. As long as the prop is balanced and you get it centered nicely it should work well.

[Impact]

Lynxman used a fan from a small GWS ductedfan unit, he said it worked well......Impact

[Spidious]

Well I had my son ship it off today for the latest bling to the body. Talked to Craig on the telephone also tonight about it. Cool bird in the background. Blue and Gold Macaw. That likes to laugh a lot. Kind of funny to hear it in the back...

Was going to ship it UPS. But looks at what they wanted to ship a 9# package from Champaign, IL to Orland, CA

UPS Next Day Air Early A.M.®
Billable Weight: 46.0 lbs.
10:00 A.M. Wednesday April 18, 2007
227.49 USD*

UPS Next Day Air®
Billable Weight: 46.0 lbs.
12:00 P.M. Wednesday April 18, 2007
196.14 USD*

UPS Next Day Air Saver®
Billable Weight: 46.0 lbs.
By End of Day Wednesday April 18, 2007
182.72 USD*

UPS 2nd Day Air®
Billable Weight: 46.0 lbs.
By End of Day Thursday April 19, 2007
161.05 USD*

UPS 3 Day Select®
Billable Weight: 46.0 lbs.
By End of Day Friday April 20, 2007
104.40 USD*

UPS Ground
Billable Weight: 46.0 lbs.
By End of Day Monday April 23, 2007
49.07 USD*

Notice how they bill by size and as far as they are concerned. It should weigh 46#

So I had my son mail it Priority Mail from the Post Office for $24.20 Which included the following.
Priority Mail $15.85
Balloon Priority $7.85 (due to the dimensions of 42x13x16)
Delivery Confirmation $0.50
Total of $24.20

And I always thought it was cheaper to ship via UPS :rolleyes:

[Spidious]

Well the wind today wasn't to bad. So I thought I would do another test flight. Man does it handle a lot better with the new radio and aluminum head ! Got it up to 15 feet and was doing quite well when it did a immediate 90 degree turn to the left. (Glitch ?) I think I will be using just my rx battery for the radio and servo operation, just in case..

I still have to get rid of this darn tail wag. I have set my 401 gyro to non ds and will give that a try later this week. The servo is a MultiPlex Mini Polo Digital Size Servo.

SPECS: Length: 1.1" (28mm) 4.8V 6.0V Width: 0.5" (13mm) Torque: 39 oz-in 49 oz-in Height: 1.3" (33mm) Speed: 0.10 sec 0.08 sec Weight: 0.77oz (22g) Motor: 3 pole ferrite

So I am not sure if it is compatible with the ds setting on the 401 gyro or not ?? Does anybody know if I should leave it on ds or not ?

Looks like I have to get a new set of skids, when I broke it putting it together. I tried a repair that did not hold up. So maybe I will go with he wider ones any ways...

[Impact]

I still have to get rid of this darn tail wag. I have set my 401 gyro to non ds and will give that a try later this week. The servo is a MultiPlex Mini Polo Digital Size Servo.
So I am not sure if it is compatible with the ds setting on the 401 gyro or not ?? Does anybody know if I should leave it on ds or not ?I don't know for sure but I would think you could run in DS mode......Impact

[Spidious]

I had it in ds mode, since it seemed to move correct and not jittery, till I flew it. But should I put in 0 delay or start at 50 delay and tweak from there ? To get rid of the tail wag ?

[Gadget01]

I believe delay should be "0" when using a digital servo. You may have to tweak the gain by adjusting subtrim for the channel assigned to the 401's gain lead. One of the toggle switches on my JR does this so I can toggle between HH and rate mode. The "manual" that comes with the 401 is not very well written (call it Engrish). You'll find a better alternative in the EHBG.

DS mode feeds the tail servo with a much higher rate of positional update commands. If the servo you are using is not able to deal with it then you can obviously use normal mode but the tail does not lock in nearly as solid.

Don't limit your tail servo choice based on what servo mounts you can readily find. With a small plate of aluminum or carbon, you can cut and file your own to fit whatever servo you want and bolt a boom clamp (or 2) and it's done. I still have the alum servo plate I made for my Eco sitting in the parts bin if you want it since I made version 2.0 from carbon. It is cut to fit a full size servo, like the 9254.

[Spidious]

I have a Futaba T6XHs radio. Is there some way to adjust the gain on the gyro ? ehbg says channel 5 which is what the connector for the gyro hh is turned on/off with. Should be set to 25% and 75%. But I can't find in the instructions how to do that. So I assume it is 0% and 100% ? Would that make any difference ?
Except for the tail wag at basically all speed (moves back and worth about 1-2 inches) . It flies great. I see no play in my control to the tail and it seems to move freely. I don't want to put on a control rod. As when I put on my Jet Ranger body. It would be very difficult to install it. And I would probably have to cut my body up more.

[Impact]

To adjust the gain go to the ATV screen then scroll the cursor over to CH5 and adjust the %. The gear switch(the one that was going to turn on landing lights)will control HH and non HH and you can have different gains for each. I never use Normal mode but in HH my gain is in the 80% range.......Impact

[Spidious]

OK I am home now. Set the hh to 80% and the non/hh to 20%. Does that sound good.
edit::::::::: OK I figured out the instructions and have it set at 80% and 54% and the light is now operating properly now...

The top left switch (idle up) I assume if you set the throttle at 0% It would be like in autorotation when turned on. But if I set it at 100%, that means that the motor will run at full speed no matter the position of the left controller position ? So if I had it at 100% and then turned on the throttle hold. Would it be the same effect.

If not how do I set it to go to 100% motor speed, and the top right switch turned on to throttle hold not have any motor speed ?

Also i am using a Heli 4000 Digital Speed Controller till I get my brushless motor and controller. I want to disable the bec part of the controller and just use my rx battery. Any idea how I can do that ?

[Impact]

To adjust the gain go to the ATV screen then scroll the cursor over to CH5 and adjust the %. The gear switch(the one that was going to turn on landing lights)will control HH and non HH and you can have different gains for each. I never use Normal mode but in HH my gain is in the 80% range.......Impact
Whoops, that's not right. The big tall switch next to the aileron dual rate switch will control HH or non HH. The gear switch will be for throttle hold.

The top left switch (idle up) I assume if you set the throttle at 0% It would be like in autorotation when turned on. But if I set it at 100%, that means that the motor will run at full speed no matter the position of the left controller position ? So if I had it at 100% and then turned on the throttle hold. Would it be the same effect.Yes, yes and the throttle hold will override the Idle up function meaning if you had Idle up on and fliped the hold switch the motor will stop( as long as throttle hold is set to 0)......Impact

[Impact]

I have the same speed control and I don't use it anymore. Most times you will disconnect the red wire to disable the BEC. I seem to have lost the manual for the SC but if you don't want to risk yours I can try it with mine and see what happens.......Impact

[Spidious]

Yep it is the red wire. Now I have the servos and camera running off of my rx battery. Charging tx and rx up overnight. Looking for calm weather in the morning
Was extremely calm weather tonight. So i took the CX2 outside and flew it. Looks really great with the tran led lights.. And I got it up about 50 feet in the air. Later I will tinker with it and get some faster forward flight. But it flies backwards really good. So I think I need more forward swash on it.

[Gadget01]

I dare you to loop or roll the CX2... just make sure you get it on video for us to enjoy!

[Spidious]

<--------

:D

[Gadget01]

Since when is a loop or a roll considered 3D?? I would consider those moves to be basic aerobatics.

I have seen full scale helis do loops and rolls, so don't bust that definition shizzymizzo out on me.

I guess that CX2 is gonna get a lot more use for right now... heh

[muskis2]

I tried to loop the cx2...... (yea I know I was board and there was a wicked headwind)


ahem...needed to replace some parts the moment it stopped accelerating into the ground. no video though.

bill in colorado

[Spidious]

He He :rolleyes:

[Spidious]

Well
Since I have to rebuild it again.
And I have a brushless motor coming already. I decided to go ahead and sell my brushed motor controller.

It is on this forum At this link (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=675333)

After all I need the money now so I can get the brushless controller.

Oh also the body is getting closer ! Do these sneak peeks look cool or what ! :eek:

[Spidious]

Darn it. pulled it apart farther and noticed the tail shaft was bent also. I think I will put the hardened main and tail shaft while I am at it.

Which of the main shafts are better ?

Ikarus Hardened Main Rotor Shaft (http://www.fxaeromodels.com/product_info.php?cPath=49_50_67&products_id=782) $15.50

DMT-1017 (http://www.fxaeromodels.com/product_info.php?cPath=49_50_53&products_id=2322) $16.50

Which of the tail shafts are better ?

DMT-1219 (http://www.fxaeromodels.com/product_info.php?cPath=49_50_53&products_id=2318) $6.46

Ikarus Hardened Main Shaft (http://www.fxaeromodels.com/product_info.php?cPath=49_50_67&products_id=785) $9.95

[Artemetra]

Darn it. pulled it apart farther and noticed the tail shaft was bent also. I think I will put the hardened main and tail shaft while I am at it.

Which of the main shafts are better ?

Ikarus Hardened Main Rotor Shaft (http://www.fxaeromodels.com/product_info.php?cPath=49_50_67&products_id=782) $15.50

DMT-1017 (http://www.fxaeromodels.com/product_info.php?cPath=49_50_53&products_id=2322) $16.50

Which of the tail shafts are better ?

DMT-1219 (http://www.fxaeromodels.com/product_info.php?cPath=49_50_53&products_id=2318) $6.46

Ikarus Hardened Main Shaft (http://www.fxaeromodels.com/product_info.php?cPath=49_50_67&products_id=785) $9.95


I've only tried the Ikarus ones, but I won't fly without the hardened shafts on both tail and main. It's just too bad that they bend too, when you crash. But not as easily. They are worth the price, imo.

[Spidious]

Well at least something good happened today.
My motor showed up all the way from China. Looks really nice, but I will have to cut a flat spot for the pinion gear lock screw.

Also : Craig also emailed that he is done with my body, what do you guys think ?

As soon as PayPal shows my money in my account I can pay for it and get it on the way back.
Looks pretty sharp huh ? :D

[Impact]

looks great......Impact

[Gadget01]

Sweet !

[Chachin]

Looks great Spidious, you should take that one to an event. It'll really stand out :D

Chachin..