Kadet, Hanger9 Cub, Telemaster?

[Dave Helms]

New to the hobby but getting ready to purchase the end game plane and start the build while devoloping the skills required.
After going through the Slow Stick, Super Cub, EStarter and the likes I know I am looking for a Min. of 6' WS and a easy, relaxing plane.
In the end I would like to do a camera set up of some sort so a heavy lifter is one of the requirements.
I have read all of the threads linked to each model but I am sure if compared side to side each has its high point and low points.
All three of the models (Kadet, Hanger 9 (or other maker) Cub and the Telemaster's) all appeal to me.
Based at 6900' elevation will limit the lifting cap. and will require me to over power the plane a bit so this might limit which model would be the "best" of the three (or more options if I missed one).
Any thoughts or suggestions would be a great help in making a choice.

Dave

[jonesn2fly]

I would recommend the Telemaster to anyone!!!! ;)
I still enjoy flying the one my dad and I learned to fly with 15 years ago (by ourselves without an instructor)!!!! :eek: :D
I like to fly it with a .45 - .51 2 stroke - it will fly inverted all day, do rolling circles, etc., and still practically land itself - just line it up with the runway and chop the throttle!!!!
Here is a pic of it from 2 summers ago (with 2nd covering job, and I also converted it to bolt on wing instead of rubber bands):

[jrb]

Based on your experince level I'd suggest you consider them in this order:

Kadet (or other Trainer type configuration w/nose wheel, etc.)
Telemaster (its a tail dragger)
Cub (there's a reason their no longet a primary trainer)

[Michael in Toronto]

The Cub is not a trainer, and won't fly as well for a beginner like the other two choices.

[Dave Helms]

That helps a lot, Thanks.

I will be starting work on a smooth landing strip, void of Sage Brush, in the pasture this weekend. As I learn to fly the faster planes, dodging obsticals durning landing is proving a challange for me. I will build it wide and long enough for a big plane.

Now that the choices are down to the Telemaster and the Kadet is there any feedback on the flying qualities of the two?

I am a long way from feeling good about taking either up but enjoy the building part. Might just as well start that facet of the project sooner than later.

Thanks,
Dave

[AmpAce]

The Telemaster is hard to beat. I use my e-powered Senior as a aerial photo platform. At our 3500' elevation, it doesn't even know it's got the camera on board. It's very forgiving, will fly quite slowly, and is easy to land once you get it to come down.

If it has a fault, it's that it doesn't want to lose altitude, even with power off. Many times I've had to "go around" again because it was going to overshoot the field. The slightest thermal or updraft will cause it to gain altitude with power off. Did I say that it likes to thermal?

I haven't flown a Kadet, but I know the Telemaster would not be a bad choice.

AmpAce

[funflyrc]

There is a saying........"Nothing flies like a Telemaster". I have flown all of them except the 12 footer. They are relaxing. They are my "go to planes" at the end of the day.
Mike

[danfly]

I love the Telemaster. I have built three over the years and regret anytime I am without one in the hanger!

I have flown the very nice Big Kadet and like it as a trainer but it still doesn't fly like the Telemaster.

[R/C Dallas]

I had a Kadet (nitro powered) many years ago when I was learning to fly and it was a great plane. Very stable and gentle flyer. I just purchased and received my electro telemaster during Hobby Lobby's sales a couple of weeks back but I'm waiting for thin CA to hinge the control surfaces to get her in the air. The ETM is built extremely well and I am sure it's going to be a wonderfull flyer too. I'm anxious to fly her!

I am sure you will be happy with either the Kadet or Telemaster and would recommend getting whichever one is on sale when you decide to buy! Then you can use the extra money on more batteries to give you more in the air time!

Randy

[Ed Lyerly]

Dave,
I vote for the telemaster. This one is great ! Download the videos and see it fly.
http://www.hobby-lobby.com/telemaster6.htm
Ed

PS .... this thread probably should be in the "Sport" forum

[hermperez]

Hard to say, I have both... since your skill level is not too high I would recommend the Kadet Senior, it is the ultimate trainer.. it also looks more like an airplane with a windshield and windows.

[8kasl]

"After going through the Slow Stick, Super Cub, EStarter and the likes I know I am looking for a Min. of 6' WS and a easy, relaxing plane."
Dave,If I understand you right,I believe you don't need a basic trainer and none of the above planes except the Cub are scale.6' doesn't qualify for giant scale.I would recommend a 1/4 scale Cub or equivalent.Don't worry about the altitude as I fly at 8000' in Colorado and have found that you do not need to overpower your planes unless they have high wing loadings.My 86" Super Kadet(bashed from the Kadet Senior weighs 10.5 lbs.and flys ok on as little as 40W/lb.I found this out one day when I flew it reciently with a weak and cold LIPO and after 2-3 mins. of slow flight,I landed and checked the power with my wattmeter and it read only 440W.The plane was flying last year on around 750-800W and was fully aerobatic with a 30-40 deg. climbout.Anyway,here's a pic of the Super Kadet---span increased to 86",fuse width and height increased by 3",flaps,ailerons,tail-dragger and cowl from Tower Hobbies 182 Cessna ARF.This plane was built as a cargo ship and has flown with over 2 lbs of video camera(old Sony Hi8)Even at 8000' the plane took-off in around 75'(no cargo) and that was on only 440W!If you must get an ARF, and don't care about improving your flying skills,then get the 8' Telly.

[8kasl]

After reading my post,I realized that it might be confusing about the mods to the Kadet.The only part from Tower is the Cessna cowl.Also, the outer wing panels from the flaps out are plug-in and the tail is removable.

[jrb]

Based on the following:

“I will be starting work on a smooth landing strip, void of Sage Brush, in the pasture this weekend.”

I now vote for the Telemaster!

The Kadet with its trike gear (typical RC trainer configuration) would be more difficult to get off a pasture – it better suited the an RC flying site.

As a tail dragger the Tele will got off thick grass much better – you could even go with tundra tires!


Though, you’ve got to get the point where you very comfortable using rudder – do you use the left stick now?


Adding a gyro (& switch) can help tame the tail; flying off grass helps too.

[Dave Helms]

Based on the following:

“I will be starting work on a smooth landing strip, void of Sage Brush, in the pasture this weekend.”

I now vote for the Telemaster!

The Kadet with its trike gear (typical RC trainer configuration) would be more difficult to get off a pasture – it better suited the an RC flying site.

As a tail dragger the Tele will got off thick grass much better – you could even go with tundra tires!


Though, you’ve got to get the point where you very comfortable using rudder – do you use the left stick now?


Adding a gyro (& switch) can help tame the tail; flying off grass helps too.



First off, THANK You to all for the advise!

So far I have been learning on the SS with an aileroned Super Cub wing and am about to try the EStarter. I am using the rudder but not effectively enough to advance to any of the lg. planes. I just know I wnat to head that way and enjoy the builds so I figured I would play with that in the evenings while learning. Some 17 yrs ago I attempted to master this hobby and terrorized many a park in Burnsville Mn. before I gave up.
I wish we had "grass" as we knew it back in Mn! Here it is rock and Sage Brush with small tufts of prarrie grass here and there. Not enough to soften any poor landings nor keep the horses fed.

[Dave Helms]

"After going through the Slow Stick, Super Cub, EStarter and the likes I know I am looking for a Min. of 6' WS and a easy, relaxing plane."
Dave,If I understand you right,I believe you don't need a basic trainer and none of the above planes except the Cub are scale.6' doesn't qualify for giant scale.I would recommend a 1/4 scale Cub or equivalent.Don't worry about the altitude as I fly at 8000' in Colorado and have found that you do not need to overpower your planes unless they have high wing loadings.My 86" Super Kadet(bashed from the Kadet Senior weighs 10.5 lbs.and flys ok on as little as 40W/lb.I found this out one day when I flew it reciently with a weak and cold LIPO and after 2-3 mins. of slow flight,I landed and checked the power with my wattmeter and it read only 440W.The plane was flying last year on around 750-800W and was fully aerobatic with a 30-40 deg. climbout.Anyway,here's a pic of the Super Kadet---span increased to 86",fuse width and height increased by 3",flaps,ailerons,tail-dragger and cowl from Tower Hobbies 182 Cessna ARF.This plane was built as a cargo ship and has flown with over 2 lbs of video camera(old Sony Hi8)Even at 8000' the plane took-off in around 75'(no cargo) and that was on only 440W!If you must get an ARF, and don't care about improving your flying skills,then get the 8' Telly.

I just found an earlier post of yours just this AM regarding your Kadet. It made for very interesting reading and I saved it to review later.
Many years ago I started on a Kadet kit and after crashing EVERYTHING I gave up before the Kadet ever saw air. Many kits and planes went to a good home back then. Once again my son and I are attempting this and this time it looks like it stuck big!
Our experiance with "proping up" is just with the ART planes with small batteries, some of which would fall out of the sky as soon as the thrust from the hand launch was gone. Throw enough money at it with a good dose of "this isnt going to beat me again" attitude and sucess followed.
I too want to head towards the video camera idea as we live in a beautiful valley that I would like to heavily photograph. There is also the want to drop a heaping load of horse apples on one of the neighbors down the road as a secondary motivation for this size. He sits at the table and watches us fix these planes and just chuckles for hours. He too is getting interested in this hobby.
I have found this site to be a wonderful learning tool and the suggestions given have helped a lot. It is now between the Kadet and Telemaster 8', both of which appeal to me equally. The point of the tail dragger is well taken but now I see a Kadet can be modified to just about what ever one wants.

Thank you again to all,
Dave

[Dave Helms]

Dave,
I vote for the telemaster. This one is great ! Download the videos and see it fly.
http://www.hobby-lobby.com/telemaster6.htm
Ed

PS .... this thread probably should be in the "Sport" forum


I have watched that video numerous times and enjoy it! I have tried to answer questions of my own simply from watching it.

My appoligies to all for the improper posting area. I assumed that the "Sr." planes qualified for this forum but I stand corrected and will let this thread die.

Dave

[jrb]

Several Tele are know to be flown very near Burnsville: http://trivalley.mitesites.com/BuildSite.cfm?CFID=1116187&CFTOKEN=91532097&CFID=1116187&CFTOKEN=91532097 .

Best of luck; keep us posted.

Jim

[Ed Lyerly]

I have watched that video numerous times and enjoy it! I have tried to answer questions of my own simply from watching it.

My appoligies to all for the improper posting area. I assumed that the "Sr." planes qualified for this forum but I stand corrected and will let this thread die.

Dave

Dave,
No need to apologize :). This thread is just more appropriate for the "Sport" forum (IMHO), and I thought you would get MUCH MORE feedback there.
Ed

PS .... the moderator of this forum will probably move it for you if you ask .... no need to let the thread die.

[lenrev]

I often see the, "nothing flies like a Telemaster," comment but didn't find mine as forgiving as I expected. I used the Hobby Lobby ARF Senior Telemaster with AXI 4330 and 20 cells. At thirteen pounds it seemed to fly well until I got into a wind shift while doing a down-wind turn and it tip stalled, lacking about a revolution of recovery altitude. Sorta reminded me of several Cubs I have seen do the same.

I can easily say I screwed up in the flying but the crash made me look at the construction and THAT was surprising. Lots of hot glue, no epoxy that I didn't add. When I bought a replacement fuse I found the rear-most former broken and had to repair it through the stab opening.

A big concern, for me, when a relatively new flier considers the Telemaster, Cub, or similar plane is whether they have learned to fly with the left hand.

[hermperez]

That is a good point, a TM must be flown using the rudder and ailerons.. unlike a Senior Kadet. The Kadet is a true primary trainer...

Of course the rudder gives added ability to the TM.. I have been thinking of building another TM but without dihedral, and try to take out all the yaw-roll coupling. I also have 3 Kadet Seniors powered by electrics, been flying them electric since 1992.. take a look at my web site, scroll down to the bottom:

http://home.att.net/~hermperez/

[wrenwright]

A big concern, for me, when a relatively new flier considers the Telemaster, Cub, or similar plane is whether they have learned to fly with the left hand.

Doubtless that if one is going to learn to fly the Telemaster that it will be necessary to learn how to use the rudder or otherwise ground loops and other maladies can become common.

[Dave Helms]

Thank you once again. This is exactly the feedback I was looking for.

Today was 14 mph winds at just under 90 degrees to our newly graded 30 x 400' strip.
Had no choice but to pratice the left stick as flying today was hovering and side slipping to a landing. Pretty? NOPE, actually real choppy trying to keep the wings level and the plane pointed down the strip on 2 of 4 landings.
It is for pratice sessions like this that I keep the SC / SS which I consider a parts doner regardless. The SC aileroned wing is quite lofty and was great pratice in the wind.

Rest assured, my current abilities are far short for flying a Telemaster Sr. but it is the focus and the reason I am praticing.

Dave

[litespeed]

I'm not a "plane guy" at all, I actually have been flying heli's for 3 yrs but joined a club that is mainly a "plane club". Anyway I figured I'd get into flying planes too and since I'm an electric nut I started with a E-Flite Ultra Stick 25 and it was way too much for me so I decided to do a big slow plane and just got a Senior Telemaster myself. I'm using an Axi clone to the 4130 and I'm running it on 7s2p a123 cells. I run a e620 Raptor on 10s2p and it is just awsome. I wanted to stick to the 10s packs but I couldn't find a motor that would go that high without being too much power. According to MotoCalc it should fly for 25 mins with a 16x8 prop. Hopefully this will be a good trainer for me. Kinda funny getting into planes now since I'm already an instructor for heli's in my club.

That was my decision to go for STM so wish me luck. I hope I didn't make a mistake.

Tom

[wrenwright]

Tom,

I don't think anyone could make a mistake by getting a Telemaster. They are simply great flying airplanes. I'm working on a 12' version right now.

[litespeed]

Hey Wren,

Can't wait to check it out.

Tom

[Dereck]

Dave
THis could be seen as throwing cold water on your plans, but over my few years in this hobby, I've come across several who thought they'd start out by building their ultimate model while learning to fly.

The best that mostly came out of it - by the time they'd gotten to where they could look at flying their dream, they looked at that model as something built by someone who couldn't build models. Which was regrettably true...

Mostly, the dream never got finished as they slowly discovered that RC flight was, in fact, somewhat more difficult than they thought.

Despite all the flogging of instant gratification, the conduct of a lot of model aircraft from take off to landing, and going home the same shape it started the day, takes a certain degree of skill and effort. More than being able to bounce a few ounces of park flier around, for one.

My favourite anology - if flying was so easy, why does the USAF spend all that money on trainers? Why not just toss the new college grad the keys to that F22 and let him loose?

So, dream of that monster by all means, but build up your skills to where you can enjoy it. After all, even if you buy the readymade version, rolling it into a ball and having to buy another may wear you down.

FWIW - we had an electric Kadet Senior in our club years ago. With an Astro 40G and 24 2000mA SCR nicads, it would have been heavy enough. With the addition of a pound or so of wing joiner metalwork and epoxy - so it would fit in the owner's 3-series BMW 2 door - we all agreed not to try and weigh it.

Take-offs, even on the overstrained wire main gear moved to taildragger position, were a matter of applying full power and watching it until it got high enough, when power was reduced. It was so easy to fly, we got the owner's wife to fly it around in figure 8s by explaining which stick to push left or right, and just telling her 'left' or 'right', qualified by 'a bit' or 'lots'

She did just fine for five minutes or so, then got bored.

I've had a Sig 1/5th Cub - that's her in my avatar. Pussycat in the air, but take-off and landing on that narrow tracked scale UC demanded I pay a lot more attention than that Kadet needed.

Why not help the dream along and start with a Kadet Seniorita or LT-25? Easy to build, much cheaper to rig out - you don't even have to spend out on LiPos, they fly fine on good old cheap-O NiMh cells and cheaper motors. There's reams hereabouts on converting both of those smaller Kadets. The 'Rita is a superb three channel model, while the LT25 was designed as a four channel - messing between the two modes is not as simple as some may make it sound.

Another subject - Tom - with 'litespeed' as a handle and what's written under it, I suspect you could be a cyclist?

Regards

Dereck
Who's other "beloved" is a custom lugged steel Bob Jackson ...

[Milton]

Telemaster 2 to 1

Milton

[Can Do]

-I owned a .40 size Telemaster for >10 years; it served as a 35mm camera platform, a video plane, a float plane, payload plane, etc. It was a smooth and very stable plane even in light winds. It now serves as a club trainer!
-I presently own a Telemaster Electro, a Sr Telemaster (electric), and a Kadet Seniorita (electric). I have flown a Kadet Senior before and it flies very much like the Seniorita; both are floaters, very responsive and good short take off and landing planes. However, because they have stick fuselages, they probably are more fragile for rough terrain. Remember the Kadets have trike gear and the the Sr and Electro Telemasters are tail draggers.
-All things considered, I would vote for a Telemaster for your flying conditions. Just put some tall tires on your plane!

[Tim Wolff]

Today was 14 mph winds at just under 90 degrees to our newly graded 30 x 400' strip.
Had no choice but to pratice the left stick as flying today was hovering and side slipping to a landing. Pretty? NOPE, actually real choppy trying to keep the wings level and the plane pointed down the strip on 2 of 4 landings.
It is for pratice sessions like this that I keep the SC / SS which I consider a parts doner regardless. The SC aileroned wing is quite lofty and was great pratice in the wind.

Rest assured, my current abilities are far short for flying a Telemaster Sr. but it is the focus and the reason I am praticing.

Dave

A Slow Stick in a 14 MPH crosswind? You shouldn't have much, if any, trouble flying either the Telemaster or Kadet (Sr. or otherwise). You will find them much better flying planes than what you are used to.

[wrenwright]

Rest assured, my current abilities are far short for flying a Telemaster Sr. but it is the focus and the reason I am praticing.

Dave


Dave,
I think you're missing out a bit here. The Telemaster is one of the EASIEST planes to fly. Period. If you can fly anything, you can fly a Telemaster.

[litespeed]

Another subject - Tom - with 'litespeed' as a handle and what's written under it, I suspect you could be a cyclist?

Actually Dereck,

I got the name from my driving style. My other hobby is off road cars, 100 mph ones. I also have a hot little Audi S4 too. I like to go fast! ;) I picked up the helicopter hobby for when I don't have a ride comming and to also keep the boredom down. The "what's written under it" is from the last crash on the DRZ400, that was from last spring. See the pictures,

Tom

[Dave Helms]

Dereck,

Great words of wisdom. All of what you say has gone through my mind. For some strange reason I keep coming back to the dream I had 17 yrs ago when we first tried this hobby. I had the Sr. kit sitting next to the bench for some time back then. Why the 8'? I cant answer that, just because I guess. I own a Ferrari and Vintage race car repair and restoration shop and the build up of these is as much fun as the driving. I find the same enjoyment in the models and research them to death before starting, hence all of my questions. I am highly considering the 40 size as a stepping stone so we are on the same page with that. I figure nothing will go to waste as with my son involved as well one of us can always use and enjoy anything we build.

Tim,
The SS is mated with a Super Cub wing that got flaperons installed so to pratice flaps and ailerons on something that I didnt care about wrecking. The SC wind makes for a strange flying creature and requires a fair amount of speed for a landing. I have a EStarter ready and waiting once I "master" the Frankinstein. I figure if I get fairly good with something that wasnt meant to fly the next step might be easier. There was nothing pretty about the flight in the wind. I was, in a strange way, hopeing the monster would become a parts plane so I could move on but it came back in one piece again. This PM my son welded up new landing gear that might allow a roll on landing. The wing is set so far back (so the gear is as well) that it tips to its nose sitting on the table.


The Telemaster is by far the front runner but I have to admit that 8kasl's Kadet has me very interested. I will have to pry a great deal of data out of him about this high altitude flying, obviously he has that mastered! Strangely I have pondered what would happen if I lowered the wing on the Tele, flattened it out......... Here I go again, the horse cant even see the dang cart!

Dave

[8kasl]

Dave,I'll be glad to tell you what I've learned about high altitude flying.I moved from Cali(Bay Area 5 yrs ago )and one of the reasons that I increased the span to 86" on the Kadet was to make up for the thinner air.The first time I flew it I realized that the stock wing @ 78" would have been just fine.Actually,the problem was getting the thing DOWN!!!!!!It just wanted to keep gliding once in "ground effect"Since the air at 8000' is around 20% thinner than at sea level,there's less drag and the momentum keeps the speed up.
I learned a trick from a seasoned flyer about 30 yrs ago when I was first learning to fly tail draggers.Always reduce the throw on the tail wheel relative to the rudder throw!!! Most of the problem with take-off is OVER CONTROLLING!Set the throw so that the plane will turn in a 180 Deg. in no less than around 30'. As you get better at straight take-offs,give the tail wheel more and more throw in small increments until you can do the 180 in 10-12' or what ever the runway will allow.You will not believe how much easier it is and how much quicker you will to master the wonderful world of Tail Draggers.On my Kadet i only have about 1/8" travel R&L.It will do a 180 in around 20' and my runway is 60' wide hard dirt and 700' long.It's nice to live on 8 ac. and just roll a big plane out of the shop and fly.I've never had a Telly because I don't like the lifting stab and the fact that it's a lot harder to make it look like a scale plane.It's just a matter of personal taste I guess and the Kadet is a lot cheaper.All you have to do to make it IMAA legal is to add 1 rib to each wing panel and you have about 84" span. ;)
Rich

[wrenwright]

Here are some videos of the 12' Telemaster that I took at SEFF '06. You can see the 8' and 6' versions flying around too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yS1PZGBYf0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWH2SwaJ5jg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQ9lxX5PuVA