The Sunderland Project [Archive]

Gary Mortimer

Mar 31, 2007, 03:23 AM

Well first off why the name!

Well Jeff has the Catalina Island Project thread, and that was a classic flying boat so I've selected my favourite British flying boat, the Sunderland.

The Story so far....

Once apon a time in a galaxy far far.... no hang on thats not right.

For many years now I have been flying hot air balloons in Africa, its the day job.

That day job lets me interact with all sorts of researchers who are always looking for new was of finding data.

The idea of a UAV was born over a couple of very intensive meetings in the bar at Governors Camp, all duly recorded and minuted in the correct fashion of course.

Since that auspicious meeting a friend, by the name of Lyndon Estes has been sending the odd idea for uses from the USA where he lives and gradually things have come together.

I have been following these threads for a couple of years and with Eladios RCAP3 and alt hold along with MX's logger blended into one, the time to take the plunge has finally arrived.

Just up the road from me here in South Africa is a pretty big private game reserve that sits at the base of the Drakensberg mountain range. This reserve will be our test site.

What we initially want to achive is vertical RAW shots for vegetation study and then thermal images for the purpose of computerized game counting.

Mixed in with this the ability to fly the 20km game fence looking for holes.

Perhaps a big mountain to climb, but set the sights high and all that.

Gary Mortimer

Mar 31, 2007, 03:58 AM

I was going to purchase a Senior Telemaster and use that but....

Fortune shone on me.

This week I was on a course in Durban and hanging right above the door was a T240 Precedent, 90 engine and 7 servos. All for the sum of R800.

Durban was the Sunderland base so thats where the idea for the name was born.

I had to have it, less than the cost of shipping for the Telemaster and a little bit bigger.

I have to admit I think its a 240, I have not actually measured the wings, I believe the 180 was the next down so it could be one of them. It could also be a Precedent like aircraft from anyone else.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=321518

One thing was for sure it would not fit in the wifes car so my brother in law picked it up and deposited it at his place. I will go down on Sunday afternoon to pick it up.

Anyhow some images of it and my son Adam yesterday at the brother in laws pad below.

The time has come to decide on which FMA unit to buy, I was just going to get a CPD4 but as I need to get another receiver anyway the 8 might be the way to go.

Will it work any differently than the 4 with its extra vertical sensor??

Is the receiver actually any good??

Anyone have any experience of the 8???

As the 8 seems to learn the settings of your transmitter will that allow me to set it up with differential ailerons and whatever else.

I see stuff about it in the heli context here.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=359353#post7189243

But would like to hear a little more about it in aircraft use.

The other thing I'm wondering about is the inboard flaps. Having never had a model with such thing.

What sort of angle should they drop too?? Also does one use the flapperon function and make the ailerons drop a little as well??

So many questions, one things for sure the first flight, which of course will happen as soon as I can will be a nervous time for me.

I think I'll get a few hours flying the thing around under my belt before I change anything, very lucky to be able to fly most days. As I'm the boss I often have to have the afternoon off.

Cheers

G

Tom Harper

Mar 31, 2007, 11:37 AM

Dan Paulson is doing a lot of agricultural work. He has some comments on the receiver here. Might be of use:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6675687&postcount=9

d_wheel

Mar 31, 2007, 11:53 AM

The time has come to decide on which FMA unit to buy, I was just going to get a CPD4 but as I need to get another receiver anyway the 8 might be the way to go.

Will it work any differently than the 4 with its extra vertical sensor??

Is the receiver actually any good??

Anyone have any experience of the 8???

G

I have never owned one, but have heard nothing but bad reports about it. Do a search and see if the posts are still around. Personally, I would stay away from it and go with the CPD4 and a known good receiver.

Later;

D.W.

Dan_Jones

Mar 31, 2007, 01:24 PM

I agree with D.W. I got the 8 channel version for my helicopter and couldn't get more than 50 feet away without glitches. Get yourself a receiver that you know will work good. And if it doesn't, then you can replace it!

Gary Mortimer

Mar 31, 2007, 04:20 PM

The CPD4 and a JR receiver was certainly what I had in mind until I started thinking about needing extra channels for things.

A single box would be a neat solution.

In my mind I had ferreted away the fact that I had seen less than complimentary things said about the receiver.

Looking at the other thread put the idea of more efficient receiver antennas into my mind.

I guess a little pointless as we will all nodoubt migrate to 2.4Ghz over the next few years. I see those guys really are having range problems at the minute.

But its an interesting topic, making a vertical unless it was a wing mounted whip is a little draggy, I was thinking more along the lines of a top of the wing dipole. I know its out of phase but it would still work a little better than the normal single wire would it not??

Also whilst pondering deep science over a beer or two with chums last night I wondered if I should'nt beef up the struts for the wings and hang things off those, ie the cameras.

I could probably make them a little aerodynamic and it would be much easier to reach or change them.

Things would also be a little further away from an RFi point of view.

Just a thought.

The airframe will certainly not be best friends with windy days but if I keep the weather limits to those I know oh so well, 15 knots max wind then I'm sure it will be fine.

After tomorrow mornings jaunt I shall strike out down the N3 to go and get the airframe.

G

Gary Mortimer

Apr 01, 2007, 02:25 PM

Of course I had to see if the engine worked and all that jazz.

It did so it was law to go and try and fly the beast.

We have returned with aircraft in tact, deep joy. I was very happy with the way the beast mooched around. Very stable and thankfully differential ailerons were already mechanically set up.

I'm not 100% happy with the engine, its new to me and set at a 90 degree angle which is also new and confusing. This week I will devote to getting it running nicely.

So for today I will log three flights totaling about 20 minutes flying maybe a little more but we will say 20 minute.

Not until I have flown the airframe for about 10 hours and am completly happy with the way it enjoys flying will I add any bits. Then I will start one by one. No1 being the copilot.

G

20 minutes total.

Tom Harper

Apr 01, 2007, 09:36 PM

Gary,

Nice day, twenty minutes in the air, airplane still in one piece - doesn't get much better than that!

Tom

Gary Mortimer

Apr 02, 2007, 11:50 PM

8 minutes Johan had just said, thats how long the aircraft had been in the air.

Turning left over the polo field pavillion and the inability to raise the nose, oh bugger.

So I immediatly thought radio range and ran towards the aircraft, the nose picked up. Humm don't like this, too high to land straight ahead so extend to enter downwind turn right downwind and then she just pitches down. Close throttle and wait for bang!

The wings are toast, but most of the rear fuselage is useable.

I'm not sure if the engine will go again.

Johan who I have been teaching to fly over the last 3 weeks was more shocked than I was. Having crashed more aircraft than I care to mention I think I took it better. But that might not explain away why I can't sleep and am writing this at 0500 in the AM o'clock.

I have to wait another three hours for the shops to open and balsa purchasing to commence.

Now I have an opportunity to change the radio fit, I want to mount the elevator and rudder servos at the back and free up the central cabin space. Making compartments for all the gubbins.

It amazed me quite how affected Johan was, he's a police diver and yesterday had to fish out two drowning victims, that really puts crashing models into perspective.

We are a funny bunch at our flying field, as I've just mentioned, Johan the police diver, Wayne the horse whisperer and me a balloon driver. Not one of us has a real job!

Right off to see if anyone has a set of plans for a Precedent T240.

G

28 minutes total, a short break ;-)

workshop

Apr 03, 2007, 12:29 AM

Oh I'm heartbroken... :( We're all with ya Gary... Keep that nose up and give her another go...

As a special effects director, I don't have a "real" job either... Being the boss of your own time will help a lot with your project... especially now... :o

Jeff

Gary Mortimer

Apr 03, 2007, 04:01 AM

As soon as dawn dawned I went out to the Landrover to once again survey the damage.

Picking up various pieces I could'nt resist popping inside an grabbing some glue.

Well the bits that are obvious should be stuck together right away so that I don't loose then when the rest are consigned to the rubbish sack.

Half an hour later quite a big bit is back together and only the lack of glue stopped me.

Looking at the wings, I might be able to effect a repair. I will finish the fuselage first and then worry about them.

Luckily the nose cowl was off for the incident so no work required on that!

If the engine is kaput then it might be time to think about going electric.

G

Flight time 28 minutes Repair time 30 minutes.

clolson

Apr 03, 2007, 03:49 PM

If it is any encouragement, I put a Rascal 110 in the dirt due to radio range issues. It went back together (after I emerged from 6 long months of depression) :-) and is again successfully flying ... I documented my efforts here ... in reverse chronological order:

http://baron.flightgear.org/~curt/UAV/Rascal110_1/Rebuild/

I got lucky and my wing came through with only one area of major damage, but our fuselage damage appears to be pretty similar.

Curt.

Gary Mortimer

Apr 04, 2007, 01:36 AM

Thanks for that link Curt and both yours and Jeff's support.

I am fitting the jigsaw back together and will tidy it up a little once I am sure how it should all fit. Most of its there and I should have the nose very close to being back on by the end of the day.

I will take the engine to a chap in town who has the smallest best stocked shop around, got to help to keep him in business!

As I have said before I am going to mount the servos at the rear so you Senior Telemaster thread was very useful Curt.

The only worry I have is that the long leads will be a fab antenna for RFi do you do anything to screen them??

Does anyone have any experience of this??

Cheers

G

Flight time 28 mins Repair time 2h 30

Gary Mortimer

Apr 05, 2007, 04:53 AM

Ok so the engine has a bent crank.

Time to think about electric.

Its better for the vibration as well I know.

Could somebody tell me just what I would need to replace a 90 engine.

My understanding would be an engine (obvious) probably brushless. Some form of speed controller and batteries. Oh and charger.

As this is going to be an expensive exercise, batteries capable of at least 30 minutes flight at first and when my wallet has recovered something suitable for 1 hours of flight.

Then I'll need somebody to send it all to me as a gift and then it won't attract import duty ;-)

I'm going to look around South African sites right now and see whats on offer.

On the more positive side the fuselage rebuild is giving me reason to think about where to position everything.

I was thinking about mounting the RCAP unit and FMA in the area that used to be the front windshield. Making a box hatch out of balsa to replicate the canopy.

Hopefully batteries won't be too large, I believe it all needs cooling so the open area which used to allow the exhaust through might be converted and left with cooling holes.

All ideas greatfully received.

G

Flight time 28 mins Repair time 5h

Gary Mortimer

May 01, 2007, 02:54 PM

Postal workers of the world have united in an effort to halt my progress!!

I have also been busy working on a doco for french tv http://safaricast.spaces.live.com/

So I sit waiting for the FMA Copilot, 3 weeks.

The RCAP from Eladio

And my worst of all my RC gear which I sent off to Pretoria to be checked.

Because of work I have not touched the aircraft again but I do have a trainer sat here that I can put it all in for trials.

I'm running out of time in other ways though as I will be working in the UK for 3 months from sometime just after the 20th. Guess I'll just take the RCAP,Co Pilot and my trannie with and have a play whilst there.

Oh but a bit of better news I am training a chap who is fantastic at wood work and he says he'll gladly make a new set of wings for the Precedent if I can a set of plans. He has built several RC aircraft but never flown them. I'm changing that fact.

G

Flight time 28 mins Repair time 5h

Tom Harper

May 01, 2007, 03:38 PM

Gary,

My Telemaster has been rekitted twice - I mean right down to just a pile of smashed ribs and spars. With enough carpenters glue you can rebuild anything.

Keep us posted.

Tom

Gary Mortimer

May 02, 2007, 06:08 AM

I know mate but time is fleeting which is good actually because it means I can afford the glue.

Theres something about carpenters glue, the smell says we are going to make something!! Cyno and all that jazz is just not the same.

The wings on the Precedent were foam covered awith veneer and I don't think they would take much to bring back to life. I have never veneered anything before so maybe this is the learning experience.

Off to maiden a friends SPAD for him now, lets hope I don't rekit that!!

G

Gary Mortimer

May 10, 2007, 03:49 PM

As I read my last post I realise I just maidened another Spad, this time, Waynes the horse wranglers. His flew very well even in the umm far too windy to be sensible conditions.

But the gathered crowd had to see the machine fly, its the law.

Maybe thats why our little group have cristened ourselves the Cowboy Flying Club, or CFC for short, bad for the atmosphere in many ways.

Anyhow the reason I add this note.

The postal workers have released my radio gear and the FMA co-pilot.

Hooray!!!

So right now its sat next to the trainer airframe I have and I am thinking I would rather mount the sensor rear of the wing so that I don't have to connect and disconnect it all the time.

The instructions tell me to mount it on the wing, sensibly away from exhaust fumes.

Or maybe I could mount it under the fuselage??

What experience do you all have??

Maybe theres a thread somewhere on the very subject of mounting Co Pilot sensors??

Oh and the other Spad, I had two turns pronounced it fit and it was then rekitted on its next trip out. (no not me) But being a Spad it will be out again soon. The boys have bought enough materials to build 6 or 7 and are gaining valuable experience all the time. ;-)

Hopefully Eladio's and MX's RCAP/Alt Hold/GPS/WPS tea making device will arrive before I have to leave for 4 months work in UK.

With luck I will fly the Co-Pilot tommorrow and have half and hour or two to get used to it before adding the autopilot. Then I will pack all the electronics up and take them to the UK with me.

This weekend may be a total loss because not only am I working but the Sharks (local rugby team) are playing the Blues in a quarter final. Its a big thing locally and I think the area will basically close down.

If the Sharks win, then the final will be in Durban in two weeks time. KwaZulu Natal will definately close down.

Why am I adding this detail, to put where I am at with this project in a timeframe thats easy to remember when I am reading this in 18 months time.

Have a great weekend all.

G

Heres a link for sensor setup http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=679290&highlight=co+pilot+sensor

Tom Harper

May 11, 2007, 07:32 AM

Gary,

I mounted the FMA sensor on top of the Telemaster fuse a ways behind the wing. On my LT40 it's on top of the wing - no difference in performance.

Airboatflyingshp

May 11, 2007, 08:31 AM

Gary can you get hold of Correx in your part of the world its what the SPAD guys use .
I know Marius a countryman of yours couldnt get any plastics but hese up North........ theres two designs Barny and the Correx cub that come straight to mind for a quick build tough replacement?

icebear

May 11, 2007, 08:42 AM

Gary,

Glad I found this thread - good luck with the re-build and your project.

Re the Co-pilot I prefer mounting on top of the wing and 45 degrees turned so that the stabilizer is not in the way for the rear IR sensor. I have tried lots of different mounting positions and they all seem to be working fine.

I hope you will be able to post some from your trip to the UK as well. After all it will be summer there, so you may continue testing...

/Icebear

Gary Mortimer

May 12, 2007, 06:00 AM

Well I put the sensor on the rear fuselage and it works just dandy.

You guys will laugh at me, but I amazed by it.

I'm not sure how it would work in the training situation, it felt very odd but I guess if you start with a Copilot and don't know any better then it would be fine.

Can't wait for the Eladio/MX etc etc RCAP to arrive.

We are lucky we can quite easily buy correx here in KwaZulu Natal as well as of course steal estate agent signboards!! Durban plastics in Pinetown is our local supplier.

Right off to the watch the Rugby.

Have a great weekend all.

G

Gary Mortimer

May 14, 2007, 01:38 AM

Well the Sharks won!! Deep Joy.

That meant Sunday began in a bit of a haze.

We had a cracking day of flying at the polo fields, in more ways than one. All of us had a little off or two.

Johan our Police diver who had to fish two bodies out of the water this weekend came down for a nice relaxing fly and had the misfortune of witnessing his wings fold.

The CPD4 was put through its paces by several people training and I can see its benefit now.

Waiting for the post office to open to see if the RCAP is there.

G

Gary Mortimer

May 19, 2007, 06:44 AM

Blimey another weeks gone by.

The RCAP units have arrived. So have Berg winds, a condition that is set up when the high temps at the coast pull down the cold mountain air from 11,000' and its flipping windy.

Combined with that it is of course dear reader the final between the Sharks and Bulls today so flying is totally out of order!

I also have to consider very carefully the instructions for the RCAP and plan our first route, probably all four corners of the polo fields.

Maybe tommorrow if the wind drops. (and my head is upto it)

Gary Mortimer

May 20, 2007, 01:04 PM

So the sharks lost and the wind kept going.

I have been down to the Polo field with my GPS and plotted the corners and a couple of other places.

Based on that I have decided on the 2.5km route attached below. All well within sight of the centre of the Polo fields. I used my favourite GPS and map fiddling program, Oziexplorer (http://www.oziexplorer.com/) Its a cool thing.

The dog leg out to the corner of the road is just for interest.

With my Copilot on maximum gain I have been observing how much sky it takes to turn my trainer airframe on rudder alone, its quite a way but I hope my waypoints are set far enough apart.

Little bit of excitement as Johan and I arrived at the field, a Rescue 911 helicopter departing and an Augusta 109 on the ground.

The pilot had fallen off his polo pony a little while before and lets hope he's not too serious.

Otherwise CFC have aquired their first real helicopter!!

Heres hoping I can fathom how to upload waypoints and make sure that the unit is working in time for a test flight tommorrow. Not reall sure what all this departure and arrival stuff means other than the obvious, must find a thread with all the instructions.

G

icebear

May 21, 2007, 11:53 AM

Gary,

I think you'd be ok with those leg lengths.
I would say go with ARRIVAL and set something as much as say 50 m's. I am not sure mx got the DEPARTURE working, but check the thread.

Praying for nice weather...:-)

Good luck!

Bjorn

Gary Mortimer

May 22, 2007, 01:22 AM

Would you believe it, I've been chuckling at all your bad weather and its snowing here today!!

Had a quick flight to test the Zlog last night and hopefully the altitude hold but it was so windy and bumby that I did'nt dare.

Still heres the first ever plot, perhaps somebody could tell me the probable reason for the stop in recording.

There was plenty of memory left as several plots happened afterwards.

Or is it something I have done in the software??

Must take all the kit out of the aircraft and back it ready for my UK trip, leave on Thursday.

I still have to make a Jungle Gym for the kids, we are having a Braai and Build party this afternoon!!

G

icebear

May 22, 2007, 04:28 PM

Gary,

Nice and sunny here - welocome to Europe...:-)

What did you set the sample rate to? Maybe I am mistaken but it looks like you have thousands of samples and ran out of memory? Mine is set to 1 sample/sec and that seems enough.

Have a good trip!

/Bjorn

Gary Mortimer

May 23, 2007, 12:39 AM

I did set it up for 300th of a second so maybe that was it.

Is sampling at 1 sec intervals enough for alt control or is that part much faster??

Most things packed.

G

Gary Mortimer

Aug 02, 2007, 02:09 PM

And were back.....

Yep a couple of months of inactivity, due in part to a spot of ill health, deep joy, and lots of weather here in the UK.

Why did I pick this summer to come here??

Anyhow I have an airframe and made a test bed for the devices and have bought a Pentax Optio which I'm not sure I'm happy with.

From the balloon I have been flying I have taken a couple of trial shots at around 1500' and some obviously lower.

Hopefully in the next week or so I will get the aircraft flying.

Probably should have seen this before in another thread but is there any software that allows me to see what the RCAP GPS is seeing???

Cheers all

G

icebear

Aug 02, 2007, 05:06 PM

Nice to see you back Gary!
And yes, what a european summer to pick for a visit... :(
Which Optio and why not happy ( I'm asking because I have three of them I like, s4, s5, A20)?
Don't know about the software but I guess you are planning on sending it by a Maxstream modem or something like that to your ground station?
Nice pictures!

/Bjorn

Tom Harper

Aug 02, 2007, 06:05 PM

Gary,

Welcome back - great shots!

Gary Mortimer

Aug 09, 2007, 10:21 AM

Well fate is conspiring against me this year, gave the new airframe its maiden, went home and charged the batteries and then flew it again for 16 minutes, all I dared on the charge and was well pleased.

My first electric aircraft, very strange not being able to hear the engine power up.

Anyhow on returning home work called and I'm now sat in Scotland, Scone, at the airfield to be exact. I have to cover for a pilot up here, still pleasant flight this morning.

So all my gear is down south! Boo.

The software I was meaning was something that connects to the RCAP to allow me to see what the GPS is receiving on my laptop when its sat on the bench. I have probably missed it somewhere in all the threads.

The Optio is the T10, one of the things I don't like about it is the distortion, you can see that on the view of Thurleigh airfield, the horizon is curved, I was not that high!!

I'll eat haggis for you all,

G

eladiomf

Aug 09, 2007, 06:55 PM

The software I was meaning was something that connects to the RCAP to allow me to see what the GPS is receiving on my laptop when its sat on the bench. I have probably missed it somewhere in all the threads.

G

Hi Gary

Nice to see you again. I see that you have not test yet the RCAP3 and AltHold system than I send to you.

I think that you are using the tiny track 3 for sending data over the audio channel. I have not experience with Tiny track that send APRS data ( I use a modem in the plane and a modem in the ground, and have real RS232 data), but you can take a look to the next link:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=725477

Eladio

Gary Mortimer

Aug 10, 2007, 06:50 AM

Hi Eladio,

I did have a quick go with the alt hold before I left South Africa but now I'm finding it hard to find time to get anything done with it all but I will, honest ;-)

I would like when the RCAP / GPS is sat on my bench to see what satellites it sees etc etc.

G

Gary Mortimer

Sep 04, 2007, 09:37 AM

One thing I have been playing with is the free http://www.3dtracking.net tracking software.

Attached an idea of the tracks it produces from a flight last night in the balloon.

It could'nt be simpler to operate, cell phone with gprs account, either a phone with its own gps or an external gps.

I have an external bluetooth unit.

start the gps

start the software

allow the unit to sent data over gprs, then forget.

It can update a live map every few minutes or seconds the choice is yours.

The only thing it does not do is send the altitude. Anybody know any better software of a similar ilk??

Cheers

G

Gary Mortimer

Sep 23, 2007, 10:54 AM

Found a hill to soar from yesterday and its one of the places said to be Macbeths castle.

Should make an interesting test target!!

I have everything installed and am waiting for the wind to drop for a test flight tonight. I am perhaps lucky having a weather station yards from my house http://www.microlights.net/html/summary.html

Just had a play with the alt hold and some thing was loose so that seems to work now.

Now fingers crossed for the wind to drop

Gary Mortimer

Sep 23, 2007, 06:37 PM

Well, the wind dropped I went out onto the airfield, took off and the aircraft pitched all over the place. That was without either the FMA or alt hold enabled.

It could be because its been a while since I have flown a high wing trainer. But I went slope soaring to get my fingers back into practice last week and fly indoor helicopters so I think I should be able to cope.

But it was so bad that I just did two circuits and landed the nose pitched up like billy oh. I thought well disconnect all the toys and fly, in a get back on the horse sort of way. Even worse. Flew out on runway heading aircraft entered right hand turn. Memories of spearing the ground with the Precedent.

Always when i think the aircraft is out of control i run at it, figuring it could be a loss of transmitter range.

I did regain control rolled level landed straight ahead.

Thought must be aft c of g for some reason but it seems fine, the aircraft is very pitchy.

Actually just wondering if i was flying too fast.

Anyhow for the record two very short height plots.

Neither with the RCAP on!!!

G

Have to keep noting these defeats down for the eventual day when it all comes right!!

Gary Mortimer

Sep 25, 2007, 04:50 PM

Well I had to go and try the aircraft again, without anything attached.

Thankgoodness it worked ok.

Now I have to find out how to trigger the RCAP properly from a single switch not a multiple position one.

I wondered if the airfield web cam would pick me up.

Well you can just see my car to the right of the Jetranger.

Again, sorry if this is dull but it will form a record for me later.

This is a fun adventure for me!!!!!

Gary Mortimer

Oct 11, 2007, 10:53 AM

Well leaving Scotland tommorrow, then back to South Africa next Wednesday.

Playing with UAV's has not progressed as much as I would have liked.

I met, a young chap, Mike Smith who is getting into quadrocoters and had bought a camera set up in anticipation of its arrival. I have had quite a bit of fun flying that with him. Finishing yesterday with this flight from the top of the hill that I can see from my house.

Check out the people that hog the hills around here ;-) I don't think he was slope soaring though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMrAYkQA1Gw

So I have learnt some stuff here, I also made an engine power pod.

It allows me to use the nose of the trainer aircraft for whatever I want, especially having a nose mounted camera free of a propeller.

The battery, and speed controller are attached, so changing batteries is easy and also cooling for the controller is at a maximum!

Getting the thrust line correct is a nightmare but all a learning experience.

But with no battery engine or speed controller sat inside the fuselage a basic trainer airframe becomes much more roomy.

Of course you need to bring the c of g back to the nose, all that forward weight having gone. Instead of adding weight I simply glued on a couple of lengths of square and put my relatively low weight camera further forward.

It brings me right back round to my free flight days, a basic large glider might end up being my vehicle of choice with the power pod on top. I crashed enough of those growing up!!

The airframe I end up with will probably not end up being cutting edge flying wings or other such complex designs as many are using but a boxey glider that research students can easily change broken bits in the field.

Perhaps whilst not getting on with the making a UAV fly I have had some time to think about airframes and what I need to achive my goal or surveying game reserves back in Africa.

I am following Ziks, Flying Fox with interest http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=734791&page=5

Perhaps I really ought to nail the airframe and powerplant and then drop a capable autopilot in.

Next missive from Africa!!

G

Good luck Mike with your quadrocopter.

Gary Mortimer

Dec 23, 2007, 04:51 AM

Just realised its been ages since I have put anything here.

Not much has changed, the Precedent is being repaired by a friend now as I just never have time.

Have been flying on a glorious morning here, but a cold front approaches from the west to dampen Christmas Eve and day.

I will add the zlog of this morning as you'll see I climbed until I ran out of fuel, which was 2000 odd feet. Then on the way down found quite a bit of lift and although the trace does not show it I managed a further 10 minutes soaring of the Big Stick which is not what they are meant for. My Zlog is quite frequently loosing the ends of flights now, not because I have run out of memory, but maybe power I'm not sure. Is anyone else having problems??

With the Precedent repaired I hope to get a new autopilot device for it. Not sure what but we will see what the new year brings.

Oh I strapped the camera to the Stick and the pictures were awful due to vibration I think so I am busy restoring an old trainer airframe that I had lying around and fitting the electric gear to it.

Merry and safe Christmas to everyone

G

Gary Mortimer

Dec 27, 2007, 09:50 AM

Bugger more glue required

The wings folded, now thats unfriendly

Still absolutly amazed that the zlog survived, it was in foam but the engine was actually buried deep when I arrived at the scene of the accident.

I could'nt throttle down as the well secured (cable tie) aileron cable ripped half the receiver out with it as the wings went.

A quick look suggests that the glue gave way. Very clean break. The aircraft was straight and level at the time.

G

Gary Mortimer

Mar 11, 2008, 04:13 AM

Ah dear reader.

It came to pass that the Precedent was restored and it awaited it first flight.

My friends house and workshop in which is was fixed up then burnt down!!

Taking with it engines and a few bits of radio gear.

Ho hum.

Gary Mortimer

May 18, 2008, 12:02 PM

Back in Scotland, sat at the airfield at Perth.

Time to start again, this time the powered glider route. Same task from my house to the top of Macbeths Castle and back.

I can see it as I type.

Had an interesting incident recently that saw me sat at the bottom of big mountain in a hotel car park with a friend snowed in on top of that mountain with a search and resue team walking up to find them and a helicopter on the way.

We could see where the cave was.

What I would have been given to launch a device from that car park that might have confirmed they were there before the heli or search team arrived.

They had a tracking device and cell comms so i guess all that was not strickly needed but certainly an interesting SAR problem.

G

Gary Mortimer

Jun 25, 2008, 11:36 AM

Airboatflyingshp

Jul 03, 2008, 10:36 AM

My hi tech balsa effort has been copied!!

Well all right, someone has done the job properly.

Instant power conversion for large gliders!

Not much range I guess.

http://www.icare-rc.com/ema.htm (http://)

Dont bet on it get the gearing right and the right airframe and you can spend a long time in the air with a motor glider like big brother ..a twin boom or try ascale subject like the M55 mystic.... Eflight Ray did a neat twin pusher under the wing seat saddle set up for one of his. Ive posted pictures somewhere in waterplanes for a glider conversion? Less drag more small motors ,more thrust ..less power ..less drag no pylon ;)

Big Brother is a free plan download.

Gary Mortimer

Jul 08, 2008, 05:46 PM

Running the motor glider as its supposed to be now, with power, I have logged perhaps 10 hours with it on the slope and finally thought that I should add the battery.

Very happy with it.

Twinstar 2 arrived today, hoping that will be a useful platform for an atto.

Gary Mortimer

Jul 10, 2008, 06:20 AM

My friend Mike, who owns a quadrocopter with a camera was drafted in to look for a downed aircraft, lost 5 days ago and searched for in a field of wheat with no joy.

He had a quick look yesterday morning but no luck so we decided to loft the glider with one of his fpv cameras.

Three minutes later..... we found it.

Mike actually saw it as I flew past on the small screen of his recorder and then we looked on a laptop for a bigger image to confirm.

We then moved from the flying field to the incident scene parking as close as we could and Mike flew his quadro to have another look.

All lots of fun and just showed how well it works to have a camera airborne as the combined efforts of lots of people searching the field on foot had failed totally.

Of course we had to have a beer to celebrate.

Gary Mortimer

Jul 20, 2008, 05:20 PM

I have really been enjoying the Twinstar 2, flying it at least 4 times a day since I completed it.

Today I caught one of the propellers in my clothes and pulled off a blade.

No dramas thought I, just up the road is a model shop so off I went and purchased two props that looked just like the ones I have seen in so many images of the Twinstar.

I should explain that the supplied items in the kit are quite gucci numbers with shaped tips.

The ones aquired today are more paddle like.

Anyhow, the new props make an almighty racket through the airframe, the aircraft flys but its embarressing.

I am now trying to find the exact multiplex props online, does anyone know there exact part number, I just pulled out the building instructions and see the ones I bought today are indeed what was fitted origionally.

The newer ones are mucho better!!

Below a couple of images taken from an Optio T10 which is just sat on the cockpit area with a servo firing it.

Im off to find the twinstar thread and ask there!!

Gary Mortimer

Feb 07, 2009, 08:18 AM

Blimey I looked up and close to seven months went by.

The Twinstar rocked, no other way of putting it.

Its still in service with Mike at Flyingscotscam he has taken some cracking images.

If only it was 50% bigger, what can be done to commission Multiplex to make everyone another camera platform, a little better than the moviestar although to be fair I have never flown one of them.

Onto now

Well I shall be back in Europe in under a month, hopefully to have one of the first export Atto's and then fit it to something suitable

I guess I can only really go with the fantastic Sunderland recently mentioned in RCME

http://www.myhobbystore.com/4398/CT-Sarik-Slec-SETRC2052-Sunderland-Set.html

I have played with FPV lots and for me its over rated.

It is fun thats for sure but Im not sure how much it adds to the entire scene.

On my wish list now is a better quality light weight video downlink.

Mike and I flew HD video last summer, that was very nice, but we never put it on the downlink.

I also made the RCAP work and it did exactly what it said on the tin.

The Zlog has provided sterling service, its been in 2 major offs and still works well.

In summary, I think that I have a better understanding of electric flight, taking stills and video from the air and lots of niggley bits.

Bring on the summer. (Well the next one for me ;-) )

airmcn_3

Feb 07, 2009, 10:36 AM

Connexxion

Feb 07, 2009, 10:49 AM

Gary,

you might find this thread interesting:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=921899

Cheers.

Gary Mortimer

Feb 07, 2009, 02:33 PM

We have an assortment of Pentax Optio's with in one case am IR switch and another cigarette filter paper and elastic band trigger!

I think regardless of camera type, light is the key.

Connextion, that thread. argh its all numbers.

Rather if it flys dont change it and get away with bodging as much weight to it as you can.

Cheers

G

Gary Mortimer

Feb 08, 2009, 03:07 AM

Dean reckons he as yet to find an airframe Atto can't fly, well be damned I will make one!!

I was testing it yesterday and on the other side of the world my mate Mike was flying the Twinstar.

So far the Phoenix as my sons called it, for it is the fuse of a 40 sized trainer and some estate agent sign boards thrown together.

Its now flown for exactly 100 minutes over 12 flights.

Rudder Elevator only.

I like it so much I might even make it up properly, that was not supposed to happen.

Anyway pictures from yesterday, some in South Africa, one in Scotland! See if you can work out which is which.

Hurry up with the export stuff Dean we have uses!!

By some perverse reasoning it also seems that whilst you cannot easily export gear from the USA we might be able to fly your gear in the UK.

I shall try and get the Phoenix up to 2 hours flight time today, but I'm cooking Sunday lunch and its windy. On the plus side I am looking at my launchsite as I type so any change in the Wx and I just walk out the door!

G

Gary Mortimer

Feb 12, 2009, 03:26 AM

So on fight 20 at around 155 minutes total flight time in the climb, big big pitch down.

Chopped throttle

Wings started to vibrate or shake at speed induced frequency I guess. Also lack of real stiffening to be fair.

Really did'nt seem to be having any effect on proceedings from the ground.

My standard, suspect radio range so run towards model, no difference.

I am assuming now that the co pilot sorted out level flight for me allowing after the aircraft disapeared begind trees for the beast to hit the ground level engine stopped.

My suspection is that in one of my six flights today I knocked or pulled a wire that became loose.

The pitch down was power going off, and recovery was automatically facilitated when some power found itself back into the system

Thankfully no airframe damage so I shall rewire everything and fit the standard old battery pack for the RC. Something I have been meaning to do.

But as this thing was just cobbled together, I sort have not bothered.

In this case of course if as I suspect the main battery pack became momentarily disconnected I would have retained control.

Smack on the back of the head for me.

Yes I feel ashamed.

The pub will make it better??

Pushing the bounds of tape, dowel and foam technology is not easy you know!

The airframe is the same as used by Chris at DIYdrones, just a bigger rudder and elevator and sign board to replace the bits after distruction by my boys who took, whilst I was out to gliding it from the top of their jungle jim, I did'nt shout too much, honest.

Rather enjoyed the fact that they were trying!

Attached another image from Scotland and strange how these things work, we were both flying again at about the same time and a tree leapt up and grabbed the twinstar, a ladder had to be requested.

Absolutely no damage though.

Gary Mortimer

Feb 13, 2009, 09:59 AM

Well it flew again, my suspicions were right, electrics.

So thats another 10 minutes, I had to fly its Friday the 13th.

2 hours 45 when it gets to 5 I shall try and draw a plan of the mods. Its a superstar airframe and the bigger wing seems to be working. lots of Ardupilot builders might appreciate a better wing.

Wish I did have an Atto in it so I could try and see what was happening and then trim ir nicely.

Its only rudder elevator and the copilot is turned down to stop osillations and even in the stiff breeze it coped well.

I could barely move forward, reckon it must be at least 15 knots out there!

Tom Harper

Feb 13, 2009, 11:27 AM

Gary,

Sounds like an aerial adventure.

Should be easy to add ailerons with just a flap hinged onto the TE with clear packing tape. Actually I am dedicated to using a single right wing aileron. It's simple and I have never observed that it works any different than two ailerons.

Gary Mortimer

Feb 13, 2009, 01:19 PM

Humm thats an interesting idea, Im very happy with the rudder elevator only actually, which has suprised me!!

I think I will try that though Tom, an extra servo though! Oh the expense.

Gary Mortimer

Feb 16, 2009, 02:29 PM

Tape and foam made the magic 5 hours, I shall attach the dimensions should anyone with a superstar wants to make a better version of mine.

It does fly though.

Took the chance to fly it over some flooding that we have on the farm right now, thankfully no rain tonight otherwise it would be trouble, highest river level in years, its normally only half the depth.

Airboatflyingshp

Mar 05, 2009, 07:08 PM

http://spadslopers.desertsites.net/plans.htm ideas and more at SPAD to the bone.

Gary Mortimer

Mar 05, 2009, 07:21 PM

Yes I have made a couple of Flicks, Spad to the bone is great.

When in South Africa miles from anywhere there are always houses for sale but very often not balsa to buy so correx is the material of choice!!

Will you be coming to Leamington for the RCAP meet airboat????

Seem silly for you not to as your so close!!!

Gary Mortimer

May 07, 2009, 12:57 PM

Well its not looking much like a Sunderland, but an airframe that I want to fit an Attopilot is coming together.

http://www.vimeo.com/4530514

Robert from flying wings has made this up and if its half as good as its little brother I will be very happy.

Waiting for the wind to drop for its maiden.

Airboatflyingshp

May 07, 2009, 02:07 PM

Hi Gary E mail me the details please but I will have to see ..I'm a carer for my father, I keep meaning to go to the walsall event but the proverbial always seems to get me. Id like to attend the BIMBOS meet. british Ivan pettigrew Models etc but thing are not going my way at the moment.

spitfiremk9

May 09, 2009, 02:23 PM

Airboatflyingshp

May 09, 2009, 02:52 PM

Spit look here http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1000758

Gary Mortimer

May 10, 2009, 05:21 PM

It flew!!

Praise be.

http://www.vimeo.com/4578648

Airboatflyingshp

May 10, 2009, 07:25 PM

Seemed to fly very smoothly well done mate.

Gary Mortimer

May 23, 2009, 10:36 AM

Well we were loading it.

And Robert broke it!!

No wing came off, we have recovered bulk, but i trudged around oil seed rape looking for wing tip, no joy.

launched smaller airframe with camera pointing down, attached with rubber bands.

Have seen the offender on video.

Will go and get it now en route to work.

I have compared it to a Goog earth image and am so confident I have even put the believed position on my GPS. Trust me this crop is about chest height!!

Right must go so i'm not late for work later!!

Have a few seconds of video but that will have to be sorted later.

Gary Mortimer

May 25, 2009, 10:27 PM

And the part rescue went as follows.....

http://www.vimeo.com/4836861

airmcn_3

May 25, 2009, 10:39 PM

And the part rescue went as follows.....

http://www.vimeo.com/4836861

Great Job Gary!

Gary Mortimer

Jun 15, 2009, 01:24 PM

So the small airframe, airframe1 has completed 100 hours!!

I'm having a tin of Irish champagne to celebrate.

So the same motor/esc/battery made it to 100

Two servo replacements, both due to my mishandling.

Not bad I reckon.

All of this flying under RC, but I am now very confident of what it can lift and what it can fly in.

Gary Mortimer

Jul 12, 2009, 12:42 PM

The version 2 of Airframe 3 has flown several times now, most notably at the SCRAPS RCAP09 meet last weekend at Leamington Spa. Mucho fun.

Today I flew it in a steady 16kt gusting, which I must admit worked but was not entirely pleasant.

Moving ever forward.

Gary Mortimer

Jul 25, 2009, 10:46 AM

Some more test flying

http://www.vimeo.com/5758244

Airboatflyingshp

Jul 29, 2009, 08:16 AM

Gary check out the evolution of a motor glider Don quixoti ..... S3 is looking good unlike the present weather.

Gary Mortimer

Jul 29, 2009, 12:05 PM

Have you got a link at all mate??

Airboatflyingshp

Jul 29, 2009, 02:12 PM

Two links here Gary http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=819918&page=2 above the ogar :) have you seen a light plane called the Vulcan? http://www.fpna.com/lsa.htm http://www.dreamwings.co.za/Other_aircraft/a36.htm
Dont forget the old Twin speedy as a layout but larger ??? http://www.modelflying.co.uk/news/article.asp?a=1972

Just found this http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rcrevue.cz%2Fobjednejte-si%2Fplanky

workshop

Jul 30, 2009, 11:08 AM

Gary,

I can't begin to tell you how much fun that search and rescue video was to watch. The excitement of finding a plane near the last reported GPS coordinates is a unique and wonderful experience.

BTW, you don't look a thing like you avatar! :D

Jeff

Gary Mortimer

Jul 30, 2009, 11:53 AM

Airship, in lots of ways I hate your links because they just make me want to own these things!! There certainly are some fine airframes out there.

Jeff, I could'nt believe it when that wing part was exactly where advertised!!

Now the field is showing the year passing, that fields been cut and cleared.

Getting closer to me flying south and back to a flying field right outside my door!

Airboatflyingshp

Jul 30, 2009, 05:23 PM

the last link was supposed to be to the Straton D8 Moby Dick motor glider http://209.85.227.132/translate_c?hl=en&u=http://www.rcrevue.cz/objednejte-si/planky%26page%3D40%26planek%3Dstraton-d-8-moby-dick%255B77%255D&rurl=translate.google.com&usg=ALkJrhgBN8EWi1Q74OGuxPe8EIFGatvBQQ

The interesting thing is the evolution of the Don Quixote shape and that BAE gas turbine UAV version.

Don't bet on that Jeff he's an Ardmann fan.......a few pints of Old Peculiar and its probably a case of the Ware-rabbit meets the Wrong trousers............. ;) :D :D :D

Gary Mortimer

Jul 30, 2009, 05:56 PM

Your so right airship....

Funnily enough I saw some balsa yesterday and thought oh I'd like a project and I think you just supplied the plans!!

Back from yet more test flying, not long and this field of corn will be gone!

Airboatflyingshp

Jul 31, 2009, 07:57 AM

Nice photos Gary....... if your airframe continues to evolve it will look more like the DQs??
I have a DQ plan and construction article its for the slab sided one if your interested at any time E mail me your addy.

Someone always has to go that bit bigger see the Easystar I wonder what the payload would be????? http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1020136&page=6

How stiff is that tail boom Btw.? Need to recap.

Gary you might want to look at this guys work Bex in Spad http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=969144

http://www.theakstons.co.uk/ales/classics/oldpeculier.html what it doesn't tell you is that it paralyzes the participants mouth, brain and legs on contact with fresh air ;) and interestingly side effect - a lasting desire to secret bits of straw out ones person :rolleyes: :D :D or was that Owd Rodger :rolleyes: http://users.jyu.fi/~mweber/blog/images/Owd_Rodger.jpg probably :o

Gary a definition?.............. to be BeFuggled :p

Gary Mortimer

Sep 03, 2009, 03:49 AM

Oh had'nt seen that post airship, tail boom stiffness is an issue, there is a spar and flat plastic strengtheners in there but we think that it does flex in flight and maybe also the tops of the vtails are flexing under power.

Heres a little video clip I should have added.

http://www.vimeo.com/5758244

I had an Old Peculiar in your honour at the Three Locks, a pub on the Grand Union the other day, I had forgotten how nice it was!

Gary Mortimer

Sep 03, 2009, 03:57 AM

Heres yesterdays test result from my recently arrived AttoRTL, it should make taking images a shed load easier, it took me about 2 hours to install and get my head around. Then out for a very quick flight before the rain. Of course plagues of frogs set in now.

http://www.vimeo.com/6405361

The very cool thing is that Dean and Chris can further trim the autopilot from afar, I send the small TXT and LOG file to them and they can see what to tweak, make those adjustments, send back the file and I just put it on the microSD card that comes with the unit and it then uses those tweaks.

I will fly this setup a few more times and then move it over to, Voyager, the new smaller version of Airframe 3, easier to put in the car and now with the AttoRTL flying around photo subjects clicking away.

Gary Mortimer

Sep 03, 2009, 06:15 AM

Quick GCS shot showing a none too efficient setup power wise

bcuervo

Sep 03, 2009, 08:29 AM

Gary,
I really enjoyed your "Dance of Joy" video! I liked the high speed plane/people framed by the slow moving clouds and music. Quite the work of art.

Gary Mortimer

Sep 03, 2009, 11:46 AM

Thanks, it seemed to fit the bill!

airmcn_3

Sep 03, 2009, 12:30 PM

Thanks, it seemed to fit the bill!

Almost looked like the "I'm Too Sexy" dance from Right Said Fred.... Nice!!!

Glad to see another happy Atto user.

Chris

Airboatflyingshp

Sep 03, 2009, 06:00 PM

Oh hadn't seen that post airship, tail boom stiffness is an issue,

I had an Old Peculiar in your honour at the Three Locks, a pub on the Grand Union the other day, I had forgotten how nice it was!

;) Appreciated ............my fathers back in hospital again and I'm considering cloning myself to try to be in three places at once several times a day, did you get the Sky-kitten link? :cool:

Gary Mortimer

Sep 03, 2009, 06:02 PM

Oh dear, sorry to hear that.

I did get the sky kitten link thanks.

Best of luck with it all, difficult times.

Gary Mortimer

Nov 10, 2009, 01:53 PM

I have made several flights now and am getting my wing from http://www.flyingwings.co.uk nicely tuned now. Takes some getting used too with take off 5000' above the last testing point and the temp being somewhat greater, it was 38 on the day I took the photo below and I was even higher up!

Gray

Nov 10, 2009, 02:11 PM

Hi Gary,
Good to hear from you, love the Zulu war dance of victory!!:D

Cheers for now,

Gray.:)

Gary Mortimer

Nov 10, 2009, 02:12 PM

Aha you spotted it Gray!! Time to organise the next meet me thinks, highlight of last summer for me.

I hope you and the SCRAPS crowd are all well.

Gary Mortimer

Nov 11, 2009, 01:25 PM

Stunning sky whilst flying today

Going well, finally getting the airframe sorted out, I have trimmed the elevons physically and reduced the throws, Rob was right, I was yanking and banking way too much in manual flight.The wing was orgionally designed for slow speed soaring, I was asking a bit of it

Flying around and recording the data was the way to find efficient speeds.

I have also slowed the airframe right down, cruising at 55kmh at 3 to 8A minimum speed of 47kmh now, thats somewhat less than the 80kmh that I was flying at!! That obviously has helped with the power used.

The other thing I did was map a three position switch on my JR PCM 9xII to allow Manual Assisted RC and Auto.

That was not as simple as I thought.

In brief I extended the throws of the switch to maximum either way and that allowed Manual and Auto, then again within the adjustment menu with the switch set in its centre position I used the sub trim to make that position ARC, assisted RC.

Just come in from two early morning flights and the temperature is rising fast so I think performance will change.

I did wonder if the Atto airspeed indication is adjusted for altitude, IAS will be slightly less than sea level at 5000' and I don't have my E6B here or a memory that can tell me how much it changes!

The number of sats that I see really does change dramatically at the minute and as soon as I get to some decent internet I will download the program Tiaan sent a link for and use it to assess the most accurate time of day to fly.

So now bar a couple of PID changes its heads down for ten hours of automous flight until I add the camera.

Thats always something I like to do for my own piece of mind.

My only concern at the moment based on experience of the few flights I have done so far is that birds of prey are attracted like a moth to a flame to the Manta EPP. I have been joined by yellow billed kites and jackal buzzards on just about every flight. I'm dreading a vulture coming and having a go.