Latest from VV Models: the ASCOT F3B

[guillaume83]

Hi all,

after a long wait, here it is! My new model is arriving this WE!! :D

I'm receiving an ASCOT in its F3B version...3195mm span, 1500mm long....more info (& videos) on www.f3x.eu

I will be taking more detailed pictures when I get it and you'll find them all on www.planet-soaring in due time.

In the meantime, here are a few shots of it. Note it was not fully finished at this stage...

I am going to use this one for F3B and maybe local F3F comps. I should have posted in the thermal section but somehow,I felt an F3B model would get more success here :rolleyes:

What's going in it? 4 Volz Wing Maxx in the wing, 2 MPX Micro Speed digi in the fuse,a Schulze Alpha 8.40W & 4 IB 2000 cells (AA size).

I believe www.soaringusa.com should be stocking those in the US as they recently started stocking VV Models.

I read somewhere that Vaclav Vojtisek, the boss of VV Models, is concentrating on building the Ascot while the moulds for the other models in his range (Viking, Sting.....) have been left to someone else for production.

Enjoy!

Guillaume

[chetosmachine]

C'est un planeur avec un look super!!!
When you receive it, please share lots of photos with us!
As you said, Vaclav only works on the Ascot, while his long term helpers keep working the rest of VV models.
Salut!

[djklein21]

Tib Bigley raves about this wing. He was able to purchase a wing set that was modified to fit a Viking fuselage. He said it turned harder than any plane he has ever flown. The one striking observation I had about the wing was the size of the root chord.

I am very interested to see this model in F3b. Please post your results as to how the model performs.
Launch hieght?
Speed?
Thermal?
Distance?

Thank You for the news,
David Klein

[guillaume83]

Hi guys,

I've been flying a single carbon Pike Brio in F3B so far, and not with great results (lack of practice I guess) :rolleyes:

So I'll only be able to compare it to what I've flown.

The 1st F3B comp is mid-April I think, and I intend to take part to 5 comps this year. There is a big F3B activity around Toulouse and I'm lucky enough to know most of the top F3B fliers so I'm hoping to get their thoughts on the Ascot ;) and maybe a bit of help with the setting :rolleyes: :)

2 DIAVOLOs are also arriving this WE :D (it's the latest model fom the producers of the Estrella).

Guillaume

[DrFragnasty]

Hi Guillame,

Nice glider. I'm a bit jealous. I see it has a "special" aerofoil ;0)

The model you've bought (and the Diavolo) will likely all feature at the impending World F3B in Switzerland:

http://www.f3b-wm.ch/

(official website...err...in Swiss with no translation....mmmm)


Chris.

[guillaume83]

I see it has a "special" aerofoil

Yes, not sure what the wing section is but it's a thin one: 10mm servos max fit in the wing for the ailerons & 12mm max on the flaps...hence the purchase of the Volz Wing Maxx (I could have done with some cheaper servos)

The model you've bought (and the Diavolo) will likely all feature at the impending World F3B in Switzerland

I'm not aware of the Ascot being a popular choice for F3B right now, it is rather unknown actually...for now maybe :rolleyes: :p

One of the 2 DIAVOLOs is for the French F3B champion so yes,this one will be going to the World Champs.I'm sure there will be plenty of other DIAVOLOs too.

Ich spreche auch Deutsch, aber nur ein bischen ;) Ich verstehe nicht alles aber es ist genug gut, eine Satz global zu verstehen.

Guillaume

[doddlepots]

C'est un planeur avec un look super!!!



Tout-à-fait!

J'en veux!

Does it fly?

Cheers,

Christopher

[Bro]

Guillaume:
Sweeeet!
You got yours before me! I am jealous!
The wait is long, but probably worth it... ;)

Meanwhile, we have Stings, and Vikings while they last! :p

Congrats a that beautiful airframe!

Best wishes,
Bob

[infopimp]

Was wondering when the shoe would drop on this. Bookmarking this thread.

[MattyB]

Don't get too excited gentlemen. It's an awesome bit of kit, but I'm fairly certain I read in the latest RCM&E (Mr. Trash's column) that the waitng list is already 35 weeks for the F3F version! :eek:

[infopimp]

35 weeks? That's nothing... ever ordered a DLG?

[guillaume83]

35 weeks? That's nothing... ever ordered a DLG?

Agreed...and the popular models like the Estrella or the Radical have waiting list of over a year!!

I just picked up my Ascot :D :p V-E-R-Y N-I-C-E!!!

Everything fits perfectly, it really looks fast...a friend of mine commented before that it looks like a big Aris,and indeed, I think it does :cool:

The level of finish is quite something too: the servo wires are already routed in the wing leading edge (yes, leading edge!), the horns are fitted on all moving surfaces.

Also worth mentioning is that the ballast tube is removable: when one unscrews the locking screw,the whole ballast tube can come out. In its rear part,it's locked in position with a pin made out of the kevlar from the tube....am not sure if this is to allow someone to fit it own ballast tube,but I quite like the idea of saving 40gr or so (I guess) for a duration task :D

Am busy all WE,sorry guys, no pictures, but those should follow soon on www.planet-soaring.com ;)

Incidently, I also picked up a VOODOO :D :D It's a small pylon racer!!! It feels like XMas :cool:

Guillaume

[Terminator]

Does the Ascot have a one piece veetail or is it like the Aris with a two piece affair?
The Vikings tail group is rather cumbersome traveling the airframe about... :rolleyes:

Alan

[guillaume83]

It's a one piece Vtail but I read on www.knewt.com that a 2 piece would be available as an option...not sure if this is the case.

OK,just took at teaser shot...ever seen a wing joiner this big? :D 112gr & rock solid!!!

It's for the Ascot of course, not the VOODOO in the background :rolleyes:

Guillaume

[Terminator]

Two Piece tails are indeed a good option...
Big Wing joiners are a good thing...
Kinda looks like the Viking and the Aris joiner...might be bigger kinda hard to tell..
Does the Ascot use this joiner for ballast or does it have a tube in the fuse...?


Alan

[guillaume83]

Does the Ascot use this joiner for ballast or does it have a tube in the fuse...?

I guess you didn't read post #12.

This said,the wing joiner could be used for additional ballast if needed.

Here are some shots of the 2nd Ascot F3B that arrived yesterday :p :cool: I had to keep this one a secret till today because my friend Sylvain who got it wanted it to be a surprise for his team mates :eek:

Sylvain now has an Aris F3B, an Estrella DP, a Victor F3B, a Diavolo, an Ascot F3B + his own model called Nirvana 2....so I guess we'll know how the Ascot compares to those models once he's flown it for a bit :D

Guillaume

[doddlepots]

What does Sylvain do for a living?

C.

[target]

I wonder when these will be available for import to the USA?
I want a new F3F plane!

Target

[guillaume83]

I wonder when these will be available for import to the USA?

I do not know but I hope for you a US dealer placed an order early enough to be delivered soon...indeed, waiting time is not 35 weeks as stated earlier but it's looking like over a year at the moment! So I'm told.

Someone started posting some pictures on RC Network (http://www.rc-network.de/forum/showthread.php?t=66115)

My weights are very very similar to his

Guillaume

[target]

I heard that the wait was 18 months from a guy that should know over here!

T

[guillaume83]

Hi all,

Sylvain's Ascot flew yesterday...he started the day with his Diavolo, of which you can see a few shots on the F3B france (http://blog.f3bfrance.com/) blog.

AUW is at 2200gr and the wings are rock solid apparently...not sure if this justifies its price but it does make you feel good :rolleyes: :D

It flew superbly apparently (I was not at the field yesterday as my Ascot build got stopped by a brand new Volz Wing Maxx letting me down :confused: ). It was very windy at the field and the Diavolo did not seem to care.

After 3-4 flights on it, Sylvain decided to maiden the Ascot too. With the CG at 105mm, AUW came to 2295gr. With no settings available (new model), he programmed similar ones to that of his Estrealla DP.

One of the concerns we had at first was the strength of the Ascot's wings....well,it was not so much that Sylvain & I were worried about them but people around us were....were the Ascot wings going to be strong enough to sustain a full F3B launch?

I think the 1st launch pretty much proved this point: the Ascot got off the line and did a VERY tight looping (1m diameter I'm told :rolleyes: ) and the wings REMAINED straight!!! Not a sign of bending, nothing!! And this was a very hard manoeuvre!! I think Sylvain put way too much throw on the Vtail hence the failed attempt to launch, this combined with the speed of the MPX Micro Speed digi servos....he got surprised :p

Like I said, Sylvain & I were never worried about the strength of the wings :p
(I think people have not seen many models from VV Models fly in F3B hence their concern, but I know some guys have been having a go at it with Sting/New Sting/Viking even though not the majority....hopefully, this will change with the Ascot :cool: )

About the flight characteristics, not much to say apart that it's as good as one could have hoped for!! It felt right straight away and Sylvain felt as he had flown it forever. It was very good in speed with good penetration in yesterday's heavy winds and its thermal capability seemed very good to.

All together, the Ascot is VERY promising for F3B just like we hoped. The conditions were not ideal yesterday but it already felt like a very capable plane. Sylvain flew with it all afternoon and when he wanted to switch back to the Diavolo, he was greeted with a JR DS 168 not wanting to work!

If it stops raining today, they will get some more flying done at the field (Diavolo fitted out with a new DS 168!).

I know they took a few pictures but the light was not great...if they're OK,I'll post some here.

Guillaume

[rumbey]

What servos are you using for Flaps and Vtail?

I'm due to get mine sometime in May

Dave

[guillaume83]

What servos are you using for Flaps and Vtail?

Dave,

did you read my text??? :confused:

That said, I would not advise S3155 on the ailerons. The torque seems a bit low (especially since it's the one given by Futaba and it's likely over-rated).Pierre Rondel uses them for the Vtail of his Crossfire V in the French F3F league so they'd be best there.

Sylvain managed to fit some 13mm servos on the flaps (DS 3068) so you could look that way too.

For the ailerons, 10mm are the way to go....really not much space in there.

MPX Micro Speed digis are fine in the fuse but will not fit side by side (ask how I know :rolleyes: ).

Guillaume

[rumbey]

Hi Guillaume,


I did see Sylvain's setup and your wing setup, I assume you will be using the same?

Whats the next best to Volz (bit too pricey!) for ailerons?

What's the width of the fuz then? I really want to keep the servos side by side

Looking forward to getting mine next month if all goes to plan :)

Dave

[guillaume83]

I did see Sylvain's setup and your wing setup, I assume you will be using the same?

You are confusing me. I don't think you read what I wrote (seen in post #1):

What's going in it? 4 Volz Wing Maxx in the wing, 2 MPX Micro Speed digi in the fuse,a Schulze Alpha 8.40W & 4 IB 2000 cells (AA size).

Whats the next best to Volz (bit too pricey!) for ailerons?
What's the width of the fuz then? I really want to keep the servos side by side

Good question on the 10mm servos....2 C3241 or 2 DS3781 fit side by side, the MPX Micro Speed digis are too deep (they physically fit side by side but their depth forces you to have them higher, which is why they don't fit)....2 DS368 or 2 S3155 should be fine side by side.

Guillaume

[guillaume83]

Since I haven't had time to take any shot of my Ascot & the build is half finished (maybe a bit more :cool: ), here are a few shots of Sylvain's Ascot at the field....not much light that day so please forgive the quality.

I'm also posting a shot of Sylvain's fuse installation compared to mine....you might wonder why my "hole" is so big compared to Sylvain's....in fact,I was first lent 2 Graupner C3241 so I cut the proper shape in the nosecone thinking the Micro Speed digis would be a drop-in...BIG MISTAKE. They do not fit side by side as explained above so I had to review the servo arrangement.

I was not too keen on Sylvain's arrangement so I put one Micro Speed in front on the other on a 6mm plywood tray...I will be finishing it nicely with some carbon on the top.

Guillaume

[rumbey]

Can you confirm the max thickness servo that will fit in the wings please

I've seen these Airtronics 94761Z dimensions 27mmx12mmx30mm

[guillaume83]

Dave,

VV Models says 10mm max on the ailerons & 12mm max in the flaps (again, this was written in post #6! Please read what I write before asking a question that's already been answered in the thread!I don't intend to say everything twice!)

However,I know Sylvain fitted some DS3068 on his flaps (13mm). For the ailerons,he's got some Hitec HS5125MGs.I haven't seen how his DS3068 fit though, but they should be pretty much flush.

On the ailerons,after trial-fitting my Volz Wing Maxx, I can tell you that 10mm is preferable. The Wing Maxx is going to be just about flush on the trailing-edge side....so I cannot say if a S3150 will fit nicely since it's given for 10.8mm....one cannot know until one tries anyway so the choice is up to you!!

Guillaume

[guillaume83]

Here is a shot of the fuse after a carbon treatment :D

I'm much happier with the looks of it, it's closer to my usual standards of finish :cool:

The fuse will be finished after I opened-up the hole for the servos in the carbon....only thing left is gluing the servos in the wing and adjusting the rods.

Guillaume

[guillaume83]

On this shot, you can see how the 2 MPX Micro Speed digis fit.

Needless to say I'm VERY happy with the carbon looks :p

The Rx is only there temporarily, it should fit just about between the front servo and the Rx pack.
A Schulze Alpha 8.40S would have been more suited and I might get one later on.

Problem with the 8.40W if located in line with the Rx pack is that the Xtals will be hard to change if needed (most likely in a competition).

Guillaume

[rumbey]

Its getting there Guillaume!

I'm looking at buying the Airtronics 94761 / Sanwa 762 to go in the fuz. They are just under 12mm wide x 27mm deep. Will they fit side by side?

Dave

[guillaume83]

Dave,

those should fit easily. The DS3781 are 27mm deep & 15mm wide and they fit side by side.

Maiden is planned off the bungee for Friday :D :cool:

Guillaume

[chetosmachine]

Maiden is planned off the bungee for Friday :D :cool:

GO! GO! GO! GO! GO! GO! GO! GO! GO! GO! GO!

Then tell us what you think about it :)
A+,
Chets

[guillaume83]

For those who don't follow the "Which F3F" thread, I mentioned on there that a fellow modeller assembled his Ascot with 4 S3150 in the wing (with some servo frames from Servo Rahmen (www.servorahmen.de) )....so it seems this size servo also fits in the ailerons.

Anyway, my Ascot is 99% finished with only the CG & throws left to do...so it's all looking good for Friday, even the weather seems to be in favour of a maiden flight :D :cool:

I have to say the Volz Wing Maxx hardly have any slope!!! I've never seen so tight linkages!!

I cleaned the wings since I'm done with the mess and it reminded me how B-E-A-U-T-I-F-U-L-L-Y made they are!! Instead of the usual balsa wood we can find on the part linking the top skin to the bottom skin, just forward of the ailerons'leading edge, VV Models used some carbon!! Nice but mainly STIFF!! Can't wait to see how the model behaves in the air :p

Guillaume

[guillaume83]

Hi all,

some pictures are up on www.planet-soaring.com

I just spent 2 days flying F3B at a contest organised in Faudoas near Toulouse.

Yesterday, we flew 1 round as well as 1 round today (we started flying very late due to fog limiting the flying height).

I flew the Ascot off the bungee last week and only logged 3 flights....and didn't have much fun to be honnest. This is because I changed Tx (& moved from MPX to Graupner at the same time) and did not know it at all, so I had no programmed the correct mixes...no camber, no down trim for launch (no flight phases...) So I did not go high and I could not work the thermals like I wanted....anyway,it already seemed quite easy to handle.

In the week preceeding the competition.needless to say I read the Tx manual :D and asked around for any programming tricks.

So I was more prepared for the comp but still had not done a single launch off the winch.

I think I got 1 (maybe 2) launches before the comp Saturday so I programmed it a bit.

Over the 2 days, I can say the Ascot performed very well in Duration. I never got the 10mins but I was never too far off the 1st in my group....in fact,I even got 1000 points today thanks to my "accurate" landing (against a Supersonic & a Furio V). It felt very easy to handly and I feel a big potential here.

In the distance, I never performed as good!! I flew a Pike Brio carbon in the 3 comps I did last year and never managed many laps, but I did fairly well considering the conditions at Faudoas!Today,I was only 1 lap behind the 1st of my group (Supersonic),but I should have had that lap if it wasn't for a misunderstanding with my helper!

In speed, I scored my best time today & 1st time under the 22s!! I think I did around 21.5s...with the Brio, I never did under 22.5s (in better conditions).

I was flying with full ballast in speed (around 900gr) & around 330gr in distance.

All together, I haven't spent much time setting up the model to my liking but I did a fair result in the comp, in fact,I never did so well in a comp :D

I finished 9th out of 18 (but some guys only flew today so they couldn't hope for better than 12th/13th).

I am VERY pleased with the Ascot and I think it is very promising for F3B. It always got a fair height and did not seem to lose more height than other models, on the contrary in fact. Needless to say I will spend more time setting it up properly so I can hope for better times in the various tasks, but I really enjoyed those 2 days.
Thanks to the organisers and all the helpers who made it possible.

Guillaume

[chetosmachine]

So, you are getting better results with this, new to you plane, than with your old pike...... you should be tres content! That means you moved to a better plane ;)
I hope you enjoy it fot long and have a lot of fun.
A+,
Chets

[jofo1]

Any updates????

[guillaume83]

Hi all,

I've been busy writing a review for the french mag RC Pilot, and it should be availbale in the July or August issue...we did an evening's photo shoot and got some most excellent shot of it airborne but I cannot post them here till the review has been published.

I used the Ascot on 3 different occasions so far (i.e. comps).

The 1st one I already talked about above.

For the 2nd comp, I moved the CG forward to 102mm and also moulded some lead to the nose's shape...this along with the use of smaller Rx cells (4 GP 1300) allowed me to put the Schulze receiver fully "burried" in the nose rather than on the top as seen in the pictures here. In the process, I must have saved 10/15gr (lead much more forward than it was) and AUW is now 2310gr.

Anyway, what was the effect on the flight? it felt much more comfortable in Duration. It did not tend to stall at the end of a turn like it did before. Problem is the only training I got before the comp was on a VERY windy day and the flaps were not quite set up for the launch....so my launches could have been much better on this 2nd F3B comp (CAUSSADE). In Distance & Speed, I also flew better because I started to know the Ascot better....I beat (again) my Speed record with a 21.xx or 20.xx secs...I can't remember (please don't laugh :rolleyes: ).On the last Speed, I wanted to try and use some negative camber so I did (0.5mm)....I did not fly well but it felt like the Ascot wanted to accelerate more than usual....granted I would fly the Ascot with negative camber in Speed from now on :D After the windy training session, I also found that it was turning tighter with less Snap Flap than I had been using...so I lowered the value to 3mm at full elevator throw.
I did not score any GREAT result during this comp but I was consistent and finished 6th out of 13....my best position ever :cool:

3rd comp in MONTAUBAN. Again, I modified some settings on the Ascot but did not fly in between....it was a very sunny day with 18 pilots on the field. Again, I could have set up the Ascot better for launch,but it was climbing well and gaining a good height, not far from others...I just wish I could have got that little extra height :rolleyes: As usual, the morning Duration task was hard to complete...but one thing is for sure, the Ascot is a great performer in this task and I managed the 10mins with 85pts on landing in a hard group :D I really love the Ascot in this task, it outperforms many models and it's not sset up quite right yet (I have 3mm of down camber for the moment).In Distance,I flew with 5 ballasts as usual (340gr) but on the last distance,I chose to go for 7 ballasts (475gr or so) and beat my lap record hands down (23 laps) :D I also scored 1000 pts but there was some misunderstanding with some of the other competitors so it looks like I got lucky :eek:
In Speed, I did not fly perfectly (weird trajectories) but managed to fly a 19.xx secs (19.89s I think) :D In the 2nd round, I was very motivated but my time in the task was not as good...I did not fly great (to say the least). Last task (Duration), last round, I come in to land,conditions were very poor so everyone managed 5mins only or so, I was doing alright compared to others,but I use the Butterfly too late,landing is going to be a long one, I want to get some landing points so I attempt an F3J-style landing (nose in the ground)...stupid as I am I stayed IN FRONT of the target, the nose slips on the ground and the Ascot stops...right on my foot :( Therefore I get 0 pts for landing.

I have some cosmetic damage on the leading edge of the wing, which is already repaired (thinned resin) but it's annoying when you know it's the last flight with no comp till September....

Next I want to correctly set up the Ascot for launch (hook is about 2mm in front of the CG and this is way too conservative).
Then I want to try more negative camber for Speed (1mm then 1.5mm).
With a bit more throw on the ailerons as well as the elevator (I only used +/-8mm so far).

By the way, forgot to mention I like my Ascot so much I have a 2nd one coming...won't be for a while but it's coming :cool: ....I already have all the gear for it: 2 JR Z3650 (= Graupner DS3781) in the fuse,Wing Maxx HP on the flaps and Wing Maxx on the ailerons.

I got the info from VV Models that all the fuses should be available with the new fuse shortly, i.e. with a 2-piece Vtail...and the icing on the cake is that AUW should be around 2.2 Kg.

Finally, don't forget to have a look at www.lomcovak.cz (English version) who posted a very interesting way on installing the servos in the fuse of his Ascot

Guillaume

[guillaume83]

Hi all,

I have not had much time to fly with the Ascot since the last comp because of issues with my MC 24 Tx :(

The Ascot is receiving a new fuse with 2 piece Vtail, pictures of which you'll find below.Pictures are courtesy of VV Models.

Guillaume

[Robbieuk]

Come on Rumbey, wheres the pics. of your new Ascot then?? seeing as i delivered it yesterday. :cool: lovely looking with all the new mods.

[guillaume83]

Hi all,

here it is...my new Ascot F3B :D picked up today at the F3F Eurotour in Quillan/St Ferriol (they validated 3.5 rounds yesterday but today was a no-flying day, no wind at all !! :( luckily, the weather was great !!

Much more has changed in the Ascot than expected. The fuse is whole new of course, Vaclav stopped production for 2 months just to develop this new fuse!! It feels SOOO light and looks G-R-E-A-T!! It's got carbon starting just aft of the cabin, the whole nose being made of fibreglass ...should withstand well those heavy landings :D
The Vtail is made of 2 piece and the section has been changed. The Ascot turns much tighter with it apparently (not that it needed to :rolleyes: ). There is a little cover going onto the rear of the fuse, a bit like on the Radical/Freestyler. I like it :D

The wing is more rigid than before. Vaclav also added a 25gr fibreglass layer on the outer layer to resist to those landing scratches better...all that for only 15gr overall penalty.

The wing joiner is about 10gr lighter than before for the same stiffness thanks to a new construction technique (he sort of compresses it). The ballast goes into the joiner now.

The ballast should weigh about 1.6Kg I'm told....nice :D :cool: even the wing covers have been improved and feel much more up to the job :)

Here are the various weights:

Wing joiner: 93.1 gr
Left wing: 693 gr
Right wing: 692 gr
Fuse (inc. Vtail joiners): 288.2 gr
Left Vtail: 45.1 gr
Right Vtail: 44.7 gr
Ballast: 1554gr

Hence an empty weight of 1856.1 gr.

All together, the new version has got a lot of improvements and is looking very promising. Vaclav is a very kind (& skilled) person. Finish is top-notch as usual. I love my colour scheme, very unusual and should be visible from the ground.

And no, you are not seeing double, I also brought back a Vaclav's own double carbon Ascot which was for sale...it's the old fuse but with new Vtail (2 piece made into 1 piece) and it is for my friend Sylvain who just did not have enough of 1 Ascot :rolleyes:

Guillaume

[cvanscho]

WOW! Stunning machines! Love that white/black colour scheme.

I'm the same colour now as your fuselage!

Chris

[guillaume83]

Started the (slow) build over the WE.

Tray is made of 8mm birchwood + a carbon layer on top (for looks only :cool: , not really needed)

Servos are JR Z3650, same size/(much) faster than the 3421 also known as Graupner DS3781 in Europe and used by most F3F/B competitors.

The nose is sooo long, it's been a while I saw a fuse with so much Rx + battery room :rolleyes: :D

Guillaume

[knewt]

Managed to squeeze a ballast tube in the new fuz.

Kevin

http://www.f3f.co.uk/knewt/Ascot/Ascot1/index.htm

[jofo1]

Yep, she looks the part for sure.

[guillaume83]

Hi Kevin

nice (tidy :rolleyes: ) workshop you have there ;) it sure is an improvement compared to the previous one.

Seems your Short Viking is collecting the dust on the side :p

Would you have the individual weights of the various components by any chance?

Guillaume

[Bro]

Kevin;
nice install, and cool finish! You won't miss that in the air! ;)

WE now have these fine models in stock too! (not on site yet) :rolleyes:
A special thanks to Vaclav for an A+ finish!

Best wishes,
Bob

[djklein21]

Nice, it feels like those were a long time coming. I look forward to seeing one rip it up locally.

[tewatson]

I fondled one while visiting Bob to pick up my second Ceres...looks like excellent build quality and the two-piece V is always a nice touch.

Tom

[knewt]

Hi Kevin

nice (tidy :rolleyes: ) workshop you have there ;) it sure is an improvement compared to the previous one.

Seems your Short Viking is collecting the dust on the side :p

Would you have the individual weights of the various components by any chance?

Guillaume

The previous workshop had more character ;)

I was going to sell the short Viking but I flew it again the other day and she was gorgeous, so now I just can't decide :confused:

Sorry, no weights for the Ascot.

Cheers

K
www.knewt.com

[isoaritfirst]

The next thread up says that theres a 8 month wait for an Ascot : )

[timmig]

After inspecting the Ascot at SUSA-- I couldn't stop myself from picking one up!! Beautiful plane and two piece V-tail is great! Can't wait to get it in the air for F3F/B competition. I think I'll add a ballast tube like Kevin Newton did--that with the new ballast in the wing and the joiner-- I should be able to add as much as 6lbs of ballast. That will get me close to the maximum 11lb weight for MOM racing too!!
Nice looking plane--
Tim

[guillaume83]

Excellent choice Timmig !!

You will not regret it for sure !!

I will be getting another Ascot F3B at some point and it might be a very special version !!
My mate should get his for Sinsheim and his tests on this special version will help me decide whether I should get the same or not...more details in a couple of months :rolleyes:

Guillaume

[timmig]

Hey--- YOu guys that are flying the Ascot---where is your favorite CG location? I'm thinking to put a ballast tube in the fuse, and use weight in the joiner for ballast. So,
location is important.
Thanks
Tim

[guillaume83]

Hi Timmig,

using the wing joiner for ballast is what we did on the 1st versions of the Ascot which could carry a "limited" amount of ballast in the fuse (800gr or so, not much for F3B).

My mate and I both started at 105mm or so, but it was too aft for us so I ended up at 102mm and Sylvain about the same (maybe 103mm)

Don't you have any pictures of your Ascot ? :D

Guillaume

[Andy_b]

mines at 103 but its early days yet


:D
Andy.

[Doc Holiday48]

Hey--- YOu guys that are flying the Ascot---where is your favorite CG location? I'm thinking to put a ballast tube in the fuse, and use weight in the joiner for ballast. So,
location is important.
Thanks
Tim
Tim, The Ascot setup sheet you loaned me says, 101-103mm. I will scan and send to you by tomorrow so you have a copy.

Bob

[guillaume83]

Today at a local F3F comp, 3 Ascot showed up :D ...those are becoming a common sight :eek: :rolleyes: No wonder, they fly great !!

2 of them are Vaclav's old ones. Actually, it seems Vaclav adds up to 55gr in the nose in cross-winds at the slope. The owner of the orange Ascot added about 30gr and it seemed to work well, but that didn't help getting in front of me :p

Guillaume

[chetosmachine]

I see you also buy the Tx in 3-packs! :p

[timmig]

Sweet--- we're working on creating a mold for lead ballast to go in the joiner tubes and the wing ballast tubes. I"m also going to put a tube in my fuse as I've decided to concentrate on F3F not F3B. Should be able to get as much as 6.0 lbs with this set-up which will get me close to the AUW of 11lbs for Davenport type conditions.
Looking forward to getting this baby in the air.
Tim

[guillaume83]

I see you also buy the Tx in 3-packs! :p

No, only mine is an MX24s ;)

There are more pictures of the models here (http://c.jourde.free.fr/20080203_Cassoulet4emeManche/index.html) , both airborne and on the ground.

I like the Ascot group pictures towards the end :cool:

No ranking yet but at least 2 out of the 3 Ascot were in the top places I think. I was impressed by its tight turns and ability to come back from the downwind base with only 450gr of ballast and cross-winds.

[EDIT] The 3 Ascots finished in the Top 4 (2nd, 3rd & 4th) out of 14.

Guillaume

[isoaritfirst]

The last few F3f comps on th elong Mynd have had a few Ascots there as well.
Midland Lge 3 had 3 there, and they took 2nd (me) and 3rd.
Midland Lge 4 I won with the Ascot, both had very crossed conditions and i came away thinking that adding some more nose weight might help - then had my thoughts confirmed by this thread..
My CG is at 103mm
Pics are here
http://picasaweb.google.com/isoared
of the comps and several Ascot pics - mines the yellow/black one
Mike

[komar]

I would be interested in Ascot settings - control throws, flight phases etc.
Happy Ascot fliers, please, share your settings.

I hope, my Ascot (http://klubzdar.wz.cz/denicek/2008-01.html) will fly soon :-)

--Komar

[timmig]

Hey I've got a local machinest looking into building me ballast sets for my Ascot. THese will also fit inside the Viking joiner as well--as it's the same. Anyone interested in putting 3lbs in your plane in brass slugs? We could maybe make sets for about $75.00 + Shipping. FYI
Tim

[guillaume83]

I would be interested in Ascot settings - control throws, flight phases etc.

Dobry Den ;)

Very nice colour scheme Komar ! My forthcoming Ascot will have exactly the same underside :D Is yours an F3F layup?

I do not have all the throws in mind. I think I put roughly +/- 10mm on the elevator but started with +/-6mm because I found it too sensitive at first, until I got used to it....you need very little SnapFlap, 2 to 3mm max at full elevator throw.

Timmig,

to fit ballast in the wing joiner, just buy an aluminium bar and use it to mold the ballast...internal diameter must be around 11.5-12mm I think. You can also buy a square section steel bar of this size. It will not be very heavy but should do you for an intermediate weight.

For the wing, I have a square section 15mm tube (about 13.5mm inner size I guess) which seems to be perfect as a mold for wing ballast.

For my part, I already have the wing joiner ballast and am only trying to use the whole space of the wing ballast (I currently have a wing joiner ballast cut to size for the wing ballast, hence loose in there).

Hope this helps,

Guillaume

[timmig]

Yes the wing ballast hole is 13.5mm-- the joiner is 12mm-- so it takes two different sizes. With both sizes it gives a lot of adjustment-- which I like for F3F. I should be able to vary the loading from 0 to approximately 3.5lbs-- once we have a set done--I'll know exactly. The CG position is going to be near the back tube in the spar joiner-- with the wing ballast hole behind that, should be able to balance the CG around the various tubes. FWIW
T

[rumbey]

The last few F3f comps on th elong Mynd have had a few Ascots there as well.
Midland Lge 3 had 3 there, and they took 2nd (me) and 3rd.
Midland Lge 4 I won with the Ascot, both had very crossed conditions and i came away thinking that adding some more nose weight might help - then had my thoughts confirmed by this thread..
My CG is at 103mm
Pics are here
http://picasaweb.google.com/isoared
of the comps and several Ascot pics - mines the yellow/black one
Mike

I finished well down with my Ascot (1st comp) :confused: She just wasn't pinging out of the turns like I had hoped. I have since backed off on flap coupled to aileron throws + more differential and shes alot happier and so am I :)

Because of the larger wingspan I overdid the throws to compensate for the slower roll rate...WRONG .. just causes way too much drag. :eek:

She still needs flight time to tweak the best out of her, but I have to say flying a top model like this is a great experience.

Dave

[komar]

Dobry Den ;)

Very nice colour scheme Komar ! My forthcoming Ascot will have exactly the same underside :D Is yours an F3F layup?

I do not have all the throws in mind. I think I put roughly +/- 10mm on the elevator but started with +/-6mm because I found it too sensitive at first, until I got used to it....you need very little SnapFlap, 2 to 3mm max at full elevator throw.


Nice to see czech words :-)
Yes, I have F3F layup, as I don't fly F3B (yet?).
Thanks for your settigs. 10 mm on the elevator gives very little throws on elevator servos, doesn't it? How long are yours elevator servo arms?

[SpeedMaster]

Komar: A bit of topic: -The Furio fuse next to your Ascot in one of the pictures, is that the X-tail, or the 2-piece V-tail?

[komar]

Komar: A bit of topic: -The Furio fuse next to your Ascot in one of the pictures, is that the X-tail, or the 2-piece V-tail?
It's X-tail Furio. V-tail Furio fuse is a lot thinner.

[guillaume83]

Thanks for your settigs. 10 mm on the elevator gives very little throws on elevator servos, doesn't it? How long are yours elevator servo arms?

That's right, I am using the very 1st hole on the Graupner servo arm.

By the way, here are a few more settings:

- duration: +10/-4mm on the ailerons (measured at the root of the ailerons), +3mm of camber in calm conditions

- distance: +10/-5mm on the ailerons

- speed: not sure about the aileron differential (same as distance I think + some flaps to ailerons mix) but I put -0.5mm of camber.

Guillaume

[isoaritfirst]

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=LFrAG3JodpY

Here you go then - another chill out type video of Andy and me at Ashlett SE slope of the Long Mynd Shropshire - in little or no wind but lots of thermal from Church Stretton below.
Both of us are flying our VV Modells Ascots'.

Nice views of the Lawley and Caer Caradoc hills to the NE.

Mike

[rumbey]

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=LFrAG3JodpY

Here you go then - another chill out type video of Andy and me at Ashlett SE slope of the Long Mynd Shropshire - in little or no wind but lots of thermal from Church Stretton below.
Both of us are flying our VV Modells Ascots'.

Nice views of the Lawley and Caer Caradoc hills to the NE.

Mike

Great Soundtrack too (Air). So what's your overall impression of the Ascot then Mike?

[satinet]

what's the difference(s) between the f3f and f3b layups?

[isoaritfirst]

Ones laid at an incline the others flat.
But can't remember wich ones winch.

F3f is a harder shell. F3b is a stronger spar.

[target]

Ones laid at an incline the others flat.



Either way works for me....

Where's my wife? :eek:


T

[guillaume83]

Ones laid at an incline the others flat.
But can't remember wich ones winch.
F3f is a harder shell. F3b is a stronger spar.

Wasn't aware about that. I thought that the F3B version has UMS carbon unlike the F3F one.

Either way, the F3F version should be a bit heavier.

Guillaume

[satinet]

I was impressed with the short flight i saw of Andy B's. Looks lovely quality too.

[isoaritfirst]

ASCOT WINS MIDLAND LEAGUE and takes fastest time of the league.

Midland League 2007/8 Final positions

Congratulations to Graham Reed for another fine win in the final round of the Midland F3f league.
It was again very close at the finish.

Congratulations to me on winning the League, and Graham and Andy Burgoyne in finishing 2nd and 3rd.

Well what a cracking finish to a great series.

Here are some stats;

4 out of 5 comps completed
29 total competitors.
11 newbies amongst which Duncan Holor has placed consistently well and finished the league in a fine 5th place.
Justin Odell has also shown well in the final two comps.

46 x Rounds flown
L1 0 Flights
L2 72
L3 153
L4 128
L5 160
Total 513 flights flown (must be some kind of record.)

Final League best 3 from 4

Mike Evans 2998.04
Graham Reed 2986.91
Andy Burgoyne 2882.41

Fastest Time Mike Evans Ascot 36.77

Pictures here

http://picasaweb.google.com/isoared
-------------------------------------
Results here;

http://www.rc-soar.com/bmfa_league/comps/2007/midland/index.htm
------------------------------------



Very nice model -- thanks Vaclav

[rumbey]

Very nice model -- thanks Vaclav

Here, Here! Vaclav. What a totally awesome plane!

Now I've sort of tuned her in, I got a glimpse of what the Ascot can do. I'm just wondering what it would have been like with full lead ballast , rather than 2/3rd steel :)

Dave

[satinet]

yeah very quick. Seems to turn very well for a big plane.

the only down side i can see to the plane is having to take the wings off to re-ballast.

[rumbey]

yeah very quick. Seems to turn very well for a big plane.

the only down side i can see to the plane is having to take the wings off to re-ballast.

Yes that is the only downside.. But if thats the only one that's fine by me :)

[satinet]

well, it's certainly not much!

it's a very graceful plane and looks great in the air. I wasn't sure how fast it could be on an f3f course, but i think mike has proved that the answer to that is "very". Andy B had his going well too.

[rumbey]

well, it's certainly not much!

it's a very graceful plane and looks great in the air. I wasn't sure how fast it could be on an f3f course, but i think mike has proved that the answer to that is "very". Andy B had his going well too.

personally I feel its alot quicker than my thumbs at the moment and i didn't think i flew particularly well

[guillaume83]

the only down side i can see to the plane is having to take the wings off to re-ballast.

Most modern F3B planes have ballast in the wing to be honnest...I agree it's not the most convenient way to take the ballast in and out though :( but I like having big bars instead of the usual (many) slugs fitted in fuselages.

We will be receiving some Ascot F3B & F3F at the end of the month, they will be very special versions with some experimental modifications and could offer improved performance for F3F & F3B over the current version...more to follow when we get them ;)

but i think mike has proved that the answer to that is "very". Andy B had his going well too.
Seems you're forgetting Mark S ;) :rolleyes:

Guillaume

[guillaume83]

Ones laid at an incline the others flat.
But can't remember wich ones winch.
F3f is a harder shell. F3b is a stronger spar.

Seems I was wrong as both F3F & F3B versions have UHM carbon. Mike is right saying the F3F has a hard shell and this is fully true as 180gr carbon is being used vs. 80gr for the F3B version. Also, F3F versions have a reinforced nose to withstand those hard slope landings :rolleyes: you know what I mean ;)

On the "news side", since Vaclav tested his new model with the mods I can let the cat out: there is a short version of the Ascot being made now, I think it will make it to production as the performance seems quite promising. It spans at 3050mm vs. 3190mm for the standard Ascot. I'm naming it Short Ascot, not sure what the final name will be, and this is the version we'll be receiving in a month.
Basically, 7cm have been "cut" at the wing root of each wing half.

Another mod is a 1 degree joiner instead of the 2 degrees one....the 1 degree wing joiner is now provided as standard instead of the 2 degrees one. The Ascot goes better in Speed & Distance with that joiner apparently.

Finally, Vaclav slightly modified the wing section towards the TE of the bottom side, it is a bit flatter now and this part of the wing section is quite similar to a Ceres now apparently....nice :D

The team made several measurements and the results showed the Short Ascot turns even tighter now. I think the new 305cm version is a great news for both F3B & F3F.

Guillaume

[isoaritfirst]

SWSA last winter league 9/3/08

The 6 fastest times of the day posted by Ascots

2 x 31 Mark
1 x 32 Mike
1 x 34 Mike
2 x 35 Kev

Ascots rule ok -
I imagine the order book is filling almost as fast..

Not racing but if you didn't catch it the last time round;
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=LFrAG3JodpY

Mike

[target]

Finally, Vaclav slightly modified the wing section towards the TE of the bottom side, it is a bit flatter now and this part of the wing section is quite similar to a Ceres now apparently....nice :D

The team made several measurements and the results showed the Short Ascot turns even tighter now. I think the new 305cm version is a great news for both F3B & F3F.

Guillaume

Hmmm, my Ceres is already 3050mm, and already has the DP section; I think I'll keep that!
But, a buddy owes me a favor, so maybe I'll check out an Ascot if I can pry the Tx out of his hands!

Sounds promising.

Target

[timmig]

Since we already have the Ceres-why change the Ascot?? I think MORE span is better not less! The bigger the wing--the better.
The ASCOT IS DONE!!! Just balancing tonight and will maiden tomorrow. I'll start at 102mm CG and adjust from there. I like the looks of the plane--mine is Yellow top red bottoms--with stripes. Should be easy to see -- looking forward to tomorrow!!
ps--maidened the Ceres two nights ago--this baby is FAST!!! Even with camber on, it's faster than most of my other planes. It just wants to RUN!!
Now we'll see the difference with the Ascot-- bigger wing-- more lifting foil-- will be interesting.
More tomorow night!
Tim
And yes Target-- YOU can fly it!!

[guillaume83]

Since we already have the Ceres-why change the Ascot?? I think MORE span is better not less! The bigger the wing--the better.

I'm not sure I'm getting your comments: having the choice between a Short & a normal Ascot can only be good for the modeller. The Ascot is such an all-round model, shortening it should have little (hopefully) effect on the thermal performance.

The bigger the wing--the better: but for what purpose?

Let us know how you like yours ;)

Guillaume

[timmig]

Larger wing area--normally will be more efficient with higher wingloadings. Allows for greater speeds in straight line or crosswind conditions. We fly a lot of crosswinds--- higher wingloadings have the advantage if you don't give up any cornering capability.
Also, if the Ascot is performing well--why change the airfoil?? Larger wings also work better in light conditions-- again--higher wingloading for the same conditions allow greater speeds in light conditions for the most part.
Just an observation over time here in SoCal.
FWIW
Tim
I LOVE the Ascot and Ceres builds--very simple and efficient designs easy to set-up the radio gear. I"ve gone with HS85BB for ruddervators--JR368's for flaps and HS125's for the ailerons. Totally slop free tight controls completely hidden inside the wings! Nice engineering from the designers-- no need for "RDS" systems-- Target built my Ceres and changed out the pushrods with stronger/lighter carbon tubes supported with guides he inserted. The Ascot COMES WITH pre-guided carbon pushrods!! SWEET-- I've got brass bars made for the joiner--and the wing ballast-- in the Ascot for 3.2lbs of variable. The Ceres --Target installed a ballast tube to take my Trinity Tungsten ballast--3.2lbs there PLUS the wing ballast capability!! So this baby CAN get heavy if needed--(like at Davenport)!! Heading out today to maiden the Ascot and play with the Ceres!!
Tim

[satinet]

do you guys think the that size of f3f machines is going up? it seems like a lot of models are 2.9-3.2m at the moment. Traditionally i thought 2.5 to 3m was f3f size. and say 3 - 3.2m for f3b with f3j bigger again.

the 3.2m ascot certainly turns well. It will be interesting to see how the shot Ascot does in f3f http://f3x.eu/Ascot_s.htm

decisions.......

[timmig]

If you've ever seen Kyle Paulsen fly Darryl Perkins Skizo-- you'd see a plane very capable of turning VERY hard--and a nearly 3.45 meter wingspan!!! It's an F3B design-- I've got one and will be building it soon--(Target) that is!! And I've flown Darryl's-- and even with the large wing--it's VERY NIMBLE on the sticks!!! So I'm a fan of BIG WINGS!
FWIW
Tim

[target]

do you guys think the that size of f3f machines is going up? it seems like a lot of models are 2.9-3.2m at the moment. Traditionally i thought 2.5 to 3m was f3f size. and say 3 - 3.2m for f3b with f3j bigger again.

the 3.2m ascot certainly turns well. It will be interesting to see how the shot Ascot does in f3f http://f3x.eu/Ascot_s.htm

decisions.......


The F3B models are usually a bit larger in span than the F3F models; but the trend has been to use F3B models in F3F lately, that's where you are seeing the above 3M spans.
It's probably good to have a range of models in your hangar; that's what I tell my wife! ;)

T

[satinet]

the wife says she needs a good range of clothes on her hangers (http://baysideproducts.com/store/images/CDV8950%20catalog.jpg) .........

Well i've got 2.5, 2.7 and 3m so far.......... :D

[timmig]

That's a good start!! I'll bet the wife also says--"Bigger is better" in many cases!! :)
T


OKAY--flew the Ascot and the Ceres tonight. Both are fast--the Ceres seems easier to get moving fast--but I've got Target's tried and true settings that we know work.
The Ascot moves really well also--but I think I'm nose heavy--and my CG machine is a plywood unit that I don't think is giving me true readings. I removed almost 1oz from the nose during trim and flying tests, and It's still nose heavy--starting at 103 CG on this machine. I'll keep flying and removing until I get it right--then measure it on Target's MPX machine.
It flies very nice-- how much snap flap are you guys finding it needs? I've got about 4mm-- and it doesn't seem enough. I'll work with it more tomorrow.
FWIW
Tim

[isoaritfirst]

It does seem to like more snap flap than I use on other models, try lots and then wind it back..

The Ascot is very deceptive - it doesnt seem fast until it starts to get sub35
Mike

[guillaume83]

Had some good F3B practice day with the Ascot today :cool:

I practiced Speed only and improved a lot.

I also moved the CG back on mine, but it was way too forward due to the CG balance giving poor readings to.

4mm seems like an awful lot. I used to have a lot then found it was working better for me with less Snap Flap. I'm now around 2mm and I know Vaclav Vojtisek has about the same amount...I found it was being slowed down too much in a turn when using more Snap Flap.

Guillaume

[timmig]

Okay-- I'll be receptive to removing some snap flap on trial also. I wish I had the ballast I had made--won't be able to pick it up till the race tomorrow--heading out soon to try the Ascot again for more tuning. It's a beautiful ship in the air!! I like the way it handles--but I need to get it turning harder--"pinging" as I like to say! :):)
It also seemed to like a little reflex---have you found that too?
Tim

[guillaume83]

It also seemed to like a little reflex---have you found that too?

Yes, but again moderately :rolleyes: I have about -1mm and it makes a difference in good air or windy conditions.

Guillaume