Help me set up a contest

[JCastle]

We got the nod from Shawn to run a contest of some sort in the Free Flight forum. What I need from you guys is some ideas of what kind of contest to have. We need to find a format that will allow a wide variety of skill levels and interest to participate. I think that the nature of the web will not allow us to use flight times as criteria so I assume that whatever we do will have to be judged by our peers. I know that Free Flight covers a wide range of interest from the gossamer light to the nitro screaming rockets. Hopefully there is something that will arouse the interest of enough people to make this fun. So lets hear your ideas and lets see if we can stir up a little interest.
Shawn also asked what kind of prizes would be appropriate for the winner(s). Any ideas?:D

Thanks for your input,
John Castle

[Terry Lyttle]

I'll get back onto my Ebenezer thing again here: as far as I can determine, Ebenezer Scale is all-sheet, profile, and scale outlines. A real contest has to do with a 30 sec flight time, but, as you say, timing would be hard to judge, but at least one could power with slimer, electric, or catapult (should have seen my Avro Arrow go!).
If it is to be a peer-oriented thing, why not just trust that the builder has gotten a 30 sec flight, and we can all judge for originality and workmanship, both subjective but tempered by the group to come up with "winners".

"Winners" will be all of us: we all end up with a flyable, bounceable, fun freeflight model!

[KnifeEdge51]

Models pertinent to the contest would be scratch built, correct? I'll have to find time to mess around with that. :-) I'm interested, however.

On a side note, being the young "FF apprentice" that I am, I was quite proud when I got my Guillows Mustang (17.25") to fly roughly a 40' diameter circle twice. Using simple algebra, (2 time pi times radius) I figured it flew roughly 251 feet. :D

Nick R.

[Terry Lyttle]

Getting a Guillows low winger to go nearly as far as the Wright Bros is an accomplishment indeed :D

Very few Ebenezer kits around, maybe there's a market, yet untapped... C'mon, scratch building ain't THAT bad, really!

[KnifeEdge51]

I never said scratching was BAD, I just said I didn't ahve time for it amongst school, etc. Matter or fact, I rather enjoy scratching repair parts for my Guillows planes. I'd be greatly interested in giving it a try if I could get the time. :)

Nick R.

[Terry Lyttle]

From the Other End of life, I still can't find the time I want to build. At 64, I am winding up my business, giving up on trying to change Motor Vehicle bureaucrats so that I can continue building cars, so that I can get back to model building.

Alas, I was struck by the stupid idea of changing our village by running for Council, and now I have to put my money where my mouth is; new career, Politician. With luck, I will be defeated, and be allowed to build, build, build.... dream on, fool....

[steve lewin]

I'm sitting here looking out at pouring rain and 40mph winds thinking maybe we should have an indoor FF contest. You could even make it a semi-Ebeneezer. Scaleish, profile fuse, no built up surfaces (wood or foam), any power source except IC, must do 30/40 sec flight in a reasonable size gym/hall.

I confess I've given up outdoor FF cus I'm just too lazy. Either they don't fly well or if they do fly well you have spend the next couple of hours searching for them.

Steve

[steve lewin]

I know you're not supposed to reply to your own posts but the more I think about it the more I like the idea of an "Indooreneezer" contest. I think I might try it on my local indoor fliers even if you lot aren't interested. There are already a few of us flying things that would more or less fit.

Steve

[Terry Lyttle]

We had an informal "class" we called "Sweet Sixteenth"; about a dozen models were built, some using Guillows plans or some such. The only rule was ALL wood used was to be 1/16sq or sheet; any prop, any size, and should be scale (or close). Indoors we were getting nearly 2 min under a 20' ceiling from the guys who really had to "win" (we never did have a contest), to crunchers and kids who only got 40 sec. Cheap, fun, scale; is there more?

[steve lewin]

Originally posted by Terry Lyttle
The only rule was ALL wood used was to be 1/16sq or sheet; any prop, any size, and should be scale (or close). Indoors we were getting nearly 2 min under a 20' ceiling from the guys who really had to "win" (we never did have a contest), to crunchers and kids who only got 40 sec. Cheap, fun, scale; is there more?
Simple ? Easy to get started ?

Still, if you're sure that's the only rule I can build one almost entirely of blue foam provided I don't use any wood that isn't 1/16th. Sounds good to me :).

I've almost given up using wood for indoor models, I'm too clumsy for the sizes and weights required (though 1/16th square is quite big by modern standards).

Still, if there are only the 2 of us interested I think you can have the prize now. Save a lot of messing about ;).

Steve

[Terry Lyttle]

I like contests like that. Too bad it's just us on this, I was hoping that others would at least show interest. Is freeflight dead (remember those arguments? all the way back to the 60s!) or just resting (cue Monte Python theme)?

I, too, am getting curious about blue foam in smaller sizes; I keep looking at Dave Deadman's efforts, trying to decide if I have what it takes to do stuff like that; beautiful... I have a foam cutter and a Dremel, my only restriction is time, but I hope to conquer that soon.

Blue foam contest? E-Charger contest? 40mph winds (or -5C) is surely enough to inspire some kind of indoor activity, contest or not!:D

BTW, what did I win? I hereby donate it to the next contest's prize list!

[KnifeEdge51]

I was interested. :D I just don't know enough to really do anything. :( I've only built from kits, and all the plans out there are for heavy outdoor models (as far as I can find. I'm still looking, though). I've got a few indoor types, I just need to print the plans off and get around to making them.

Nick R.

[Terry Lyttle]

Just use the kit plans for your P51 for outlines, and follow some of the threads concerning foam cutting, and there you are.

I have a set of plans from Model Flyer (?) for a Hurricane in foam, (supposed to be CO2, but I am going to build it for electric), and I note some interesting techniques, ie, 1/16x1/4 balsa longerons on the inside of the fuse, balsa le & te on the wing, heavy undercamber, breakaway nose etc. Using foam, you will learn a lot about what survives and what doesn't, but building another P51 will teach you a lot. Apparently your best friend for carving the inside of the fuse is a strong light: cut away the foam to ~1/16" near the edge of a fuse half, then grind away the rest of the inside until the light looks the same shining through the foam; easy once you get the hang of it.

Try it, you'll like it! :D

[Shawn Palmer]

Hi guys,

I refuse to believe FF is dead!

It introduced me into the eventualities of r/c, taught me 99% of the building and trimming skills I still use to this day, and was how my dad got started in aeromodeling as well (but he kinda strayed into rockets).

What about a flyer to hand out at the next indoor FF session, or asking around at the LHS about kids that are into it?

We have an indoor session weekly here, with FABULOUS models, but (and don't take me wrong here) 90% of the participants are over 80, and the other 10% are 50+. It's a daunting group for a youngster to walk into (although they'd all love to help and inspire - I've no doubt).

Is r/c just too easy a jump to start in aeromodeling, even as a kid now?

Shawn

[KnifeEdge51]

If I had the time or money, and a local FF group, I'd probably jump right in, regardless of how old the majority of the members are. I still don't have an R/C model, although I am working towards that goal. However, once I do get one, I in no way what so ever plan to drop FF. It's just too much fun. I do believe, however, that FF will become much more enjoyable for me once I get the time to start a few scratch projects. I'm itching to finish up my first scale project, a Guillows Super Cub. I'm not sure how well it will fly, but if it doesn't perform as well as I want it to, at least my efforts will pay off in the looks department!

Nick R.

[Terry Lyttle]

I tried to get MAAC (the Canadian AMA or BMFA) to change their Youth Committee to Beginners Committee 25 years ago, because my experience has been that beginners come in ALL ages. Some of my proudest moments was when the kids and the pensioners were talking TO EACH OTHER about how to trim simple models!

As far as "simple" is concerned, skip the Dart thing: it is for pre-teens. Get a bunch of Peck ROGs, a couple of different sizes of rubber, rip off the landing gear, and drag out a stopwatch. We eventually got a minute under a 22' ceiliing: not a record, but there was a dozen guys OF ALL AGES having a great time all winter long, with STOCK ROGs.

Let the BEGINNERS find what they want after that. Some went on to peanut, some Pennyplane, some IHLG, some just buzzed off, but it was a repeatable experience for anyone who has the time and the facilities. And it's CHEAP. One more idea:D

[flailing]

I vote for a Peanut Scale or Earl Stahl contest, Dave Livesay has plenty of peanut plans free on his site and all the Earl Stahl designs are free on the plan page.

[KnifeEdge51]

Who or what is Earl Stahl? I'm pretty interested in scale Peanut. The LHS has a nice looking little Peck Polymers Peanut Mustang that looks like it would be fun to convert to RFFS (if I put that on my Xmas list), but that's a bit off topic. :D THe Peanut scale stuff looks like such a challenge, I just hate the idea of not giving it a try. :) Perhaps these Earl Stahl models are similar? Thanks!

Nick R.

[Terry Lyttle]

I've built a few Stahl designs, most from old MAN plans from the 40s, and a Flyline kit for the Seagull. These models almost always fly VERY well, and scale-like. I flew my Seagull indoors for years, so they are versatile, tho the Mustang would take some trimming for indoors. Outdoors they are magnificent. If you are looking for challenge, try a Lubomir Koutny's design and knock yourself out...

Peanuts? Can you build just one? Carefully built, a Peanut will perform with the best. I have lost a couple of Peck Cougars and a few Pietenpols to thermals, and I ain't the best builder by a long shot. I recommend you order Walt Mooney's "Bags of Peanuts", again proven flyers; over 100 available. Another thing you might want to look at is NoCal scale, Lidberg offers many plans, good indoors or out.

[flailing]

Earl Stahl was, is a legend in free flight circles he produced many designs that all flew great during a time when not all models would even fly. I think I have built most of his designs over the years, I have his P-40 framed up on my building board and it's really sweet. The plans can be found here http://www.theplanpage.com/

The Peck Mustang is a great flier but takes some careful trimming, I have been flying the Peck Andressen biplane for a few years and have won 4 first place wins with it, a fantastic flier.

Walt Mooney was another legend, any of his Peanut Scale designs make great models.

I have built about 100 peanut models and if you decide to go with a peanut contest I will post some tips I have learned along the way for these addictive little flying machines.

One thing I like about peanuts is unless you fly over concrete even full power dives into the ground won't hurt, most of the time.

Here's the link to the Dave Livesay peanut plans, it's a slow loading page but worth the wait. http://mywebpage.netscape.com/dmlivesay/peanutplans.html

[KnifeEdge51]

I bookmarked your page, flailing. :) Does anyone know Peck Polymer's website? Or do they even have one? Thanks!

Nick R.

[JCastle]

Thanks to everyone for your response.
I think I will go ahead and pitch the idea of a Peanut Scale contest to Shawn and Andy. Peanuts are fun and as easy or complicated to build as your skills will allow. The rules will be along the lines of a typical peanut contest.

13" max wingspan or 9" max length.
Rubber or electric power. (after all this is the E-Zone)
30 second (on your word) min flight time.
Scratch, plans or kit built.

Judging will be on overall scale appearance, originality and whatever else we can think of.

I believe that the main focus of this contest is to promote FF as a viable sector of this hobby and as a chance for the talented and experienced members of the group to share some hints and tips with some of the newcomers. Hopefully we will all learn something in the end. It might take a bit of time to put the details together so in the mean time dust off that 1/32" balsa and think about what you want to build.

Thanks,
John

:)

[steve lewin]

Sounds good. I won't be entering because I simply don't have the skill or patience for scale detailing at that tiny (to my clumsy hands) size but I love to see the results of those master modellers that do.

BTW why restrict the power sources ? CO2 works well for peanuts too.

Also to add a little variety how about saying that they could be scale models of larger models, not just of full size planes ? A 13" free flight E3D would be interesting to trim but a 13" Litestick might be an easy introduction to small models ;)

Steve

[flailing]

I have 2 suggestions for the contest.
1. At least 1 photo with a 12" ruler in the picture for size.
2. Make a beginner and advanced class.

Steve Lewin, give it a try the Peck kits like the Druine Turbulent it's pretty easy to build with sheet fuselage sides, a great flier, and has good detail.

[flailing]

Peck website.
http://www.peck-polymers.com/

[davidalan]

have a go at the peck polymers LACEY, i got it to fly superbly even with the plastic prop supplied.

how about a precision contest? the target time should be say 25 secs. you have 3 attempts to achieve the perfect flight time and the closest to the time wins. no need for fancy scale or duraton models, just a reliable performer. no particular type of model just so long as it flies rise off ground

[BMatthews]

I like the duration concept. It gets rid of the thermal thing. But you might as well round it off to a full 30 seconds. Or how about a set of tasks to fly? Keeping with the idea of small field types I'd say the 30 second precision duration, a 100 yard striaght line distance flight and a spot landing with the launch being 100 feet from the landing point and based on so many feet from the spot. Three attempts for each task. To allow for the retrimming that's needed between tasks you don't have to fly all the tasks on one day but it should be within, say, one week. Not sure why but it seems like we should have SOME time limit.

I haven't built a peanut for years. Built a couple of bostonians a couple of years back just for fun. The sorta Monocoupe that was in Flying Models by Jim Longstreth and a Gee Bee flat sided but true profile box bostonian of my own design.

The Monocoupe is a great flyer but the Gee Bee had a "few" problems.

So do we design our own? Or get extra points for original designs?