Yacht Based UAV - How To

[sharkyjones]

Hello All
I'm new here. used to fly RC as a kid then got out, recently something seems to have happened - i spent weeks building a huge glowplug trainer with clunky big servos and batts that lasted 10 sec - now we have electric planes one can fly in a BBall court!

I am bigtime into Scuba diving, I recently acquired my first yacht (rather cheaply I might add, don't think giant rich toy, thing 37ft trailer with loads of bits attached to it, think waterworld rather than james bond). I'm putting a compressor on her as well as a bathymetric mapping system based around a laptop and a submersible camera - I love marine biol and plan on : filming sharks, mapping and video mapping my local reefs, filming and maybe counting whale sharks and / or dugongs (like a manatee), finding new wrecks (starting with a WWII japanese destroyer - think I know where she is, buddy of mine is going to lend me his sidescan).

So I'm kind of marinised - I also love the air and here's where my question to you guys comes in.

I want to be able to get in the air as well as undersea. I want to be able to launch and recover a camera in the sky, it needs to fly around for a good while and cover good ground, prime aim is to spot whalesharks.

Several solutions present themselves, but they have to be affordable (sub $1k) simple, easy to maintain in the field (underwater vid cams, boats, dive gear all eat up time) and simple to fly :

- I've looked at helos - natural option - I could land on deck or on my large solar panel mount (maybe cover with ply) that looks like a heli pad on the rear - problem so far all i can fly is a little indoor battery powereed thing - getting to fly big helo takes time and skill, also damned expensive to crash it and will kill people onboard (although helo is an eventual solution cos looks fun) - could tow the rubber dinghy behind and land on that!

- I like the idea of a foam motor glider e.g. Easystar or a global star/ predator drone model - launch by hand, electric, power up, glide save batteries look , gain height, glide - stay up there a while ? how long possible. Launch by hand or from small inflatable dinghy motoring at speed or maybe catapult along the boom (the pole at the btm of the sail) like a CAM ship in WWII. Then capture using a large net like some of the early israeli drones - could string up net where sail goes and also have hook on plane so once arrested it dangles.

- Paramotor - a company airfoil something makes interesting power parachute models that carry damned big payload for their size e.g. 1/4 scale carries up to 3lbs and they claim can stay up 45 mins, bigger ones claim 4 hours - this seems perfect BUT how to launch and recover at sea ? Maybe plywood table on rubber dinghy, power into wind and hand launch, how to recover, net not work great due to large height of paramotor, maybe have dinghy move at same speed into wind relative to plane and land in dinghy ? use larg hand net to capture out of sky ?

These are my thoughts!! Would love to hear your take on these - this thing must be simple, robust, easy to repair in case of ditching e.g. not too much trashed! and fold SMALL - lack of space on board.

i think powered parachute. though 1st experiments might be with easystar! Any other recommendations on good gliders ?

Cheers
Sharkyjones
Brit engineer in Malaysian Borneo

[clolson]

If you can get your boat up to some reasonable speed, heading into a reasonable headwind, I don't think hand launching would too difficult, even for larger aircraft. My big Rascal 110 stalls at less than 20 mph ... I'm not sure about the sanity of trying to hand launch a 15 lb. beast with 9+ foot wingspan and an 18" prop screaming at 10,000 rpm ... but would be fun to try once ... :-) Recovery is probably the hardest part. I think whatever you do, you have to have a plan for when your equipment gets wet. I'd be interested in hearing ideas for how to protect motor, speed controller, and other electronics when the aircraft inevitably misses the net or something else happens and it ends up in the water. Quick fetch, fresh water rinse, and then dry? How can you account for cooling of your components and still make it water tight? Should you think about a design that can land on water and remain upright with the critical components high and dry? A design that could stay upright in moderate waves ... possibly continuing to transmit it's position so you can go find it? One thing I know about water is that it finds a way to get every where unless there is a perfect seal, and even then ...

[Medve]

sounds like a pneumatic launch system would be perfect for you. Check out this link:http://home1.gte.net/texhills/page13.html. You may also want to conider a foam flying wing plane. floats, doesn't take up much room, you can use a plastic tube as a fuse that you know is water tight at least up to the two ends. Talk to CenTexFlyer, he has wing cores that would probably be perfect. Plus, he does arial video regularly so could be a big help.

[Blue Sky]

Hi Sharky!
There are threads in the Water Plane forum for putting floats on both the EasyStar and the TwinStar.
The EasyStar is suprisingly compact once you break the wing down.
The paragliders may prove a problem if it gets windy.
The biggest problem you'll have is landing.
Floats, flaps, a net, can all be helpful. Flying wings can be easy to plant in a small area but require more expertise to fly.
Considering the times in which we live, I would avoid building something that looks like
a military drone or cruise missle.

-Dave

[macboffin]

Check out the "Northstar" design; people have built bigger versions, very good on/off water.

[sharkyjones]

Hi Sharky!
There are threads in the Water Plane forum for putting floats on both the EasyStar and the TwinStar.
The EasyStar is suprisingly compact once you break the wing down.
The paragliders may prove a problem if it gets windy.
The biggest problem you'll have is landing.
Floats, flaps, a net, can all be helpful. Flying wings can be easy to plant in a small area but require more expertise to fly.
Considering the times in which we live, I would avoid building something that looks like
a military drone or cruise missle.

-Dave



Hahaha - last point is excellent - especially since I live in a muslim country wouldn't want my hosts to get worried!!

Flying wings an excellent idea, anyone know any good kits ?

WATER PROOFING - making the thing float well for 1. Then everything but motor maybe a good thick layer of silicone grease ? or B) - the gear has to be cheap enough to lose, easy enough to replace but easy enough to land that you don't lose it too often.
Also encasing somethings e.g. video tx in polythene or in a silicone gel with only wires protruding

[Blue Sky]

Hahaha - last point is excellent - especially since I live in a muslim country wouldn't want my hosts to get worried!!

Nooo you don't!!!!!:eek:
Better slap a few happy faces on it!:) :) :)
Also encasing somethings e.g. video tx in polythene or in a silicone gel with only wires protruding.
Tx's get hot. If you cannot get enough ventilation you may need to use a
heat sink. Embed the tx but leave the heatsink exposed.

-Dave

[treehog]

The sea inviorment is hard on electronics

foamies are vitualy manditory

make a net to land(fly ) into might work better than tring to be fancy

Fuel will be better for long flights

Put motor on a pod up high to keep it clear of the water if the plane ditches save rebuilding motor

will send more later

Ralf

[sharkyjones]

petrol makes a lot of sense, but electric can recharge at sea never short of fuel.

Would motor need a rebuild - probably get away with wash in fresh water, oil and fire up straight away, run it dry as you would an outboard. Lots of WD40!!!

Any recommendations on aircraft ?

Anyone done any net recoveries - I like the airgun idea but could probably more simply use some kind of bungee launcher.

I have soo little time and facilities to build.

[treehog]

Any flight missions from long distance will cause serious issues for cost complexity

For practical purposes as the speed of a yaught is slow some 5 knots knowing what exists more than 5 five nautical miles away isn't usually important to justify cost complexity

Assuming 90% of the mission is to flight to some 2000 feet and loiter over a region for one to three hours some one to two miles away from yaught and beam back pictures to the boat then it will narrow down the mission needs

From this it would indicate that the UAV element would be minor as in put plane in loiter mode for some period over some sector until further instructions .This would free upo manpower to attend to other activities on the boat with the occasion chech to see if anything has appeared on the signal

from ranges of two miles ordinary RC would be able to Cope with the the odd input from UAV where signal was low

From this distance the 2.5 gigerherz video signal would be marginal and on its limits but some users have got more than 2 miles but it get expensive


The use of fuel would probably not be petrol but glow motors

Bigger glow motors do not need nitro and so alcohol and Castor oil would work ok and should be available

extra large fuel tanks could give on low throttle loter modes up to 3 hours endurance

bungee take off would be possible with pylon mounted motor

landing into large nets draped from over the mast should be feesable

some but not all modern foamies can tolerate fuel splillages

Going for long flight times of three hours instead of three one hour flights from electric would reduce the risky phase of take off landing
Electric unless it is mad money will probably never exceed one hour duration and will be prone to complete total right off damage if a water landing caused water ingress

A second on board small back up electric motor with low duration might be a solution for engine failu return to boat second chance

My preference would be the Multiplex 40 trainer foamy cub witha add on mono float
The MPX plane is quazia Cessana trike 150 type looking plane with a 50 better a 60 motor mounted on a pylon over the wing

The main fuel tank would be in the fuse such as a bladder tank of a liter of fuel with a small header tank of 250cc mounted on the pylon
the sixty motor with a big prop 13 inch with shallow pitch on 1/4 or 1/5 throtle super low nearly tick over will fly the plane in level flight and the fuel rin time would probably exceed a smaller motor like a 40 going at half throtle

Also the bigger motor will have more power for the take off and will be more reliable

Another option would be a 60 to 80 four stroke which would use much less fuel but the motor weight would be twice as heavy more costly and would be a more complex rebuil if the plane ditched


petrol planes are normally commencing at 50cc but some smaller power plants exist at 22 cc or sometimes slightly less at 15cc

however the costs are far bigger the motors are much heavier much more complex and would require much bigger planes and marginal benifit saving from lower fuel consumptions

the petrol option would probably be manditory if you wished to have large range three to fiveteen miles distant from the boat or high altitude 10000 feet or so as they would have the power to lift the more powerful beam back the pictures as these would need huge battery power and costs

I would commence with a NON UAV mpx version ordinary MPX 40 trainer with normal trike and 60 motor and mandiory hand launch with big prop motor in the nose as normal learn to fly from the ground and land dead stick to save large prop

then make a suitable pylon to mount the sixty motor and learn to fly that
then make the mono float

forget idea to take off from water as unless a plane is very big any small 6 inch waves will knock out tiny planes the float is for engine failure only mode so mono will be sufficient and cause less drag weight

then install a suitable video feed back

then later install the UAV element which would probably be simple holding pattern type UAV system more cheap and more esy to ensure it works

For pleasure flying and quick simple launch systems where 20 minute flying would be eneogh a simple foamy delta such as MPX s400 jet delta would be able to operate straight quickly with RC and a a smaller 500 meter to 1 km range video feed and would make a excellent budget way to test out and learn to fly model


what the specks on the boat itself
I found from my sailing days for a typical 40 footer you need two lead acid batteries of
700 amps with a 3 amp wind and 3 amp solar charger and every two days top up from inboard diesel to ensure no issues for electric

Less than that always came unstuck as lead can only give ten % of capacity in every day use before needing recharging
Also found the typical 1000 watt generator on battery charge of 8 amps rarely give more than 3 amps

Ralf

[SQ-1]

Hello - I just noticed this thread. Just a couple of thoughts. These are not exact answers for your request, but might be a place to start, and would certainly give you some experience with the 'flight package'.
In WW2 the Germans had a gyro for aerial observation they could fold, deploy and tow behind a (surfaced) sub. Also, there are web sites devoted to stabilzed cameras under kites. Some of these are capbale of a certain amount of steering.

SQ-1

[LukeZ]

SQ-1 makes a good point. For the fun of it, you can check out these two very impressive sites devoted to KAP (kite aerial photography).

http://www.arch.ced.berkeley.edu/kap/kaptoc.html

http://scotthaefner.com/kap/

Luke

[Airboatflyingshp]

Check out the data sticky in waterplanes loads of ideas ..........but look in foamies for the Twinstar 2 flyingboat.You can land on water land or even catch it in a slack net.
Run your flight charger from a car booster/jump-start battery pack.......they can be charged via a supplied 12v car cigarette lighter socket or mains adapter.

The other idea could be to use an auto-giro powered or kite form..........you could even stick it on light plastic floats.
The other option is a Polly pusher or Wally wing http://www.acesim.com/rc/index.html pusher layouts keep your prop out of the camera way and if you need to bring it in nose first to a catch net or the hand its less likely to cause damage. Ditto electric given the right design you can cut power glide/soar a long way then power up again.
The kite idea has its limits from a boat as you cannot send it away to look .......especially in waters where you might not want to take your boat.......... don't forget to fit a polarizing filter to your camera ;)

http://isopoddesign.com/10.html

[treehog]

Seems to have dissapeared
probably the Indonesian pirates got him

Ralf

[Airboatflyingshp]

Treehog
Surely not the Boogie men.......... which is where the phrase Bogey man is believed to come from -a particularly fierce bunch from that part of the world.

More likely technology failure or work.........