Qualifications for this forum

[Mr. Wiz]

I see the complicated formula for determining which planes belong in this forum. Wouldn't it be much simpler to say something like all electric planes over 12 lbs or some other pre determined weight and forget all that other stuff?

It's just a thought.

Wiz

[Lynxman]

Hmm. Where can I find these rules?

I have a 72" Spitfire that weighs 16 lbs, but don't consider it giant scale.

[Mr. Wiz]

Hmm. Where can I find these rules?

I have a 72" Spitfire that weighs 16 lbs, but don't consider it giant scale.

Look under the title to this Forum in the main page.

Discuss large electric aircraft that meet IMAA giant scale guidelines: minimum 80" wingspan, 60" wingspan for biplanes, 144" combined width and length for jets, or true 1/4 scale models.


When I tossed out 12 lbs it was just a number I picked out of the sky. Should it be higher? Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems to me the reason people wanted this forum was because they truly wanted to discuss issues with large power systems and large airframes without having to wade through all the other smaller plane threads. IMHO, A simple solution to this would be weight, or possibly watts? I think some fairly small planes have power systems that still pump out big watts, so I think weight is the best simple solution. Maybe 14, or 16 or 18? lbs an up is better.

[Mr. Wiz]

I guess people like the IMAA guidelines. Humm.... That's kind of surprising.

[jrb]

So that means the new Hangar 9 electric ARF qualifies!










its an 80" Cub, with the E-Flte 46BL, and flies on 4S LiPo.

[MiniBoy]

It just occurred to me that the name of this Forum is "Giant Electric Planes", but the qualification criteria mentions SCALE ....

Discuss large electric aircraft that meet IMAA giant SCALE guidelines: minimum 80" wingspan, 60" wingspan for biplanes, 144" combined width and length for jets, or true 1/4 scale models.

Will it be any aircraft that is large enough including scale ..

Will it be any aircraft that is large enough except scale ..

Will it be any aircraft that is large enough but only scale ..

This may need to be clarified before the wrong ( if there is a wrong ) planes get posted here ??

Any thoughts ??

EDIT: Come to think of it, the IMAA Giant Scale rules are for "Big Scale" as in 1/3 .. 1/4 .. scale, etc., not necessarily "Scale Model" ..

Am I in left field here ??

Russ :confused:

[perttime]

I have no planes that qualify... but in the discussion before this forum started the emphasis was on size.

If it is big you can post it here.

[tone]

The thing is, that with a plane that meets these specs, you can go to almost any fly-in and be accepted. Plus, let me tell ya a 60" Bipe is a big freakin model. :)
so i figured that was the reason for the posting regs.

I think they added true 1/4 scale in there becase so many performance types are not at 80" span even at 1/4 scale. But they are big models for electrification.

Anyhow i am glad to see this, because the Sport plane forum had gotten so junked up with parkflyers. The G-Ride is a great model, but it is a parkflyer, for example.

[Mr. Wiz]

If I were making the rules I'd be fairly flexable. I don't think people should be thrown out for posting planes that are at or near the small end limit.

Again, I think a simple weight limit is sufficent. Are we really looking for an electric IMAA of sorts. I wasn't when I voted for the forum.

[Larry3215]

Personally, I would rather keep the "requirements" on the loose side and not make them too tight. I generally prefer going with an attitude of inclusiveness instead of exclusiveness and prefer to keeping things fun and easy going.

The more people who can play the better :)

That said, I like the IMAA rules as a general guide. Its an established set of guidlines that is already recognized world wide.

As an example, one of my foamy scratch builds would sort of fit here. Its BIG enough span wise - 85", but it only weighs 6 pounds and has a relatively small power system for a giant scale project at about 900 watts.

I guess my point is that there are a lot of different catagories of things to consider and discuss when building a Giant electric plane and not ALL of them will necessarily be giant at the same time on every plane.

You can easily have a very large plane with a small power system and low weight or a small plane with a very hi power system and hi weight but less span.

Any way, I vote to keep things less restrictive :)

Larry

[Larry3215]

As far as "scale" goes, I dont want to limit us only to scale models of real planes.

If its big in some way is good enough for me :)

Larry

[Lynxman]

I agree with Larry3215. Diversity is good here.

[Mr. Wiz]

I'm not going to argue my point any further. If the forum is going to be a loose interpretation of the IMAA guidelines then I'm happy with it.

[jonnyjetprop]

The intent of the word "scale" is size, not scale as in an accurate depiction of a real airplane. We covered this under the new thread forum.

John

[MiniBoy]

The intent of the word "scale" is size, not scale as in an accurate depiction of a real airplane. We covered this under the new thread forum.

John
Thanks, Jonny:

I re-thought that as noted by the EDIT in my post # 6 .. kinda had a mental block there for a minute or two ?!?

It comes from my gas boat days of 15 years ago where the boats were "giant scale" .. AND they were "scale models".

Russ :)

[cyclops2]

Stay with the INCHES requirement.

Watts are abused to death by a small Stryker at over 1,000 watts.
And still wanting more.

Heavy is just that. HEAVY.

[wilscor41]

I truly believe that anything .60 size and up is large scale in electrics. 63" to 71" inch models will be left in limbo. .60 size planes fro 81/2 to 12lbs. are definitely not park fliers. Having more in common with 1/5 or 1/4 scale,I.E air retracts, flaps, cockpit kits, fiberglassing, HV esc, etc. I think it will be a shame if these VERY popular size models are left out!
Jack
PS: I to hate looking through the itty bittys and foamies

[Thomas B]

But, this forum is to chat about "giant scale" electric models.

Models of the size that meet the standard and traditional "giant scale" model guidelines, as adopted by this forum, are worthy of their own group.

"Giant Scale" (which certainly is not limited to scale models, as previously mentioned) is a very well defined subgroup of the R/C hobby.

There are probably more "Giant Scale" fly ins and events than any other single subgroup in the R/C aircraft hobby. With all the new advances, electrics will be more and more common at these events. Having a forum devoted to electric versions of these aircraft is a very good idea.

The "smaller" large electrics have several places to converse...Sport Electric models, scale, if they are scale, and electric converisons if they are conversions.

[Martin Irvine]

I think the wingspan requirement is probably the best. It doesn't eliminate 80" powered gliders or 60" Lympne (sp?) biplanes, but then, are they going to post here?

I have had "Giant Scale" planes that I haven't taken to IMAA events because I didn't think they met the spirit of the organization. Personally, I think you have to police yourself on suitability. If someone wants to write about a 1/5 scale DRI (about 57"), that's OK with me - it's going to be a big airplane, even if it's short on wingspan.

Martin

[Thomas B]

Actually, I always enjoyed taking smaller true 1/4 scale models of homebuilts to the Giant Scale fly ins.....I have a 1/4 scale Moni tri gear that has probably been to 25 fly ins over the years.

I have a 1/4 scale Cri Cri that will eventually make a few of the local giant scale meets....at 50" in span with two Speed 400s, it will stand out in it's own way..;)

Mixing in the smaller homebuilts gives a more Oshkosh-like flavor to these events....

[Mr. Wiz]

Actually, I always enjoyed taking smaller true 1/4 scale models of homebuilts to the Giant Scale fly ins.....I have a 1/4 scale Moni tri gear that has probably been to 25 fly ins over the years.

I have a 1/4 scale Cri Cri that will eventually make a few of the local giant scale meets....at 50" in span with two Speed 400s, it will stand out in it's own way..;)

Mixing in the smaller homebuilts gives a more Oshkosh-like flavor to these events....

Do you think a plane like that is in the spirit of this specific forum?

[jrb]

As stated before the "standard" exists!

My post was just a funny ;) !


IMAA!!

[cooper998]

I chose to follow the IMAA guidelines when building my large planes. With over 30 events held each year within 150 miles of my house I am able to participate at any of the "Large Scale" events. Most flyers are very interested in seeing large electrics fly at their events and usually come around and ask plenty of questions about my setups

cooper998

[Thomas B]

Do you think a plane like that is in the spirit of this specific forum?

It does, by the exact words of the specifications, as the model is 1/4 true scale.

In reality, it will likely not be a model that gets discussed here much, as it does not have the issues associated with most giant electric models.

The industry set the definiton of large model or giant scale many years ago, when the IMAA started having large model events and even back when Chuck Cunningham started the entire large model event trend back in the 1970's with the first "Jumbo" fly in.

Small 1/4 scale homebuilts are at one end of the governing bell curve for model size, just as 100lb super giants are at the other end of the size bell curve for giant R/C models.

[eajohnson]

I'd like to chime in as also in favor of a loose intepretation of what qualifies as a topic for discussion. Sure, the forum is for large electrics (IMAA definition) but I'd be happy to see any birds-of-a-feather related discussions as long as the problems faced are similar. By some people's definitions the 1/4 scale balsa usa citabria I am going to build as an electric conversion wouldn't qualify (or would just barely qualify), and to my thinking that's a bit silly. It's a pretty big plane for eflight. So speaking only for myself, I'd welcome any topics that are relevant regardless of the exact specs of the plane in question.

[benlo2d]

It qualifies except for some of the people across the pond.
Just as my 1/6 scale Beaver (96" ws) qualifies. :)
Ben

[Thomas B]

...............

By some people's definitions the 1/4 scale balsa usa citabria I am going to build as an electric conversion wouldn't qualify (or would just barely qualify), and to my thinking that's a bit silly.

...

No barely about it...it completely qualifies here and at giant meets.

[MiniBoy]

Hey Guys:

I may be interpreting the "Giant Electric Planes" forum criteria wrongly, but I don't understand the confusion and the alleged "complicated formula" for classification

It seems that there are only four criteria:

(1) A wingspan of 80 in. or greater for an electric, prop powered mono-wing
aircraft

(2) A wingspan of 60 in. or greater for an electric, prop powered Bi-wing
aircraft

(3) A combined 144 in. wingspan PLUS fuselage length for an
electric ducted fan powered aircraft .

(4) Any true-to-life 1/4 scale aircraft regardless of wingspan / size.

Before I stick my foot in my mouth too far, have I got this correctly, or am I missing something ??

Thanks for your opinions,

Russ

[Larry3215]

Thats my understanding too.

Larry

[MiniBoy]

Thats my understanding too.

Larry
Whew ...

Thanks Larry .. I'll wait for a few other opinions before I comment further ....

Russ :)

[Larry3215]

Here is the IMAA link

http://www.fly-imaa.org/imaa/about.html

What is Large or Giant Scale?

The concept of large or giant scale is generally considered to apply to radio controlled model aircraft with minimum wingspans of eighty (80) inches for monoplanes and sixty (60) inches for multi-wing aircraft. Ducted Fan aircraft with one hundred forty (140) inches combined length and width, measured from wing tip to wing tip at the widest point perpendicular to the fuselage and added to the length of the fuselage, excluding any protrusions. Quarter (1/4) scale replica's or larger with proper documentation (minimum 3 view drawing of an actual person carrying aircraft) which do not fit the size requirements will be permitted. However, the concept does not encompass radio controlled model aircraft so large as to have the potential of carrying a human being.

Larry

[MiniBoy]

Hi Larry:

Thanks for the link .. I did spend an hour or so this evening at the IMAA site, particularly on the definitions of qualifying aircraft. I picked up on the difference of the IMAA 140 in. total wingspan plus fuselage length, compared to our forum starters' 144 in. total wingspan plus fuselage length. I don't know whether this makes a hoot, or if it may have been a typo, or if it would be good to keep the specifications similar, as there seems to me to be no good reason to have them dis-similar ?!?

I also don't know whether the intent is to mimic the IMAA rules, but I, personally, cannot think of a reason why to not, as these standards for "Big" aircraft have been established, and I presume we are only trying to add an electric power version for the benefit of those who are not interested in fuel or gasoline power with giant scale aircraft. I also believe that with the phenomenal advances in battery chemistry, as well as the similar advances in brushless motor and ESC availability, not to mention the downward escalation in cost of all these components, I can't help but believe that bigger electric powered RC models will become more and more popular. Won't the flying fields be easier to procure as a side benefit ??

I'm rambling .......

Russ :)

[Flash Gordon]

How big would a quarter scale Zagi be?

[MiniBoy]

How big would a quarter scale Zagi be?
Well, a Zagi is a flying wing, and the first true-to-life flying wing that comes to my mind is a B-2 Bomber.

http://www.aerospaceweb.org/aircraft/bomber/b2/

At 172 ft. wingspan, a quarter scale model of a B-2 Bomber would be 43 ft. wingspan ..

Russ :)

[Mr. Wiz]

Well, a Zagi is a flying wing, and the first true-to-life flying wing that comes to my mind is a B-2 Bomber.

The Horten Brothers would be a little insulted by that comment.

[MiniBoy]

The Horten Brothers would be a little insulted by that comment.
And why would that be ?

[Mr. Wiz]

And why would that be ?

Simple, you didn't think of them and their flying wing first. ;)

[MiniBoy]

Simple, you didn't think of them and their flying wing first. ;)
As everyone thinks of the Wright Brothers and the Wright Flyer when they discuss bi-planes ??

How far off topic are we here ?

Russ

[Mr. Wiz]

As everyone thinks of the Wright Brothers and the Wright Flyer when they discuss bi-planes ??

How far off topic are we here ?

Russ

Not exactly. I misread what you first wrote.

Yeah, we're pretty far off topic.

Wiz

[MiniBoy]

Unsubscribed ....

[Looooeeee!]

How about models that fit inside the rules but outside the box. Ivan Pettygrew's big floaty, stick built scale models come to mind here. Or for that matter my 56" WS Peter Rake Brisfit is darn close to the size to almost quality for IMAA regulations. Yet when finished I expect it to weigh less than than 3 pounds. And it will be powered by 180 watts of power.

Big doesn't neccesarily mean you gotta stick a big Hacker geared combo or a 3 cylinder Saito in the nose.

[Martin Irvine]

Looooeeeee!, personally I think models should meet the rules AND fit "the box". Geeeez, I hate the way that sounds, but long winged planes that just get over the limit sort of spoil the spirit of the IMAA. That's just me and I'm certainly not going to complain if I see one of them at an event. Anyway, I don't worry about it too much - I have too many airplanes and can fly at almost any event!:D:D

Martin

[Looooeeee!]

I've no problem with that Martin, but you have to admit your own Nieuport 10 and 12 come close to being "outside the box". Have you seen any of Ivan Pettygrew's models fly? They have a flight presence that has no need of being ponderous in mass.

[Thomas B]

I've no problem with that Martin, but you have to admit your own Nieuport 10 and 12 come close to being "outside the box". Have you seen any of Ivan Pettygrew's models fly? They have a flight presence that has no need of being ponderous in mass.

the nice thing about the standard sizes of giant sale models...80" monoplane, 60" biplane and true 1/4 scale....is that there is no requirement for the models to be "ponderous in mass"

I think that flight presense is very similar on a 8 lb 80" model as compared to a 16 lb 80" model, with one exception. The lighter model can be more affected by turbulence, sometimes spoiling the more gracefull and unaffected flight it might have if it were a bit more massy.

Large light models are just as welcome and as legal at giant scale events as large heavy models.

Each has advantages and disadvantages.

[Martin Irvine]

I guess I'd consider the N.12 the bottom end of what I'll take to a giant scale meet. But you can judge it yourself.

Martin

[Martin Irvine]

Whoops. Let's try that again.

(PS, I'm an average sized guy!)

[pdawg]

It is my hope that this forum will present interesting large scale aircraft and power systems. The IMAA rules seem applicable for this for this forum but it should in my opinion be used only as a general guideline. I particularly want to see high performance scale aircraft! Few will disagree that there is a huge difference between an 80" Piper Cub and an 80" P-51.

By strictly sticking to the IMAA rules this forum will be encouraging lightly loaded aircraft. Electrics are simply exponentially expensive as you get larger. There might be an increase in 1/5 scale warbirds in the future but currently there are few. Some provision should be made so that high wingloading models (warbirds, racers, etc), even if 1/6 scale be allowed. Some of you Giant Scale Squadron members might consider lightening up on your strict rules if you want to see more than a Piper Cub.

[cyclops2]

Yes. You are part of the gang. You do , or did exist.


What about the WW II Horten flying wing bombers that were to bomb the USA ? They were actually designed and approved for use.

Real Prototypes OK ?

[Thomas B]

Remember, it does not have to be a scale model, so fantasy scale and unflown prototypes are completely OK, as are 1/4 scale anythings.

Giant scale refers to the scale (size) of the model, not just to scale models.

[benlo2d]

Doesn't have to be 1/4 scale as long as the size fits . My 1/6
scale Beaver qualifys (96" ws).

[Thomas B]

The "anything 1/4 scale" comment actually refers to 1/4 scale models that have a span of less than 80, or 60 for biplanes.

As long as it is true 1/4 scale, or larger, it makes the cut reguardless of wingspan.

[Thomas B]

....

[pdawg]

Thomas B,

How many "legal" electric models do you have that can be mentioned in this forum?

[benlo2d]

Peterpont youhave locked out PM's.
Ben

[Ralph Weaver]

Funny following this thread to think that the first time I showed up at an IMAA event with an electric they would not allow be to fly even though the plane met all the rules. Said I was violating the spirit of IMAA and if I tried to enter, they would find some reason to disqualify the plane on safety grounds.

Since then I've avoided the "mines bigger than yours, so I must be better than you" crowd. Let's not sink to that level here.

[Coastwatcher]

Ralph,

That is amazing story about turning down your electric. Hard to believe .......But I guess it takes all kinds to make the world go round.

Fred

[Thomas B]

Thomas B,

How many "legal" electric models do you have that can be mentioned in this forum?

I am not sure why you feel a need to ask, but here is the current list

1/5 scale Pica Waco YMF, span of 72", currently being completed. X-motor 6360-11, 90 amp Esky HV controller, 12s2P A123 cells.

1/4 scale Monnet Moni with a span of 78", recently converted to electric. It makes the" true 1/4 scale cut.

1/4 scale Cri-Cri. while it checks in with a mere 50" span, it makes the true 1/4 scale cut, even if the power is two speed 400s.

The last two meet the letter of the "rule", if not the type of model that needs large and typically more expensive power system components and is more likely to be discussed in here.

There are several more large models coming in the future....:)

[Thomas B]

Funny following this thread to think that the first time I showed up at an IMAA event with an electric they would not allow be to fly even though the plane met all the rules. Said I was violating the spirit of IMAA and if I tried to enter, they would find some reason to disqualify the plane on safety grounds.

Since then I've avoided the "mines bigger than yours, so I must be better than you" crowd. Let's not sink to that level here.

That would not have happened at the local giant meets. My smaller 1/4 scale models were always welcome.

[pdawg]

I am not sure why you feel a need to ask, but here is the current list



Its important to me because you are very vocal about defining the legal parameters of this forum according to the IMAA rules. I personally feel as though many viewers just want to see large scale projects in the spirit of the forum title. Your voice is however being heard because you have such a strong opinion and are freely willing to voice it. A 1/4 scale, 50" ws speed 400 powered homebuilt is not in the spirit of a giant scale electric forum. I find it hard to believe that your model would be welcomed into this forum while a 1/5 Hughes racer which is heavier, more powerful, and more complicated would not be welcomed? Am I crazy or is a relaxed definition of giant scale too much to ask for?

[Thomas B]

I have flown giant scale on and off since 1977, both large models and smaller 1/4 scale models.

The rules for IMAA type events have worked well for a long time and I see no need to change them. The people that started this discussion forum are apparaently of the same mind.

I did not set the rules for this forum, but I happen to agree with them.

The smaller models are way down at the left end of the overall bell curve of participating models and obviously will not be a large part of this forum. I do not plan on discussing my smaller models at any length in here, but I don't have any issue with those that want to.

If a few smaller lighter 1/4 scale type models do get discussed in here, will it really take away from the other discussions?

It is a good set of rules that have been proven in practice. In terms of fly in activity, I think it is fun to have a couple of smaller 1/4 scale models mixed in with the large numbers of giant scale Cubs and 1/5 scale fighters, just to lend a little seasoning to the mix.

If someone wants to discuss a 1/5 scale Hughes racer in here, I will be the last to complain.

Your mileage may certainly vary.

[jonnyjetprop]

Guys, try switching to decaf :rolleyes:

Why the IMAA guidelines? Because it is an industry standard. Is it perfect, no. This topic was beat to deaf when we were forming the forum.

Will threads be kicked out because they don't quite measure up. It's not for me to say. It's the moderator's call. Looking at other forums, I haven't seen that many non- for sale threads being moved.

As for an electric model being denied flown at an IMAA event, they will always be some guy who has a problem with electrics. I have them at my club also. In gerneral, the IMAA guys are some of the most layed back around. I enjoyed the fun fly atmosphere when I flew large glow and I look forward to doing it again with a large electric. If only the washing machine hadn't broken :censored:

John