Sailplane Radios

[schrederman]

I should maybe post this in the Radio Section but I really wanted to post it here, to get TD pilot's opinions... because I fly thermal-duration gliders, and nothing else.

I know a lot of people fly the JR radios out there. My problem is I have had a Hitec for a long time and it's time to replace the transmitter with something that will fly full house sailplanes well. I have a first-class FCC license (now called a General RTO license), and I can't keep up with whose shift is negative and whose is positive... I just don't have that kind of time. Anyway all my airborne stuff is geared toward the Hitec transmitter so I am probably going the Futaba direction. My other excuse is that I want a moldie someday soon so I am again being the cheap dirty sob (sweet ol' boy) that I always am... and the Futaba is much less expensive than the JR 9303... and I won't have to buy 5 receivers... unless I'm making a mistake going this way.

So, not to start a war, but if you feel I'm going in the right direction, please tell me why. Conversely, if you think I'm joining the dark side of the force... again, tell me why. I don't need any Fuatabashin' or JRRippin'... just good laymans terms about technical superiority, or program difficulty, or even ease of use while flying. I am going to order this later this week, helicopter version from everything I've seen, so fire away... I need all the help I can get. Again being cheap, I just want to do this once... :eek:

Thanks in advance and let's keep it civil... please. I'm in your debt already.


Jack Womack

[cody303]

The Airtronics Stylus is selectable between positive, negative shift and FM, PCM. It is a very well thought out radio it will do everything you want and more, is easy to program, and you can find one for really cheap used. It is defiantly worth taking a look into.

Little Cody

[Flying-Addict]

I flew Futaba and Hi-tech for years, they worked just fine, and then switched to JR..no real reason why I did it. I just wanted to try them out. I actually liked how the cases looked and the ergonomics compared to Futaba's...maybe a dumb reason, but oh well...I started out with an XP8103 heli version and didn't like the programming on it. After a couple of years I bought a sailplane version 9303 and absolutely love it. Very easy to program (I need simplicity when it comes to programming), I love the scroll wheel, and it has all the functions I need. I feel the switches are laid out very well also and labeled with the flight modes, etc. I've combined my timer switch/button with elevator preset for my dlgs, so I always get a timed flight right off launch...kind of cool (I imagine you can do this with other radios as well).

There, no bashing or anything. :D I just simply prefer JR now.

One thing that's kind of cool are the autoshift receivers now that can work for both...just in case you decide you want to venture...to the other side that is... :eek:

F/A

[nxtdoor]

Cody is right; there is no radio that has the flexibility and works well and easy with gliders as the Stylus.

Jeff

[DT56]

text

[ChuckA]

I have owned Micropro, Futaba, and Hitec transmitters and now use Evo. I will never go back. The Evo will do anything you want and is shift selectable so you can use all your old receivers. I never understood Futaba or Hitec programming and always had to use the manual or ask somebody to help if I needed to make a change at the field. Evo programming is completely different but I understand the logic behind the program so don't need the manual unless I want to try something completely different.

[nuevo]

JW,

Seriously, if you fly full-scale gliders, how can spending for for a TX and a few receivers even close to bother you wallet?

I've owned a Stylus for years, and new fly a 9303. Both will do what you want, and are very capable. The Stylus (you'd better buy the GLID card) will talk to any brand and shift of FM receiver out there.

[Vito]

I went through a similar dilemma last summer. I am a cheap so and so and looked at many used Txs. I think I liked the EVO concept but the price was just too high for me to justify. I went with Futaba 9CAS. I was able to emulate Phil Barnes setup for my DLG and everything else I can dream up. Programming was more complex that my older Futaba, but I played with it and it is now second nature. I found a good price on Tx only and sprung for the synthesized module. The module allows me to fly my planes that are on other channels without changing crystals. I figure the savings in replacing crystals paid for the selectable module. The selectable module came in handy with a RTF plane that I bought at my club's flea market. I just selected the channel for the receiver in the new plane and flew it the next day. No hunting for a RX crystal for the specific receiver brand and waiting for delivery.
I hope this helps.
Vito

[Ed Franz]

The new Hitec 9 channel should be out soon. Mot too sure when, but should be worth the wait. I fly a Evo 12 now and love it.

Ed

[kablair]

Jack,
I returned to this hobby a year ago after sitting out for about seven years. At the time I dropped out, I had a Stylus and was very happy with it. I won't bore you with the stats, but it met all my needs - particularly when compared to the complexity of programming similar level Futaba radios. I was also using the 94141 servos and found it easier to match Airtronics servos and radios together.

Fast forward to last year... I bought a 9303 after carefully considering the Stylus. The two key considerations were - ease of programming and what the rest of the local group is using.

'Ease of programming' is highly subjective. Don't trust anyone else's opinions on this as it is you who will have to program and use it, and what's easy to someone else may be very difficult to you. For me, I found that downloading the respective manuals helped me determine how 'easy' each on is to me. Obviously I thought the 9303 was easier, but no amount of reading user group postings will answer this question for you - dig into the manuals and see what you think.

At the other end of the decision spectrum is 'what everyone else is using locally'. There are a myriad of intangible benefits to using the same radio as the people you're flying with. These are all second-order effects, but if you're on the fence between two radios, go with the one your local group is using as they'll be better able to help you with tips and tricks.


One thing I did know before coming back into this hobby was not go 'cheap' on the radio. Get one that handles *everything* you think you'll ever need. This is the classic case of "buy cheap - buy twice". It hurts when you buy it, but you'll be happy for a long time afterwards.

-Keith

[bobthenuke]

FWIW, I've owned and flown with almost every "popular" brand of radio ever produced and a few not-so-popular ones. My favorite at this time is my EVO 12. Yes, it costs a bit more and it's a complete shift in paradigm as far as programming is concerned, but once I got the hang of it I find it difficult to go back to my past favorite, JR. Now, every plane I fly is programmed into it and even the ergonomics of the Asian radios seem strange. I love it's configuration flexibility and now wonder how I ever did without it, or without something quite similar in physical and programming architecture.

Keith is absolutely correct in bringing up the point that using a brand common with your flying buddies is a big plus. I had a simple programming issue with my EVO that I couldn't get with (I guess we now call these "senior moments") and until one of the guys in a club I recently joined was able to show me with his EVO how it works, I was stuck. I think it I just sat down and gave it a lot of thought I would've eventually had the light bulb turn on, but I like to think that I get paid for deep thought at my job and don't like to have to strain my few remaining operational brain cells with leisure time *fun* issues. I guess I'm just getting lazy.

There are, of course, negatives. It would be unfair to mention that when I first bought it the battery pack was found to be defective and after two years now the antenna is falling apart! I immediately replaced the pack myself with a custom built pack and recently ordered a Becker antenna, not an inexpensive alternative...hopefully this will last longer. I've *never* encountered something like this before in my 45 years of RC! Quality control issues can rear their ugly heads in any product, but from what I've read and experienced, EVO seems to have the lion's share. I still can't let go of it, however. :)

My opinions only,

Cheers, bob

[neonbutterfly]

hi...futaba 9C gets my vote....that is what i fly for all my planes.....programming is not that difficult....this past flying season i started using a transmitter tray and really love it.....that way i can get to the switches i need and not have to hold the radio.....

before the tray i installed the grip things that futaba sells on the sides of the tx and that made a difference....if you like to hold the tx.....i love the tray for all my flying.....i feel that you can be more precise with your control...
.i also have the memory module so that i can have 14 different planes in programmed in....

last year i purchased the TX rf module so that i can switch frequencies.....i still have to change the crystal in my receivers.....but it saves a lot of hassle at a contest etc.....

i reco purchasing another tx battery pack....i frequently have to change packs on those good soaring days....i use a 1300 mah..nimh pack in addition to the supplied nicad pack...

i also like the timers....i have one timer as a count up timer....so that i don't need a stop watch when flying alone....you can also program the timer to count down....say for a 10 minute flight etc.....

for my elec sailplanes i use the count down timer as a throttle timer....that way i know how many seconds i was under power for a specific flight...

those are my thoughts and ramblings....hope they help!!!

bob :confused:

[Will M]

The Evo just "feels" right in my hands - easy to hold and easy to use. I'm new in the hobby and don't have much experience, but the Hitec the Evo replaced was hard for me to set up and felt like a brick.

[chronos333]

This is a no brainer buy an EVO if you can afford one.
I have a 9C and I use it at 120% (it means that I am limited by its software).
Nothing beats multiplex for all glider related electronics (servos/rx/tx)

[F3X]

On Servocity if you buy a Futaba 9C and add a synth TX module and Synth RX you are at 499.00

I sell the 9303 with a synth TX module and a smaller Synth RX and 3 DS368BB digital servos for your new moldie for 630.00.

If you add those same 3 digital servos to the Futaba 9c price you are at 694.00.

Now all your Hitec shift RX will not work but you can sell or trade these easily for positive shift units AND if your interested you can go to Ham band or the new 2.4G with the JR. I think the 9303 has more options, more flexibility and lower cost in the end. Plus the 9303 is more capable if you ever need it down the road. Plus the resale of a 9303 is better than a 9C.

One more thing: The JR is upgradable to new software. They havd added a small upgrade to the new sets and the old ones can be sent in. Futaba will sell you a new TX. Remember when the 9C had issues and they fixed it with a new 9C and the guys were left out in the cold. Not with JR

[Phoebusflyer]

Hey Jack, My JR beats the pants off my old 4 channel Kraft of many, many years ago!!!!!

[may fly]

Jack,

I switched to MPX last year. I've got an older Cockpit that is great for simpler gliders. It will fly four servo wings, but it is kind of awkward at that so I purchased an Evo for the Genie I'm building. I'll second all the good things the others have said about the Evo. In addition I really like the long sticks that come with it. I've been flying mine with a long stick on the right and the std stick on the left and using a neck strap. I find control to be much more percise like this and it takes the weight of the transmitter off my hands without messing with a tray. The Evo has several timers with big easy to read numbers too. Owerall, a real easy to use transmitter that will do anything I can think of. Reciever shift would be no problem for you since it can do either. Hobby Horse has the best prices that I've found. All my JR and Futaba stuff was old so I can't offer any compairson to their new equipment. I think some flyers shy away from MPX because of the different programing, but I found it a little hard a first, then everything seemed to click and now it is real easy.
Bill

[schrederman]

Thanks for the replies. I am looking at the EVO 9s but I have been told several horror stories of problems from the Albuquerque club about destroying models, etc. They seem to be having more quality control issues than the others since Hitec bought them out. There's also rumor of discontinuance of the brand.

It's easy to see that the Stylus crowd wouldn't do anything else... and I really hadn't considered that radio, but I'll look hard at it, too. I think th ebest advise is to look at the programming manuals and detremine from that.

I'll continue to look here so if you have information for me, please continue to post.

Again, thanks for all the info. It made for an eye-opening read...

Jack

[OVSS Boss]

Jack, contact Mark Miller, he has my used Stylus for sale i think, it is in good shape and just had the tune up about two years ago.

Marc

[davidjensen]

One other thing to consider is the manufactures service departments. The JR service center is Chanpaign is top rate. They have always done a great job when ever I send something to them. Also the 9303 has completely new sailplane programming which is very different and very easy to use. You can download the JR 9303 user manuals from the Horizon web site

[schrederman]

I wonder why in the heck JR doesn't make their transmitters shift selectable... If that were the case, this would be a done deal. I have 2 new receivers that haven't even flown yet... Yep there's that cheap side of me comin' out again... :eek:

JW

[nuevo]

I wonder why in the heck JR doesn't make their transmitters shift selectable... If that were the case, this would be a done deal.

JR doesn't make their transmitters shift-selectable for the same reason Futaba(1) doesn't. Both have a large market presence, and do not feel the need to. Airtronics, Hitec, Multiplex on the other hand are relatively small players (in the US), and thus feel the need to have these features to attract the JR/Futaba crowd.

Having owned both the Stylus and 9303 each for 3 years, I can say each will do the job of full-house sailplanes. Each has some strengths & weaknesses, but both are superior to other radios out there. The Evo is very "different" in programming, and is almost as capable. For Evo help/info, look at the radio forum.

There is a lot of value to having a TX that any of your "computer literate" buddies have.

(1) Futaba does have shift-selectable transmitter, but it costs ~$2k.

[dharban]

Jack,

For my two cents worth, I like the 9303. I think all the mainstream brands can be made to wiggle the right surfaces in the right direction and right amount most of the time. In that regard the 9303 is pretty easy to use and works well. I am very impressed with JR service and support. And I am very impressed with the way JR supports RC Soaring -- both with equipment designed with soaring in mind and with support and sponsorship of soaring events. They have put their money where their mouth is in every respect.

As to the problem of replacing receivers, I obviously went through that when I switched from Hitec. It hurt a little, but it hurts a lot less now with JR's synth receivers. I have switched entirely to the 790 and like its failsafe features and its switchable frequency capability. I can now fly any plane I want, anywhere I want any time I want. (absolute frequency switching capability also comes in handy when you find yourself on a busy frequency at a contest.)

Don

P.S. Hope to see you at the Mid-South -- Missed you at SWC.

[Michael Heer]

I have recently been going much deeper with learning the capabilities of my JR 9303 for the second part of my Stork 2 Pro review and I have been so impressed I Have been reprogramming all of my Thermal gliders to obtain more detailed control. The info they have on line at Horizon's site has been most helpful. <ike

[merlinmurph]

As a novice pilot (1 year), I have nothing to contribute here, but please keep the conversation going. My Optic 6 will be full of models soon, and I'm starting to consider my next radio. I really got into sailplanes last year (TD, HL, and slope), and am looking for a sailplane-oriented radio. I'm considering the EVO 9 and JR 9303, though I didn't realize the JR couldn't do both pos and neg shift.

Thanks guys, keep it up,
Merlinmurph

[Resurgam]

I'd add a vote for an EVO 9 as far as superior programming capability is concerned. I like the ergonomics as well, it just seems comfortable to hold. EVOs are quite popular at my club, and I have seen just one problem with one (not mine) - it put up a "No RF" message and had to be sent back to clear the problem. It seems that Hitec believes the fix is permanent - there's a thread somewhere on RC Groups.

[Robglover]

Nobody has said anything much about the Futaba 14MZ so here goes...

I've used every brand and type of radio mentioned thus far in this thread. I flew Airtronics Visions and Stylus for years with good success, then moved to the Evo and then to the 9303, also with some success. All were, and are, great radios.

I've also used some that have not been mentioned, and specifically the Multiplex Profi 4000 should be mentioned as a part of this discussion. Also a great radio, the programming is very capable and well thought out, better than anything else out there except the MZ14. The ergonomics don't work for me, but that's a personal thing.

Right now the 9303 is the best radio for the money, for full house sailplanes. It has great stuff for sailplanes, and it works well for helicopters and power planes as well. The folks at Horizon are doing a great job of supporting sailplane flyers, which is definitely worth something to me. The lack of shift select is an issue for some, but it's pretty minor in the grand scheme of things. Somebody will always buy the old used receivers if you need to swap over.

But if price is no object then the Futaba MZ14 is the best radio. It will do it all, and the programming environment is as good as the older Futabas were bad. I've had to get over many years of prejudice against Futaba, but this radio is a better radio than anything else I've had. It is pretty easy to set the radio up to do anything you can think of. Shift select and support for Futaba PCM receivers is built in. It's easy to save programming to the flash card, and then to your PC if desired. Switches and sticks are easily reconfigured, you don't even have to open the case to do so. I love the large screen, and lithium transmitter batteries. Sanyo camcorder battery NP-F570 slides right in and gives you several hours of use. 8 flight modes, which you can name whatever you like and prioritize however you'd like is a great thing. And being able to tie sound files to switch or stick actions is giving me unending joy.

Which radio should you get? Go for the nicest one that you can easily afford. Save a few bucks for the other good things in life and go fly.

[mlee8249]

JW,

I'm going to approach this on a value basis, being that you mentioned being cheap, dirty and a sweet ol' boy.

I have flown the Futaba 7-UAP, 8-UAP and 9-CAP radios, plus the 9303 from JR, the Stylus and the EVO. I liked the ergonomics of the Futaba and JR, but that is a personal choice. I preferred the 9-CAP at first because it has some nice slider switches on the left and right sides that have an audible "beep" when you center them up. I was using the slider for my camber/reflex switch, and without the beep, I would not know exactly where the trailing edge was. So that was pretty golden for me. The 9-CAP is easy and fast to program, especially with the rotary dial adjustment. You really don't have to look at the numbers on the display to program up, unless you're matching one flight control to another.

On the JR 9303, what I like about this one is there are also side sliders, and these have a detent you can feel when the switch hits center, and that works as good as the audible beep. It does not have the rotary dial adjustment, instead it uses a rolling cylinder, which is almost as fast. But what made me stay with the 9303 is the fact that this radio has flight condition modes that allows you to make a completely different aircraft set-up with the flip of a switch. The 9303 has a sailplane version that shows a normal mode, plus launch, speed, land and thermal modes. (All 9303 models can do this, but the switch labels are changed for heli or aerobatic use)

The ability to switch aircraft modes can be of great assistance. For example, on my launch mode, I have not only the trailing edge cambered, but I also have the aileron movement reduced and rudder movement increased for maximum control on launch up the line. In the speed mode, I have the rudder separated from being mixed to the ailerons, the trailing edge kicked up and and the elevator throw reduced. These are just examples of how I set mine up. But the flexibility of this radio is what really sold me. I was just like you with a hefty investment in negative shift receivers...at least 20 of them! When I switched over, I sold most of the recievers here on the Groups and bought replacements here on the Groups. No, it wasn't break even, but it was sure better than brand new. I had only one receiver that failed, and it was because UPS found something to step on while in transit. Luckily, the plane was a flat foamie and not a high zoot model.

Both the 9303 and 9-CAPs are in the same dollar range when you look at what they come with. Used 9-CAPs units can be purchased fairly low, about $350 to $390.00 from what I have seen. 9303 units have not dropped down that low on the used market. The EVO is a great radio, but different to program. That's an opinion and not a fact. It is quite flexible and has some unusual features that lend themselves well to what we do. The physical layout is designed more for flying from a tray or hanging from a strap, but that's just style. The Airtronics Stylus with a sailplane module in it works very well, is fairly heavy in weight, and has good capabilities. But that radio design is now some 10 years old or more and will soon go the way of the dinosaur (just a prediction, not a fact).

Okay, dude, there's smoe more garbage to think about.

Mike Lee

[schrederman]

I thought it was funny that someone thinks that because I fly a full-scale sailplane that I can afford anything I want... The fact is that I could afford several moldies, a 14MZ with a backup, etc...etc... if I DIDN'T fly a full-scale... I'm still chewin' on it.

JW

[tonyestep]

Not one person has mentioned the JR 10x, which is still a terrific radio, not completely superseded by the 9303. It can do at least one thing the 9303 can't (I think), which is to put the reflex mode on the snap roll button so that you can't forget and leave the plane in reflex. I wouldn't buy one for the new price, but they're showing up used, and well worth a look in my opinion.

[aeajr]

I thought it was funny that someone thinks that because I fly a full-scale sailplane that I can afford anything I want... The fact is that I could afford several moldies, a 14MZ with a backup, etc...etc... if I DIDN'T fly a full-scale... I'm still chewin' on it.

JW

I started sailplanes with a Hitec Prism 7X. When I wanted more memory slots and better mixing I was going to get an Eclipse 7. Then I got a look at the Futaba 9C and that is what I purchased. It has served me well. I have several full house planes set up.

I think the JR 9303 is a better sailplane radio and the EVO 9 may be better than the 9C too, but both do it at higher cost. So if you are trying to keep the cost down and trying to preserve your Hitec receivers, the Futaba 9C Super would be an excellent choice at a reasonable price.

In addition, Spektrum just released a 2.4 GHz module for the 9C and the JR 9303 so either can take you into the new frequency relm.

If I was doing from scratch today, I would get the 9303, but I can't say I am sorry I got my 9C. The 9C Super is even better.

Hope that helps.

[nuevo]

I thought it was funny that someone thinks that because I fly a full-scale sailplane that I can afford anything I want... The fact is that I could afford several moldies, a 14MZ with a backup, etc...etc... if I DIDN'T fly a full-scale... I'm still chewin' on it.


Jack, I meant nothing of the sort. I never stated anything about what you can afford.

My intent was to point out the relative cost differences in equipment for full-scale and RC. Since full-scale planes often cost 20-30 times more than a good moldie, I presumed (wrongly) that the cost of an RC radio would not bother you much. I am sorry for misjudging you.

[pmackenzie]

One more thing: The JR is upgradable to new software. They havd added a small upgrade to the new sets and the old ones can be sent in. Futaba will sell you a new TX. Remember when the 9C had issues and they fixed it with a new 9C and the guys were left out in the cold. Not with JR

Do you have any details on this upgrade? Nothing on the Horizon web site about it.
Is this a throttle stick position/ mixing enable function?

Thanks,

Pat MacKenzie

P.S. schrederman- go with the 9303 :D

[schrederman]

I am sorry for misjudging you....

Jon, I didn''t feel judged or misjudged.... I was chuckling when I typed that out. Sorry if it came off wrong. I thought it was funny, and took it as kind of a joke. No harm, no foul, no sweat! :D

Jack

[Trisquire]

........But what made me stay with the 9303 is the fact that this radio has flight condition modes that allows you to make a completely different aircraft set-up with the flip of a switch...........Futaba 9-CAPs don't have flight condition modes?

Tom

[Robglover]

One more thing: The JR is upgradable to new software. They havd added a small upgrade to the new sets and the old ones can be sent in. Futaba will sell you a new TX. Remember when the 9C had issues and they fixed it with a new 9C and the guys were left out in the cold. Not with JR


Actually, with the Futaba MZ radios upgrading to new software is much easier than with the 9303. I can download the upgrade from Futaba on the web and squirt it in at home. With my 9303 I had to send the 'mitter back to JR. JR was quick with the turnaround, but I still had shipping costs and time involved.

[dlgdude]

Actually, with the Futaba MZ radios upgrading to new software is much easier than with the 9303. I can download the upgrade from Futaba on the web and squirt it in at home. With my 9303 I had to send the 'mitter back to JR. JR was quick with the turnaround, but I still had shipping costs and time involved.

Well, that's where the support of our section of the hobby comes in. I had my 9303 upgraded on the spot while attending a large glider meet. No shipping costs or time involved. Just a smile and the fact that they were there, showing support for our brand of RC endeavors....

-l

[bobthenuke]

I thought it was funny that someone thinks that because I fly a full-scale sailplane that I can afford anything I want... The fact is that I could afford several moldies, a 14MZ with a backup, etc...etc... if I DIDN'T fly a full-scale... I'm still chewin' on it.

JW

Isn't *that* the truth!

...bob

BTW, I didn't mean to make the EVO sound like a problem radio...with the couple of minor issues I've had I'd still not give it up. Someone was asking me about it this morning while we were flying and after all the questions and the answers I gave I realized just how good this thing really is, and how it's so aligned with sailplanes that it's easy to see why so many Europeans favor it. Not that any of the others are slouches...quite the contrary. It's no surprise that there are followers for every radio made. Had to chuckle at the mention of the 4 channel Kraft...those things cost about $100 per channel back then...consider the bargains we have today. :)

...bob

[nuevo]

No harm, no foul, no sweat! :D
Got it. Good deal.

[emersunn]

Did not read this whole thread so this may have been said before: fly what your buddies fly!

I have an EVO 9 and have no wishes except for someone else in my club who flies the same.

I have had Futabas and Airtronics and they do the job too.

Most people fly JR it seems.

[schrederman]

Most of the guys in Albuquerque fly EVOs. Dale Nutter is flying the Futaba 9C Super and that's where I got on that path... he's very happy with all it will do. That along with not wanting to replace 3 receivers. So I am still torn between JR, Futaba and still have some interest in the EVO. I've kind of lost interest in the Airtronics because of all the different cards and geegaws that accompany the transmitter. Synthesized RF module is a must.

Quite honestly, I really like to go home with the one that brung me. Having owned several Futaba products in the past, and never having the first complaint about any of it, kind of leads me that way. Having owned only 1 JR in the past that went for repairs twice in the first year kind of makes me wonder. However, I flew that transmitter and receiver today, seven years later, and haven't had trouble since...

Your mileage may vary... and from what I've seen posted here, it has.

So, here's the Futaba 9 C Super pros...
Cost less; won't have to buy new receivers; will do what I need to do, apparently; I've had excellent history with that brand; Those flying them seem very happy; probably won't have to do this again for 10-12 years; can get done for about $330-.

Futaba cons...
Not as widely used for sailplanes; Futaba doesn't have a "sailplane" version; worries about upgrades not being passed down; resale not as good, but haven't checked it on a % basis.

JR 9303 pros...
JR support of soaring and customers; 5 flight modes and "glider" version of transmitter; widely used among the upper eschelon of glider talent; porbably won't have to do this again for 10 12 years; better resale, possibly.

JR cons...
Cost more; will have to buy 3 receivers so I can fly all my models from 1 tranny; do I really NEED 5 flight modes?; will cost roughly twice as much receivers included.

That does it... I'm goin' back to free-flight...

Not really. I have just about decided to go with the JR because of their support of our segment of the hobby, and their support of their existing customer base. I still feel that a transmitter this sophistacted should be shift selectable. But the Futaba isn't either... I don't think. I'll be in Ft. Worth this coming week for a staff meeting. Maybe I'd better wait and see if I have a job at the end of the week...

Thanks again for all the insightful information.

Jack Womack

[pmackenzie]

; do I really NEED 5 flight modes?
What the 9303 flight modes do is make it very easy to dial in the camber settings and elevator trims to go with them.
You basically just select the mode in flight and set the trims. No programming involved at all to make changes.
I don't know if other radios work this way, but compared to my old 8103 where you had to go into the menus to tweak the camber, the 9303 is much better in the field.

Pat MacKenzie

[aeajr]

Your mileage may vary... and from what I've seen posted here, it has.

So, here's the Futaba 9 C Super pros...
Cost less; won't have to buy new receivers; will do what I need to do, apparently; I've had excellent history with that brand; Those flying them seem very happy; probably won't have to do this again for 10-12 years; can get done for about $330-.

Futaba cons...
Not as widely used for sailplanes; Futaba doesn't have a "sailplane" version; worries about upgrades not being passed down; resale not as good, but haven't checked it on a % basis.


Typically the "sailplane version" of these radios means it is packed with different servos and receiver and has nothing to do with the programing of the radio. That is true of the JR and the Futaba. Personally, unless you need the servos or another receiver, I would buy the transmitter alone, with the synth module. www.servocity.com has it that way, or you can talk to your local hobby store about that.

Most of the sailplane guys seem to prefer the H, Heli version of the radio becasue it puts the switch that controls the 3 flight modes over the left hand. I have the H version.

Difference between the 9CA and the 9CH
Both have unlimited model memory based upon the replacable memory module. Furaba sells an 6 model card. Third parties have cards that will hold 60+ models.
http://www.servocity.com/html/9cas_and_9chs_differences.html

During launch, I switch from launch to cruise about 3/4 of the way up the launch, then switch to reflex on the zoom using the left hand while I manage the plane with the right. Then back to cruise once I level the plane.

Over the left hand is also the landing mode switch which turns on the Crow/butterfly mix. So, if you count that, the radio has 4 flight modes.
During the flight the mix is off so you can't accidentially activate it in flight while using the rudder. When you are ready to land, you switch to landing mode to get the presets and crow.

When you are in each mode, any inputs to the trims are stored in that mode, so you can fine tune the trim of launch, cruise, reflex and landing from your trim swithes. The newer Super version allows you to move the landing mode switch and adds some other mixing. The original insists it be on that A switch over the left hand, which is fine with me.

I believe most people control multiple camber modes from the three way over the right hand, or from the side sliders. I don't have reflex set up. Have not felt the need.

Not pushing the 9C super, just want you to make your decision on valid info.


JR 9303 pros...
JR support of soaring and customers; 5 flight modes and "glider" version of transmitter; widely used among the upper eschelon of glider talent; porbably won't have to do this again for 10 12 years; better resale, possibly.

JR cons...
Cost more; will have to buy 3 receivers so I can fly all my models from 1 tranny; do I really NEED 5 flight modes?; will cost roughly twice as much receivers included.

Jack Womack

9303 is DEFINATELY more popular with the competition pilots, but it costs more. I consider the 9303 a competition radio and the 9C Super an advanced sport or entry level competition radio.

You get what you pay for.

[Pilebuck]

"do I really NEED 5 flight modes?"

I've been flying with a 9303 for two years; now I wouldn't go without flight modes, and wonder how I ever did.

Flight modes help facilitate tuning your model by being able to try new settings on your model without disturbinh your base set-up. Switching between the new and the old settings really helps in identifiying improvements in flight performance.

Sam

[Chipwillis]

Another nod for the 9303.

I used to have a 9c a few years ago. The 9303 is much more capable.

And as far as the flight modes go.

I have the Heli, with the Left 3 Pos. Switch controlling, launch, normal, land modes.
The right 3ps is for the normal mode submodes - reflex, normal cruise, and thermal.

You also can have camber adjustment on a slider. I have it only Left slider, but use it less and less as I get my thermal mode dialed in.

Alot of simplificaation, but much power, and you can really do different things than the standard setup.

[Pilebuck]

Chip,

Try this switch modification for the 9303: http://www.rcsoaring.com/docs/JR9303.pdf
It was not difficult to do, and a huge improvement for me.

Sam

[OVSS Boss]

Jack, I will make you a deal, go with the 9303 and I will give you your first new RX, JR770 PCM. They are great RX's and have great range.

Marc

[Chipwillis]

Thanks for the tips!..

Don't know if I will do the mods or not. I fly a bunch of stuff and getting used to switch assignments might be a pain in the butt!

Hell, once I get a program in now, I try and keep it simple as heck, so I dont forget it.

[schrederman]

JR 9303 is ordered...

Thanks for helping me make this decision. What clinched it for me was reflecting on why I was doing this with a 3-year-old transmitter... I want something that I will be able to use for a while and not need to upgrade...

Marc, I may take you up on that receiver...

Jack

[aeajr]

Good luck with is Jack. Let us know how you do, what you learn and how your contest scores increased! :)

[may fly]

Jack,

I'll bet I'm not the only builder that will be looking for some new built-up glider designs with ailerons and flaps from you now that you have the radio to do anything with the wing TE. Unless you design your own, there is not much to chose from in that area. I like your Yardbird, that might be good with deduced dihedral and flaps and ailerons added as long as the airfoil is one that works well with reflex.

Bill

[Smolik]

Hello
For the hand-held guy like me, there are plenty of good sailplane radios.
If you can do it with only 3 flight modes, the new Multiplex Cockpit-SX
has it all - and a synth , too. Priced in Europe at about 160 Euros -so under
200 U.S. Dollars. I have tested one just for 3 months for a review in a Finnish rc-magazine.
If you want more MPX Royal EVO 12 or Profi 4000 is the way to go in the ease and multitude in programming.

I have used my trusty Futaba FF7 for nearly 15 years now and it´s still going strong with Vladimirs´ Ava and Organic. I could too list also JR´s 9 and 10
channel models as good radios for TD as you have already said.
I suppose a top Futaba could be nice too -- MZ-14, if money were not
an issue to you ;)

If you were to compete at the highest level at F3J WC, take a look which
radios they have. A lot of Graupner MC-24´s really. They are the most popular tray-type radios with top pilots in Europe.

Personally I´d pick up a Multiplex-"Pizza-box" Profi --
the form follows the function .

Smolik

[F3X]

Actually, with the Futaba MZ radios upgrading to new software is much easier than with the 9303. I can download the upgrade from Futaba on the web and squirt it in at home. With my 9303 I had to send the 'mitter back to JR. JR was quick with the turnaround, but I still had shipping costs and time involved.


MZ is not a 9C or anywhere in the same ballpark in cost. Even to the 9303. So that is not fair comparison really.

I personally think that any new TX should be USB or the like so we can take upgrades and save models on line. Our TX are only 20 years behind the times :D

[Smolik]

I personally think that any new TX should be USB or the like so we can take upgrades and save models on line. Our TX are only 20 years behind the times by FX3

Take a look at the MPX Evo and Cockpit-Sx features: it´s possible
already to upgrade your ( radio´s) software via internet.
Graupner/JR and Futaba have usually chosen a more traditional
way : a factory upgrade ( what cost you)

Smolik

[rdwoebke]

Hello
For the hand-held guy like me, there are plenty of good sailplane radios.
If you can do it with only 3 flight modes, the new Multiplex Cockpit-SX
has it all - and a synth , too. Priced in Europe at about 160 Euros -so under
200 U.S. Dollars.
Smolik

Smolik,

Unfortunatly, the Cockpit-SX is not for sale in the USA... :-( I have the original Cockpit-MM. Like it a lot, but it does not have the strong sailplane functions. One thing I really like about it (and more later) is it has a nice center mounted slider. Mounted between the two sticks. I use it as a sort of variable elevator trim when flying RES planes. Use it to slide in a bit of up elevator when doing constant turning to take work off the thumbs/fingers. It has a sort of "bump" when you get back to center, so you can easily know when you have disengaged it. I see the SX does not have the slider...


I personally think that any new TX should be USB or the like so we can take upgrades and save models on line. Our TX are only 20 years behind the times :D

Can you not do that with a 9303 and the PC link? I bought my Cockpit because I was running out of space on my JR 783. Even the lowly Cockpit-MM has a PC link and I can save programs on the PC and friends can send you model programs to download.

Ryan

[Smolik]

One thing I really like about it (and more later) is it has a nice center mounted slider. Mounted between the two sticks. I use it as a sort of variable elevator trim when flying RES planes. Use it to slide in a bit of up elevator when doing constant turning to take work off the thumbs/fingers. It has a sort of "bump" when you get back to center, so you can easily know when you have disengaged it. I see the SX does not have the slider..

Take a look at the sides of Cockpit-SX: there is a 2-way-lever slider on
both sides for that function- they are very easy to use with your finger- tips.
If you liked the ergonomics of the Cockpit , the SX is even better , I liked it
more than the ergo of much more expensive Royal Evo :)

Hope that Hitec/MPX will soon sell SX´s also to the States ... at the same
price that Futaba 7 or even Hitec 7 are , but with more sailplane -features-
even you can slow-down the change of the flight -mode between 1 and 3 secs....

Smolik

PS. The one reason why you don´t already have Cockpit-SX for sale is
the frequence-differences between U.S./Japan and Europe- we
have the 35 and 40 MHz- bands, not 72 .

[OVSS Boss]

Where do I need to send it Jack?

[Trisquire]

...

[badog65]

Why doesnt Airtronics upgrade the stylus , put on a usb port like f3X suggested. Intergrate a pc interface, so you cold program from your laptop or pc. Intergrate the glider and 50 model card to an internal chip. And charge less than the current model!!!!!

Badog65

[Trisquire]

Can you not do that with a 9303 and the PC link? I bought my Cockpit because I was running out of space on my JR 783. Even the lowly Cockpit-MM has a PC link and I can save programs on the PC and friends can send you model programs to download.

RyanThis is a long shot, but I'll ask anyway. Can you program a Multiplex transmitter on your PC, like you would program Castle Creations speed control?

Tom

[rdwoebke]

This is a long shot, but I'll ask anyway. Can you program a Multiplex transmitter on your PC, like you would program Castle Creations speed control?


Tom,

I don't know anything about programing a Castle Creations ESC, but you can program a Multiplex transmitter on your PC.

Ryan

[Trisquire]

Thanks Ryan. I think you've created a Multiplex customer.

Tom


FYI. You can get a "phoenix link" from CC that plugs into your USB port and into the receiver plug of your ESC. Then, on a little GUI interface, you can program the shut-off voltage, brake, soft-start, etc.

[rdwoebke]

FYI. You can get a "phoenix link" from CC that plugs into your USB port and into the receiver plug of your ESC. Then, on a little GUI interface, you can program the shut-off voltage, brake, soft-start, etc.

I figured as much. I only have one brushless ESC at this point. Sounds like a handy feature though. Or like the Jeti spin features.

Anyhow, I suspect if you investigate the Multiplex Evo, it is even better than the Cockpit screen shot I posted. In honesty, I rarely setup a model using that PC interface, but I can assure you it is a great feature to be able to back models up, and I had a buddy with a Cockpit and we would compare setups on models (you can send each other model files).

Now that said, over the past 6 months I have been using my JR 783 more often, because it has more advanced mixes (free mixes) compared to the Cockpit.... Now if I had an Evo instead..... :-)

Ryan

[tonyestep]

Since my last post I have had a good look at the 9303, and I'd reiterate my previous comment that you should consider the JR 10x. The 9303 can do it all, but if you are the geeky sort like me, who appreciates a wide range of flexibility, you'll probably think the 10x does it better.

[bobthenuke]

Did not read this whole thread so this may have been said before: fly what your buddies fly!

I have an EVO 9 and have no wishes except for someone else in my club who flies the same.

I have had Futabas and Airtronics and they do the job too.

Most people fly JR it seems.

>poof< Your wish came true, Paul. :)

[davidjensen]

The JR 10X is better if you only fly one type of aircraft. If you use a radio to fly power planks, gliders, shock flyers, heli's and combat wings the 10 model memory is limiting. Also the programming is in the 10X is specific to the radio type. The 10X heli does not have the sailplane software or the plank software. You can mix and get whatever you want but the 9303 programming for sailplanes is superior hands down.

[schrederman]

This has been a good thread. It's really opened my eyes to a lot of things. I looked at a lot of programming stuff, and what I could make the most sence of without holding it in my hands was on the 9303, and the 9C. I was amazed at the percentage of folks that fly the JR , and that sent me PMs and so on about why. Again, I didn't want to be disappointed. I gave up a good model to get this so I went on and bit the bullet.

The best suggestion came from my OFB Steve in Houston. He sent me a pic of an Orbit system from the mid 60s... Those guys are always here for me...

My new 9303 will be at my house by Wednesday... and I'm stuck in Ft. Worth until Friday morning... BUMMER!

Thanks again everyone... and if it's beneficial, keep it going. Itmay help someone else make an informed decision, based on good information, and their needs...

Jack

[F3X]

Since my last post I have had a good look at the 9303, and I'd reiterate my previous comment that you should consider the JR 10x. The 9303 can do it all, but if you are the geeky sort like me, who appreciates a wide range of flexibility, you'll probably think the 10x does it better.

I LOVE the 10x for the case and solid feel. It is the best holding TX I ever had but the programming for sailplanes is difficult and not intuitive. For the power pilot it’s the bomb but the 9303 will program circles around it for sailplanes without using any free mixers and if you need something special you have 6 free mixes to choose from plus flight modes. Now put the 9303 (or better the Graupner MC24) software in the 10X case and I am a happy man!

Been there done that.

Tom "JR sponsored pilot" Copp

[rdwoebke]

I'm probably not going to buy a new TX for a while (I like the Cockpit and the 783, and I'm not exactly overflush with cash). But I always hoped to buy another JR, because of the support JR gives to the midwest soaring events. That said, I really can't see buying any TX that does not have a PC backup option (and that was the top reason I bought the Cockpit). I thought the advanced JR radios had this feature? The reason I bought the Cockpit in 2001 was I could get a great deal on it TX only (at the time, below $160), it was light, and it had a PC link option.

Oh, and my next transmitter will for sure have flight modes (which the 93 and the Evo both have).

Ryan

[pmackenzie]

For backing up the 9303 there is the Datasafe2 (http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=JRPA301) from Horizon, or the DataXchange (http://www.sussex-model-centre.co.uk/shopexd.asp?id=2667) from the UK.

The DataXchange gives you some on screen editing capability, and you can use it to transfer older 8103 and 388 models to your 9303.

The transfer function from 8103 to 9303 works quite well for Acro, reasonably well for Heli, but not very well for gliders.
I guess the changes to the glider programming that makes the 9303 such a good glider radio were too extensive.

(All my Acro models transfered perfectly. The heli ones were a bit messed up because the 8103 has 5 point curves, and the 9303 7 points ones
To fix them all I had to do was fill in the missing points. This program saved me a lot of time)

The ability to back up is critical with up to 30 models in memory. Just think how much time is spent on each one tweaking the settings.

Both programs have slightly clumsy user interfaces, but the DataXchange is the better of the two.

(To be fair, I have the older DataXchange that won't work on the 9303. The new software might have been improved.)

Pat MacKenzie

[mstone]

Tom,

Soon you will be able to get the MC-24 software in the 9303 case.

Graunper MX-24 (https://shop.graupner.de/webuerp/servlet/AI?ARTN=4748.77)

[F3X]

Tom,

Soon you will be able to get the MC-24 software in the 9303 case.

Graunper MX-24 (https://shop.graupner.de/webuerp/servlet/AI?ARTN=4748.77)


That’s real SWEET!

I think the sticker shock will give some Americans a heart attack!
It uses on board PLL synth so it will not run on 50 or 72mhz. With 2.4g around the corner I think I would have to hold off on a 1000.00+ TX purchase for a while.

But this is a big step for Graupner in making a hand held TX with their best software.

[schrederman]

... it got here Wednesday, but I have no receivers... they were backordered...

But... there's always one of those... I gotta tell you that I am really STOKED about my new radio... :D :D :D :D :D ... I'm glad I went this way. I will probably fly this radio in tomorrow's contest at Albuquerque, just to start getting the feel of it in my hands. Almost wasted on an RES ship... It's really beautidul...

Jack

I have 1 JR receiver in my Hawk... I'll get by...

[schrederman]

Oh, yeah, there'll be a built-up full house or two, but I really want to start bagging, too...

Jack

[schrederman]

So... what chrystal do I order for a JR R770S receiver?

Thanks Marc... you sir are a Steely-eyed Missle Man...

Jack

[OVSS Boss]

I try Jack...

Hey, my e-mails do not get to you, what is up??

[schrederman]

Marc,

I don't know. I just tried to email you. Try through regular email at schrederman@yahoo.com.

Jack

[OVSS Boss]

Jack, I entered the e-mail address again to see if I had it wrong somehow, look for one.

M

[chan1pro]

Airtronics Stylus Transmitter for sale.

First off, this radio performs flawlessly. I have flown sailplanes to the limits of my vision with no problems.

It has a set of 1100mah & 700 batteries for the Transmitter.

The Stylus is an 8-ch radio that is very flexible. It has cards that can be switched out to adapt to specific functions such as acrobatic airplane, helicopter, and sailplanes. I am including the Sailplane Card, 50 Memory Card, Helicopter Card & Hard case.

It has lots of knobs and sliders and switches that can be reassigned, and programmed for an amazing array of functions. I loved it for flying discus launch gliders. But it will do most anything.

The Stylus also uses modules that can be switched out for different frequencies. I am including 4 modules on channel 18, 29, 49 and 54. The tx also does shift select and PCM, so you can use almost any rx with it.

$429.95 + Shipping and insured. Papal preferred.

817-504-7691