Good All-Around Thermal Glider?

[Buzz_Man]

Hello, I've always wanted to get into thermal gliders and now I have a car that's big enough to carry something "reasonable".

I already know how to fly r/c planes and here are some of my criteria:


pre-built
durable
flies well
not larger than 6' wingspan
ability to carry a ~4 oz of camera equipment


I was considering getting one of these but it's such a low cost, it seems like it might be too heavy:

http://www.hobby-lobby.com/images/mpx4205.jpg

Where I live and work there are a bunch of nice places which would probably provide lots of lift in the upcoming months - right now, it's pretty windy.

Also, could anyone recommend a good book or website where I can read up on this sort of thing?

Thanks,

Buzz (the other Buzz)

[RBS3]

Well, that leaves lots of latitude... The Vista is inexpensive... I have one. Have gotten a couple of 15 minute efforts out of it... had to come back as it was at the limit of my eyesight and I found no lift on the way home... The Spirit 100.. wings are in two sections, so the fuselage at 4' is the longest piece... that one has everything... and they perform OK... Have seen video clips taken from one. Guy out west did it...

[Andy W]

Get the EZGlider..
..a

[aeajr]

The Easy Glider and Easy Glider Electric
Great All Around Planes
by Ed Anderson

For all you power pilots who are looking at a second plane, this may
just be the plane for you. While you might not have been thinking of a
glider, read on and see if you feel a fit.

For all you new glider pilots, be it thermal or slope, I want to tell you
about a great all around plane, available in two versions that may be just
right for you.

The Multiplex Easy Glider and Easy Glider Electric have really made an
impact as first gliders or add-on gliders for experienced pilots. The pure
glider does well in thermal lift or in slope lift. The electric version can
do the same and even be flown as a parkflyer, though somewhat larger than
most parkflyers.

Some parkflyer pilots are going with the Easy Glider Electric as their first
or second plane. Let's see why.


Easy Glider

As a thermal duration sailplane, I have been teaching new glider pilots on
the pure glider version. It flies very nicely off a light to medium
hi-start. You can
also launch it with a winch if you tap it up like a Spirit or a Gentle Lady.
You can even give it a moderate zoom at the top. We have had
pilots fly the plane in TD contests at our field. You may want to move the
hook back from the stock position as it is a bit forward for an optimum
launch.

The pure glider, at 26 ounces, floats like a Spirit or a Gentle Lady with a
wing loading in the 6 ounce/sqft range. It can be flown R/E due to the
dihedral tips on the wings. However if flown with a 4 channel system you
can fly both ailerons and rudder. Add a 6 channel computer radio and
you can mix the rudder to the ailerons and set up flapperons or spoilerons
if you connect each aileron to its own channel. This will give you better
landing control.

As a slope glider the Easy Glider does very well in light lift and can take
ballast to take stronger winds. The aileron controls give you much more
positive control than the typical R/E plane. I prefer ailerons on the
slope.

The Elapor foam construction can also handle the rough landing areas at
many slope sites without suffering severe damage. I have used spoilerons
at the slope to help land the plane in small areas on
rough ground with good success. If you slow it down you can even fly it
into bushes, if you must, without the likelihood of serious damage.

Aerotowed behind a Magister
http://www.multiplex-rc.de/cms/vorschau/upload/d_videos/easyglider_schlepp.wmv

I think the Easy Glider makes a great first glider for slope or thermal, or
a great knock around plane for the experienced pilots. When you don't
want to pack the kevlar/glass plane, or don't like the landing conditions
for your contest ship, or if the lift is too light for your lead sled, pull
out the Easy glider and up you go up for some fun thermal or slope flying.


Flat Field Flying with the Electric

If you fly the electric version you add another dimension to an already nice
plane. At about 32 ounces, all up, the plane has adequate climb using the
stock speed 400 motor and an 8 cell 4/5 A 1000 MAh pack. Even with this
set-up the wing loading is still about 7 ounces per sq ft, or about 2 ounces
lower than the traditional 2M built up thermal gliders like the Spectra or
Electra. Switch to a 3 Cell lipo pack and reduce the weight further.

For flat field flying, power up the stock electric motor and fly up for
30-45
seconds till you reach soaring height, then cut the motor to go thermal
hunting. The stock folding prop, speed 400 and 3:1 gear box work very well.
This is no speedster but it will get you up to thermal height without a
problem. Just keep the climb to about 25 degrees and fly it up. Make sure
your speed control has a break so the prop will stop and fold properly.

Electric - stock set-up
If you want to see how the stock set-up works, this video will show you.
I believe these planes are flying 8 cell NiMh.
http://www.multiplex-rc.de/cms/vorschau/upload/d_videos/easyglider_electric.wmv

If you want to fly it as a parkflyer you can also keep the power on and just
fly it around the field. It will loop with a little dive first, and you can
do aileron rolls but, again, the stock set-up is not well suited to
aggressive aerobatics. However the glider design makes for a very stable
plane that will really fly slowly. This makes it good for new pilots,
especially those also interested in soaring.


Slope Soaring the Electric

Take it slope soaring too. The Easy Glider Electric does well in light to
moderate lift with the motor off. However if the lift dies, you can power
up and get yourself out of trouble. When the lift is uneven or uncertain,
the electric Easy Electric gives you a nice slope plane that can get out of
trouble when necessary. I think that makes it a good slope trainer. I
certainly enjoy flying it on the slope.


How long can you fly the electric on the slope? I had my Easy Electric in
the air for about 75 minutes during a recent flight. I was flying off a 75
foot cliff with an 8 mph wind that was almost straight in. Plenty of lift
and I was flying about 150 feet up most of the time. I used a 3 second motor
burst to get it into the lift and one climb of about 10 seconds to gain some
room so I could take a phone call.

Net use for that flight, about 200 MA from a 2 cell 2100 MAh lithium pack.
You don't use much power slope soaring unless you are an aggressive aerobat,
and I am not. I am more of a cruiser so an occasional loop or roll but most
of the time I am soaring. Based on that, I could have taken a 6 hour flight
and had plenty to spare. :) My 700 MAh transmitter pack only lasts about 2
hours so plan to get a second, or larger pack if you like long days of slope
soaring. :D


What About Wind?

When the wind comes up at the flat field or at the slope you can easily
ballast the plane. The instructions suggest you get a steel rod and slide
it inside the hollow wing rod. A 1/4" rod adds about 8 ounces and a 5/16
rod will add about 10 ounces to the 26 ounce pure glider or 32 ounce
electric glider. With this ballast the plane can take a fair amount of
wind. I have flown in 15 mph winds with higher gusts on the flat field. I
would guess 20-25 could be handled on the slope.


Easy Storage and Transport

When the day is done, the wings slide off and go back in the box.
The fuselage packs nicely into a small car so it is easy to transport, store
or to take on vacation. You might even choose to keep it in the trunk,
though I have not tested its resistance to heat in hot climates. My
Aerobird lives in my trunk all through the hot NY summers and cold
winters. The Easy Glider may join it, or perhaps even replace it.


Brushless Upgrade

For those who like an electric parkglider with a little more oomph,
Multiplex offers a brushless motor upgrade package that has everything you
need to replace the stock speed 400 with a BL400 6 wind motor that fits
nicely into the stock gearbox. It comes with a 27 amp ESC with BEC that can
handle the servos. The combo works extremely well with 2 cell 2100 MAh 15C
packs. On the bench, using the brushless upgrade, stock gearbox and prop,
the system pulls 26 amps. I am sure in the air that is more like 22 amps or
about 160 watts. That is about 80 watts per pound. With this system the
plane climbs at about a 70 degree angle and hits termaling height in 10-15
seconds.


Jack of all Trades - Master of None

The Easy Glider is not the BEST 2M glider you can buy, but it is a good
flyer that can stand up to the mistakes of new flyers or the abuse of rough
landing areas. It is fun to fly, easy to transport and would certainly
makes a nice addition to many people's fleets.

The Easy Glider Electric is not the BEST 2M electric glider you can buy.
However it is low cost, flies well and can stand up to the mistakes of a new
flyer. It is fun to fly, easy to transport and handles rough landings well.
It has made a nice addition to my fleet of thermal and slope gliders. If
you pop in the brushless upgrade the plane becomes quite lively and is
capable of some reasonable aerobatics. It is not a bad parkflyer either,
if you have the room for a parkflyer of this size.

These will make great "toss-in-the-car" gliders. Keep a hi-start or a
charger and some NiMh packs in the car and go flying on short notice. They
can take a careless drop, can be stepped on by the dog, knocked off the
table by the kids and will do it all, in the air, with pretty good
performance. Even if you make a poor landing, they will live to fly another
day.

My Background

Your reviewer's background is important. Here is mine.

I spend about 75% of my flying time with pure gliders. Typically I fly 2 to
3 meter thermal duration gliders. Examples would be the Great Planes Spirit,
the Airtronics Legend or the Polecataero Thermal Dancer. I fly these for
fun and in thermal duration contests. Most of my flying is off a club winch
but I also have 3 hi-starts which I use from time to time.

My slope flying has been mostly on a Zagi 3C wing or a 2M fiberglass aileron
slope plane. I also slope my Aerobird Challenger and have had some of my
thermal planes out on the slope.

I fly several parkflyer type planes. This is where I started, but my
interests have turned strongly toward gliders.

So this is my reference point for evaluation. At the time of this writing
the Easy Glider Electric was my latest addition to the fleet of 18 planes.
I have about 12 hours of air time on it and enjoy it very much. I probably
have another 6 hours of air time on other people's non-electric Easy
Gliders. I enjoy them too.

Below I list information about the Easy Gliders as well as other resources.

Clear Skies and Safe Flying!

Receiver Ready Easy Glider Package Review
http://www.rcgroups.com/links/index.php?id=5042

Easy Glider Electric - ARF - $89
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXKHS8&P=7
Flight Pack
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXKYM0&P=7
Receiver Ready
http://www.hobbypeople.net/gallery/240107.asp
Sample Battery - ( may have to change connector )
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXGBM4&P=ML
Multiplex Site
http://www.multiplexusa.com/models/ParkFliers/EasyGliderE.htm
http://www.modelspot.com/mpx/easyglider.htm

VIDEOS

Slope
http://www.elflight.dk/video5/easy-gl-hang.wmv
http://www.hobby-lobby.com/media/MPX4205-EasyGliderSlope.wmv
Aerotowed behind a Magister
http://www.multiplex-rc.de/cms/vorschau/upload/d_videos/easyglider_schlepp.wmv
A close up on how the towing works - sorry there is a commercial first
javascript:void(window.open('/cr/cda/playerex/1,1979,DIY_46086,00.html',
'mm_46086',
'width=350,height=555,scrollbars=auto,menubar=no,t oolbar=no,status=no,resiza
ble=yes'))
Flying Indoors
http://www.rcgroups.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=17509&sort=1&cat=506&page=1

Discussion Thread
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=347989
Cutaway view of electric motor mount and an alternate Mega motor
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3542057&postcount=105

Easy Glider Electric Build and Review
http://plawner.net/4/easyglider/easyglider.html

Easy Glider File for FMS
http://plawner.net/4/easyglider/m_easyglider_e.zip

The New Glider Pilot's Handbook
http://forums.flyesl.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=224

[kentuckyglider]

You might want to check out the "Best 2-metre RC Sailplane EVER " thread on the Sailplane Talk forum.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=634673

[jbeanelliott]

Although you requested a wing span less than 6 feet, you might consider the new Multiplex Cularis which is the 2.6 meter version of the Easy Glider. I believe it has 2 piece wings so it would still fit in almost any car. The posts say it should be available in the USA in a few weeks.

See thread at
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=637825

[regis]

Why the Easy Glider:
Price
Performance
Availability
Durability
Parts available when durability is abused.
Many expert fliers who can afford any plane available have them for fun.
But the new Multiplex Cularis may be even better. :-) Regis

[Buzz_Man]

Wow! Ton of information - thanks very much!

Yes, because I have a bucket load of electric stuff already, I should consider getting the motor version - I'll have to toss on a brushless though.

Thank you everyone,

Buzz (the other Buzz)

[BMatthews]

Bigger flies better. Shoot for a 2 meter or even consider going to a 100 inch.

Also you didn't tell us what sort of thermal flying you're after. Slow and relaxing or something that can move around fast and cover lots of sky. There's arguments for both cases but the second one definetly requires better flying skills to get the most out of it.

What's a typical wind speed on a typical flying day around your parts?

[Buzz_Man]

I've never thermalled before - sounds like fun - I'll probably fit into the move around fast and cover lots of sky because . . . I hate to admit this, but I am afraid of heights. I mean, I get paranoid when my plane gets way up there - requires so much concentration and if you ever lost radio contact, what's the chance you'd ever find it, ya know?

When you're just a speck - what's the point? How can you tell if it's going up, down, or whatever? And what if a gigantic thermal sucked it up before you knew what was happening?

So, yeah, maybe I'm not cut out for this sort of thing after all.

[BMatthews]

Don't panic there Buzz. Losing it overhead is not that common an occurance. As long as you have some sort of drag adding or lift killing ability through flaps or spoilers you can get it back down in one piece. Also flying that far out from you is best left to later and taken in smaller bites until you get used to flying your model almost on instinct. And finding a real hatsucker of that sort and being good enough to ride it to where loosing sight of it becomes a risk won't happen right away. You'll have pleanty of time to adapt....

However to aid that it helps to have a model that's more of a polyhedral rudder and elevator style where it's closer to its free flight roots. The added autopilot like stability that comes with such designs really does reduce the work load on the pilot. And if you find you enjoy just seeing things fly it's often more fun than some flat winged aileron zoomy model that requires more attention to fly well. Attention that's hard to focus on when the model is harder to see at distance.

I've often said that a simple polyhedral glider is probably one of, if not the most, simple ways to fly RC. But to make that glider graduate into a soarer by riding lift on a regular basis is one of the harder skills. It's also a fact that each day brings new thermal challenges in the form of vastly varying strengths and frequency of lift. It's a lot like going fishing and trying to guess the best bait and lake position for the day. It's a challenge that has kept me coming back for more for over 35 years of model flying.

You still didn't say how windy your area generally is at the times you usually like to fly. That'll play a large part in the range of designs that are suitable for you.

[Andy W]

Hey Buzz,
consider getting a hand-launch glider. You'll learn a ton about thermalling down low, and no power system required. I also HIGHLY recommend the Secrets of Thermal Soaring DVD from Paul Naton (Radio Carbon Art) .. http://radiocarbonart.com/Pages/asecthermalmain.html
Buy that first, I think you'll like it..
..a

[bobthenuke]

Another plug for the Easy Glider. I have a number of gliders and other planes and the EZ is my "old faithful"...takes a lickin' and keeps on tickin'. Not to mention very good flight qualities this is a very big bang for the buck. Really. And the DVD Andy mentions is a good investment as well.

bob

[wingsnapper]

Since you already have brushless setups then I'd go for the Easy Glider's big brother. If you were starting from scratch and just wanting to feel the water then the Easy Glider or Star are real hard to beat.
Jesse

[rdwoebke]

I've never thermalled before - sounds like fun - I'll probably fit into the move around fast and cover lots of sky because . . . I hate to admit this, but I am afraid of heights. I mean, I get paranoid when my plane gets way up there - requires so much concentration and if you ever lost radio contact, what's the chance you'd ever find it, ya know?

After time, you get used to it. I actually prefer to be a dot in the sky....

What is important is having good quality radio gear that you trust. Does not neccesarily have to equate to a lot of $$, but gear you trust and have experience with. Me, I really trust JR receivers and those Hitec "brick supreme" receivers. I speck those out all the time.

Eventually, it becomes a challenge. Like today can I go out and climb my electric glider to 400 feet with the motor then find thermals to get up to spec height. Or climb it to 400 feet and then have a 15 minute flight with just that first climb. Stuff like that.

Ryan

[Buzz_Man]

Gee - thanks everyone, this is very encouraging.

You still didn't say how windy your area generally is at the times you usually like to fly. That'll play a large part in the range of designs that are suitable for you.
Gosh, I dunno. Usually, unless a storm's a-brewin', it's fairly calm in the late afternoon, especially just before sundown. I reckon that's the same everywhere, right? I'm also guessing in March it's windier than usual because I can remember being in 3rd grade and I was parked right in front of this gigantic calendar that had large words printed on it "March winds blow" along with a graphic of kites in the sky, of course.

I realize this isn't the most scientific means of reporting the wind patterns where I live. I've never really paid that much attention to it. It seems like when it's February, cold and clear it's also generally windy, with ~10 mph winds gusting to 15 or 20 sometimes.

Thanks folks,

Buzz (the other Buzz)

[aeajr]

The objective of a thermal pilot is to be able to stay in the air for as long a he likes without the use of outside power, getting all he needs from the natural currents of the air.

Like a sailor at sea crossing from NY to London on the wind and the waves and the skill of his hands and his head. Not motor, just turning the forces of nature to his will.

The Joy of the Hunt
http://forums.flyesl.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=225

Sailplanes are Wonderful!
http://www.rchangout.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5356Pop-Offs

[Buzz_Man]

So, it might be correct to say if you like fishing you'd probably like thermal sailplane flying?

I like the total commitment idea - no motor.

What's that axiom . . . the worst day on the flying field is still better than the best day at the office?

I'm in.

[wingsnapper]

So, it might be correct to say if you like fishing you'd probably like thermal sailplane flying?

Great way to put it. First time you set the hook into a thermal and ride it out you may wonder why you've been just pointing the nose of some plane around the sky all this time.

In thermal soaring, the plane becomes just an insturment to interact with you're given conditions. This creates a lot of depth to the whole experience of soaring ,and therein lies the real draw. For me immersing myself into the air thats flowing by me provides a complete escape from the demands of life. The sailplane is mearly a tool, but soaring that plane is an art that requires one's complete attention. Very rewarding.

Jesse

[BMatthews]

From your description of the winds in your area I'm quickly getting the impression that this will be your first flying model of any sort. If you have flown any other RC model then it's obvious that you don't have a lot of air time otherwise you'd be able to provide a better idea of the usual wind conditions.

So rather than put importance on some of your other requirements I'd say shop for a good training sailplane. For that something like the ARF Goldberg Gentle Lady or Great Planes Spirit would be a good start. From there look up a sailplane club in your area for assistance with learning to fly.

[aeajr]

Buzz_man, that Easy Glider is still a good choice.

[Curtis Miller]

No specific plane recommendation other than making your first plane a relatively lightly loaded and relatively slow flyer. You'll have much more success soaring and won't get into trouble too quickly.

I bought two different gliders when I started--a 2 meter Renny and a 60" Ocelot, both from Northeast Sailplane. Both are electric, by the way, and I would very strongly recommend that. It's a huge advantage to just go out and fly without setting up a high start or winch. You won't have to walk out and get the parachute and launch again each time you drop out of the sky--which you will do quite a bit at the start. The motor will also allow you to range all over the sky looking for lift without worrying about getting back to the field.

But back to the planes. The Renny was easy to fly right from the start. It was stable and thermalled very well. I learned quickly and with very little stress. Now the Ocelot is very slick, very fast, and a lot of fun but it won't stay up unless it's a really great day. I like the speed but after a while you tire of motoring up, diving and looping and rolling. The other thing is that I've never wrecked the Renny and I've crashed the Ocelot several times, each time requiring major repairs and degrading the performance of the plane.

If you're going to enjoy soaring, you will love searching for and going up in lift and that's what a light and relatively slow glider excels at doing. As for altitude, you'll wind up loving it. It's the best sign of a great success and it's very exciting. I've had the Renny up to 1,950 feet and it's real thrill. Once you get up there you can fly all over the sky looking for more lift. It's fantastic. It is true you need to keep your eye on the ball or you'll lose sight of it. When that happens, I just put it into a lazy spiral and watch for the sun flashing off a wing or the underside of a wing appearing. Be careful here or you may wind up lower than you expect!

As I think of it I guess I'd recommend the Renny. It's graceful and a great soarer. It's not fast and won't do well in winds over maybe 15 mph unless you ballast it. But you'll learn quickly and then you can get that lightning fast hotliner or that gorgeous three meter you really want. But don't do that until you're ready. A hotliner can be a handful and that three meter is a lot of money flying around really fast and it wants a lot of room.

[aeajr]

By all reports the Renny Electric is a honey of a plane! :-)