Career choice info.... Aeronautical Engineer

[rusty221369]

I guess this might as well be the forum to post my question in. Im going to graduate highschool this summer and i hadnt really narrowed down what i wanted to do for a living so i started wondering whats it like to be an Aeronautical Engineer. If anyone could tell me what its like and the education needed id be so grateful. Thanks guys

[vintage1]

Oh dear. Probably technically fascinating, almost unemployable, and very badly paid would be my guess.

Like just abourt any other engineering disciline in the debt ridden 'we outsourced it all to China/India/Japan' Western world..

[Brandano]

Dunno how it is in other places in the world, but here in Italy aeronautical engineers are very sought after, specially in the car industry, since there's so few of them. It's long, hard, and quite tedious. You have to study several things like chemistry and such that may not be directly related to your interest. And a lot of people drops out of it, every year several thousand people starts studying aeronautical engineering, but only about 100 per year gets a degree.

[capncrunch]

Pessimist.

Good engineers will always be in demand. I have several friends who live out in LA and work for the giant aerospace firms. When I was trying to decide between engineering majors, I decided on mechanical because I thought it would be easier to get a job.

I made the right choice for me, but maybe for the wrong reasons. What I've seen of aero is that the market is dominated by huge companies. My friends in CA get to play with some cool toys, but they are one out of thousands, so they don't as much say in the final design. Also, they get rotated between fun projects (giant laser weapon systems) and not as sexy ones (babysitting a satellite to be launched in 4 years). They get paid well, but they also have to live in LA.

I hate design-by-committee and I'm much happier that I work in a very small company.

You'll need a bachelor's in engineering. are you planning on going to college?

[Sparky Paul]

I doubt the job situation is as gloomy as Vintage says.. someone has to design the outsourced items in the first place. :)
And nothing is ever done completely correct the first time.
Here's the lastest C5 for instance flying around here Wednesday, new again into flight test for life expansion.
The orange stuff on the plane is test gear. Engineers design and run that stuff, and engineers analyse the data from that stuff.

[yoyoML]

What are the universities famous for graduate courses/researches in aero engineering?

Be sure to love designing flying stuff! If that doesn't work out, working on cars isn't bad, either.

[rusty221369]

Well i could do all the tedious hard stuff since ive taken advanced placement(college courses) and i plan on going to a community college then transferring into a four year university and i do have competitive sat scores. And it does sound like something i would love to do im pretty much interested in anything that flies. And as for the L.A thing im onl about an hour away so its no problem. So anyone have any advice on what courses to take.

[Sparky Paul]

Your school should have a cirriculum that leads to the aero engineering degree.
The core classes would involve mathematical, electrical, physical and chemical courses, as well as some of the humanities.
With options to add others.
It's not plug-n-play. :)

[capncrunch]

Well i could do all the tedious hard stuff since ive taken advanced placement(college courses) and i plan on going to a community college then transferring into a four year university and i do have competitive sat scores. And it does sound like something i would love to do im pretty much interested in anything that flies. And as for the L.A thing im onl about an hour away so its no problem. So anyone have any advice on what courses to take.

call the four year you want to go to, talk to someone in engineering admissions, maybe someone in the AE department. find out what you need to take to transfer, what classes you can take that will transfer, etc.

My point about LA was that their choice of career landed them right in the least affordable housing market in the US. half a million dollars for a 2 bedroom!

community to 4 year is smart, but you wont be exposed to as much stuff as you would if you started at a university. Many people go to college and figure out they want to do something different that they experienced there. at the 2 years I've seen, there aren't a ton of extracurriculars and professors who need research assistants, bleeding edge research projects, classes taught by really brilliant professors... the kind of things that might turn you on to something new.


-B

[tom1968]

If you've taken the AP courses, there's no reason why you can't shoot for a 4-year school right away.

Most 2-year colleges don't have all the technical courses you will need to transfer, so you might take an extra semester to graduate. That's not the end of the world but if you possibly can, apply directly to a 4-year school. The big state schools offer a good education for less than the private universities, but the private schools offer more financial aid. Choose the schools you want and apply. What have you got to lose besides some time filling out forms and a couple of $60 application fees? And if AeroE doesn't work out, there are plenty of MechEs and EEs working in the aerospace companies.

You will need to have taken the math and science courses in HS. Physics and chemistry, math at least through trig and preferably calculus. If you have those, and the basics in all the English, history, etc. you are OK. If not, then you might have to enter as a general or undeclared major and take those courses in college, then transfer to engineering. It would take longer but it can be done.

There are days when being an engineer isn't particularly fun, but there are other days that I can't imagine any other career.

[rusty221369]

Ill start doing the college research right away guys. And ive taken two years of chemistry honors and A.P and a Semester of A.P physics before i moved schools, all the math up to A.P Calculus which im taking right now and honors english classes and i think my time for applying to universities is over for the fall semester does anyone have any four years ones in mind in California?

[Ollie]

If you are lucky, go to MIT because Dr. Mark Drela teaches there. He is a great teacher!

[Altocirrus]

I'm in my first year of aeronautical engineering. I'll quote an email which I sent to my personal tutor only yesterday...

I've wanted to be an engineer for as long as I can remember. I was raised on a diet of k'nex and it'll never work. I clearly remember buying a book on aircraft when I was 8. The guy at the till said "do you want to be a pilot when you grow up?". I said "No. I want to be an aircraft designer". Engineering is what has motivated me to work so hard all these years.

When I was offered the place, it was like a dream come true and I thought I'd be in my element. But now, at the start of the second semester, I'm having doubts as to whether this is what I should be doing.

Largely, it's the maths. I've always been pretty good at maths. I've never enjoyed it, but have been pretty good. However, I'm surrounded by people who were top of their class, and I just can't compete. The lectures only serve to confuse me, and I'm sick of being set abstract tutorial questions that even the lecturer can't answer.

Solid mechanics, fluid mechanics etc are also extremely challenging, but at least they appear to have some sort of real world applications. That said, they're contributing to the insane workload that is just grinding me down. There are aspects of the course I enjoy; drawing, CAD, anything which allows a little creativity. But they seem few and far between

To be honest, I'm not sure i can take 4 years of it. But if I gave up, I wouldn't have a clue what to do with my life.

Please, please, please, don't let this put you off. I'm going through a real rough patch due as much to university life as the course. Engineering opens up many career paths as the skills are diverse and highly transferable. But it is VERY hard.

[that rat]

If its something you want to do go for it. I would try to go to a school near someplace with a big aviation industry like St. Louis, Seatle, or almost any Air Force base. That will help you get an internship which will really help you get your foot in the door. For any engineering expect the first two years be alot of math, chemistry and physics. Most of your more fun and specislided classes will be you last 2 years.

If you just want to work on airplanes aero is not your only option. Honestly I wouldn't be surpriced if a majority of engineers designing planes are mechanical. With all the electictonics going into planes Im sure there a lot of electrical engineers too. Even chemical and industrial play there part.

[Sparky Paul]

The USAF just found out they bought some software that couldn't handle the International Date Line (the 180th meridian) for their best and greatest F-22.
There is a need for mathematicians as well as engineers who understand math and can use and test it in this computer age.

[starwoes]

Well go for it chap. I am surprised the first response to your question was so negative. The coursework is incredibly tough but anything that's worth something is not easy.

personally, i'd recommend Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University (www.erau.edu) just because I went there myself....and it's the "Harvard of the Sky." Spent 5 years at the Daytona Bch campus surrounded by THE most knowledgeable people in aviation today.

Good luck

[feihu]

Rusty...

Consider going to a University that has an ROTC program and enter the prep courses for an engineering degree. The third and fourth years classes could be in your desired field of engineering. At graduation, you could fullfill your ROTC obligation by doing Military Service at an Airforce Base for Officers Flight training or engineering, or at the Flight Dynamics Lab at Dayton Ohio for Aeronautical/Aerospace engineering. At completion of your Military Obligation, you will be given a choice to stay in the service with a promotion, enter the reserves, or be free to seek Civil or Civil Service employment.
While in the Service, you recieve goverment pay and benefits while building up your experience.

You will have to check with University and ROTC offices to see if the above course can be followed. It did work years back, but times change.

feihu

[Wingin' Wayne]

A buddy of mine got a four year aero degree at Cal-Poly in San Luis Obisbo. Now he works at Edwards and loves his job.

[Flyingwingbat1]

I'm going for mechanical engineering myself. To all who mentioned tough classes and feeling "dazed and confused" at the stuff they throw at you; I feel your pain. Keep fighting! If a class goes bad, suck it up, learn what you can, then use your new knowledge to hammer it the second time around. You'll be jumping from subject to subject; just as you BEGIN to get the hang of it, they're already on to the next thing. You'll find out how much you love (or hate) engineering through the experience, no matter how it goes.
Altocirrus, your letter sums up my thoughts exactly.

[Griphon]

I graduated from Arizona State University with my Aerospace Engineering degree. It's a great field, if I could only find a job in it. I'm in the mists of starting up my own company since I've done a few designs here and there. I'd say go for it. You'll definately learn some fun stuff.

Edit: If you folks are working for a company hiring an aerospace engineer, I'd gladly like to apply.

[dusty IV]

Rusty I think you picked a great forum for your question. There are some brilliant people that post here, uh, but then again. The fact that you posted here indicates to me that you are indeed a very put together person.

This is going to be a long rant from a successful but rather different sort of fellow who never has thought like most people. Being different, like most engineers, has it advantages and disadvantages. It has worked out very well for me however.

At 17 you have likes and desires that will change at 27, 37 , 47 and 57 as you move through through life. I assure you that what you think is hot right now you will not like at 57. Don't base a career decision on a hobby you like right now but base it on what the future will bring.

Each person has different priorities in life but sometimes its best not to follow what you like to do right now. That's called gratification delay. The job situation in the US requires long term planning or you can end in a very bad situation that can result in Divorce , misery and even suicide. I've seen this close up over and over.

Trying to find a mentor or helpful advice for a career choice is close to impossible. One way to determine the sagacity of the advice is to look at the person giving it. A teacher? I never met one worth .02c. Maladjusted, poorly paid, failures who sacrificed their life for tenure security. A pitiful human being ,imho, like most goverment employees who gave up their freedom for a crust of bread.

Some people need security and for them getting a goverment job solves their problem. So does going to jail if you like that life style.

When I was 17 I had long decided that owning my own business, becoming rich and retiring at 55 was my destiny in life. At that time the space race was on and engineers were hot. So I got my BSEE from a well know engineering school in Pasadena. Got a job with a small hi tech mfg. company to serve my apprenticeship for a few years, left and got my own company. My peers thought I was nuts and hired in for the likes of Hughes, TRW, Litton , North American Aviation etc. So where did most of these guys wind up? Laid off at 55-60. Where did I wind up? Retired at 55, sold the company to a Fortune 500 company and retired to my many hobbies. Successful as measured by one wife, happy and with great kids and grand kids who will never have to worry about their next job or the future.

Ignore if you want the previous rambling but take this to heart. STAY OUT OF THE MANUFACTURING SECTOR!! Our goverment a long time ago decided we were a service economy, no longer a manufacturing economy. The good jobs now are with the Government. The private sector- Legal, like lawyers (the best is patent attorney) Medical like MD's. Accounting like CPA's. It you really, really want to be an engineer get an engineering degree or physics undergrad degree. Takes two years to get a law degree, pass the bar and then the patent bar and your in. Specialize in airplanes if you want. Starting pay right now is over 200 K in some fields. The older you get the more valuable you get. A $ million a year is common. Most lawyers are liberal arts types that wouldn't know a screw driver from a hammer and can't become Patent Attorneys so the field is hurting for warm bodies.

There are no good jobs for engineers anymore in the good old USA now or in the future.

Attached my hobby shop in the walk out basement overlooking a lake. Money can buy a lot of toys. Work smart when your young and play hard before your old.

[skylark3f]

I'm just about to turn 22 and am in the middle of an Aeronautical Engineering course at the moment: I am English doing a degree in England though so things are more than likely different.

Aircraft design is something I have always wanted to do but it has not been easy to get here after my selective school (Grammar school) told me I could not do maths at A-level after only getting a B in my exam I took at 16. So after going to sixth form college I managed to get into a (not brilliant) university to do aeronautical engineering.

Despite that, this year I am doing an internship with Airbus Germany in the aerodynamic research department in Bremen (as part of my sandwich course). I'm working with the wake-vortex research group and at the moment we are working on the re-classification of the A380 as well as general wake vortex characterisation. I find this really interesting and was lucky to get this position. I think doing this internship in industry will be a great CV booster and its also a break from doing exams for a year. Living over this side of the pond, especially with the decline of British industry, the foreign langauage will also be a great help!

As my lecturers often say, "if it doesn't work out as an engineer you can easily retrain as an accountant!"

[yoyoML]

I'm kind of enlightened by dusty's post, actually. Thanks for the insight. As my girlfriend does law and I'm physics grad, I wonder if we can open up a firm :cool:

But I do like to design things. Is there another place where an aero engineer is needed more than the US?

[dusty IV]

I left out in my rant a couple of tips for you that are getting ready to go to College.

This applies to CA schools and this info may be incorrect. I have not kept up with the constant tinkering in the Government schools use to keep you confused. My youngest son graduated with honors at Irvine with a degree in physics. He could not get accepted to a single Government law school in Ca because he was a white male. We put him in a private law school for $20K a year tuition. He again graduated with honors and is now a very successful Patent attorney with his own firm. Some of his class mates could not pass the bar and are still trying to pay off their Government loans.


1- stay away from the so call Jr College. That will put a stain on your career track big time. A lot of the units your counselor will steer you into are not transferable to a real school and you will find you have wasted up to a year of schooling. Never, ever trust a school counselor. Do your own home work to check on what he/she has told you. It's probably wrong.

2- In Ca. you will find interference fits for certain courses. ie you can't take course B until you have taken course A first. Course A is over sub-subscribed and you can't get in. So there is no way to get a degree in 4 years. I think they do this deliberately to keep enrollment up. So now what used to take 4 years takes 5-6 years.
Schools favor jocks and one way to beat the system is to get a seat on some off beat but recognized sport. Volley Ball counts. Try to find the most unpopular and unknown sport they offer and sign up. Jocks go to the head of the line when signing up for courses. They bump the non jocks off the list and you get first shot at the over subscribed courses.

This is a bit messed up now as girls are mandated in on sports. Most of them don't like sports but to make the Government mandated quota even the biggest porker and most uncoordinated girl is a slam dunk to get a seat if she applies. But they usually don't take engineering courses. They however have taken over Med, law, accounting etc. If you are a White or Asian male you will have a problem getting placed in these courses.

Watch out for free money, it isn't free. The loan you take to go to school has to be paid back regardless of the fact there are no jobs when you graduate. I see kids owing 50k with degrees in geography working in a retail shoe store. Their life is ruined. The Mafia calls this vigorish and your dead if you don't pay up. The Government never forgets and will find you some day.

A undergrad degree in any science is a slam dunk to career success if you follow up with a grad degree. Any field including history counts. We live in a high tech world and managers who don't have a tech base are at a real disadvantage and no competition when applying for a job. Avoid liberal arts undergrad degrees, since every one has one they are of no more value then a HS Diploma.

[davidfee]

I did everything wrong... did not focus in HS, spent too long in a community college as I "sorted my life out," got a BS in chemistry and then an MS in (physical) chemistry... but found that there were not enough jobs available... so now I work as a composite structures design engineer in a large aerospace company. What I can tell you is this: be prepared to work long hours for a good, but not stellar salary. You will hear about people who went into law, medicine or computers who are making 3-5 times what you do. You will also have friends who are working at Starbucks.

So, there you go. Do what you love, but make sure to invest your money and make it work for you.

[markschaffin]

The original poster sounds a lot like me. My father wanted me to do something with computers but I wanted to follow my love of things that fly. I remember him asking why aerospace engineering. I asked him what else had I been preparing for with all my modelling and reading over the years. Besides, I didn't want to sit behind a computer all day. This was back in 1984.

I got my BS in aerospace in 1988, and my Masters in 1991. I've spent most of my career working at NASA, first as a contractor and then a civil servant for almost five years. Almost two years ago, I left NASA and came to Wichita to work for a major manufacturer of business jets.

I would agree that you should try to start at a 4-year college first, but if you can't, it isn't the end of the world. Where ever you start, starting now, focus hard on math. Even if you don't see a practical application for it just yet, it is important. Math is the language of engineering. And plan on going to grad school.

To the poster that said he was finding it too difficult. I applaud your honesty. I also encourage you to keep trying, but if you are meant to do something else, then you will be happier doing that something else.

As far as jobs, you can take this several ways. Work hard, learn valuable skills, and you will be in good shape. Be proactive in your career. No, it isn't the most stable of professions. Look around. Anyone could lose there job, even civil servants. I looked at leaving aerospace engineering about 8 years ago to go into programming/software development. I didn't, in large part because I just could not get excited about it.

I have to agree with Dusty about government workers. Being a civil servant can be great. The pay isn't as good, but in my case, the job flexibility was great. By flexibility I mean I had a large say in the work that I did and had a lot of freedom to pursue different ideas. That is harder to find in industry. The trade-off is that in industry you work with real products. Getting to see something you designed fly is very satisfying. On the other hand, if you are a civil servant and don't really want to do anything, you can get away with that, too. Driven people can accomplish a lot working for the government. Unfortunately there aren't enough driven people in the government.

As far as doing something profitable rather than something you love, well, just remember that we are all different. We can't all start our own business and be successful at it, or happy doing that. There is a lot more to life than money and possessions. It is your responsibility to manage your earnings wisely and also to manage your skills wisely. Finding the right balance can be hard, if not a continuous struggle.

Oh, and make sure you find something that really excites you in whatever field you go into. When I saw how computers could be used to predict air flow, I was hooked. So, what do I do now? I sit behind a computer all day doing computational fluid dynamics and I love it. I guess both me and my Dad were right.

Good luck.
Mark

[dawesy]

G'Day Rusty,

I'm an aeronautical engineer in the Royal Australian Navy - completed my bachelors degree in 1994 and since then have completed a MSc in Flight Dynamics (Cranfield Uni - located in UK) and graduated from Empire Test Pilot's School as a Flight Test Engineer. Let me tell you, choosing aeronautical engineering was the best decision of my life!!

I love my job - aeronautical engineering appears to be one of the engineering disciplines where you are required to have a good working knowledge of everything covered in other engineering degrees and then some. In my day I can deal with things as diverse as aircraft performance, technical airworthiness regulation, operational airworthiness issues, aircraft stability & control and aircraft certification. I've been very lucky with my jobs as well and never had one that I didn't like. I've worked managing maintenance operations on a Squadron level, conducted and managed the certification of prototype aircraft in the lead up to the initial test program, managed / conducted a flight test program for the service release of a new helicopter, conducted / managed the testing and definition of helicopter flight envelopes for ship operations and am about to become the engineering manager for a billion dollar aviation project.

Aeronautical engineering is awesome fun and very satisfying, but it is demanding and can be draining. The Aeronautical industry demands a great deal of its engineers hence, a passion for flight is the most important thing that you need. If you have that than things like academics tend to take care of themselves and nothing ever seems boring or demanding!

if you want to know more, don't hesitate to PM me. Whilst having studies in Australia and the UK I can't really help you with the degree process, but I'm more than happy to discuss the fun an aeronautical engineer can have once the training has been strated - that's another thing - you NEVER stop learning, rather you only just start...

cheers,
dawesy

[JRuggiero]

No matter what engineering school you are interested in, find out where their graduates get jobs, and how long it took. Ask students who are almost ready to graduate if they have jobs, and with what companies. Talk to one or more of the university's career counselors. Talk to recent grads who have jobs and find out how well the curriculum worked out for them.

Be prepared to take longer than four years to complete the program. It's no shame to want to take a lighter load, so you won't be swamped and fall behind, which is worse than taking a little longer to get the degree. Be prepared for unexpected delays in getting a job yourself.

Jim R

[Purdue Aero Man]

I guess this might as well be the forum to post my question in. Im going to graduate highschool this summer and i hadnt really narrowed down what i wanted to do for a living so i started wondering whats it like to be an Aeronautical Engineer. If anyone could tell me what its like and the education needed id be so grateful. Thanks guys

I can't be certain if Vintage was being sarcastic or serious in his response, but either way, the good news is, that jobs are out there right now for young aeronautical engineers, and there will be even more jobs out there in 4 or 5 years.

As far as schooling, if you've got a decent head on your shoulders, you can get through most engineering degrees, including aero, in 4 years. I do know some folks that decided to stretch it to 5 years, but if I can get through school with an aero degree in 4 years, you should be able to as well. As feihu suggested, if you don't mind a few years in the service and/or you need money to go to school, check into ROTC.

As far as what working as an aero engineer entails, I'm priveleged to get to work on the P-8A. http://i.n.com.com/i/ne/p/2006/plane_550x367.jpg
As engineers, you don't turn a wrench or drive rivets, you work in teams, work to meet customer requirements, and work to release quality engineering.

[portablevcb]

I also agree with most of what was said in here. I got a BS degree and then spent 20 years in the Army. During that time I also got my MSE and then worked on some pretty neat programs (including a BIG laser). When I retired I then worked a bit in the automotive industry, then back into the defense industry. I've been able to work in a lot of different fields, missiles, satellites, explosives, large caliber guns, lasers, high power microwaves.

The key is to find something that you like to do and go to work at it. It also depends on what your goal is, working on specific technologies or making money. They don't always go hand in hand. When I started and wanted to be a mechanical engineer my goal was to get into automotive design. Never worked in that field, but, found many others that were just as much fun. I also had no desire to become rich, so, passed by some jobs. I also had a family and didn't like spending a lot of time on the road so passed up other jobs.

You can work as an engineer in a large company or get with a small company and have a lot of fun as well. Sometimes they even make a lot of money :) Do you want to keep you hands on or end up running a program? Most choices you will make along the way, and, you will change your mind many times during your career. What seems important now may not be so important 15 or 20 years from now.

In Arizona there are several large companies who are always looking for good engineers (Honeywell, Boeing, Raytheon to name a few). A good friend's daughter and my nephew both got jobs out of college without any problem. My son is a self taught controls engineer and got a job in the Seattle area.

Studies are a bit more difficult than others. If you follow a conventional education program, then most of the major schools will suffice. Some are more noted in one area or another. After you've been working for 5-10 years it won't matter where you went to school, it only matters what you have done. A way to get a job after school is to get in an intern program with a company you might want to work for. That way you can see if that is really what you want to do and is good job experience regardless of where you end up.

Regardless of what you decide to do, have fun.

charlie

[kentuckyglider]

Hi Rusty,

I'm not an engineer (at least not yet), but I've heard that the University of Cincinnati has one of the better AE programs in the country. It's not California, but I like living over here. :D

KG

[enephs]

To become an aerospace engineer you can take a number of routes. 1 is to get your BA in mechanical and get your graduate degree in aerospace. There aren't a lot of schools that offer it but you can also skip the BA in mechanical and do the BA in aerospace. Here in Texas the premier schools that offer BA aerospace engineering degrees are the University of Texas at Austin (hook'em) and Texas A&M. As a devout longhorn I'm sorry to say Texas A&M has a slightly better aerospace program but not by much. In engineering overall, UT however, is ranked higher. I can tell you first hand Aerospace engineering is an extremely hard major. Prepare for ungodly amounts of work that is from Satan himself. I am only taking basic sequence aerospace engineering courses and I have already decided to switch to mechanical. Although I know im switching to mechanical I still enjoy my aerospace classes every day. UT has some really accredited professors. Dr. Hans Mark is one of my professors this semester and I never miss a class of his. As the former secretary of the air force, Deputy Administrator of NASA, designer of the V22 Osprey, he has a lot of insight in aerospace engineering. In a nutshell, Aerospace engineering is a really rewarding major but the workload is for me, unheard of. I cant see myself being able to keep up with aerospace and I have only taken basic sequence courses. AKA: I haven't even gotten to the part that ever says is hard.