Killer Thermals - Paragliders meet thunderstorm

[jasons]

Wow.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/ewa-sucked-into-storm-and-lives-to-tell/2007/02/16/1171405421626.html

[5valvethumper]

I read that in the Phila. Inquirer and it freaked me out. Did you read the climb rate?? There's a CSI episode kinda similar to this story about 3-4 seasons ago. The pilot dropped out of the sky as a block of ice in the desert of course...

Here's the link with feet instead of meters - 2500ft to 32,000 in 15min.????
http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/news/nation/16726327.htm

[mode1]

I saw the woman pilot interviewed on t.v. She said she thought she was going to die. The wing went full uncontrollable. Also said she doesn't understand how the wing, and herself, survived.

[jasons]

I saw the woman pilot interviewed on t.v. She said she thought she was going to die. The wing went full uncontrollable. Also said she doesn't understand how the wing, and herself, survived.


I got a kick out of one of the articles where they mention some of the comments on the paragliding internet posting boards being along the lines of "where can I get a setup that takes that kind of punishment and yet is so docile it flies itself! I want one of those".

[schrederman]

My sailplane has a rough-air redline of 130 kts. That gives me some security flying around thunderbumpers, but Mother Nature can still reach out and touch you... :eek: Most of the time I would have the ability to get away, don't you think?

Jack Womack

[John Gallagher]

Most thermals continue up into the clouds.
In the middle of the last century, when soaring full size sailplanes was still new and the skies were a lot less crowded, thermalling within clouds was common practice. Most serious pilots had blind flying intruments on their instrument panel. Cloud flying was made illegal in the US, after a number of pilots had their full size sailplanes break up in the incredible turbulence within clouds. I remember reading about one pilot who rode his sailplane up into a cloud and was forced to bail out when the glider broke up. He decended through the cloud and popped out the bottom and when he thought he was clear, he opened his shoot. Unfortunately the lift was still very strong. He was sucked back up high into the cloud and either froze to death or died of a lack of oxygen.

[regis]

It was suggested in a news account that she survived because - due to lack of oxygen - she was unconscious and did not need as much oxygen. I believe she was treated for frost bite. Regis

[Andy W]

I'm sure he's not the only one to do it, but Shelley Charles set the GA record (and I believe it was the US record for a time) at 19,434' in a wood-and-fabric Minimoa on 7/18/1943:
http://www.soar-mgsa.org/GeorgiaHOF/Hallofame/Shelly%20Page.htm
http://www.southerneaglessoaring.com/images/Task&Records/ga_records_stories.htm#Story1
..a

[MotoGuzzi750]

Some of the 1930s stories can be found in The Story of Gliding, by Anne Welch. Best book on gliding I have ever read. Those 1930s pilots really were going futher and faster every day....

And as a cooincidence, my wife bought me a paragliding fun day that I am going to in the next few months, as I had told her I used to fly Sailplanes (Blaniks!!!) but was priced out of it before I could go solo... Should be fun.

[slopemeno]

Something you should Google is about soaring the Sierra Wave out of Bishop, CA. A guy in a Pratt-Read PRG-1 (only slightly more modern than a Minimoa) set an altitude record of some 44,000' in the early 50's. The PRG-1 broke apart, and he bailed out. He was pulled back up into the lift many times, but survived with injuries. Parts of the PRG-1 were scattered for miles. I think it was called the "Sierra Wave Project".

[schrederman]

I saw a film on the Sierra Wave Project. The Pratt-Reid actually blew apart in turbulence and the pilot was unconcious, briefly. He came to in time to pull the cord and was pulled back up. He lost a boot and had a broken ankle from the violence of the glider being destroyed in the air. I can't imagine having to land on a broken ankle... ouch!

Jack Womack.

[Neil Stainton]

Glider flying in cloud is still legal in the UK if you have the instruments and the qualifications, or at least it was 10yrs ago.

Neil.

[reylf_gnijieB]

In 1979, at Red Rock Ridge north of Reno, we had an informal hangglider meet and party. Since I had crashed my glider the week before, I became the "launch director." I "Wire Launched" (walk a glider down the slope into the lighter wind away from the top of the ridge, holding the front flying wires) around 50 gliders. Many didn't come back to land at the ridge.

Takeoff was 5,500 ASL. Several pilots had altimeters; some flew to over 22,000 feet. Some went higher. One pilot cut his flight short to land in his back yard, just for the fun of it. Another flew to Washoe Lake, about 70 miles away. That was the Sierra Wave!

[reylf_gnijieB]

BTW, I would never choose to thermal a non-rigid wing. IMHO, paragliders belong in slope lift only. Having experienced extreme tubulance, I feel a collapsible wing is NOT the best choice.

[MotoGuzzi750]

Aha thanks Reylf - cross country thermal soaring is EXACTLY what I would want to do.

[Neil Stainton]

It is what anyone would WANT to do, but Reylf was saying that in his opinion a rigid wing would be safer. Most would agree.

Neil.

[schrederman]

For me personally, I am not putting my old, fragile carcas in anything with less than 49' of carbon wing.... and then, with a good emergency parachute.... thanks, anyway....

Jack

[David Taylor]

Two monster cu-nims that are working their way towards each other and a whole group of pilots decide to try and shoot the gap between..... Dumb, Dumb, Dumb!

I can understand pilots getting into a "if he's going for it so am I" mind set while in a competition but if you are unable to make logical decisions for yourself then 1- you will never really do well in competition (being a follower will rarely get you the win) and 2- in a situation like this one you will be lucky to survive.

A Japanese pilot dead from a lightning strike and another lucky just to be alive. All for a few extra points? let alone what all the other pilots went through in there. Once again, just Dumb!

Dave T.

[Libelle201B]

Some years ago a pilot flying a SGS 1-26 in central Florida was sucked into a large cumulus cloud. If I remember correctly, the plane entered a spiral dive and one wing seperated from the fuselage. The aircraft then spun down to earth, landing in a thicket of palmeto bushes. The shaken pilot walked away from the wreckage with minor injuries.
I think the pilot was charged by the FAA for some improper bolts in the aircraft and flying into class B airspace. The load that broke the wing was calculated to be over 9 G's.

[sekollera]

Cloud flying was made illegal in the US, after a number of pilots had their full size sailplanes break up in the incredible turbulence within clouds.

Could flying in a sailplane is 100% legal in the US. Not many folks do it however. Big topic as of late on rec.aviation.soaring.

/Adam

[John Gallagher]

Could flying in a sailplane is 100% legal in the US. Not many folks do it however. Big topic as of late on rec.aviation.soaring.

/Adam
Yes... Since I last posted I've been reading on rec.aviation.soaring. From what I read, it's legal only if you have a FAA clearance and are in communication with a controller during the flight. Don't know if you need a transponder. Not something you can do without prior setup and planning.

[Daryl Perkins]

I don't fly full scale gliders, but I am a multi-engine instrument rated pilot. I can only assume that the same FAA regs apply to gliders as to power planes. We can't fly into IMC (Instrument Meteorological Conditions) without clearance, establishing 2 way communications with ATC, and without the proper ratings, and a properly equipped aircraft. I don't feel like pulling out the regs, but a Mode C transponder may be required as well. Whether it's legal or not, flying into the clouds is just plain stupid without all of the above. I've been on IFR flight plans and been uncomfortably close to gliders in VMC with no notice from ATC. Gliders don't show up on their radars. In IMC, there would be no way see the glider thermalling in a cloud. I don't want to run into one.

[mattJ]

BTW, I would never choose to thermal a non-rigid wing. IMHO, paragliders belong in slope lift only. Having experienced extreme tubulance, I feel a collapsible wing is NOT the best choice.


Is this what you mean: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsN_H5yBTTU

I fly both hang gliders and paragliders. I can agree with your comment but my paraglider hasn't seen any thermal flying yet so I'll have a better opinion afterwards. Paragliders are great for the ridge though but hang gliders give you the glide performance to quickly travel from thermal to thermal.

[ktm_stu]

*snip* Two monster cu-nims that are working their way towards each other and a whole group of pilots decide to try and shoot the gap between..... Dumb, Dumb, Dumb!

I live not far from where the competition was held in NSW Aus, and even from quite a distance the cloud was huge. you would have to be out of your mind to fly a rigid glider towards one...let alone a paraglider - "jellyfish"

[hbielich]

This is why I like to fly all my planes with my feet firmly planted on the ground!!!

[Libelle201B]

I don't fly full scale gliders, but I am a multi-engine instrument rated pilot. I can only assume that the same FAA regs apply to gliders as to power planes. We can't fly into IMC (Instrument Meteorological Conditions) without clearance, establishing 2 way communications with ATC, and without the proper ratings, and a properly equipped aircraft. I don't feel like pulling out the regs, but a Mode C transponder may be required as well. Whether it's legal or not, flying into the clouds is just plain stupid without all of the above. I've been on IFR flight plans and been uncomfortably close to gliders in VMC with no notice from ATC. Gliders don't show up on their radars. In IMC, there would be no way see the glider thermalling in a cloud. I don't want to run into one.
Because of a recent mid air between a sailplane and corporate jet near Reno NV, there is now an ongoing discussion concerning transponders in sailplanes, especially in areas very well known for sailplane activity and high volumes of commercial air traffic. (Sierra Nevada) About 6 years ago I was out west and flew at a local glider operation in that area and I think all of the club equipment had transponders. The plane I flew did. But it is not required.
Sailplanes, because of their basic instruments, require no power systems and are not required to have such. Who's was at fault?.. that will be determined, I'm sure. I agree absolutely that no sailplane, hang glider or anything else should be flying in cloud unless they have the proper equipment, and training.
Happy soaring!

[Libelle201B]

If I might ad , a careful and prudent pilot won't get sucked into a cunim, but competition does push the limits.