Best Molded Three Meter Floater

[Curtis Miller]

I'm looking for a light electric three meter plane for recreational soaring. I want it to be light, of course, but I'd love it if the plane would also pick up some speed or handle a little wind.

I have a 90 - 100 oz. Trinity F3B plane but it's awfully heavy and doesn't soar well in the typically weak lift we have in our part of the world. Actually, I haven't been able to get it to make enough power yet to properly launch it so I can really feel how it soars but I get a sense it's gonna be fast but not soar well.

I love the clean lines of molded planes but I guess I'd consider a built up plane if you think it's more efficient.

[soholingo]

I only have brief time with it, but I thought the stratos hung in the air about as well as anything I have flown except my photon II. Granted most of my planes have high wing loading. Still that stratos sle hung pretty well...

I would guess any Drela 3 meter would float too, something like a bubble dancer would be ideal.

Why don't you make one... I have seen your work on the dlg's just scale it up...

[davidleitch]

The AVA is a well proven electric setup. As an electric its wing loading is comparable to a moulded 3 metre F3J glider. However the penalty is that its polyhedral and only rudder elevator spoiler/flap. Its an excellent plane for thermalling but that's pretty much all it can do.

Mh32 based electric gliders such as the Tragi 705, Graphite 2 have electric fuselages and will work. The Stork has an excellent fuselage and is available with a light layup.

As discussed in a couple of threads its questionable whether moulded 3 metre planes that are built for winch launches (stronger and heavier) but also to penetrate at low wing loadings (relative to electric) really are that suitable as electrics. You will run a weight penalty of at least 20% going electric and probably 25%. That will cause a decline in still air performance, a wider turning circle and tougher landings as compared with winch launched models. You can compensate for that via faster penetration if you really skilled at finding rising air.

My ideal model would have a flying weight under (80 oz) 2.4 kg, have an airfoil designed to operate at the implied wing loading, be strong enough to handle hard pull outs from steep dives and be moderately aerobatic.

[Mark Miller]

I have a few 3 meter electric designs. I currently have a Trio with flapped Soprano wing in stock. $675.00 plus $25.00 shipping. I have a shipment coming in containing ...

2 Soprano $650.00
1 Piper $700
3 Piper XL $750.00
3 Blizzard Molded carbon kevlar wings $850.00
2 Trio $700.00
2 Piper C Full House molded center panel with built-up tips $750.00

All can be had with electric front ends at no extra cost.

Not all are on my website yet but most are. I am waiting to get some of the new ones here for photos. I can forward any info you need.

Mark Miller
Isthmus Models
www.isthmusmodels.com

[Bro]

Curt;
get a F3J Center panel for your Trinity E, add 10" to the wing, and be done with it! ;)

Happy Landings!
Bob

[Curtis Miller]

Bob, what do you mean by an F3J center panel? I am a bit confused by all the FAI designations. Can someone define what these all mean? I thinkF3B is the multi-task speed and soaring. I don't know what F3J is for sure. I think F3F is slope racing.

What I like to do is go out to my local site and work the thermals for an hour or so at a time. I just enjoy flying around looking for lift and working it. I love it when I can work up to a couple of thousand feet then go looking for something else. I like a little speed and I like to be able to fly in some wind but I get bored just doing aerobatics with a heavy plane and using the motor to regain altitude.

What would the wing loading of the Trinity be with the F3J center panel? My 8 0z. per square foot two meter soars with ease. My 10 oz. per square meter 60" glider is fast but just can't soar in typical day to day lift here (at least not in my hands.) It's fun to zoom around with but I'm more interested in soaring in the long run.

I think I figured out the E-Trinity was going to be somewhere around 14 or 17 oz. per square foot. I don't know what your estimate is but that's very heavy by my standards. I'm sure it will be a riot on the slope but it's about a four hour drive to the nearest real slope around here and then the landing zones are small to nonexistent. Once I get the Trinity up and running then I'm sure I'll fly it there but I want something for a day to day soarer.

I was looking for something that might be closer to 60 oz. so that it wouldn't take so much motor and battery to launch and it would hang around better while I work the light lift of the upper midwest. I really don't want to spend a small fortune on another three meter glider but I want to be able to soar, not race.

[Andy W]

My electric AVA is about 58oz ready to fly - that's about 7.5oz/sq' loading..
It's a floater, can be thrown around like an HLG to work even small patches of lift, but can move VERY fast across the sky if needed..
..a

[Curtis Miller]

Thanks, Andy. You're the second proponent of the AVA. I checked it out and it's a handsome plane. I am a little hesitant about the fact that it's an RES but I like the fact that it'll be inexpensive, easy to configure and relaxing to fly without all those extra control surfaces and servos.

I also looked at the Supra at Kennedy Composites. I've been building SuperGees so of course I'm familiar with Drela and the Supra. I didn't know someone built one commercially. It's attractive but I'd have to do my own E-conversion. Being designed for the winch, it should be overkill in strength. It seems like it would have a wider range of functionality.

The Soprano looks attractive too. I'm getting the picture of the category. I've been attracted to the sleek molded planes, like my Trinity, but I want something that soars better as well. I'm going to get the Trinity up and running then see how it handles but I foresee a lighter plane in this class in my future.

[soholingo]

Stratos Sle.... MH32 airfoil, one of the most versatile out there... also Drela's airfoils closely resemble the thinned mh32.

[Curtis Miller]

Who sells the Stratos? It didn't show up in my searches.

[soholingo]

http://www.soaringusa.com/products/product.htm?product_id=16451&category_id=259

also why not get a Supra? It seems that it does exactly what you are looking for.. .and its newer...

[RicVaughn]

HI,

I now have a 24 round cell electric glider, 125", 1050 sq in, 96 oz. It will slow down and thermal quite well. Not as slow as the Ava. I'm just finishing up this years glider, 144", 1220 sq in, 8.9 oz wing loading, 10 S, with 1800-2500 watts of power. You can get an electric light. It just takes work.

Ric

[soholingo]

Ric you built these puppies right?

Curtis looks like he does bang up work on dlg's I would think he could build the plane he wanted...

Jay

[jirvin_4505]

snip..
I also looked at the Supra at Kennedy Composites. I've been building SuperGees so of course I'm familiar with Drela and the Supra. I didn't know someone built one commercially.

Hello Curtis
Good to see you lingering on the darkside :rolleyes:

Now that you have your supergees underway and have developed and displayed excellant workmanship you must be ready for the next step up the Drela ladder. :)

I think it time for an electric Supra build :D

True the wing is designed for winch launching however there has been discussion on an electric build on these groups. It is already the benchmark for lightweight soaring.


cheers Jeff

[Curtis Miller]

I guess after all the work on the SuperGees I'm looking to take the easy way out on the next plane. I am planning on making some wings for my 2 meter as my next project but I don't know if I can afford the time and energy to do a Supra from scratch. It's tempting because I could lighten the spar because I wouldn't have to worry about launch loads. I'm sure it would be just right. Right now it just seems like too much work.

[ClayH]

The Supra from Kennedy Composites could be built at 77-78 ounces with a geared Hacker B50 and controller and a good sized lipo pack. Fitting the batteries in could be tight. I think the Ava pod is a little larger in diameter. If you just want easy thermalling, the Ava is very hard to beat.

Clay

[georgebinns]

I had an electric AVA with the flapped wing and it was the best light wind electric glider I've ever seen! 10 minute flights from a 1 min motor run in still air. :D The flaps really give you much more scope with weather conditions -apply a little negative and she shot across the sky no problem. It was fitted with a good quality geared brushless motor and was flying on 10 cells.

I say had because It suffered a mid-air with another electric glider when he tried to join me in a thermal over ¼ mile away and it ended up in a river after the radio battery became disconnected during the collision!!!! :(
I was so impressed with the performance that I ordered another one the next day! I'm planning to rebuild the original fuselage and tailplane which mostly survived the crash unscathed from over 400ft - only the wing tips were completely destroyed on impact and the fuselage broke just behind the wing. The centre panel looks intact but some of the ribs were broken and I don’t think it will be safe to use without some major surgery.

Highly recommended for some great flying!

[rdwoebke]

On another Thread Barry said he is going to have an Electric Supra soon:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=643268

Ryan

[trend.ab]

I fly a Pike E at 78 ounces AUW. Great plane in my opinion, close to the pure glider.
Beat

[tomcat5109]

Beat, can you give a brief description of your Pike (i.e. wing layup, battery, motor)? I fly a Superior at 76 oz and it is a great flyer in most conditions. 78 oz would be the same.

Tommy

[trend.ab]

Beat, can you give a brief description of your Pike (i.e. wing layup, battery, motor)? I fly a Superior at 76 oz and it is a great flyer in most conditions. 78 oz would be the same.

Tommy

I have an E-fuse for my Carbon 68 Pike Superior. The glider version is 71.5 oz, the e-version 78 oz.
I am using a Neu 1100 2Y with a 4.4 gearbox and 16x10 APC, Castle Creation 45 and a 4S 2100 Hyperion Lipo.
It pulls around 40 amps at around 12 Volts for around 500 Watts in 10 second bursts that get you to winch height, these are in-flight measurments.
Glider performance is really great, I do not feel a lot of difference to the pure glider version.

[RicVaughn]

Jay,

Yes, I build just about all of my planes. My wing is all baged and ready for control cut out and servo install. Paint added a little more than I wanted.

Ric

[Pilebuck]

I vote for the Superior Electro as well.
Weight penalty of 9-12oz with a light set-up; that is about half ballast for one of these ships. Only in "dead air" will this make much difference to your performance. The superior will also "move out" a lot better when carrying a bit of ballast IMHO.
All round, I don't think you can go wrong with this ship.

Sam