Looking for CNC Mill Part I

[crankorgan]

Originally posted by balsaman
Panzypoof I am liking that marble paint. I like it more each time I see it.

Hey John, I get dust on my lead screw and if the dust is heavy it binds up my axis. Just the Y axis screw which is the only one on the bottom.
Eric

Balsaman,
These problems only happen to people who use their
machine. When I mill a PCBoard, I make a wall all the way around
the bed using masking tape. This traps the dust. I then vacuum the mess before removing the board.

Real CNC machines use tubes over the leadscrew. They
are telescopic or they look like a spring with a covering on them. Others use a gard that looks like the airconditioner sides. Folded material like an acordian. The simple solution is to buy some cheap acid brushes and mount them on both sides of the leadscrew.

John

[crankorgan]

Originally posted by PanzyPoof

ExtremeLite You're best bet is order a Set of Plans that'll give ya all the answers.
I highly recomend to do so!
The truth is there's more info here then I think
Cranky want's to See out!
He's been good natured in regards to this thread.

Thanks PanzyPoof,
The truth is, if I had a job I would give out FREE CNC plans. As it is now, that's how I earn my living. If people look back over my posts, you will see I give out free advice all the time. I know some people will be able to figure out how it's done just by looking at the pictures. Many people have built my designs by just looking at my website. Until I came along you either put out big money or you had to hack printers and plotters..... Using hardware store parts was my dream!

I would also like to thank PanzyPoof and others at this time for helping me pay my bills!!!

John

[DICKEYBIRD]

Originally posted by balsaman
I know when mine is on 'cause its moving.:D
I know mine's on 'cuz wifey yells: "Can you shut that damn thing off, I can't hear myself think!";) Of course, my answer is always: "What'd you say, this damn thing is real noisy!":D

[DICKEYBIRD]

Hey P/Poof, what did you name your machine? Ya gotta have a name for it!:)

[PanzyPoof]

Tiger Claw

[DICKEYBIRD]

Originally posted by PanzyPoof
Tiger Claw

Ahhh, honorable PanzyPoof-san, a Kung-Fu CNC machine!;)

[balsaman]

Mine still has no name. I like Tiger Claw Panzypoof.:D Good one.

Eric

[crankorgan]

Marble Magic

[balsaman]

It's alive!

My machine is back up! New control box mounted and all new wires to the motors and switches. I was able to reuse only one motor cable! I moved it from the x to the y. The y was closer so it was long enough. I soldered on those tedious little 9 pin serial port ends and hooked it all up! It's working great. The 20 volt , 12 Amp regulated powersupply gets plenty toasty. It's drawing around 9 amps. It's mounted to the door of the cabinet with the transistors sticking thru so the door acts like a heat sink. The powersupply was mounted on a large chunk of aluminum originally in much the same way, but it wouldn't fit in my cabinet that way. I can't touch the door now, lol. I will make some heatsinks for the transistors, and bolt them on. Even with the hot door, stuff inside was staying just warm. The fan keeps the air fresh in there which is the key. Now to figure out how to keep the sawdust out. The computer powersupply I was using before was full of balsa. I think a filter would be a good idea.

Here is a picture. See the transistors on the door? They poke thru the door into the powersupply circuit board.

Eric

[balsaman]

I am naming mine after Cranky.:D

Eric

[crankorgan]

balsaman,
Did you see my post on the dust problem?

John

[balsaman]

Yes, thanks.

I guess the best solution is not to use my machine!:D

I will keep it clean the best I can. I may also build a little wall around my table. I never thought of that.

Thanks oh cnc guru!

Eric

[crankorgan]

Originally posted by balsaman
Yes, thanks.

I guess the best solution is not to use my machine!:D

I will keep it clean the best I can. I may also build a little wall around my table. I never thought of that.

Thanks oh cnc guru!

Eric

It might be possible to build a minature range hood using a PC
fan. A fan/box with filter in the area of the cutting tool. This would
suck up the really fine dust without making alot of noise.

John

[balsaman]

Ok guys it's about time I give something back to the cnc community. I spent a half hour of so drawing up the alphabet in single lines in autocad for those who want to do some engraving. Deskengrave works but you can only do one line at a time. You can convert fonts to lines in Coreldraw but you end up with an outline of the font. Sometimes you want to do the letters in one line. They are available to anyone who wants them from my web page in DXF format. The letters are 1.5" tall but can be made anysize by scaling them. Just pick the letters and move them into the correct order, scale them then copy and paste the stuff you made into a new file. Convert to gcode and you are done!

download them here:

www.e-zflight.com/alphabetcaps.dxf

Here is a preview:

Eric

[balsaman]

I made the name plate gcode file:

Eric

[ExtremeLite]

Originally posted by crankorgan
Thanks PanzyPoof,
The truth is, if I had a job I would give out FREE CNC plans. As it is now, that's how I earn my living. If people look back over my posts, you will see I give out free advice all the time. I know some people will be able to figure out how it's done just by looking at the pictures. Many people have built my designs by just looking at my website. Until I came along you either put out big money or you had to hack printers and plotters..... Using hardware store parts was my dream!

I would also like to thank PanzyPoof and others at this time for helping me pay my bills!!!

John

Thanks for the info. However I live in the UK. I would be delighted to order a set of plans if you would change your policy of only shipping to the USA?

ExtremeLite

[crankorgan]

Originally posted by ExtremeLite
Thanks for the info. However I live in the UK. I would be delighted to order a set of plans if you would change your policy of only shipping to the USA?
ExtremeLite

Hi,
The plans are worthless without the aluminum window channel
found only in Canada and the US. Thus my policy! People from other countries can't seem to understand this until they get the plans. Then they want me to ship them the aluminum channel they said they could find! Been there done that. The US and Canada have very simular building standards. So we have the same kind of building materials. Companys close to the border
use products from both sides. The aluminum channel in Canada is a little different but still usable. I have three years of experence of what you can find where!

Cranky

[balsaman]

Extreme,

Hmm, yeah that sounds like it's a problem. If you can read dxf files in a cad program I can send you my drawings. Nothing special just some 3 views and some of the major MDF part lay outs with a few dimensions. No step by step or anything. let me know and off they will be.:)

Guys I did the heatsink thing to keep those transistors cool as a cucumber. Much better now as the heatsinks are getting warm and the door will keep its paint! Yes it looks goofy but boy is it functional! :D

You guys getting sick of my pictures yet? Let me know and I will stop posting so many. This thread is not for the baudrate challenged!:p

Eric

[PanzyPoof]

Just upgraded my Brouser so Hope this works! N 7

balsaman. No Keep the Pic comming.
My God what have you built!
Looks like it's from a B Si fi movie. :eek:
I just did some light switches the're OK .
1 switch for All Stop. One for CNC machine and anouther for the Dremel.

Ahhh that's why ya don't ship Plans Overseas. My Alum Channel was $45 Can.
Plus Shipping say $20 . Hmmm ? You could always add it as a package for overseas only.
But if they blow the Alum or it's damaged Ya Big headache:rolleyes:

Tree Fungus is dropping by this evening we want to set up a Template to post drawings too. something like that Hmmm!

[crankorgan]

Originally posted by PanzyPoof

Ahhh that's why ya don't ship Plans Overseas. My Alum Channel was $45 Can.
Plus Shipping say $20 . Hmmm ? You could always add it as a package for overseas only.
But if they blow the Alum or it's damaged Ya Big headache:rolleyes:


PanzyProof,
Send me the pic you want on my 1 percent page. Also I came out with MORPH so eveybody could build a CNC machine. But they still wanted Brute and 7th Sojourn so I pulled the plug on foreign orders. I only got about 12 foreign orders per year and most of them were my buds in Canada. Today Canada is almost half my business....Oooh! Canaaaadaaa!

John

[ExtremeLite]

Originally posted by crankorgan
Hi,
The plans are worthless without the aluminum window channel
found only in Canada and the US. Thus my policy! People from other countries can't seem to understand this until they get the plans. Then they want me to ship them the aluminum channel they said they could find! Been there done that. The US and Canada have very simular building standards. So we have the same kind of building materials. Companys close to the border
use products from both sides. The aluminum channel in Canada is a little different but still usable. I have three years of experence of what you can find where!

Cranky

Cranky

Thanks for clarifying that. On to plan B.

Balsaman

Can you send the files to n.ashworth@ntlworld.com I am in the process of scrounging some linear bearing for the Z axis which should be roughly the same as your setup. As I need a slightly larger cutting area 15 by 30 inch. I will need to mod the x and y axis sizes but this will probably be dependant on what bearing I can find lying around.

ExtremeLite

[balsaman]

I will send them Extreme.

PanzyPoof, what would you do without chickmagnet?:D Seems he is over there more than you are. His wife is going to suspect something soon....maybe your wife too. ;)

Hey the switches work. My machine was running with switches too but I can never just leave well enough alone! Never have been able to.:D I always gotta tinker till I finally break it!

The router speed control I found at work (what else is new). It was a curcuit board designed to control a vibrator. Not the kind you think.;) The kind that gets mounted to a chute or whatever to vibrate the parts along like a conveyor. I checked it out and all it did was vary the voltage to the unit when you play with the knob. Hooked it up to a drill to test it and it was perfect. Now it's recycled as a router/spindle speed control! Good for 15 amps. I found it so I had to use it! You should see all the stuff I collect! most of it is burnt out or broken. A lot I just use for parts for projects: Resistors/ transistors/ caps etc. If its mounted to a heatsink I keep that too. Comes in handy sometimes :). Some of it i repair, like the 20 volt powersupply I use. If I collect two I make one that works. I am an maintenance electrician so I swap out parts and circuit boards all day! Some of them get sent for repair but most isn't worth it. They go in my junk drawer.

Another long post.:rolleyes:

Crank it up!

Eric

[Zoltar]

Hello Group,

Here a suggestion for those who want to use this required aluminium channel, but cant get them (in EU or elsewhere). There is the possibillity to build it up out of segments and rivet/screw them together. You can use L shaped or U shaped profile for the base and corner profile for the running surface. For actual sizes see crankys plans....

[crankorgan]

Originally posted by Zoltar
Hello Group,

Here a suggestion for those who want to use this required aluminium channel, but cant get them (in EU or elsewhere). There is the possibillity to build it up out of segments and rivet/screw them together. You can use L shaped or U shaped profile for the base and corner profile for the running surface. For actual sizes see crankys plans....
Hi,
One guy did that here! I would suggest if people want a cheap CNC machine and they don't live in the US or Canada. Buy Zoltar's kit. Importing plans can be expensive after you convert your money to dollars. All my parts and dimensions are also in inches not metric.

John

[PanzyPoof]

balsaman. ya know I'm Jelious right.
It's too:cool:

Ya Tom's been a Real Help and motivator for this project . We've been buddies and RC/ing for over 20years now. Same goes for Rudi Thanks Guys:D

So he set up a template for trhe Trolly.
And now all he's has to do is place the object in the box G=code it check the file.
And fire it off to me. I cut it. So he's really doing most of the work for now untill I learn more about this cnc animal :confused:

[balsaman]

PanzyPoof, just be sure you cut two of everything. One for Tom, one for you....:)

Eric

[crankorgan]

Originally posted by balsaman
PanzyPoof, just be sure you cut two of everything. One for Tom, one for you....:)

Eric

I think he sould make three of each, then sell one putting him in the 1/2 of 1 percent group :)


John

[Tree_Magnet]

Now I have to start cutting alot of foam wings now that panzy's going to be pumping out wood :D

Tom

[crankorgan]

Originally posted by Tree_Magnet
Now I have to start cutting alot of foam wings now that panzy's going to be pumping out wood :D

Tom

Hmmm! I wonder how many people have both machines?

1/2 of 1/2 of 1 percent!

John

[ExtremeLite]

Originally posted by balsaman


So: Z axis = motor, solid coupling to shaft, bearing captured by a nut, Delrin nut. No support on the other side of the nut (it will be a short screw ~4"

x and y axis = motor, solid coupling to shaft, delrin nut, bearing captured by a nut.

Eric

Balasman,

Thanks for the files I have been looking through them and getting my shopping list together!

Can you explain the Delrin bearing ends again. If I get it right you have drilled and mounted the Delrin for each axis with a bearing(s) set in the blocks, is there one each side of the blocks. From the pictures and diagrams I can only see one!

Also what couplings did you end up implementing

Many Thanks

ExtremeLite

[balsaman]

These were the delrin bearing holders. Mounted fixed on the machine, captured by a nut. They take the thrust load of the axis, so the motor bearing don't have to take that load.

It's hard to see, but the 1/2-10 rod is machined down, then threaded to accept a 5/16 nut. No side play can be detected at all. I actulally used two 5/16 bearings in there.

Eric

[balsaman]

,

[balsaman]

Coupling

Sorry but the drawing I sent you isn't too detailed. Some of it changed as I went along too. I was going to use bronze bushings in the delrin originally, so they are not shown properly in the drawings. Also some overall dimentions changed along the way too. Use them as a reference only.;)

Eric

[crankorgan]

The Phoenix is finished! Say that three times fast! Phoenix shown after cutting 1/4" plywood at 6" per minute using a four fluted carbide bit.

John

[balsaman]

Good job Cranky!!!!

The phoenix is finished! The phoenix is finished! The phoenix is finished!

Looks great!

Eric

[balsaman]

John,

Another first! First person to design a removable base ganty style machine.

Eric

[crankorgan]

Originally posted by balsaman
John,

Another first! First person to design a removable base ganty style machine.

Eric

The machine works like the 7th Sojourn. The Rails are longer
and the Y-Z axis move on the Trolley. The Centering Blocks are a new concept. The removable cutting board saved my sanity. The first machine I built after looking at the one at HobbyCNC. Having the Rails hidden underneath gave me big headaches. Phoenix has a longer weelbase on the Trolley. I would rather have less cutting area than yawing. The Centering Blocks let you get the machine running, then you can do final calibration. The 7th can be adjusted by shimming the pipe flanges while the Phoenix only needs a screw driver. My website is getting tons of hits this month. January to May is CNC time. People work on big projects
during those months.

John

[Joe Petro]

I ordered plans for the 7th Sojourn from John, then i found this thread. It took me 3 days to read all of the posts!

You guys are awesome! Just about every question I have so far has been answered here. Most by John himself!

I plan on being in that 1/2 of 1 percent group.
With so much support here, how can I not?

Thank you all for this thread, and thanks John, for making it possible for me to take the first step!

Joe Petro

[Joe Petro]

Get it?
First "step" :)


Joe Petro

[PanzyPoof]

Balsaman. 2 er make that 4:confused:
Once you're buddies find out the list gets longer. Waiting on Treemagnet to submit first files. And I gotta cram a few step by step sessions with him to get the basics in.
It's a hole new hobby and steep learning curve ;)

Been thinking any one considered a wire frame see threw plastic Dust tent ? Vac on one end filter on other. Zipper centre door, Hmmm?
I havent kicked up that much dust yet:(
Ya Joe got it;) Good luck on you're machine.

[crankorgan]

Originally posted by Joe Petro
I ordered plans for the 7th Sojourn from John, then i found this thread. It took me 3 days to read all of the posts!

You guys are awesome! Just about every question I have so far has been answered here. Most by John himself!

Joe Petro

Hi Joe,
This thread is large and informative. Just knowing what software to look for is the time saver. Seeing how someone else gets something working is neat!


John

[Tree_Magnet]

hey cranky the phoenix looks good. how does it compare to the style panzy made (i forget the name of it). improvements over the other one...

Tom

[crankorgan]

Originally posted by Tree_Magnet
hey cranky the phoenix looks good. how does it compare to the style panzy made (i forget the name of it). improvements over the other one...

Tom,
The Phoenix can cut parts 9" x 24" long. It is possible to re-feed the part again and again so longer parts can be cut. The machine is longer than the 7th. The 7th is easier to adjust and since the Y and Z are mounted on a wall, the machine is a little more rigid. But for cutting wood they perform the same if built correctly.

John

[Joe Petro]

Is this topic dead now?
Has this thread been moved?
What's up?

Joe Petro

[crankorgan]

Originally posted by Joe Petro
Is this topic dead now?
Has this thread been moved?
What's up?

Joe Petro

Joe,
It seems to go in spurts.

John

[PanzyPoof]

Joe by no means is this topic Dead.

It's just waiting for the next CNC builder to lead it on. (You) .

I'm just a Satisified:D Owner now;)
And student of CAD:confused:

[AirX]

Hi Cranky,

The new year looks pretty decent even though the economy seems stalled and the threat of a war on the offing, the company I work for looks to be busy fo a while. I am interested in cuting balsa from cad files as this thread has elaborated on the manny machines everyone is building, I too want to get started on one of Cranky's machines. I still anticipate a few more months before being able to afford to start aquiring the plans and parts to build one... unless I win the lotto tonight. :)

Anyway I watch the thread and look to see what is developing with the people who are building thiers, it just builds up a lot more desire and conviction to follow them.

So which one is the best one for me, not a lot of room for a large machine but enough to cut something at least 36 inches long?

Eric

[balsaman]

Next week, when I have time, stay tuned for a vacuum table attachment thingy with, more pictures.:D

Eric

[balsaman]

I think 36" is going to be a chalange for an inexpensive machine. The steppers and controllers won't be a problem, but you may have to find an alternate material for the machine, as MDF has some limitations, as cranky has found out. Also bear in mind that a 36" cutting area requires something larger than a 36" machine. For example my machine has what I consider to be a large cutting area of 12x24 and has a foot print of (over) 35"x 28". Now I am no engineer and I am sure someone can make it smaller but the point is it will be longer than 36" when it's done. It seems a gantry style makes the smallest machine for it's cutting area. John's Phoenix is a good example.

Eric

[chrisbarker]

Balsaman,

After using your CNC for a while now do you think that your choice to use the 1/2" Acme leadscrews was a good one? Do you get the resolution that you want with a lower pitch than 20 TPI? Is there alot of inertia effects with a larger leadscrew at higher speeds.
I am able to get 1/2" Acme stock in 3' lengths and nuts at a local hardware store as well as the normal selection of all-thread. I just wanted to know what you thought from your experience.

Thanks:),
Chris

[crankorgan]

Originally posted by AirX
Hi Cranky,

So which one is the best one for me, not a lot of room for a large machine but enough to cut something at least 36 inches long?

Eric

None of my machines cut 36 inches log, unless you move the part forward and take a second cut. Phoenix has that feature like all gantrys. The cutting base allows for continues feeding. Other than that you better keep saving!!!

John

[crankorgan]

Originally posted by chrisbarker
Balsaman,

I am able to get 1/2" Acme stock in 3' lengths and nuts at a local hardware store as well as the normal selection of all-thread. I just wanted to know what you thought from your experience.

Thanks:),
Chris

Chris,
Make your own nut by taping a 1/2" block of Delrin. You can also make your own nuts out of cutting board plastic or nylon. Regular metal nuts (brass) have backlash. When talking balsa resolution is not in the picture. Any threaded rod with a Delrin nut will work. A balsa part that is within .001 is nice but .006 works also.

John

[chrisbarker]

MDF is heavy and isn't the strongest for it's thickness. Short of going to metal I think that aircraft plywood will offer the best strength.
I know that it gets away from materials that are commonly available at Home Depot, Lowes, etc.
Finnish Birch is another name for it.
Also there is Apple ply; a hardwood plywood (as opposed to hardwood veneer on the face and softwood core) that has the same number of ply's, 11 I think for 3/4", and is available through your cabinet supply lumberyards.

Chris

[chrisbarker]

Cranky,

The nuts that I can get for the Acme thread are long coupling nuts. I like your idea of a delrin nut but if I use the acme thread then I have to locate an acme tap. 1/4"-20 all-thread may do just fine also. All are possible as I'm in the planning stages and tossing around different ideas. That is where the aircraft plywood idea came from and your experiences with your new machine. Thank you for being such a good resource!

Chris

[AirX]

I suppose it is not that big of a need to have a 36" cut several pieces put together would suffice. It will only cut balsa anyway... and maybe a little plywood...:)

So the pheonix is the the one for what I would need, I have been to Cranky's web site a few times, I have not been lately has the pheonix been posted yet?

Eric Barnett

[crankorgan]

Hi All,
I got burned with MDF on a very large machine. If I had a large flat surface to set my machine on, the design would have worked. As it is MDF is limited to a length of about 40 inches. After that its own weight starts to bend it. I don't have a large flat table so I don't expect anyone buying my plans to have one. I was looking into metal DOORS when I saw a way to salvage my parts to design and make Phoenix. I have several interesting pieces just waiting for a good base. There are ways to build a sturdy base using regular carpentry, but I want something SIMPLE. I have a friend who could make a base for me for FREE! But what if that same base cost $200 for someone to have made. I would hear about it!

Keep it SIMPLE

John

[balsaman]

If I did it again I would use the 1/2"-10 acme rod again. Now bear in mind that I got the rod for free. The fellow who supplies fasteners to the company I work for had problem with his computer at home. I fixed it for him. He gave me the rod (and a 1/16" to 1/2" drill index full of bits :) ) in exchange. I actually asked him to get it for me to purchase, but he didn't charge me. I think he told me it was around $12.00 per 3' length. I think you get a bit more speed because of the low pitch, but it takes a bit more torque to turn the heavier rod, so it's a trade off. I was getting about 20" per minute max on a 12 volt supply with 100 oz. steppers. I think if you use 50-60 oz motors, you better stick with the smaller all thread.

Also, a tap for 1/2-10 acme rod is hard to find, and very expensive when you find it. I thought I had a tap at work, but the smallest they had was 5/8" acme. I made my tap from a bit of the rod. Ugly, but worked like a charm.

Eric

[balsaman]

We seem to be having a "spurt"...... :D :D

Eric

[crankorgan]

Hi,
I use 1/4-20 threaded rod for the following reasons. 1. It's cheap! 2. It can be found in most hardware store. 3. The TAP to make the drive nut/bar can be found in the same store and costs only 4 to 7 dollars. 4. The 20tpi converts the 50 to 60oz motors into 150 pound killers. 5. It will flex a little side to side preventing binding due to bad building by beginners.
I use very high quality 1/4-20 rod. I get it from a place that sells industrial cutting tools. The 6 foot length I buy sets me back $1.50. The rod comes oil coated. The Home Depot type is zinc plated to prevent rust. That will also work. If you are looking to cut steel or aluminum at fast speeds, 1/4-20 won't work! The Delrin nut will also compress causing backlash. BUT, if you are cutting plastic-wood or wax, 1/4-20 rod works!

John

[crankorgan]

Originally posted by AirX
So the pheonix is the the one for what I would need, I have been to Cranky's web site a few times, I have not been lately has the pheonix been posted yet?

Eric Barnett

Here is a pic!

[balsaman]

If you are looking to cut steel or aluminum at fast speeds, 1/4-20 won't work! The Delrin nut will also compress causing backlash. BUT, if you are cutting plastic-wood or wax, 1/4-20 rod works!

No rod will allow a home made machine cut aluminum or steel at high speed. If you would like to cut steel you better buy a real mill. Mine has cut aluminum slowly. I have tried to cut steel quickly (crashed into a steel bolt that holds the part) and it was not pretty! Cranky is correct the delrin nut compresses, also a seemingly rigid MDF frame flexes. I can't flex my machine by hand. I watched the router bounce when it crashed. I didn't miss steps when it crashed. Those little motors really work when coupled to a threaded rod. You get a ton of mechanical advantage.

If you are considering plywood, be sure it's straight. MDF may not be super strong but its straight and flat. It also looks like steel once it's painted. Most people who have seen my machine ask me what it's made of. They assume aluminum or steel. It's strong enough to stay together on my machine. Most plywood I have seen is naturally bowed under it's own stresses. MDF is also cheaper. Especially if you use some of the expensive plywoods.

Eric

[balsaman]

Cranky I see you have been working on your web page pictures. Very nice! Professional looking. Do the 7th next! (My favorite)

Eric

[balsaman]

Cranky I see you have been working on your web page pictures. Very nice! Professional looking. Do the 7th next! (My favorite). Seems we have a posting frenzy happening.:D

Eric

[crankorgan]

Hi Gang,
In the proper hands MDF and Plywood are both good. I however like MDF because I can tap it with 10-24 threads and bolt the pieces together. Plywood flexes less but I have never had any luck working with it. A 2' x 4' piece of MDF is only $9 and it fits in your car. You can sand it in quickly. Only paint MDF with a brush unless you are sure the paint you have won't soak in. Krylon disappears into MDF.

John

[balsaman]

Here is my first all CNC cut plane nearing completion. Just need to mount the motor and hook up the lingages. Yes, it's already covered.:D All clear covering.

I have more ideas than time. I draw up planes in CAD all the time! Mig-3 is up next for the CNC.

Eric

[balsaman]

Mig-3

[crankorgan]

Originally posted by balsaman
Cranky I see you have been working on your web page pictures. Very nice! Professional looking. Do the 7th next! (My favorite). Seems we have a posting frenzy happening.:D

Eric

Eric,
Painting the 7th brown was not my idea. I know if I painted it gun metal grey it would look and sell better. Grey photographs well! Brown is a nightmare! If I get too close with my camera the Brown shuts my camera down. So I had to shoot the pictures using natural light and flash. I had to carry the machine up a flight of stairs by myself to the living room. I got stuck making the turn. I had to turn it on end. MDF is very heavy.


John

[chrisbarker]

Balsaman,

I've got a Mig-3 on my bench right now. It's a PSS slope glider. Lost foam fuse and glass, foam and balsa wings. Neat looking plane. If you can, make those wing fillets hollow, because they are really wide.
My origional idea with a CNC is to route a 3D fuse in foam. Of course I'll be able to route balsa too. I'm finding out that it is not a simple matter or inexpensive.
I've got the motors, the large parts box, building and computer experience. So I have to just come up with a plan.
I like the idea of making my own Acme tap.:)

Cranky,

I can understand your preference for MDF. It is solid, substantial and uniform material. On the flat it will bend but if you make an "L" out of it it will reinforce itself.
Good luck!

Chris

Chris

[crankorgan]

Originally posted by chrisbarker

Cranky,

I can understand your preference for MDF. It is solid, substantial and uniform material. On the flat it will bend but if you make an "L" out of it it will reinforce itself.
Good luck!

Chris



Chris,
My machines are designed so parts can be handmade. Making strips to form "L"s would require a table saw or you would
have to have someone cut them. I tried some square steel tubing and that worked. I then went online only to find all Home Depots don't carry it. A steel door for around $60 to $80 is what I was searching for!
There are several things we could really use to make CNC better. A cheap spindle assemble and cheap linear rails. We got the controllers and software. The linear rails can be replaced with gas pipe and roller skate bearings. We need a spindle that will support longer bits. Routers have limitations. I would also like a nice quite cutting spindle.

John

[chrisbarker]

Cranky,

For me to cut a strip on the table saw is no big deal but that is just me and the fact that I do that for a living. When I began in the business I didn't have much of a shop and I took a woodshop class in the local adult school where i had access to larger and more of a variety of machines and some of my work was done there. It was like if I had the will I could find the way to get the work done.
I think most people can cut stock to length easy enough. Home Depot is full of 1x2, 1x3, etc. in pine, fir, MDF, plywood and so on and it is just a matter of designing with those sizes in mind.
Now the car thing for you, from what I have read, where if it ain't easily gotten, it ain't gotten, forces you to design to the lowest common denominator. It makes it attainable to all who want to do it.
My hat is off to you for that!
I would like to find out more about the type of spindle you would want but I'll save that until another day.
The baby is crying.
:mad:

Chris

[PanzyPoof]

Cranky; Ya the Phonex looks Good.
Nice and long table ! Good for Spars,
And fuse sides . You could screw a piece or two of Alum angle same as used for trolly bearing mounts, under the Span! That would stiffen it up alot.
I've been wondering a better way to do a Parts hold down Clamp/Frame. 1" foam and pins seem to be fine for balsa . But Ply is kindda hard to get the pins threw:mad:
I like the Keyway grove Setup you got Eric!
Thinking along that Idea!!!
Like the Piece of Lexan I have left, drill and taped it for 10/24 nylon screws, that can be placed in strategic locations .
{Carpet tape Hmmm! }
Anyone got anouther Idea ?

[crankorgan]

Originally posted by chrisbarker

Now the car thing for you, from what I have read, where if it ain't easily gotten, it ain't gotten, forces you to design to the lowest common denominator. It makes it attainable to all who want to do it.
My hat is off to you for that!
I would like to find out more about the type of spindle you would want but I'll save that until another day.

Chris,
Building out of nothing became my secret! People don't have as many tools as their fathers did. The car thing is becoming funnier everyday! I can afford the car, but the insurance is three times higher now because I quit! I drove for 30 years without an accident or points. All I wanted to do was get rid of the old car and wait six months. The insurance company wanted me to keep paying for a car that did not run until I bought the new one. Years ago I got rid of my cable because they would not fix the broken connector on the pole. It is still broken and I now have a dish. I have a hardware store across the street from my house. The guy who owns it uses it as a write off for his other incomes. It has almost nothing in it! So as you can see, all this comes together to produce cheap CNC machines.

John

[AirX]

Thanks for the picture Cranky, I will visit your page tonight when I get home, I am at work now.

Balsaman, cool plane. I am working on a Predator right now. I will hand cut the parts when it is time to build it for I do not think I will have a CNC built by then.

Thanks to all who chimed in to help me and in the future I hope to ask much more of the minds in this forum.

Eric Barnett

[crankorgan]

Originally posted by PanzyPoof
I've been wondering a better way to do a Parts hold down Clamp/Frame. 1" foam and pins seem to be fine for balsa . But Ply is kindda hard to get the pins threw:

What about a thin piece of tin using those $1 Radio Shack magnets.

John

[crankorgan]

Try this! Take a section of old computer case. Buy some Radio Shack magnets. Mount the Metal section of case to your bed. Use magnets or magnets with quick clamps mounted to them. Magnets will work right on the balsa. Plywood tests show magnet needs to be mounted off to the side.

Test pic

[crankorgan]

Test pic

[Joe Petro]

Great idea, John!
I have been looking at ways to secure the work.

I can't wait to get my plans!

Can anyone post a video of your machine doing it's thing?
I have never actually seen one of these in action, and it would give me an idea of what mine is supposed to do.


Joe Petro

[crankorgan]

Originally posted by Joe Petro
Great idea, John!
I have been looking at ways to secure the work.

I can't wait to get my plans!

Can anyone post a video of your machine doing it's thing?
I have never actually seen one of these in action, and it would give me an idea of what mine is supposed to do.

Joe Petro

Most webhosts charge you for the amount bandwidth and file sizes downloads. I will look for a movie of a CNC and report back.


John

[crankorgan]

Here is movie.
Here is a trick! You show the machine running fast cutting a piece of wood doing the final cut.


http://www.super-tech.com/root/miniroboiii/movies/mr3-075v.mpg


John

[Joe Petro]

As my son would say: PHAT!

I need more! More movies!

Joe Petro

[chrisbarker]

Don't buy Radio Shack magnets.
Look at this site:
http://www.engconcepts.net/Magnets/Magnets.htm

Chris

[PanzyPoof]

Ok Magnet Idea looks promising:)
What the heck is the N# system about for magnets. Higher # is it stronger?
And with a 1/2" magnet I can still use a foam 1/2" Cutting back plate. Clamps could pose a Hazard .

[crankorgan]

Originally posted by PanzyPoof
Ok Magnet Idea looks promising:)
What the heck is the N# system about for magnets. Higher # is it stronger?
And with a 1/2" magnet I can still use a foam 1/2" Cutting back plate. Clamps could pose a Hazard .

Hi,
The magnets sit on the sides of the board, glue some kind of low profile rod or clamp to them. The Radio Shack magnets are rare earth ceramic. I bought a bunch for $1 each. Mail order costs more to ship the magnets than the magnets are worth.

John

[chrisbarker]

PanzyPoof,

With neodymium magnets the higher the number the stronger the pull.
You will generally find N27 ~ N35 available. Stronger is more expensive as is size.
They will still hold thru 1/2" but closer gets better.

Chris

[PanzyPoof]

Ok will look into A magnet cut board setup.
Found these! some nice styles here!
http://www.leevalley.com/hardware/page.asp?page=42363&category=3&SID=&ccurrency=1

Off to the hobby shop for Wood. Gotta get serious now.

[crankorgan]

Originally posted by PanzyPoof
Ok will look into A magnet cut board setup.

Off to the hobby shop for Wood. Gotta get serious now.

You are lucky! I only have RC car places near me and a train store. I lost the place where I bought my hobby wood.

I just took the 7th Sojourn apart! I am painting it gun metal grey. As I paint it, the room seems to be getting brighter.
Why do I listen to other people! The funny part is the guy who told me to paint it brown, used work for UPS! When I only had two machines done, he said: Why are all your machines grey?
Now he can ask that?

John

[balsaman]

Good day all,

The magnet idea might work. Dennis, I would go with 1/4" foam for more pull. I have seen 1/4" foam with paper backing at walmart that might do the trick. It's by the posterboard.

I cut right over my wood table. The cutter just grazes the wood. I can see faint lines after I am done cutting. I use screws and clamps at the edges of the material. This poses two problems. One is the material isn't being supported in the middle. It lifts up from the spiral cutting flutes of the bit, or sometimes it's just naturally bowed a bit. Also it gives you something hard to crash into. I now use nylon bolts for that reason.

I think the vacuum table is the way to go. I already have the holes in my table. I will attach a vacuum hose and seal up the edges. I will hook it to the central vac of the house. I think i will use mostly clamps, but use the vacuum for certain jobs.

That movie shows a very fast CNC. Most are not that fast as far as I know. As John says he is doing a final pass there, or just rerunning the program over the cut material. I think he is probably using a chopper board with a 36 or more volt power supply.

Eric

Eric

[crankorgan]

Originally posted by balsaman


That movie shows a very fast CNC. Most are not that fast as far as I know. As John says he is doing a final pass there, or just rerunning the program over the cut material. I think he is probably using a chopper board with a 36 or more volt power supply.

Eric



Eric,
That movie is like a car commercial. They only show the car on open road or going around trafic. Allways show the best possible scenario. You never see a car commercial showing a car in bumper to bumper traffic!

If you saw my machine milling a circuit board it looks totally different. Six inchs per minute looks alot slower than 20" in
wood doing a final cut.



John

[balsaman]

More fun with CNC. How about personalized ailerons! As it says by my avitar, It's just PLANE silly!

:D :D :D :D

Eric

[PanzyPoof]

I went to the Lee Valley Shop and picked up 6 of these Magnets. Real Sticky! rare earth Hmmm?.
Love that Store. See link above!
3 for $11.95can (Chromed)
And found a piece of .065 Sheet metal. I don't wantta be skipping of the metal so will check out for that foam. Got $60 in wood so ready to build a Plane.
BalsaMan, Show us how you're doing that Vacume table?
Ailerons=Ya that's Silly but:cool:

[PanzyPoof]

Say Cranky that CNC Comercial? Unit looks home made also! You got some competition out there?:rolleyes:
Speed was nuts you can hear the bearing binding up on that Dremel at points.

[chrisbarker]

Hi,

I was just looking through my selection of stepper motors and realized that I didn't have what I thought I did.
I thought I had 3 Vexta 6v 1.2a, size 23 motors and I only have 2. Otherwise I have a 3rd 12v .4a, size 23 or a 6v .6a, (smaller, 1.5"x1.5").
Should I look around for a third identical motor or can I mix them?

Chris

[crankorgan]

Originally posted by chrisbarker
Should I look around for a third identical motor or can I mix them?

Chris

Chris,
You can use the 12V on the Z axis. A 12v motor running
on 12V will turn 2 times per second or 120rpms. Using 1/4-20 rod that is 6" per minute. When you cut at 12" per minute, you shound be plunging at a slower speed. Plunging is the tool cutting into the part before it starts moving. When you first start learing 6" is fast enough!

John

[crankorgan]

Originally posted by PanzyPoof
Say Cranky that CNC Comercial? Unit looks home made also! You got some competition out there?:rolleyes:
Speed was nuts you can hear the bearing binding up on that Dremel at points.

They better lower their price! That is the site that had free plans up! Nobody built one and nobody bought one! That was the site that caused people to tell me my plans should be FREE!
They better stick to selling motors......


LOL

John

[uscra112]

Competition? You bet! There's DOZENS of sites out there selling motors, plans, kits, you name it. All but Cranky seem to be thinking that you have to spend lots of $$$ to make anything, preferably with them. I like what Cranky's doing because it makes much better sense for most hobbyists.

Balsaman - those Rotozip tools are ground so the spiral pushes the material down when they cut, no? That would alleviate the lifting.

I found some 1/16" diameter carbide 4-flute bits with 1/8" shanks on eBay. $3.10 apiece. Bought half a dozen. Wish I'd gotten more. They work great! Gotta spin 'em real fast, though. Slow speed on my Dremel they load up with sawdust. Fast sped they cut very nicely. They cut pulling up, but they have a slow helix angle so the effect isn't noticeable. And with enough speed the chip-load-per-tooth is very small.

Cheers !

[crankorgan]

Originally posted by uscra112
Competition? You bet! There's DOZENS of sites out there selling motors, plans, kits, you name it. All but Cranky seem to be thinking that you have to spend lots of $$$ to make anything, preferably with them. I like what Cranky's doing because it makes much better sense for most hobbyists.


At $3000.00 I think one should buy the Zoltar machine! The problem with the designs out there is: They take expensive components and hook them to some kind of frame. The second problem is they keep using PRINTER style rail systems. For $3000.00 there should be no Dremel or Router.

Like I said once before. We need a Spindle motor system and stronger linear rails. There are people out there using a Sherline spindle on their homemade machine. Other are adding steppers to X-Y milling vises. I keep waiting for someone to come up with the REAL solution. I know it is not me! I lost enough sleep over the designs I do have.

John

[uscra112]

What would be the design parameters for the spindle/motor system? Price, speed, size, etc. I'm thinking. . . .

We know that super-strong rails are out there THK, NSK, SKF, Pacific Bearing, etc., etc. But they're way too expensive for hobbyists. For short travels, how about fork tubes from motorcycles? Nice and straight, smooth, rigid as the Rock, by our standards. Available from junkyards, cheap. Making a slide bearing for them is the trick. I still claim that epoxy may be the good way to go in that area. There's a lot of "full scale" machine tools that use the technique, mainly because it's easy and cheap! There's even a company in Germany that makes special kinds of epoxy, specifically for this purpose. The product is called Moglice. But you could just as well use Devcon 2-ton or JB Weld. You need a good mold release on the rail, but that's about the only thing that's in any way trick about it. I've DONE it in my previous incarnations as a machine tool builder. It does work.

[Joe Petro]

I got my plans from John yesterday... Woo Hoo!
I am gathering all the parts I will need.

John, you mention that you sell a pc board for the controller?
Can you give me some info on it? Price?

I think I'm gonna try to build the board myself...


Joe Petro

[chrisbarker]

Ya Cranky,

What size bits would you like to design a spindle for? :)

Chris

[chrisbarker]

Hi Again,

Some of my woodworking catalogs list UHMW (Ultra High Molecular Weight)plastic as "Slick Strips" for fences and jigs. Others list HDPE (High Density PolyEthylene).
Are they the same animal or are they different?

Chris