Looking for CNC Mill Part I

[balsaman]

Slides are done. I need my screws! I hope to have them tomorrow. Then I will mount the bearings and nuts. I will need to fine tune the size of the nuts so the rod won't bend/bind. Here is my progress. I also need to make my tool/dremel/router holder. I plan to use aluminum stock, just cause its shiney.:rolleyes:

This thing is heavy! I am glad my planes are not built from MDF and steel!

BTW, tapping the MDF is great! All the rail is held on by 1/4-20 bolts, tapped into the MDF. Every other hole. Very tight.

Cranky, nice job on your latest effort.

Eric

www.e-zflight.com

[PanzyPoof]

Nice Table
Here's a Pic of where I'm at.
Got the Square here to keep the bed square as I
Prep for Gib rails tomorrow.
Unit primed for now.
Trolly is super smooth! Just breath on it get it rolling, Only resistance is showing up with the y/Z sliders, simple fricton between Teflon and Alum.
Ya Cranky that new model looks well thought out.
And huge bed too:eek: What's the X&Y on that one?

Good fun so far:D
Denis

[crankorgan]

PanzyPoof,
You need to paint your gas pipe rails or oil them. Don't forget the skim coat of oil on the aluminum channel. You can adjust them dry. The new machine is a hoot! It's more of a building method than an actual size. It is designed to be made larger or smaller. I got several things going here, one is trying to clean up the fallout from cutting and sanding the MDF. I cut all my MDF using a hand saw and scrollsaw. I then sanded the parts to the line with a belt sander. Knowing the machine can be built with next to no tools is my goal. I build simple designs that can be made with simple tools.

Cranky

[crankorgan]

Balsaman,
Looks like you have $1000 worth of linear rails there! You can mount the dremel using a 3/4-12 tap. The quickest way is to use that tube that sets inside the depth cutter that comes with the Dremel. Looks like a funnel with a tube in it. My clamp holds the Dremel by two points. Youn can also buy a Dremel holder with a swivel and hack that.

Cranky.

[uscra112]

Cranky:
More like $3000 + I'd say. I often use those things in my day job, and those look to be capable of handling a 15 HP spindle! Wish I had friends like his!

Tried a Rotozip tool in my Dremel last night - it cuts balsa very well. I'd been using normal straight-flute bits. They pack up with chips ( OK sawdust ). The rotozip doesn't.

I've ordered up a set of steppers from Stepperworld, and my wooden wonder is coming along. MDF boxes and oak ways. No metal in it yet. Just wood and glue. Leadscrews will have to be metal, of course. Will have to go buy a digital camera to post photos. Could email .dxf files of the design if you're interested.

[balsaman]

PanzyPoof,

Looking good! Moving right along.

I made the tool holder. I will use a rotozip. I messed up and my holder will only hold a router up to 4" in diameter. Plenty for a rotozip, but I was hoping to be able to use a small router later maybe. I can always modify later if I need to.

I need to buy the rotozip. I will wait until the thing is working under it's own power.

The rail and bearings were free. Leftovers from a modified steel tube working machine. The machine was an endfinisher, to machine the rough cut ends. They were destined for the scrap bin, I rescued them. I hope they work.

Eric

[balsaman]

Here is the delrin nut on the Z axis. Thanks Cranky.

[balsaman]

oops. Try again.

You can see I like to use toolmakers blueing to make marks with an awl on the delrin and aluminum. Paint it on, then scratch the marks in the blue ink.

[DICKEYBIRD]

Originally posted by balsaman
I need to buy the rotozip. I will wait until the thing is working under it's own power.


Hi Eric,

Tell me more 'bout a "Roto-Zip." What are it's desirable traits?

Have you considered a "trim" router? I picked up my Porter Cable trim router from Home Cheepo for about $95.00. It seems much more robust and the bearings have stayed very tight after hours & hours of howling away. I think they're designed for more continuous duty than the Dremels and other hobby tools. It's bigger than a Dremel but still small enough that my puny steppers can handle it's weight.

It also has a 1/4-20 thread hole and a flat on one side that makes it easy to mount.

[balsaman]

I will look into a trim router. The rotozip is a hand held router thats used similar to a jig saw for cutting material. It has a rotating bit that does the cutting. You move it free hand. Most have a removable handle, making it similar to a small router.

Eric

[crankorgan]

Hi Gang,
The Dremel MultiPro comes with two roto-zip bits and a cutting attachment. A Dremel can run for hours on end. I have run mine for 6 hours on some jobs. Some routers are ment for intermitent duty. The Dremel's only drawback is noise. The RotoZip and other routers make more noise. If you are handy, you can use a good DC motor instead of the Dremel. You will need a coupler to mount the bit to the motor shaft. Florin uses a DC motor on his PC milling machine. Others use a homemade Spindle and a DC motor. The Dremel is overkill for balsa. I cut PVC with it! I am talking the MultiPro model. It has a field coil and armature. Older models used field magnets. The Dremel has the power to cut 1/8" plywood. Other material such as aluminum need more power and a spray coolent system.

Cranky

[PanzyPoof]

Group for some odd reason dremels always end up a Swap or pawn shops. Hmmm:rolleyes:
So check them out! No need for over kill on balsa
and any ply over 1/32 ain't going on my planes.

Here's my first sliding Base done. Smooth sliding add some Oil should be perfect.
Say whats a good source for Sealed bearings to use for the Bearing wall 5/8"Dia & 1.4" bore.
And I'm still wondering on the Floating nut best build/method.

[crankorgan]

PanzyPoof,
The Floating Nut allows for poor alignment of the drive system. It can be replaced with a solid block of Delrin if you are an experienced builder. If you are using 1/4-20 rod, it flexes on longer runs so you get away with one on the X and Y axis.

Cranky

[PanzyPoof]

I've got this Puppy laying around Collecting dust and it's good at that. Way overkill and too big for the design of this machine.
Eric Ok you can go there ;)

[PanzyPoof]

Cranky if ya got a Pic of the floating nut and Bearing Plate, and have some time could you post it too me?
7motel@interlog.com
It's one of those quirks! as I see it in design and on paper, But Hmmm?

[balsaman]

Eric Ok you can go there

Heeeyyyyy....just what I was looking for....:p I thinks its kinda large..:)

Nice job on the slide PanzyPoof. That store front aluminum is just the ticket for the guides.

Hey, we are close by..I just saw you are in Brampton. I am in Woodstock.

Good idea about the pawn shops. I will check around tomorrow. I still have no motors or controller. Checking the mail each day now. It's like waiting for Christmas when your a kid!

Eric

[PanzyPoof]

Woodstock is not too far. You with EMFSO?
And were you at any of the fun flies? :D
Toronto Hobby Show next weekend Eh!
This last Pic is the Gib Rail getting tweeked for fit. Gib Step is cut using the Dremel Table saw
Drawing a Razor, shaves out about a thou per pass,for the just right fit.

[crankorgan]

PanzyPoof,
Tell me you got the pics I sent.

Cranky

[PanzyPoof]

Ya got them. Thanks I understand it now better!
Never used or build one so I was Kinda iffy.
I got some long 1/4-20 nuts used to join the T/rods together was thinking it would work well also as a floating nut.
Also Got some delrin rod in the scrap bin. If it's worth the effort to make those nuts??

Teflon is $$ the guy wanted $10.00 for a 2.5"X 24"X1/4" Stick. Luckly He being a Biker & saw my Harley Shirt. So he quized me to see if I was just a shirt owner.
He smiled and gave it to me:D

[Tree_Magnet]

balsaman

need a controller make one i just finished my controller for my cnc foam cutter and is work very well. i built 3 axis controller for my mill/lathe combo but think i will use the one i just finished for my foam cutter, for my lathe/mill. i am also going to build a cnc router and will use the same controller.
the controller is from http://gm.cnc.free.fr/index_en.html (MM2001) I made the circuit board from the plans and got the steppers from sayal in mississauga. ( i told panzypoof where to get his they are the same as mine).

Panzypoof I was over at rudies to night running the steppers on the foam cutter and it works very well:D :D :D .
I should be finished your controller this week. so hurry up and get the router done bhahahah.
rude figures 2 or 3 nights and the cutter is done so i can start to look at cutting wings for my mosquito.

[Zoltar]

Hello all you CNC guys,

Ive just been building the steppercard from nc-step.
Its a German guy who is selling kits over the web.
www.nc-step.de

The kit contains all needed parts for building up the prints.
As I am no electronics guy I managed to get this kit together.

Here a pic from the parts ready for the final assembly.

[Zoltar]

And one finished from the front .....
It has indicator leds for the status.

[Zoltar]

It can deliver up to 2 Amps, more then enough for stable running steppers without any risk of stepperloss.

Have a look at his site. He offers also only the needed PCB and parts seperate. Its a double sided print industry quality :)

Regards, Chris

[crankorgan]

PanzyPoof,
You can use anything for a nut. Get the machine running, understand the whole system, then update the nuts. The
less slop in the nuts, the better the parts. Too much slop in the drive nuts will cause circles to be cut as ovals. You can adjust the slop out using the software. It's under BACKLASH.

Cranky

[uscra112]

That RotoZip looks like it has a small flange at the base which will make it easy to attach to a floor plate on the Z-axis. But it looks like a simple stamping. Is it robust enuf, do ya think?

[crankorgan]

uscra112,
It may be strong enough for balsa, but how about a crash? A crash being where the tool goes too deep or it crashes into a clamp. Will the body of the Roto-Zip break before you hit the STOP button.

Cranky

[uscra112]

Good point. When I design fixturing for our measuring machines, and they plan to robot-load, have to assume that the robot that's loading it will miss and clobber my fixture.

I've been thinking of doing mine with a vacuum chuck, using a 1/2" sheet of pink foam as the bed. It would be sacrificial, of course. My design is a moving-bridge (or gantry) style, and I'm using my hot-wire-cutter's vacuum box as the base. So I may never have a clamp to hit.

But there are only two types of programmers - them as HAS programmed a crash, and those who will. I once tried to rip a 1" ball-end mill thru the centerline of a 70-lb aluminum forging that was going to be a Blackhawk helicopter L.G. lower leg, IN RAPID, but all I accomplished was to wreck the tailstock for our indexer and spoil one forging. I didn't lose my job, but I should have . . .

[crankorgan]

uscra112,
Vacuum tables work great on larger parts. On smaller parts that are cut through, the vacuum may not be enough. Double sticky tape is OK! The best solution for balsa parts is going in the GCode with Wordpad or an editor and putting in hops so the parts is hooked to the blank with tiny bridges. Some water cutters use this method even though their cutter pushes straight down. Running a vacuum motor also adds to cost and the dredded noise factor.

Cranky

[PanzyPoof]

uscra112 which rotozip? the DeWalt? it has a full router base and side mounts would be a snap to hang on the table. But it's heavy and just too big Job power for here.
That's a nice looking Controller box.
Mine is from Cranky's Kit. Hmmm board and instructions! $30US and $45can in componets Metal box was $7 and power supply from old PC which was running my hacked DSS board for 4 years and cost me $50 then. But don't count that as power units
are like Bic pens !

tree magnet is building the Controler for this machine. Should be testing it soon, or once he gets the CNC Foam machine running.
Ya Ya no rush Tree Hugger I'm building... soon!
It's gonna be a shared machine between us
:D
I'm hanging Z today

[DICKEYBIRD]

Originally posted by uscra112
I've been thinking of doing mine with a vacuum chuck, using a 1/2" sheet of pink foam as the bed. It would be sacrificial, of course.
The 1st job I ran on my machine when I got it up & running was to drill 576 1/8" holes into my 3/4" ply work table. I then tapped every other hole 10-32 to screw clamps on for some projects and I use a shop vac hookup to grip sheet stock. Oh, I also drilled 3 pieces of 1/4" foam board at the same time to use as sacrifial backing. I've worn out 1 (both sides) already and am working on #2.

Yup, the shop vac and a 23,000 rpm router does make some racket....almost as much racket as the wife & kids make when I fire it up on a Sat. morning!:D

[Tree_Magnet]

Panzy get rude to make the nuts for you he did on the foam cutter and there is zero lash

[Tree_Magnet]

Dickybird i like your design have you any more pictures of it so i can steal:D some of your design. i am using drawer slides as well and like the way (from what i can see) that you did yours

Thanks

Tom

[uscra112]

Dickeybird - I like that one. Drawer Slides? They tend to have a lot of play. Did you preload one against the other to eliminate it?

Not having a moving a saddle on the bridge for the Y-axis lets you build a hefty support for the Z, with little overhang, and you can use a big, heavy router. Cool.

My kit from Stepperworld came today. I'd better get a wiggle on.

[DICKEYBIRD]

Thanks guys for the interest.:D Mine was built several years ago before I heard about Cranky's machines. It's a modified and strengthened Dan Mauch "Cimple Circuit Board Driller" from a Dec. '94 Nuts & Volts Mag. article. The drawer slides are the weak point....they're ok side to side but they flex too much when the table is extended and the table movement affects the Z depth accuracy. It does great for my sheet part cutting but the Z problem really shows up when I'm doing engraving or something that requires good cutting depth control. She'll be redone or replaced by a Cranky type design if I ever learn 3D CAD and start doing that kind of work.

Tree: I'll put up a couple more pix that will show you more.

[DICKEYBIRD]

'nuther

[uscra112]

Oughta be possible to make a truss under 'em to keep 'em from flexing so much.

[Tree_Magnet]

dickybird i use Solidworks and do all my cad work in 3D. solidworks has an add on call camworks which will do your g-code and toolpaths directly in solidworks. i also use a program call mastercam 9 to do my g codes now. master 5 cnc works really good as the " stepper controller software" and is i think $100 usd.

[DICKEYBIRD]

Originally posted by uscra112
Oughta be possible to make a truss under 'em to keep 'em from flexing so much.
Thanks, but it's not really the flexing in the fixed part of the rail assy. but the relative movement between the "moving" or inner part of the slide and the fixed rail. They're pretty decent in the "up/down" axis that drawer slides were designed for but not so good in the side to side motion. One can only get so much out of stamped steel.:(

Tree: Sigh, you're makin' me jealous with all that 3D talk. Maybe, one of these days!:) My problem is that the CAD/CNC stuff can be a hobby in itself and can take up all my airplane designing & building time if I'm not careful.

[Tree_Magnet]

I hope the cnc stuff never takes over my flying time but enhanses it:rolleyes: besides if it allows me to build faster = more planes + more fun / more crashes = more planes ........:D

[balsaman]

Woodstock is not too far. You with EMFSO?

No, not a member. I haven't been to an electric funfly. I plan to. Just no time this summer. :( Maybe next season. I am one of two club members who fly electric at our club in woodstock.

www.e-zflight.com/wrcfc/ is the addy of our club page.

About anti backlash nuts. I saw on the net guys make a nut from brass, cut in half 90% of the way through with a hack saw, then drill and tap half the nut. Install a set screw, which is used to adjust out the backlash by splitting the nut against the rod.

Here is a picture:

Eric

[uscra112]

Dickeybird:
Yeah, that's why I asked if you somehow preloaded them one against the other, to take up that slack. But the contact angle of the balls in those stamped races might be such as to require an awful lot of preload to be stiff, given that they're mounted flat like that. So the real deal might be two of them on each side, one laid flat and the other vertical. .....Nah, that doubles the cost.

A lot of machine tools made today have an epoxy material for the bearing surfaces in the slide. They coat the ways with mold release, then set the slide onto the ways with 1/8" or so of clearance, adjust it so it's in the alignment they want, then inject the space full of the epoxy. "Moglice" is the trade name. They're on the net. But good old JB Weld might do as well for our purposes. Use polished threaded rod for the way, and cast a semi-circle around it. Hmmm, I've got a bunch of old motorcycle fork tubes around - nice and straight, smooth, hard-chromed surfaces, plenty strong enough. . . . .

Heck, this is BETTER than planes - you don't need good weather.

[Tree_Magnet]

hey dickybird you should come out to an indoor electric fun fly they can be pretty good. next one is nov 22 i think look www.emfso.org its at sheridan collage in oakville

[crankorgan]

Hi Group,
Here is an antibacklash nut everybody can make. You start with a rod or bar of Delrin or Nylon. Tap a hole through the center. Slot the end once or twice. File in a groove around the slotted section. Put an O-ring over the slotted section in the groove. File a flat spot on the rod or use a side on the bar. Tap two holes for mounting. See Pic. A solid block of Delrin tapped has almost no backlash, but if you have to have an antibacklash nut here it is.

Cranky

[Tree_Magnet]

i read some where for nuts nut have no lash then you should have greater than I think 10 threads or so.
for my foam cutter i use 6mm rod (ease of use with the french software) and a home made nut .5 inches wide with a thread running thru. there is really no lash at all.

[PanzyPoof]

So Mounted the last axis.;)
Was over at Rudes and saw the foam cutter. looking good showed me the beef up with MDF you have in mind.
Grab some of those motor connectors for this one too.
He took of 5 thou of the Dremel handle so it would fit custom 1" holder plates.
It's nice & snugg 32 @4/40 X1"screws on that holder. Was a slow day ok.
Cranky why the washer spacers between the tool holder and base??
And how low (Bottom) should I mount it?so bit will touch trolly or just above a few MM ?
Will start stepper mount end caps tomorrow.

[crankorgan]

PanzyPoof,
On page 19 there is a part called a spacer. It goes between the Dremel holder and the Bed of the Z axis. Without this the Dremel holder would hit the Bearing Plate at the end of the Z axis. You don't seem to have the Bearing plate installed.

Cranky

[PanzyPoof]

Thanks Cranky for explaning the space didn't see that conflict. Got it!:D

[balsaman]

Good job panzypoof, looks great! Still no controller or motors in the mail today. I will have to email the guy and see when he sent them. I am on hold now till they get here. Probably at customs. :(

I found an old small DC motor at work and considering using it for the router. Its quiet, and I have a DC drive to vary the speed. Thinking of using a timing belt and pulleys to bring the RPM up to 6000. I have the collet off an old die grinder that holds a 1/4 or 1/8" shanked bit for that end of it. Is 6000 RPM enough for wood Cranky? I think the dremel and such are up to 30,000 rpm. I know the noise from the router will drive me nuts.

Eric

[crankorgan]

balsaman,
A simple O-ring can be used to drive a spindle. 6000 rpms should do fine with a four fluted bit. Lets ask Dickeybird how many rpms he is using. I think he is using a two flute bit.

Cranky

[DICKEYBIRD]

Originally posted by crankorgan
Lets ask Dickeybird how many rpms he is using. I think he is using a two flute bit.
Yessir, I use a 2 flute 1/16" carbide bit for my balsa cutting and it cuts well. My trim router turns 23,000 noisy rpm. To be honest, I'm no router expert but a friend of mine who is usually inherently right about woodworking stuff told me that I needed to turn the little bits as fast as possible.

[PanzyPoof]

balsaman
Was just at the shop where Tree Magnet and I got our motors from. See page1 for pic.
Funny back then they were $5.99 a pop today the few left are $15.00ea Hmmm?? They are now tested and work Vwell.
They also had some smaller ones. Also picked up the 3 bearings for the leadscrew end plate $15.00
So I got work for the weekend;) Don't think you can avoid the noise issue.

[crankorgan]

Hi Gang,
Looks like balsa likes the same speed as PVC and the Dremel is still the best choice.

Cranky

[crankorgan]

Hi Gang,
Here is a piece about cutting wood and feedrate. Looks
like 15K to 18K is what you need if you cut at 100ipm. I think
a Dremel set on it's lowest speed will do for our purpose. I think
6,000 is just fine.

Cranky


http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base/Feed_rates_and_spindle_speeds.html

[balsaman]

Woah,

I looked at the page cranky.. This whole cnc router thing is higher techer than I tought!:D

I am going to use both. I made my tool holder bottom plate removable with 4 bolts. I can make a plate for a small router, and another for my home made thingy. Remove one, install another.

Big talk for a guy who hasn't got a working x-y-z table yet:rolleyes:

Eric

[crankorgan]

balsaman,
My designs all have a tool holder that is removable with four bolts. I have a tech pen and a ballpoint pen fixture made for my machines. The tech pen can move up and down freely and the ballpoint is spring loaded. You can also make circuit boards by bluing the board and then having a scribe scratch between the traces. You then put the board in acid. What ever is blued stays. What ever gets scratched gets etched. This is called Scratch and Etch. Something I came up with while hanging out at the Yahoo homemade circuit board conference. A CNC machine is a perfect winter project. Lots of fun on rainy days too!

Cranky

[balsaman]

Well, I am waiting for parts now so I spent a bit of time running a network cable up to the shop so I can put my old laptop up there and have the network for sending gcode files. It's a 486 so I will just use it to control the machine via CNC Pro in DOS Mode. I will do the drawings and converting in my office where it's comfortable!

Can't wait for the controller and motors. One time when my wife was pregnant she told the doctor she couldn't wait for the baby to come. He said, we should have started sooner then.:) I guess this applies again. I should have ordered them sooner.

Eric

www.e-zflight.com

[PanzyPoof]

I have the same Idea! Only Tree Magnet pointed out you need to have the PC next to the CNC for ease of testing start/stops etc.
So I'm in the market for a old beater.
Which brings me to the Question how much HP does the PC need Ram, Windows version etc.?

Cranky how does this look? and don't understand the nature of the Alignment Coil?

[crankorgan]

PanzyPoof,
The threaded rod is under 1/4". By winding the copper wire onto the threaded rod, it becomes 1/4" and a tight
fit into bore of the bearing. If you mount the Bearing into the MDF
and use a spacer on the shaft. Where will the two bolts go that grip the flang of the bearing?

Cranky

[PanzyPoof]

(Alignment Coil) OK now understood.
(Where will the two bolts go that grip the flang of the bearing?)
I feel the wall of the MDF @ flange is too thin to support a flange lock down screw. So I plan a simple back bracket. The reason the 1/4" bushing is so I can change & lock down the shaft easily.

[crankorgan]

PanzyPoof,
By using a PVC bearing plate, you have a place to bolt
the screws to that hold the bearing in and the larger hole in the MDF allows access to the nut from behind. Your idea will work! But I think your are doing it with an extra part.

Cranky

[wallyh]

I am in the process of building Morph. So far I've been cutting and fitting pieces. I had some plywood and that's what I've used but I think that MDF would have been better. The picture shows some of the pieces.
Wally

[crankorgan]

wallyh,
I never had any luck with plywood. You can TAP the MDF.
How are you hooking the parts together. Glue and Nails?

Father of Morph

Cranky

[balsaman]

Which brings me to the Question how much HP does the PC need Ram, Windows version etc.?

PanzyPoof,

I am no expert on the cnc software, but I know if you plan on running the windows software, you better get a fast computer. I looked at Master 5 and they recommend at least 300 mhz. If you are comfortable with DOS, you can get away with much less speed. For example CNC Pro requires a 486 or better. I think I read (cranky said it) that the cheaper (read free) Windows software isn't real reliable. I would think that reliability is directly related to the speed of your computer. I plan to use a 486 and CNC pro in DOS for starters. I may try kcam for Windows on it too once I am up and running. This will save me from dropping to DOS mode when I need to run the CNC. We will see how it all unfolds.

Eric

www.e-zflight.com

[balsaman]

wallyh,

That looks good. I am sure it will be fine. Keep us informed on how it is going.

Eric

[Zoltar]

I did run against this website .....wich I would love to share with you all...

http://www.piclist.com/techref/io/stepper/linistep/index.htm

Some electronics wich maybe interresing for the serious Hobby-CNC-er.

---->>3600 steps per revolution with a 200 step motor!<<------

Quote: "It has some unconventional features like hardware AND software microstepping,and current ramping to give almost "stepless" operation at the tuned speed. And it will suit industrial apps with continuous use etc, no "toy" stepper chips in this design"

Did anyone actually- by accident- used this driverboard?

At 75 dollar for three axis, it does seem to be a good option.

Greetings from Holland,

Chris

www.rcmodels.net

[crankorgan]

balsaman,
Also check out TurboCNC. It runs under Windows DOS.
It works also on old 486 computers with Win3.1 DOS.

Cranky

[balsaman]

Yes,

I DLed it too and it looks great. I will try both.

Eric

[crankorgan]

balsaman,
TurboCNC is not CNCPro but it has everything needed to cut balsa parts. There is also a conference on Yahoo for it. It
only costs $20 to register. It runs for free! I tried them all. I bought CNCPro. I use KCam to convert my DXF files to GCode. I
like how you can plot the files on the screen and see where the
cutting will be. It helps me catch problems. It will also run the motors. I can't wait till someone makes a simple drawing program that will run the motors. DANCAD used to have everything you needed but it did not take in GCodes from other
program. I think there was a update to handle DXF files.

Cranky


Cranky

[wallyh]

Father of Morph:
The plywood is a type called Baltic - about 10 or 11 plys, no voids.
I've drilled and tapped all holes and ca'ed them. I seem to have pretty good holding power on the bolts. Still should have used MDF. Think I should glue and nail on the final assembly?
Wally

[crankorgan]

wallyh,
Sounds like really good plywood. I have never been able to get the ends of the plywood to take a nail or screw. I always had to use a strip of wood in the joint. If you got it to TAP, you can add glue later. I like bolting things together, it lets me make changes later on. I found if you paint the MDF parts and then bolt them together, they stick pretty good.

Cranky

[Zoltar]

wallyh,

Joining plywood can be done easy with joiners normaly used in furniture. There are several types of this available.

Mostly they exist out of two parts. A screw and screwblock.

Look and ask for it at your local hardware store.

Chris

[Tree_Magnet]

Balsaman i run master 5 on my p1 200 it takes a little time to fill the buffer and you can still rin mastercm 9 or autocad or surf the net in the back ground no problem. But yes a p2 300 or greater would be is much better

Tom

[balsaman]

Master 5 works great on my 'puter in my office, which is 900 mhz. I dont see what's so great about it though. It looks like Kcam 3 is just as good. I noticed that Ace does a better job converting too. Looks like a more efficient tool path. I have Mastercam too but have no idea how to use it.:rolleyes: I can't see how to get it to make the mill go, or to convert to Gcode. I can do some simple geometry, but I find it's awkward and doesn't use windows standards, which I find annoying. I see I can import DXF tho..

I will stick to the dos software for controlling the router. My 486 is 33 mhz! 24 Mb ram, which was huge for a 486 in it's day! I don't want to move my good computer to the garage!:D

Eric

[DICKEYBIRD]

Originally posted by balsaman
My 486 is 33 mhz! 24 Mb ram, which was huge for a 486 in it's day! I don't want to move my good computer to the garage!
My workshop/CNC computer is also an old 486/33 I saved from the dumpster at work. After I reformatted the HD, loaded up TurboCAD 3.01, (has fewer bells & whistles and loads up way quicker) CompuFoil, Ace Converter, MaxNC, Paint Shop Pro and an old, smaller version of MS Works I can work away at a pretty decent speed scanning, CAD'ing & CNC'ing to my heart's desire! Man if I'd had all this technology back in the 80's before I got married again, I'd have been some kinda prolific modeler.;)

[crankorgan]

Hi Gang,
Take it from me Less is More! It is better to have an old computer driving a homemade CNC machine than no machine at all. There are countries on the planet that don't have the internet. A 486 is a super computer there. How much more fun is flying a $1000 model VS a $200 trainer. Consider your machine a trainer! Less worries when the first crash comes!

Cranky

[balsaman]

crash?

Not another hobby that involves the "C" word:rolleyes:

Eric

[crankorgan]

Hi Gang,
More Windows software for CNC.


http://cpwojcik.home.att.net/Qstep/Quickstep_CNCx.html


Looks like KCam

Cranky

[Tree_Magnet]

Hey all ok what have you found to be the best (cheapest even better free) software for driving your cnc routers. names and web sites for down loads:D

Thanks
Tom (el-cheapo)

[crankorgan]

Tree_Magnet,
You can find the cheapest motor control software

at:


http://www.dakeng.com/software.html


It's called TurboCNC. Works free, $20 to register. It takes a GCode file and runs the motors. KellyCam used to be free, it no longer is. TurboCNC runs under Windows in DOS mode.


But just in case you wanted the whole picture Cheap!


1. You draw the part in DXF format with the FREE version of TurboCNC found on the internet.

2. You convert the DXF to Gcode with the FREE ACE converter. Comes with the CNCPro install.

3. You can also use FLASHCUT to see and convert the DXF to
GCODE. The FLASHCUT demo shuts off after a few days but it
will still display and convert DXF to GCODE.

Cranky

[balsaman]

Got my rod for z-axis today. It's hard to see but its turned down to 5/16, which is my bearing ID, then threaded, and the last 1/2" is turned down to 1/4". In this case, the 1/4" will couple to the motor shaft. On the other two axis, the coupling will be the end opposite the bearing.

So: Z axis = motor, solid coupling to shaft, bearing captured by a nut, Delrin nut. No support on the other side of the nut (it will be a short screw ~4"

x and y axis = motor, solid coupling to shaft, delrin nut, bearing captured by a nut.

here is a pic of the z axis shaft and bearing

Eric

[Tree_Magnet]

thanks cranky i'll look at them

Tom

[crankorgan]

balsaman,
When you assemble you X-Y-Z axis, just wiggle them with your hands. If everything feels tight, that's it! That will also be good for cutting plastic. When you cut aluminum or steel, you can't feel the play that will develop during cutting. The Delrin nut will compress-the end bearing will move ETC. This is why there were no hobby machine! Everybody was building machine that could cut aluminum and steel. The big market is the hobbyest!

Less is More!

Cranky

[Zoltar]

Cranky, Group,

I do agree on many points with you Cranky, and I like your cnc - concept. I also see that there is a growing number of people interested in CNC for hobby use day by day now.

The question remains what is hobbyism and where and when does it grow to be a (semi)pro?

Last weekend I had the chance to present my CNC-kits on a hobby/ modelshow with all kinds of modelbuilder-groups.
I took this opportunity to meet as many builders as possible and get some life inter(re)action and spread the word of CNC. One of the main questions from visitors concerning cutting materials, was- does your machine cut brass and aluminium? This is one of the reasons why I did develop the Zoltar-Machine as a rigid metal construction.

There is a group of boat, truck, car, train and other kind of hobby builders also interested in CNC-cutting >thin plywood, plastic, epoxy, sheet aluminium up to brass<.

I do agree with you Cranky that cutting metals tends to go to the more professional side, but there are many hobbyists who are very serious at what they are doing!

Airplane model builders will probably be fine with a "light"machine for balsa, maybe lite ply and plastics only.
But serious hobbyists from other hobby groups are definitely interested in cutting more then balsa only!

Regards,
Chris

[crankorgan]

Zoltar,
Here in the US there are more people who want to cut vood and plastic than to cut metal. We have two companies that sell metal cutting CNC machines. Those machines don't have the area to hold a sheet of balsa. They also lack the spindle speed to cut circuit boards. The largest group I have tapped into wants to make their own machine from scratch!

When I give advice here, its all about cutting balsa. I have repaired an updated a Bridgeport Boss. I know all about cutting metal. Please notice I am giving free advice to people who are not building my machines.


Cranky

[Zoltar]

Cranky,

Dont get me wrong.
I am not talking about a bridgeports or similar either.

>>Tabletop machines for hobbyuse<<

I just want to share my last experiences with this cnc-group and their visitors:
Again, what I noticed last weekend that beside routing balsa parts that there is a growing quest for routing parts from other thin materials up to sheet brass metals<1mm.
And I do not feel that the US is that much different from Europe.
We are all modelbuilders, so we do the same kinda stuff!

Since I have been exploring constructing parts with CNC, I found that routing lite ply, hollowing out parts result in very strong and still light parts. So I can say that I am already doing more plywood then balsa parts for my planes by now. Maybe lateron it will be even other materials. Its all about this great experiment!

There is no doubt about your craftsmanship by me in any way and your advices are very interesting.

But I feel that there are always more roads to achieve a goal.....
As this is a discussion forum it should bring more insight.
So in my opignion is as valueable as yours aslong we all learn from it.

But I think its a pitty that there are about four people running this group while there are more then 5000 views up until now and nobody further joining in?

Anybody?

G01.

Chris

[crankorgan]

Zoltar,
I am keeping it simple so beginners don't get overwhelmed. When you jump from cutting wood and plastic to
metals you need more power. You also need to spray a lubricant onto the part. You can only build your own machine if you have a complete metal working shop. There have been several companies here that tried to sell a cheap machine. They are all gone!

My goal is to show people how to build a simple CNC machine out of very cheap stuff with simple home workshop tools. People who scratch build RC already have these tools. A whole working system for $200 or less.

You are selling a kit. People who buy kits are a different group. I came here because this is where people still build things from scratch.

Cranky

[crankorgan]

Hi Group,
Here are some FREE DXF drawings for a CNC machine.


http://home.hccnet.nl/m.de.roode/drawings/dxffiles.zip


Cranky

[PanzyPoof]

Ya whow over 5100 views! Strong Subject here.
Like fishing lots of interest in the bait. Most are waiting to see the end result. Me Too;)
This Discussion area has exploded with many good threads. Check them out!

Guys Don't go there!
Everone is a modeler here! All kids at heart:rolleyes: So luts keep Building and learning OK.

I'm a few steps behind here (sick)
By Xmas may have a PC (P2 350) my old one back from Daughter hmmm:confused: Looks like a$$$Xmas for me:(
So back to building.

[Zoltar]

Sure, You must be right......!

But it does not matter if you make a machine from a kit or from a drawing, as long as it does work properly dependable.


Good luck to you all !

[crankorgan]

Hi Gang,
Here is a picture of the Z axis for the new Scrappy machine. This is also my last post!!!


Cranky

[PanzyPoof]

Damm I ment Kids at Heart! not act like kids and take you're Balls and go home.:mad:

[balsaman]

Hey Cranky, where you going? I look forward to your insights daily. Get back here, there has been some great discussion so far!

I like the z-axis on the scrappy. Looks robust.

Eric

[balsaman]

Hey I built a cool fully adjustable laptop carrier thingy. I wanted to save space, so I made an adjustable arm that holds the laptop. It can be swung out for ease of use, then swung in over the table while not being used.

I hope this thing won't shake too much to have the laptop mounted to it. Otherwise, I'll have to mount it to the wall or on it's own post on the bench or something.

Eric

Here is is open and ready to use.

[balsaman]

And closed, out of the way.

Eric

[uscra112]

Nice job with that arm, Balsaman.

[Tree_Magnet]

great idea balsaman think i could put my full tower 19: monitor and mouse ont it:D :D :D

[PanzyPoof]

Laptops are Sooo nice:mad:

[balsaman]

Got my motors and controller today! Things will move along now! The motors are supposed to be 100 oz. They are physically smaller than I expected but what do I know. :) Now to get them all mounted up. I seem to remember someone saying "don't spin the motors" So I won't. at least till I get one hooked to an axis.:D

Eric

www.e-zflight.com

[Zoltar]

Hello all,

I did finish today a web-page presentation on my newly build controller build from a electronic kit from NC-step, Germany.

It shows the components during buildup and casing

For those interested, have a look!

http://www.rcmodels.net/cnc/osterman/index.html

Regards,

Chris

[Zoltar]

Balsaman,

What kind of a coupler are you gona use?

Or none?

You should considder making one out of an air hose. These are really simple to make and work perfect.
Just turn a small adapter on a lathe some calmps and a hose and ready!

See pic.