Looking for CNC Mill Part I

[Coligny]

Thanks John

Well, I managed to overcome it thanks to your advice :D

What helped me was looking at examples projects people cut on their machines. It really inspires more than anything!

I wish people will post pictures of nice resuts here. Not the machines build, but the actual milled parts!

what do you say?

:rolleyes:

[crankorgan]

C.Marloth,
Alot of people bail after they get the machine jogging. One out of one hundred finish the machine. One half of one percent cut parts. When it comes to pictures only a few know how to cut-shrink and upload. The people who draw designs and never build anything get real good at uploading picture they draw or rip from other websites. Most Internet experts have not finished a machine. They give out advice based on what they have heard. I used to argue with them to no avail. I am working on my 35 machine. Every machine gets harder to finish. I can tell who is building and who has finished based on the questions they ask. Watch out for MOTORSPINNERS :)

John

[Coligny]

John
You obviously have much experience in these things.
I would still like to see cut examples. I am now at the point where I use machine to build itself! i.e. brackets for my dremel. I am using Ninos, but am having a hard time
getting it to work right.
It seems my pc is to slow, but I read some threads about lpt problems.
I used Vesconite for my drive nuts. Do you know this?

Regards

Coligny

[Coligny]

Another thing John,

I have a moving X gantry, I consider to convert this to a fixed Gantry with a moving table slab. I think it will be more acurate. Less play in general. I can prob drive it with 1 screw lead, instead of 2 screw leads linked with gears and chain(stripped from photo copier).

Am I thinking right?

Regards

Coligny

[crankorgan]

Coligny,
A fix gantry is easier to calibrate. In some cases it is better. Like everything in this hobby, it depends. Check out my widget section. www.crankorgan.com As for software I have not tried Ninos. I use TurboCad and ACE. I run the GCode using CNCPro. The last things I cut were prototype chopper controllers a few weeks ago.

John

[Coligny]

I looked at the site, as per your link, and it is frightning!

That clock is very impresive.

Let se if I can send pics of cutting as time progress.

Thanks.

Coligny

[Coligny]

Hi,

I have solved my software problems. Ninos likes win95 OSR2. (I use win 95 because it asks the least of the system)
It also wants limit switches.

Now I can start cutting, gain.

Regards

C.Marloth

[Coligny]

My first succesfull cut, in 3.5mm plywood, notice the sharp points, where my holding tabs where

[Mick Molloy]

WOW 2008 posts anybody ever hear of a PART 2 ( 3, 4 and 5)

I think this is going to take a few weeks to read.

[chbright]

i am wondering how some of the software works and where i can get an open sorce code that outputs step and derection to each channel. i was also wondering if any software has a jog feature where a joystick can control the speed that the motors travel.

[amirgeva]

I believe that this site has open source CNC software
http://www.linuxcnc.org

Good idea about the joystick. If you don't mind I'll integrate that feature into my software.

[chbright]

please feel free to integrate it into the program. that is a function i really would like.

[AirX]

Got my Hobby CNC 3-axis kit in today, looks great. Need to start gathering the parts needed to build a table.

Cheers,

Eric B.

[HobbyCNC]

Got my Hobby CNC 3-axis kit in today, looks great. Need to start gathering the parts needed to build a table.

Cheers,

Eric B.

Eric,
Keep us posted on your progress!

Dave Rigotti
www.hobbycnc.com

[AirX]

Hi Dave,

I will, this is going to be another part of the hobby as I love to design my own planes. Kit looks great and a great price too. Thanks for the great service.

Eric B.

[motorbikemike]

Hey everyboby, All I can say is wow! Super glad I stumbled across this thread. You guys might just be my new best friends. A few questions... first my situation. I am planning to buy a CNC kit from MicroKinetics (express Mill) to fit a Grizzly Mill (same as the enco/jet/rong-fu etc.) I was hoping to see the mill in action at the Chicago (IMTS) next month but their not going to attend. On paper the kit seems really nice but I would like a bit more info before I drop 5K on the kit. Dose anyone out there have a Microkinetics based cnc mill and how do you like it. hows the quality, reliability, and performance. has anyone delt with the company? overall hows there customer service and product quality? if anyone knows any helpful info please let me know. any other sugestions on a comprable kit.

I'm anxious to get a machine up and running

Thanks, Mike

[Jojje]

i am wondering how some of the software works and where i can get an open sorce code that outputs step and derection to each channel. i was also wondering if any software has a jog feature where a joystick can control the speed that the motors travel.

Why not doit with the hardware, u not even need to start the computer ?

U must test out R1 and C1.
If u change R1 to a pot or joystick, u can control the speed.
This is for one (1) channel. Change LM358 to LM324 if u make one board for all motors. I can post the PCB-design (X,Y and Z) if some1 want it.

/// Jojje

[HobbyCNC]

Why not doit with the hardware, u not even need to start the computer ?

U must test out R1 and C1.
If u change R1 to a pot or joystick, u can control the speed.
This is for one (1) channel. Change LM358 to LM324 if u make one board for all motors. I can post the PCB-design (X,Y and Z) if some1 want it.

/// Jojje

Would love to see a PCB layout.

Thanks!
Dave Rigotti
www.hobbycnc.com

[Jojje]

Would love to see a PCB layout.

Thanks!
Dave Rigotti
www.hobbycnc.com

Here it is ;-)

[HobbyCNC]

You da Man! Thank You!

Dave Rigotti
www.hobbycnc.com

[chbright]

Jojje, that nice, but i was needing a way to vary the speed be pushing the joystick over farther, i have tried a similar solution that used a rc circuit to controll the speed, but the end ranges of the adjustment are very touchy, i was hoping that running it through a computer would help get rid of the touchness. i believe the rc curcuit is exponential and thats why the fast end is too imprecise.

[kfong]

I've been using the micro mill to make cdrom motor mounts and parts. These mills go for under $300 at Harbor Freight. Size of part is limited, but you can precisely mill aluminum. I've been also using it to make parts for a bigger mill.

For more pics,
http://www.embeddedtronics.com/metalworking.html

[HobbyCNC]

Doesn't your setup restrict an already limited X and Y travel?

Dave

[TimKoene]

Hi all, will a block of acrylic work as well for the drive nut instead of delrin? It is very hard to find in europe... And I have the acrylic block.

[Rodrigo C.]

Hello everyone,

I must say this is a VERY long Thread but very informative!!

Let me say a bit about myself, I have been building planes for like 10 years with several breaks in between but I'm an adept of the do it yourself style.

About 1 year ago, when I started a project a 2,5m wingspan Tigermoth, I drawn it entirelly on Autocad and on the proccess of looking out for materials, ideas I came to know the possibility to build a these wonders (CNC machines), and said I MUST MAKE ONE.

I started to look out for CNC and found out Cranky's site, but got frustrated that I could not buy his set of plans since im from Brazil, no big deal, I said, I can draw one from the pictures and hopefully find help from people where I need it. I started to look out for what kind of materials I would need to build the CNC, like the guiding system, servos, drives, etc.

Then people started to turn me down saying it was impossible to build it cheap (vendors from THK and so on companies). I Even made an apointment with a vendor to see and to get to know a bit more about the mechanics, and the guy came off with expensive stuff linear guides, ball trheaded rods which would be impossible for me to afford, and said it would not work when I mentioned the materials I saw these things being built off.

To make a long story short, I gave up on the idea of making the CNC, since I could not get help locally from people. I put a hold on most everything realated to hobby, including my airplane building.

Unfortunatelly, at the time I made the decision not to try to build a CNC, I had just found this topic and had not read it entirelly....

Yesterday I had a meeting with a guy who sells airlplanes and I have developed some designs for him, and he told me about the CNC again... Then I read this thread (almost everything, went up to page 120 I think), and got lots of questions answered and I am really leaning to give it a try to build it this time.

One of the major problems I had was to find some specific materials, (at least the way I plan them to be). But since the start of the year I gained access to my university's lab's and I can have some stuff made for me there since I am coordinationg the engineering SAE'S Aerodesign team for my university, so I can have some parts made there, like bending metal and milling.

Ok, let's talk about the project, so far. I have nothing drawn or defined yet, I have a few sketches, lots of pictures, and a structure almost done in my head that I need to put down to paper, but before I do that I have some questions, that I may have missed, or were not asked before.

The materials I intend to cut is balsa, ply and of course give it a try at alluminium, nothing too thick or demanding.

I want it to be rather big, 1 meter (48 inches) by about 50 cm (24 inches). I want to be able to place the balsa sheet without having to cut it befire placing it into the CNC. So I believe with these dimentions I will not build entirelly with MDF, I have worked with it before, it's good, but not the best and at this size it will bend (correct me if I'm wrong).

I will try to go as cheap as possible.

Plan to use 1/4-20 threaded rod.
1" steel pipe for guiding system.

The plan is to design the mechanical system and build it, then I will look for the stepping motors and drive system, since from what I have researched last year, people tried to rip me off offering $300 motors, since I did not know what I needed exactly.

First question I have is:

I have seen on several pictures that the Y and Z axis are mounted on an extruded aluminim shape and the guiding system is made with "Delrin". Why not make them with tubes and ball bearings?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v400/Erondiel/Hobby/guide.jpg

This is the design I came with for making my guiding system, will this work with the regular steel pipe or do I need the "professional" shaft for this to work due to imperfection on the steel pipe?

If this works, can I make this for the Y and Z axis as well? maybe use a 1/2" pipe instead of 1" for these axis.

What is "Backlash" I kind of get the concept, but I would like to know more exactly what it is, if I should be concerned with it at all. I probably know what it means, but I'm afraid I misunderstood the "word" having to translate the meaning to portuguese.

I have seen 2 diferent setups mainly for the CNC's, which are the X axis mounted separatelly from the Y and Z axis (which are mounted into a kind of a "bridge" over the X axis. And the Y and Z axis mounted on top of the X axis.

What is the diference between these two aproachs? Stiffness?

About the Delrin: I understand this is a plastic, I'm wondering that if I can't find the "Delrin plastic" here in Brazil, what should I look for? Nylon, ABS?

I guess that's all for now, tomorrow I will run to a metal shop and see what kind of extruded aluminium shapes they have to get more ideas on how to build the structure.

Thanks

P.S below are some pictures of my Tigermoth (still in construction) and the process of cutting the shapes with a scrow saw.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v400/Erondiel/Hobby/DCP_5818.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v400/Erondiel/Hobby/DCP_5766.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v400/Erondiel/Hobby/DCP_5819.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v400/Erondiel/Hobby/DCP_5860.jpg

[AirX]

Nice plane, try Dave Rigotti at Hobby CNC.
http://www.hobbycnc.com/

Eric B.

[furyflyer2]

Also try http://cnczone.com tons of info and pictures of home made machine.

[uscra112]

Nice looking project there, Rodrigo.

Backlash can also be called hysteresis. The screw turns one direction, carrying the slide with it. It stops and reverses. Due to free play and flex in the nut, nut mount, and screw mount, the screw turns some amount with no slide motion. Only when all the backlash is taken up does the slide starts to move.

[hcjets]

Hello all! I'm on post #117, but I am very excited about building my own CNC machine from Cranky's plans. Today I mailed off for his Phoenix plans and I am anxiously awaiting their arrival. A few years back I started to mail off for a set of his plans, but for some reason got side tracked and did not. Now with all the fun you guys with machines have been having, I really missed out.

I currently fly turbine jets and the last jet I built was a Mick Reeves Super Reaper. During the final equipment layout, there were quite a few items I had to construct myself. Sure would have been a lot easier with a CNC router. I plan on making parts for my hobby and also try out new designs.

Question: It seems that a Dremel tool is being used by most, and some actually are using a full size or trim router. For the long run, would it be better to start out with a trim router (Portacable 7310) or stick with a Dremel? I will most likely be cutting balsa and liteply up to 1/4".

thanks,

JR Gautreaux

[crankorgan]

A Dremel MultiPro can run for hours set at half speed. The runout of the shaft is better than most routers. If you want to use a router you will also need a speed control. I built a quiet spindle out of a brand new Foredom Number 30 handpiece and a DC pancake motor. Last week I discovered it had twice the runout of the Dremel. I suggest starting with a Dremel MultiPro. It is also handy to have while building.

[hcjets]

Thanks John!

A Dremel MultiPro it is then.

JR Gautreaux

[fig8]

Has anyone tried one these these www.k2cnc.com That bed looks like a work of art. Was thinking of getting one and porting over my existing control system. can't beat that 24x14 travels!


Gregg

[furyflyer2]

They are a bullet proof design, and a great price on them too.




http://cnczone.com

[hcjets]

John (Cranky)

Did you get my mail yet? (money order that is) Can't wait to start cutting MDF for the unit. By the way, what foot print does the Phoenix build to? Like to plan out an area in my garage for it and possibly get a table or stand for it.

thanks,

JR

[crankorgan]

Please wait until you receive your plans and this is not my support conference. I have a support conference.

[andyew]

This thread took me weeks to read... hopefully i could digest all of em!

Cranky, i'm from Malaysia, so i m qualified to bother u with 2 questions (since i m not qualified to BUY ur plans :D ), hope u could hit me some hints:

- Initially i thot the "skate bearings" cater only for moving table. But i've found that, other monsters like Morph, Pipe-Dream and especially THE PHOENIX oso use this scheme! WOULDNT the gantry lift up when the force along the axis is acting on it??
(almost no clamping force to keep the gantry firmly DOWNWARD unless another bearing is rolling BELOW the pipe....rite?)

- Lastly, window channel (exclusively found in USA/Canada): how would u make/fabricate/cut the Delrin block to fit into the channel so it'll slide smoothly and could clamp the channel in all directions?
(Any cross-sectional drawing of the aluminium channel and delrin slides would be cool!)

If it's disadvantageous for u to answer em here openly (for ur US/Canada market), you could PM or email me andy_yew(at)mailcity.com

Thanks John!
Andy
ps: this very 1st post took me 2 times of Preview Post be4 Submitting... too bad my english perhaps... :)

[andyew]

Balsaman, have u built another CNC with aluminium extrusion like T-slots? Or i've confused u with somebody else..... i've been in CNCzone for months and if i remember well it should be u.....

I'm asking this because i found some "affordable" T-slots over here, they're throwing em at lower price since noone dares to use it, it's way too expensive. I'm still not sure whether to go for MDF or the T-slots. It's been 4months reading and reading...planing and planning...

Will the T-slot hold up well? How to make it rigid enough for CNC purpose (my aim is 1/2" aluminium cutting)...

[crankorgan]

Andy,
We have a thing called Gravity here in the US. I use it with all my designs.
I allow an extra bearing to be added....it is not needed. As for your second question! Re-read the beginning of this thread. The pictures are still there.

John

[andyew]

oh ic.... gravity....

[andyew]

Hey Cranky, found some pics i've forgotten i viewed weeks ago!

It's basically composed of Alu Frame-Gib Beam-Guide-Bed for the aluminium channel linear guide. But i dont see any problem for other aluminium channel found outside US... what worried u actually?

I know i have no power commenting on others' designs since i've not got my hands dirty in my cnc yet..... what's in my mind is to look for the best design for me before really going for my 1st one.... i m ambitious i think!

Thanks for reading!
Andy

[crankorgan]

Andy,
I sold plans outside the US for over a year.(Big Mistake) Every country has a different type of hardware. $30 per planset is not enough for me to take on the extra work to help people build with what they can find.
People in some countries should get off their butt and design something using materials found in their own country. Maybe it will be you! It won't be me, I did my share!!!

John

[Rodrigo C.]

Hello everyone, I have started building my CNC.

Unfortunatelly I don't have my camera right now to take some pictures, but I made some drawings i'd like to show.

I wil use some machined parts, because I have some people who volunteered to make them for me at the university :)

I am designing the parts according to the material I can find locally.

Here are some pictures of my Z guides. Feel free to comment :)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v400/Erondiel/CNC/guiaz1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v400/Erondiel/CNC/guiaz5.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v400/Erondiel/CNC/guiaz4.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v400/Erondiel/CNC/guiaz3.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v400/Erondiel/CNC/guiaz2.jpg

[Jegern]

Hi all,

Thanks to this great thread I have just started constructing my own CNC mill. So far I have completed the x-axis of what will closely resemble the 7th Sojourn by Cranky. Like him, I wanted it to be cheap and use parts that are easily obtainable. I have used steel rods for the rails, and also rollerblade bearings. Not having a car caused me to use solid wood instead of MDF, as I would have some difficulties in transporting a huge MDF piece by bus :rolleyes: I have used plastic cutting board for the adjustable rail supports and leadscrew nut. Also, the bearing on the leadscrew is enclosed in a pice of cutting board. I'm not sure what kind of plastic is used in the cutting board, but it seems to work nicely. The leadscrew is a piece of allthread.

My choice of building material may have been a mistake, though, because the MDF would probably have been much stiffer. I can always add reinforcements to make it more rigid. Also, I made the mistake of using too thin steel rods, wich will probably result in lower cutting speeds to prevent flexing of the rods. Anyway, I will probably use this machine as a learning experience and build it the "right" way next time. I think I'm already addicted to CNC :rolleyes:

Not having any stepper driver board, I haven't made the mistake of spinning any motors yet :) I must admit that I used an electric screw driver to drive the x-axis, though. And it worked fine :)

Having tried the "design everything in CAD first" approach and not being able to, or have the time to, build anything, I just started out with an idea in my head this time. CAD makes you design things that are too complicated when you don't have enough experience in building and also have limited tools to work with.

I'll keep you posted on my progress, and maybe post some pictures :)

[andyew]

Rodrigo, that carriage (Z-axis) you've designed looks nice and i have a great feeling it's easy to construct and smooth travel with rigidity it looks to have. BUT, probably Cranky can comment on its adjustability of the "skate bearings".... from what i see from his 90 degree aligned bearings (on aluminium L bracket), it not only cancels out the freeplay of the hub, it will also permit adjustability by either tuning the horizontal bearing OR the vertical bearing (Cranky has 2 bearings aligned perpendicularly, while i'll have mine 3 bearings instead.... to "hug" firm on the 2" stainless steel pipe)..... just my 2 cents....

Jergen, u r not the only 1 who has this CNC Syndrome! Also thanks for sharing ur "mistakes" throughout ur building experience, it'll do good for all beginners like me, to know the possible troubles b4 doing/wasting time. I also likes to prepare enuff before investing the time in building... well for me at least, since i dont direct access to drill press, band saw, milling, thread tap etc..... so CAD comes in handy, that's why it's called Computer Aided Design and not Computer Automatic Design...... hahah

TIll then, c ya!
Andy

[Rodrigo C.]

Andy,

Notice on the picture I attached, on the piece assembled, I made a "housing" (not sure it's spelled like that) so I can adjust the bearings on the shaft, making it possible to align them.

About the construction, it was not that easy, it was really a pain in the ass to mark all the holes in the correct position and drill them. it took me several hours doing it patiently so I could have more precision on the drilling.

The piece is really stiff, wich is what I wanted. I had seen pictures of the bearings mounted at 90 degrees, but didn't like it much and it would not work on the Y and Z axis, and I really didn't want to use Delrin as many people do. I thought I would have to do lots of machining at the university, but so far I have made everything at home. I will need to machine the Delrin nuts, and some other holes to mount the shafts. All the other stuff is being done on a table drill here at home.

So far I have almost all the guides ready, and most of the material i will need to finish the mechanical part is bought. When I finish building the mechanical part I will concentrate on motors and eletronics.

I have bought the Z and Y shafts, payed about 15 bucks for them, the surface is not hardened, but i think it will not be a problem.

I will be posting more pictures when I build other parts.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v400/Erondiel/CNC/DSC00004.jpg

[B Vial]

I am looking at building a CNC machine or two. Ideally I would like a router and a foam cutter. I think I am going to build the router first.

Has anyone here built the jgro machine (availible at CNCZone site) that is similar to cranky's machine? How was your experience? I have downloaded the plans in autocad format and have printed them out using Volo View express as my Turbo Cad LE software doesn't handle the files properly. Volo View won't tile print the plans so I don't have 1:1 plans to build from but there is enough there that is readable to get me finished I believe.

I would also like to build an open source driver for this machine and see one on the cnczone site where I got the jgro mill plans. Has anyone gone this route? How was your experience?

On the foam cutter I see most use drawer slides. Many here say that they are not good enough for a mill. What makes it good for a foam cutting CNC machine and not for a mill? I have handles some drawer slides at Lowes and Home Depot and I could not feel any slop (they were still in the package though which would not allow me to extend them and feel for slop).

Are there any freely availible foam cutting plans out there?

[HobbyCNC]

I've seen where the open source drivers on the zone that were posted were never actually built and tested! A few let the smoke out! DOH!

Dave Rigotti
www.hobbycnc.com

[furyflyer2]

I've seen where the open source drivers on the zone that were posted were never actually built and tested! A few let the smoke out! DOH!

Dave Rigotti
www.hobbycnc.com


I guess that will happen, you have to break a few eggs to make a omelet. But they have a working driver http://cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?p=46675#post46675 now.

[andyew]

B Vial, dont know if this will help.... http://gm.cnc.free.fr/en/index.html

Will build the discrete power amp driver circuit discuss there once my structure is up!

Rodrigo, ur carriage looks awesome! but it must be quite a weight! anyway, u'll tell us how's the thing really work out when it's done.....BTW, the freeplay thingy i said was just my thought only... no proof from experience... only logic thinking.

Keep posting ur progress here!
Andy

[crankorgan]

The ClownZone or CloneZone is nothing more than stolen info from other webpages, here and my plans. One guy bought my plans, redrew them and then posted them on the Zone. He changed very little. This shows me the person who runs the Zone lacks ethics.
This thread is still the top thread on the Internet! The whole CloneZone does not equal this place. People read this thread and then run back to the Zone with the info.
When someones asks a question here, a few people tell them to to go to the Zone. If you want a correct answer, you better stay here!

[furyflyer2]

The ClownZone or CloneZone is nothing more than stolen info from other webpages, here and my plans. One guy bought my plans, redrew them and then posted them on the Zone. He changed very little. This shows me the person who runs the Zone lacks ethics.
This thread is still the top thread on the Internet! The whole CloneZone does not equal this place. People read this thread and then run back to the Zone with the info.
When someones asks a question here, a few people tell them to to go to the Zone. If you want a correct answer, you better stay here!

Wow it's sounds like you're the one that lacks ethics. You're the one name calling, not very professional if you ask me, and you want people to buy your plans? The zone surpasses this ONE thread of info. You're smoking something dude if you think that this one thread is the be all of information. Truth be told you're not allowed on CNCzone, because of you're ethics. You're people should say here if they want to listen to you're one minded cranky crap.

The cnczone, has gotten NOTHING but praise for the owner and the way that he runs it, so before you start spreading LIES you better get your facts straight! Boy it's nice to see what everyone say about you is true.

[furyflyer2]

Here are some great reading on the subject-

http://cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=409&highlight=story
http://users.adelphia.net/~wjdupont/photo.htm

The truth- http://users.adelphia.net/~wjdupont/parrot_story.htm

A source for CNC plans-
http://cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?p=15583#post15583
http://cnczone.com/gallery/showgallery.php/cat/505

[uscra112]

furyflyer,
a: You're still a newbie on this thread. As you get to know Cranky you'll retract what you just said.

b: You're also sounding like a shill for CNCZone. Double-plus uncool.

c: Let's stick to the subject, shall we?

[furyflyer2]

furyflyer,
a: You're still a newbie on this thread. As you get to know Cranky you'll retract what you just said.

b: You're also sounding like a shill for CNCZone. Double-plus uncool.

c: Let's stick to the subject, shall we?

Just don't like to to Innocent people, get trashed.

[crankorgan]

He has always been a shill. Go look at his pastposts. Nothing worthwhile just suttle ads for the zone. I got tired of his nonsense so I said someting. Nobody mentions this place over on the ClownZone.

[furyflyer2]

He has always been a shill. Go look at his pastposts. Nothing worthwhile just suttle ads for the zone. I got tired of his nonsense so I said someting. Nobody mentions this place over on the ClownZone.

I thought that "This thread is still the top thread on the Internet!" I guess if the zone is not mentioning it it's not the "top thread on the Internet!" now is it. I've said my peace, NOW BACK TO THE TOPIC ON THIS ONE THREAD.

[uscra112]

Don't blame you, John.

Roderigo, that's a lovely job. Kudos!

[longhair]

furyflyer,
a: You're still a newbie on this thread. As you get to know Cranky you'll retract what you just said.

b: You're also sounding like a shill for CNCZone. Double-plus uncool.

c: Let's stick to the subject, shall we?

Now kids...play nice.....I'm one of those guys who lurk and have been for a while...so am I a newbie and don't deserve an opinion?????

Cranky...I just got done building a CNC foam cutter and designed it myself. Funny thing is my father-in-law bought plans for his and the design is almost exact except for 3 or 4 minor differences. Now I had never seen the plans before building mine, so did I steal the design...NO...it comes down to form follows function.

Personally I have gleaned a lot of info on this thread and read it quite regularly and I also surf CNC Zone. If you share your knowledge then you should be proud and happy when it becomes part of someone else’s design...then you have become a teacher and made a positive impact. If someone blatantly copies your design then you have a right to be angered,

I'll get off the soapbox and feel free to flame me if you want....I wore nomex underwear today.

[crankorgan]

I call them as I see them. Worthless posts with ads for the Zone at the bottom say it all. It is true some people don't like me. But I give have given out free help and idea for years without hawking my goods in every conference.

[furyflyer2]

I call them as I see them. Worthless posts with ads for the Zone at the bottom say it all. It is true some people don't like me. But I give have given out free help and idea for years without hawking my goods in every conference.


That's not true- you will not help one person UNLESS they buy you're plans, their are plenty of post on the zone about that. That's what you call you're inner circle on you CLOSED forums. LOL you make me laugh. BTW allot of people do not like you, why don't you wise up, it's not good for business.

So all the member (you're potential customers) are worthless with their posts? Man you are twisted..........

[Jegern]

That's not true- you will not help one person UNLESS they buy you're plans, their are plenty of post on the zone about that. That's what you call you're inner circle on you CLOSED forums. LOL you make me laugh. BTW allot of people do not like you, why don't you wise up, it's not good for business.

So all the member (you're potential customers) are worthless with their posts? Man you are twisted..........

furyflyer2: I think you are beeing unfair to Cranky. He runs a business selling plans. Don't blame him for not helping those who haven't bought his plans. Anyone who have tried running a business on the 'Net will know that you get TONS of mail regarding this and that and can-I-have-everything-for-free-please. Anyway, Cranky has helped everyone in this thread who have asked.

[crankorgan]

Fury,
All your posts have been for the ClownZone! Anything you say now is a laugh. You are only here to push the Zone. You got caught! Time for you to go back to the Zone!

John

[furyflyer2]

Fury,
All your posts have been for the ClownZone! Anything you say now is a laugh. You are only here to push the Zone. You got caught! Time for you to go back to the Zone! John


OOW yes I've been caught, woo is me. What will I ever do now? You're true colors have shown, you couldn't give me a set of you're plans, people are MUCH smarter than you and can design much better machines themselves, that the REAL reason you call CNCzone.com the clownzone, because you're not the head clown in charge. LOL

Now go Crank you're organ alittle more would ya.......

[longhair]

Can we get back on subject?????? I read all the pages of posts to learn not to see what eveyone thinks of another's views.

We had a good discussion and contributions from Andyew and RodrigoC.....Can we get bcak to the reason this thread is here.

[HobbyCNC]

That's not true- you will not help one person UNLESS they buy you're plans, their are plenty of post on the zone about that. That's what you call you're inner circle on you CLOSED forums. LOL you make me laugh. BTW allot of people do not like you, why don't you wise up, it's not good for business.

So all the member (you're potential customers) are worthless with their posts? Man you are twisted..........

Scot,
I wouldn't mention CLOSED forums. It's like calling the kettle black. Banning someone who you don't like and then censoring any posts about them is MUCH worse! "Open Source?"...Can't view it...This to me is a CLOSED forum.

Signing my real name

Dave Rigotti

[crankorgan]

If you click on FuryFlyer2 the public profile says Paul G. That's the head clown himself. No wonder he got so upset. You censor! You allow info on your website that has been ripped from other websites. You have been posting ads for your website under other names. :p Now I am finished :) :) :)

[B Vial]

Man oh Man, I did not want to stir up a hornets nest. I was looking for an open source way (except the software that is) to get down to business and build my first machine.

I do not want to pour a whole lot of money into what will be my first machine. I would rather spend that money on steppers that may be used in later machines should I desire to build another bigger/stronger machine down the road.

So please, lets get back on topic and if someone could answer my questions I would appreciate it. They are back a couple of pages now from worthless bickering.

I will recap:

Forget the FREE MDF plans availible at CNC Zone that will allow you to build a macnine from hardware stores.

Why do some hot wire CNC machines utilize drawer slides if they are so inaccurate for router machines? (I am looking at building a foam cutter hot wire machine down the road)

Are there any freely availible (open source) driver boards or power supplies availible anywhere that I can use to build from? I like the idea of being modular and can build upon. I am no electronics engineer but I have built elecronic components before like a hot wire power supply for my hand run foam cutting bow.

What are people using to support thier Mill Machines on? I was either thinking of just buying a 4 door vanity from Home Depot or Lowes and using that as a base as I do the same for my building board. I was also thinking of just making the same thing out of MDF by buying a 2nd 4 x 8 sheet of 3/4 inch and building it similarly to a 4 door vanity base.

Thanks and please lets leave politics out of the thread.

[longhair]

I found a lot of good ideas here (I read every post in this thread) when I started looking for info on a CNC router in April....you could very easily design your own from all the data here and on CNC Zone....which is exactly what I did. I used the idea of sealed roller bearings on a rail.

I have done electronics work over the years and have etched my own boards...It's a PIA. You will be hard pressed to get the board etched, find the components and put it all together for less than buying one from a supplier. I personally bought the Xylotex board and there is a Yahoo group for it where you will find a tremendous amount of tech support.

As for the CNC foamcutter..I didn't hesitate to use drawer slides in my foamcutter once I saw how tight they were. I can't perceive the run out in them and don't have a dial indicator to do a valid test. After cutting out templates on my band saw for years and cutting using them the accuracy I will gain by going CNC will outweigh the little bit of run out that a set of drawer slides may have. Again there is the CNC Foamcutters group.

As you can tell I try and get as much info from as many sources as possible and then making my own conclusions.

[furyflyer2]

If you click on FuryFlyer2 the public profile says Paul G. That's the head clown himself. No wonder he got so upset. You censor! You allow info on your website that has been ripped from other websites. You have been posting ads for your website under other names. :p Now I am finished :) :) :)

GOOD! Thank god! BTW you would'nt be calling me a clown to my face. :mad: But if you interested PM and we can meet.

[hcjets]

Man I'm ready to get started building my CNC router. Today I received the plans I ordered from John (Cranky) last week. I must say, I am impressed with the fast shipping.

I read through the plans tonight and there is a lot of detail in the drawings. I will probably read through them at least 2 or 3 more times before I start letting the saw dust fly.

Thanks again John from a satisfied customer. I am attempting to join the 1% group soon.

JR Gautreaux

[Rodrigo C.]

Hello everyone, I have a question about the anti-backlash nut. Hope people can guide me out.

I saw a image John posted here with the anti-backlash nut, but I am wondering what wall thicknes should I use. If im correct the lenght is 3x the diamenter of the threaded rod. but what wall thickness can I use or it really doesnt matter at all?


Thanks

[Jegern]

I saw a image John posted here with the anti-backlash nut, but I am wondering what wall thicknes should I use. If im correct the lenght is 3x the diamenter of the threaded rod. but what wall thickness can I use or it really doesnt matter at all?


Edit: Thought he meant the leadscrew nut, which is what I have described here.

If by anti-backlash nut you mean the one that is fastened to the carriage and driven by the leadscrew, I made mine from two pieces of plastic cutting board joined by four screws like this:
__________
|o o|
| |
| |
| |
|o o|
----------

___________
| | | |
| | | |
| |O| |
| | | |
| | | |
-----------

Top view is from the side, while bottom view is from the edge (the gap between the pieces is exaggerated, they are flat against each other really). I then tapped a hole through the block from the side for the leadscrew. The two pieces of cutting board are 4cm x 4cm x 9mm and the leadscrew is 8mm. I guess that gives a minimum wall thickness of 5mm. It seems to work OK, at least I can't feel any backlash.

I apologize for the ASCII-art... will post pictures later.

[crankorgan]

Rod,
Antibacklash nuts require bigger motors.(due to increased friction) Great results can be obtained by just using a block of Delrin two to three times the thickness of the threaded rod. (leadscrew)
What are you going to cut with the machine?

John

[Rodrigo C.]

Cranky, I will use it for cutting wood mostly, but I want to be able to work with aluminium. I haven't decided the motors yet, I'm doing it by phases and as soon as I finish the mechanical part I will decide what motor use. But I have been doing some research already, and I believe that I will be using 150oz. motors and the threaded rod will be 1/2"-12.

[crankorgan]

Rod,
If you build a machine out of aluminum to cut aluminum at a decent speed you will need to make it very stiff. Don't make the machine too big or the flex in the frame will do you in during cutting. A Delrin or Nylon drive nut will compress during heavy cutting so you might rethink your design.

John

[Rodrigo C.]

Cranky,

I see your point, about the stiffness, and I can't really tell if it will be stiff or not since this is the first time I build something like this, at least I think the way I'm designing it, it will be really stiff, but I will know for sure when I try to cut some aluminium for the first time, as I have never worked with a CNC before.

If it doesn't work good on Aluminium at good speeds, at least the lesson learnt will be worth the effort, since the main purpose I want is to work with wood, so the metal working comes as a plus.

about the Delrin nut, so if I understood what you said, I should use other material if I intend to work with heavier cutting? so should I go for some metal nuts?

I have almost all the parts, minus some key pieces to start assembling the main frame, and I'm broke!!! but next week I think ill have enough cash to buy the rest of the stuff. In the mean time I am designing it on inventor.

The dimensions are aproximatelly:

X axis 1,30m
Y axis 0,60m
Z axis 0,30m

I will use 1" shaft for the X axis, and it will have 2 suports on it's lenght to avoid bending.
The Y and Z axis will use 3/4" Shaft (already bought and payd about 15 bucks for them, they are not hardened tho).

The main frame wil be built with 2"x2" rectangular tube with 1/8" wall thickness.

all the shaft, engine, and other heavy suports will use 1/2" Thick alum.

I did a little research on bearings today, I only bought 8 the other day on a skate shop to test them. and I found some chinese bearings for about ,50 cents each, and I think I will be buying those.

I think tomorrow I will finish the design on inventor and I will post it here so it's easier to get the idea, and hopefully next week I will post real pictures of the machine being built.

Thanks for the tips so far, and sorry for my crappy english :)

[crankorgan]

Rod,
Swapping out the nut at a later date is no big deal. Trying to design a perfect first machine is impossible. Even companies that sell completed machines make changes. The tricks are: Don't build the machine too big. Keep the movement on the Z axis to under 3" Don't put the linear bearings too close together on each side of the axis to gain more cutting area.

John

[Stelio]

Finally got finished reading all 2077 posts and I have a couple of questions before I begin my journey.

Cranky,

Is the Brute the highest precision CNC from all your machines, if so that is the one I am going to order.

I would prefer bigger size, but accuracy is more important for my current project.

The other question I have is will there be any problems in cutting G10 material (glass cloth epoxy phenolic) in the .06-.09 thickness range?

Thanks in advance for your advice.

-------

As said early in the thread, building the CNC machine is the journey and cutting a piece is the destination. Well I have my destination and I now need to embark on the journey.

My plan for a succesful journey is as follows:

1. Read the whole thread and take good notes -DONE-

2. Vefiry that I can find the materials to build the machine -DONE-
I spent the afternoon yesterday running around and checking availability
MDF and gas pipe at HD (two miles away) -YES-
ball bearings at the local surplus store -YES-
Delrin (acetal) and grey pvc at the local plastics supply store -YES-
Store front aluminum at the local glass shop -YES-

3. Order plans from Cranky crankorgan.com -almost DONE-
Build CNC as per plans since this is my first machine, there will be plenty of opportunities to modify on my second machine (if I need to)

4. Order control board and stepper motors from HobbyCNC.com -not done yet-
Build board, mount stepper motors, wire everything together.

5. Get CAD program and learn it -DONE-
For now I am playing with the free one from emachineshop.com

6. Get G-code converter and learn it -not done yet-
Have not decided yet on which one, I will probably try several.

7. Get CNC driver software and learn it -not done yet-
Have not decided yet on which one, I will probably try several.

8. Calibrate CNC and do test cuts -not done yet-

I know I am missing some steps from the above list but I will refine it as I go thru it. I already have plenty of computers and power supplies, since that is my day job.

I guess for now I am a 99%er.

Here is picture of my destination. For scale reference the small holes are 3mm.

[Stelio]

oops, the picture did not show in the previous post.

Here is picture of my destination. For scale reference the small holes are 3mm.

[ger21]

4. Get CAD program and learn it -DONE-
For now I am playing with the free one from emachineshop.com

5. Get G-code converter and learn it -not done yet-
Have not decided yet on which one, I will probably try several.




You won't be able to use the emachineshop software to generate your own g-code. It uses a proprietary file format that only they can use. You might be better off spending your time learning something else.

Gerry

[Stelio]

Thanks for the suggestion Gerry.

The program does have an export to DXF feature and I have not tested it yet to see if the G-code generating programs can read it.

If it does not work then I will have to graduate to TurboCAD or something similar.

For now I am getting my feet wet and after going thru emachineshop's two tutorials I was able create my part.

To all of you "been-there-done-that", keep the advice coming!

[crankorgan]

Stelio,
Brute and 7th can all be made to cut accurately with a little tweaking. You take out the floating nut and replace it with a solid block of Delrin. I suggest cutting your first part and then going back and making improvements.
Over thinking in this hobby will do you in! Thousands of people pass through this hobby every year. The total amout of finish machines is only in the hundreds. I have helped make this hobby a little easier but it still needs more help. I was hoping a simple cheap all in one software package would have shown up by now. Check out TurboCad for $30 at you local Staples or Ebay.
John

[Stelio]

John,

Thanks for the quick reply and for being a source of inspiration to CNC hobbyists.

While the 7th has appealing dimensions, what steered me away was the quote from the website "The machine if build correctly has an overally accuracy of 1/64".

The Brute with "The overall accuracy is still around .003" is 5 times more accurate, 1/64 being .015625.

The quest for accuracy has to do with the fact that the part (shown a couple of posts back) will be assembled with an identical part and a spacer in between them and then the whole assembly has to fit tightly in a tube as shown in the cross section pictured below. Green is the part I am planning on making with the CNC machine and red is the spacer.

If you say that with carefull building the 7th can be made as accurate, then I accept the challenge and will order it.

[crankorgan]

Stelio,
People who have built the 7th have had better results than 1/64". I was trying to be realistic with that figure. I updated the 7th. It no longer uses gas pipes mounted with flanges. It now uses the four bolt centering blocks found on Phoenix and Routezilla. This allows drill rod and other types of steel rod to be used instead of gas pipe. The four bolt centering blocks were a big leap forward.

John

[Stelio]

Well for better or for worse, I droped the check in the mail this afternoon for the 7th Sojourn.

We'll see how well I do building it.

Where would I find the drill rod material?

[longhair]

I'd go to Enco..they have good stuff at a reasonable price. www,use-enco.com and requst their catalog while you're at it. I buy all sorts of stuff from them.

[crankorgan]

Stelio,
You can buy drill rod in a industrial hardware supply. Places that sell Drills-Taps and dies. They also carry quality threaded rod. It's that place your local machine shops get their supplies. You can also buy it online but because it is heavy expect a expensive shipping charge.

John

[DICKEYBIRD]

Hi John, man you're up early! I'm an early riser too, can't wait to get the 1st cup of coffee down and watch the Formula 1 race.

Stelio, TurboCAD Learning Edition is available free from http://www.al-ki.com/tcad/download.php#TurboCADLE I haven't downloaded it from this site myself but I think it's OK. LE is a full featured v4 and is a very powerfull 2D CAD program. The site I used is http://www.al-ki.com/tcad/download.php but the free download has been removed for some reason. The manuals are still available free in .pdf format from that site however.

TurboCAD is a great program! I use it for all my CNC projects and it's .dxf output works perfectly in Yeager's ACEconverter G-Code program.

Judging by your posts, you will be very successful in your journey down the CNC road.

Good luck and have fun!

ps: Enco has all kinds of drill rod pretty cheap and their shipping is reasonable. Watch out though, I ended up getting a used lathe from a friend a few months ago and am spending myself into poverty at Enco! :rolleyes:

[Stelio]

You won't be able to use the emachineshop software to generate your own g-code. It uses a proprietary file format that only they can use. You might be better off spending your time learning something else.

Gerry

Gerry,

You got me thinking, what if I can't use emachineshop (http://www.emachineshop.com/) as my CAD software?

So I downloaded AceConverter (http://www.yeagerautomation.com/ace.htm), QuickStep (http://cpwojcik.home.att.net/Qstep/Quickstep_CNCx.html), FlashcutCNC (demo version) (http://www.flashcutcnc.com/html/dow.html), and KCam 4 (http://kellyware.com/kcam/index.htm) and started testing.

1) Export to DXF from emachineshop

2) Convert DXF with AceConverter

3) Open G-code with Quickstep.
Oops, what is this weird thing displaying off the plot/cutting table?
I made two mistakes, one was that the original design was done in mm (metric) and Quickstep was assuming inches so the part was bigger.
Second mistake, the original was not drawn starting at X0 Y0 coordinates in emachineshop, it was more like X150 Y-100. So Quickstep plotted the part way off the cutting table. Once I corrected those two errors the part looked normal!

4) Open corrected G-code with FlashcutCNC.
No problems here either.

5) Open corrected G-code with KCam4.
KCam did not like the AceConverter G-code, but it can generate its own from DXF. The plotted part looks the same as the other two programs but KCam does not do as good a job in optimizing the travel between cuts.

Maybe there is a feature in KCam I have not discovered yet, but on the other hand all four software were used without any configuration changes.

So for now, the DXF export from emachineshop is usable.

[Stelio]

Screen shot from Quickstep

Purple lines are straight cuts
Yellow lines are arcs and circles
Red lines are travels
Thickness of cut lines is proportional to diameter of cutting bit

[Stelio]

Screen shot from FlashcutCNC

I like Flashcut's multi-axis views

[Stelio]

Screen shot from KCam4

Red lines are cut lines
Blue lines are travel

Without further tweaking, KCam4 produces alot more travel than Ace Converter

[crankorgan]

Stelio,
The ACE converter takes a DXF and optimizes it. Draw your DXF. Then in a new layer and color trace the DXF in the order you want it milled. Lock the trace layer and delete the rest. When KCam and other programs convert the DXF to GCode you will get an optimized GCode. I use ACE for DXF files with lots of lines. I use the trace method for other cases.
When a GCode causes a machine to spend more time moving then cutting it is called "The Traveling Salesman Syndrome" By optimizing a GCode your machine will be finished making the part sooner.

John

[grempel1]

Hi John,

I would like a brief comment on a machine that I am putting together, if you don't mind.

The machine will be used to cut FOAM plugs.

The machine will be fixed gantry with a working area of 2 ft x 3 ft.

The motors are Vexta 266 Bipolar - 166 oz in.

1) Is drill rod appropriate in this application?

2) Lead screw thoughts are ACME thread with Delrin nuts. Given the span, is 1/2 dia adequate?

3) The plan is to make the process indexable. Since maximum thickness of readily available foam around here is 4 in., is it feasible to have a useable Z axis of 4 in.?

Thanks.

Rgds,
G.R.



2)

[crankorgan]

G.R.
Are you building a CNC hotwire or a mill! If you are looking to mill 4" pieces of foam you better find the source for the extra long milling bit first. Most bits are an inch and a half long and some of that goes in the collet. Milling large sections of foam take hours and it makes a mess.

John

[Jojje]

Or u can build it in a box like this.

[crankorgan]

Jojje,
An enclosure is good to reduce noise. You should also have a vacuum nozzel at the cutting tool.

John

[Jojje]

Jojje,
An enclosure is good to reduce noise. You should also have a vacuum nozzel at the cutting tool.

John
Yes, but the main purpose was to keep all dust in one place. The nozzle is good when u mill 2D, not so useful i 3D. Do u want to look more details of how I use the bearings? It works good for me, the way I use them ;-)

[grempel1]

John,

I have a CNC Hotwire foam cutter and a Hotwire foam block cutter. This will be a mill.

The sourcing of extended bits is under way; I have been in contact with users of these bits.

Thank you.

Rgds,
G.R.

[crankorgan]

Jojje,
Even if you just hold a nozzel close it gets rid of the fine dust. MDF is hard on the tools and it produces really find dust. I got it everywhere. It takes days to settle out of the air.
I spread three drops of motor oil on my circuit boards. This gets rid of the very fine dust that comes off whem milling circuit boards.

John