Looking for CNC Mill Part I

[crankorgan]

Originally posted by Joe Petro
John, you mention that you sell a pc board for the controller?
Can you give me some info on it? Price?


Look on my website. Look at past messages here.

John

[chrisbarker]

Hi,

I answered my own question using my McMaster-Carr catalog.
They list in order of increasing coeficients of friction:
Teflon, UHMW, then HDPE.
So I think that your run of the mill cutting boards are probably HDPE or even Polypropelene.

Chris

[crankorgan]

Originally posted by chrisbarker
Ya Cranky,

What size bits would you like to design a spindle for? :)

Chris

I said we need a good Spindle assemble. As for size and cost, that is another story. Something bigger than the Sherline
for about $89 US. If you can't do it at that price then don't. Harbor Freight is killing off everybody. People buy by price. Only a few understand quality. Quality won't keep you in business
anymore!!!
You can buy a Drill Press for $79. A Spindle has less parts, so that is the price range. I was making keyring watches with my machine. Then Radio Shack came out with one for $9 that has a compass and thermometer. Looks and works better than mine. I
now own the RS model.

John

[crankorgan]

Originally posted by chrisbarker
Hi,

I answered my own question using my McMaster-Carr catalog.
They list in order of increasing coeficients of friction:
Teflon, UHMW, then HDPE.
So I think that your run of the mill cutting boards are probably HDPE or even Polypropelene.

Chris

Nylon works the best but it can grab the leadscrew if it warms up too much. Delrin taps the best. All the other stuff works also. I suggest cutting board because you can find it locally.
White UHMW seems to show up here in the road as bars. It
must be used under a truck somewhere. Very waxy looking and tough as nails. Teflon I can't locate here! Maybe Ebay? People send me free stuff all the time. I got no idea what the stuff is
UHMW, HDPE etc....

John


John

[GRUN-HERZ-JG54]

Hello Guys,

I have a question. I fly mainly 1/12 scale rc combat and build most of my planes from foam blocks, then sanded to scale proportions,can I build a homemade cnc router to accomplish this without breaking the bank?

[PanzyPoof]

GRUN-HERZ-JG54.
These Puppie Mills are for Balsa, Lite ply, flatstock. I think it's a CNC Foam Cutter you're after. And yes Treemagnet here just finished such a machine! Cost was under a couple Hundred Dollars. \

Just downloaded Master5CNC to have a look see. Any comments Group?

[balsaman]

Balsaman - those Rotozip tools are ground so the spiral pushes the material down when they cut, no? That would alleviate the lifting.

I have not been using the rotozip cutters. I find many times 1/8" is too large. I have been using 1/16" carbide endmills. The spiral lifts. Yes its a steep helical spiral but it does lift a little on plywoods.

I will post pics on the vacuum table when I get started. I got a plane to finish up first.

Eric

[balsaman]

Dennis,

I downloaded that too. I can't run it my CNC 'puter is too slow. I fellow at work is giving me his old motherboard/cpu since he just upgraded. It's a 300 mhz. Pll. When I get that I will give it a shot. TurboCNC works great, so if Master5 is not fantastic I plan on sticking with Turbo. I don't really feel like shelling out the $100.00 USD either.

Eric

[chrisbarker]

I have a question. I fly mainly 1/12 scale rc combat and build most of my planes from foam blocks, then sanded to scale proportions,can I build a homemade cnc router to accomplish this without breaking the bank?
GRUN-HERZ-JG54

I started out thinking the same thing. 3D fusalages.
It's expensive though. First you need a good 3D modeling and drawing program with the right output. Then the right CNC program to translate it into code that you can run your CNC machine on.
I'm not giving up yet though!

Chris

[chrisbarker]

These Puppie Mills are for Balsa, Lite ply, flatstock. I think it's a CNC Foam Cutter you're after.

PanseyPoof,

The foam cutters are based on a hot wire which wouldn't be able to completely do a 3D fuse. That is where 3D routing and milling can work. At least on a half section ie; no undercuts. Also there is the issue of a ball end cutter leaving its toolpath that needs to be sanded out.
It is possible.:)

Chris

[uscra112]

Chris - They probably aren't the same to a chemist, but they will be to you. You can buy real Teflon in sheets from McMasterCarr on line. http://macmaster.com. Fairly cheap, too.

There is a material specifically engineered for slide bearings called Turcite. Do a search on the Web - you'll find dozens of sellers.

Cheers !

[balsaman]

Originally posted by PanzyPoof
Ya $100.00 USD and he's a Canadian Eh?
Maybe we can talk Loonie with Him?

Let's try it first.

Eric

[PanzyPoof]

BalsaMan check you're private messages.

[PanzyPoof]

chrisbarker. ya you're correct!
Just it would take a long time to carve out the 3D fuse and you would need a long Trolly big like Phonex for a Fuse. Interesting !
I would rip out the profile out on a table saw and trim it with a Bandsaw and sand the last bit by hand ;) Quicker shure but not as :cool:

Treemagnet Got Master5 tester working I like it a lot. No expert but I think it's the Ticket for me;) We had the thing working off the RC controller for Real Flight :D

[Tree_Magnet]

balsaman i use master5 on my p1 200 its a little slow buffering but once it's buffered up it runs fine. I use it for my compact 5 lathe/mill .
Tom

[balsaman]

Tom and Dennis,

Does Master5 run your steppers smoothly? Just as fast as TurboCNC? I could try it on my P166MMX I suppose. Never even tried it. Another project for this weekend....;)

Eric

[PanzyPoof]

:D :D :D

[chrisbarker]

Do you guys have a link for Master5?

:cool:
Chris

[PanzyPoof]

http://www.artofcnc.ca/

I just Got Licenced:D
And invited Art to drop in.
Hope he's a RCer

[Tree_Magnet]

balsaman yes my p200 runs the steppers just fine however (theres allways a however) master5 loads a buffer first then runs the program and this could take a min. denised p2 300 runs master5 just fine. i like the master5's visual interface and everything is right in front of you. with turbocnc execution of the gcode is immediate on a slow machine but you have to keep jumping back and forth from page to page.
Tom

[crankorgan]

Gang,
Here is the skinny! Over a year ago I listed EZCNC on my front page. Several of the people who bought my Piker board could not get EZCNC to work. I tried it and it would jog a little and then lockup Windows. This is what other people told me it did.

Now over a year later on a Compaq 300 MHZ Win 98 Master5 is doing the same thing. I click the jog keys with the mouse and the machine jogs the preset amount. The third click
the mouse moves but Master5 stops responding. Since I did help you guys maybe you can see what I am doing wrong.

A year ago I used Win95 on a P5 Clone. All the hardware is different but I still get the same results! This is the only CNC program I have not gotten to work!


John

[chrisbarker]

Hi,

Is Linux possibly the way to go on the machine that controls your CNC?
http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.html
I don't know much about except that I like the open sourced philosophy and the fact that I have heard that Linux is rock solid.

Chris

[Tree_Magnet]

Hi Cranky mmm well my p200 runs it. i have never had a problem with jogging or locking up. i use win 98se. wish i could help you but really don't use it enough to help you. The guy that wrote is is very helpful and quick to respond. you try it again, maybe there was a problem before and it's fixed. http://www.artofcnc.ca/
i really think it might be worth looking at again

Tom

[crankorgan]

Originally posted by chrisbarker
Hi,

Is Linux possibly the way to go on the machine that controls your CNC?
http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.html
I don't know much about except that I like the open sourced philosophy and the fact that I have heard that Linux is rock solid.

Chris


Chris,
Were you replying to me? I run CNCPro under DOS. Now that is rock steady. The three top CNC programs are
CNCPro-TurboCNC and Master5/Mach1 the others are as good as dead. My problem is I have never been able to get EZCNC or Master5 to work. It is obvious I am a chowder head or My controller has a bug! It might be PIN 17 On older controllers I grounded this pin. On the PIKER Pro it is floating. I am losing my
Enable. I will isolate pin 17 and then give up until somebody comes up with a sugestion. All my limits are set including ES. There is always a trick!

John

[Tree_Magnet]

Hey john denis aka panzypoof is now using master5 on your piker board. so far so good jogging gcode all seem to be working (so far). He has a p2 3xx

Tom

[chrisbarker]

John,

I was sort of replying to your post in that you were talking about problems. I don't mean to criticize. You have a working machine and I don't.
I'm thinking about alot right now from the design of a machine to the software that runs it.
Linux has been something that I want to find out about and so my question is also general in nature.:)

Chris

[crankorgan]

Originally posted by Tree_Magnet
Hey john denis aka panzypoof is now using master5 on your piker board. so far so good jogging gcode all seem to be working (so far). He has a p2 3xx

Tom

Tom,
Something in Windows is messing the program up! It is locking up without the controller on. Rather than say what I really think, I will keep quite! I rechecked Pin 17. It is an output not an input. Master5 sometimes works for 30 seconds then it goes off to CNC heaven while I remain in Hell! I will wait and see what others find. I have all the CNC demos running except Master5. I like to be able to help others! With this program I need the help!

I was hoping everybody would use TurboCNC so people with used computer could join in! Going to more expensive programs limits the hobby.

John

[crankorgan]

Originally posted by chrisbarker
John,

I was sort of replying to your post in that you were talking about problems. I don't mean to criticize. You have a working machine and I don't.
I'm thinking about alot right now from the design of a machine to the software that runs it.
Linux has been something that I want to find out about and so my question is also general in nature.:)

Chris

Chris,
I have four computers and eight CNC machines. I only want to get Master5 working so I can help answer other people's questions. I am a DOS man....all my computers are now running Windows 98. I run my programs in MS DOS mode by rebooting Windows 98 in DOS mode. DOS and Linux are dead as far as CNC goes. I fought it for awhile, but Windows has won.
I build CNC machines for the hobbiest. I don't care what system they use but I like to keep up with what is out there.

John

[crankorgan]

Hi Gang,
Just for fun I loaded Master5 into a computer I pulled out of the garbage. It is a 300mhz Super socket 7. So what happened! Master5 runs without crashing! Conclusion, ALL Windows CNC programs are as flakey as Windows!!! Both computers have Windows 98. The one that works has Windows SE (second edition). I will try updateing the first computer to Win98SE and see what happens.

John

[PanzyPoof]

No Idea what It fixes but there is a Patch for win 98 at Master5 site.
Forwarded mail;
Hi Dennis:

Yup, if your using 98, just copy in the patch if you use a MaxNC

Thanks,
Art

[Tree_Magnet]

Actually now that you mention it John i originally had 98 and when i went to 89SE i had no problems mmmmmm but that was about 2 years ago and can't sat that i have really had any problems since going to 89SE:rolleyes:

Tom

[crankorgan]

Originally posted by Tree_Magnet
Actually now that you mention it John i originally had 98 and when i went to 89SE i had no problems mmmmmm but that was about 2 years ago and can't sat that i have really had any problems since going to 89SE:rolleyes:

Tom

Tom,
98SE did not fix the problem, so It's hardware related. Info on the website says the program has problem with some video cards. A friend of mine gave me the Compaq with monitor and all. I have all the Demos setup on it to run my Piker. The computer I pulled out of the garbage two weeks ago runs Master5 smoothly. The website says that motherboards with built in video may have problem. My all in ones are the only ones that work! Now at least I can answer questions as they come up. I better find a P3 soon!

John


John

[crankorgan]

Hi,
I added a message board to my website. It is called Hardware Store CNC. Feel free to leave questions that are off topic here, there. Circuitboard milling and other things.



http://pub75.ezboard.com/bhardwarestorecnc


John

[senna12625]

Cranky,

Art Fenerty is the creator of Master5 but has gone onto to develop another Windows based CNC program called Mach1. You've probably seen this program advertised if you've been to Art's web site lately. He moderates a Yahoo User Group called Master5 of all things... but it's mostly now about the development and debugging of his new more powerful Mach1 program. He is however very active within the group and answers ALL posts! Problems with Master5 or Mach1 get almost immediate attention.

Give it a try next time you encounter a problem with Master5... here's the address...

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Master5/

Hey Guys... I'm still lurking in the background although the exterior siding on the new house takes priority! I've got till early summer to finish this place. The BRUTE sits idle for the moment...

Congratulations Panzypoof on completing the 7th Sojourn!!! It looks terrific and I go along with all of those that like that granite stone appearance!!! It's a great looking machine & a nice looking avatar!!!

Senna

[crankorgan]

Originally posted by senna12625
Cranky,

Art Fenerty is the creator of Master5 but has gone onto to develop another Windows based CNC program called Mach1. You've probably seen this program advertised if you've been to Art's web site lately. He moderates a Yahoo User Group called Master5 of all things... but it's mostly now about the development and debugging of his new more powerful Mach1 program. He is however very active within the group and answers ALL posts! Problems with Master5 or Mach1 get almost immediate attention.

Give it a try next time you encounter a problem with Master5... here's the address...

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Master5/

Senna

Senna,
Where did you think I got the program from? I got Master5 working on 2 of my 4 computers. All four are 300 mhz
machines!!!!!

John

[senna12625]

------------------------
Senna,
Where did you think I got the program from?
------------------------

Cranky,

I did assume you got the program from Art's site... but I didn't know if you knew about Art's User Group. I've watched the development of Mach1 from it's Master5 beginnings and Art REALLY does support BOTH his programs. The Master5 User Group is THE resource if you have any further problems... software OR hardware related. Just trying to help...

Senna

[Joe Petro]

Where are all the $5.00-$10.00 stepper motors?
I have been searching for hours...

I have the plans.
I have the MDF.
I have the hardware.
I have the software.
I am learning CAD.
I ordered plastic (Delrin).

Now, all I need is time, and some frikkin' stepper motors!

:mad:

John,
How much for the controller PCB?

Joe Petro

[crankorgan]

Originally posted by Joe Petro
Where are all the $5.00-$10.00 stepper motors?
I have been searching for hours...


Ebay!!!!! There was a set of three Vexta motors for $20
plus shipping just yesterday. A company called DEXIS puts them up three at a time. Just a quick note! People who gather all the parts first never finish the machine!!! You could have been cutting parts instead of searching for motors. Please prove me wrong.


John

[balsaman]

Joe,

I bought my 100 oz. steppers from www.stepperworld.com I think they were $20.00 each. You need to email him for prices.

John has his prices on his web page under "Plans"

Eric

[crankorgan]

Senna,
I have installed over 25 program CNC. none of them were as flakey as Master5. All my machines are quality 300mhz machines. It only ran on two of the four! That was only JOGGING
the motors back and forth. For all the bragging about Master5 going on, I should have seen it work on three of the four computers. Maybe I need a 1ghz or better computer?

John

[PanzyPoof]

OK latest Idea!
Got a 1/2" piece of lexan left big as the trolly bed. So I would route it out using the CNC machine of course. Sections to allow magnets to be epoxied with in and threw out the upper Lexan bed!
Then you come along with top magnets to hold down parts in place ;) This will give me twice the holding force.
Hmmm just wondering about magnet alignment forces with so many magnets = maham:confused:

[chrisbarker]

Hmmm just wondering about magnet alignment forces with so many magnets = maham
PansyPoof

PansyPoof,

Most of the time your magnets are oriented with the poles going thru the largest face. In other words N is on one side and S is on the opposite side.
Hold them under a compass and spin them around until you can see which they are aligned.

http://www.mpi.it/en/magnets_tipi.htm

Chris

[crankorgan]

Originally posted by PanzyPoof
OK latest Idea!
Got a 1/2" piece of lexan left big as the trolly bed. So I would route it out using the CNC machine of course. Sections to allow magnets to be epoxied with in and threw out the upper Lexan bed!
Then you come along with top magnets to hold down parts in place ;) This will give me twice the holding force.
Hmmm just wondering about magnet alignment forces with so many magnets = maham:confused:

The Radio Shack ones will align themselves in an instant. Did you ever wonder what pulls them together and what pushes them apart? Remember in school they showed diagrams of tiny magnets in the big one....and the lines of force. I did a search of the internet and found the scientists are still trying to understand how the work. It's rates right up there with gravity! I have collected magnets for years.
You can glue a nonslip strip to the magnet or how about some spikes so they grip the wood?

John

John

[balsaman]

Hmm that may work Dennis, let us know! As far as the non slip material or spikes, they may interfere with the cutter.

Dennis, I would also drill some holes in the lexan and tap them for screws as some materials will move around just under magnet power. I am thinking the plywoods etc. Remember that it's easy to slide magnets off each other even when they are imposible to pull directly apart. The cutter would be putting the sliding force on the magnets.

I made some lite ply washers of differing shapes/sizes so I can clamp my wood in the drilled holes no matter where it is on the table. I have a hole every inch on the table. The material doesn't move unless I don't put enough clamps. I still worry about it moving so sometimes I hold it down while it's cutting. I hate wasting a bit of precious airplane wood! If the wood moves it's all over!

Another fellow I know uses 2 sided tape to hold his lite ply down for cutting. (commercial cnc router)

Eric

[PanzyPoof]

OK big OPPS!
Doing two thing at once is not always smart:(
I fired up the CNC and in one hand I was shaking a can of paint. Start the cnc, & on it's path... OK go I'm off to paint Flames on the Harley Gas Tank. Luckly in 2min I quickly finished and came back to check;)
Seems the tool dived right down from the start and the Tool nut was in contact with the Balsa. Indian campfire 101 here.
No damage Wife was in bed and I guickly vented the place.
So flames only on the Tank this Time:eek:

[chrisbarker]

PP,

Is it lucky that you put the foam on your table or was that the cause of it?
Beeeee careful.
:D
Chris

[djmrozinski]

There has been a lot of discussion about mills and routers that can cut wing formers, pcb, and basicly flat parts. What are the possibilities of building a machine that could cut 3D parts like a fuselage plug. I am sure there must be some limiting factors like the realistic length of a small cutting tool that could reach all sides of a part, or would you mill one side and then turn the part 180 degrees to get the other side. I need someone smart / more informed than me to work out the details.

Would seem that a machine like cranky's brute would be a good starting point. What do you all think.

Dave Mrozinski

[Tree_Magnet]

Dave all of these routers will cut 3D if you write the g-code for it. g-code can easly be done using camworks for solid works or mastercam. art cam pro is an easy way to change a 2d photograph into a 3d picture and make cool looking lithographs. now if you have the $ to buy these program great if not :D start surfing the web and search if you know what i mean

[crankorgan]

Originally posted by djmrozinski
There has been a lot of discussion about mills and routers that can cut wing formers, pcb, and basicly flat parts. What are the possibilities of building a machine that could cut 3D parts like a fuselage plug. I am sure there must be some limiting factors like the realistic length of a small cutting tool that could reach all sides of a part, or would you mill one side and then turn the part 180 degrees to get the other side. I need someone smart / more informed than me to work out the details.

Would seem that a machine like cranky's brute would be a good starting point. What do you all think.

Dave Mrozinski

Dave,
In order to do large 3D items, you need $800 of software
and a faster machine. All my machines can do 3D on a small scale.

If you precut the BLANK then it is possible! But to have a 1/8" bit cut away all the unwanted material, is like watching grass grow.

I thought it would be fun to have one of my machines cut out two sides out of 3/4" MDF to make a body for a plane. That seems doable!

John

[crankorgan]

Originally posted by PanzyPoof
Seems the tool dived right down from the start and the Tool nut was in contact with the Balsa. Indian campfire 101 here.
No damage Wife was in bed and I guickly vented the place.
So flames only on the Tank this Time:eek:

PanzyPoof,
If you don't know what happened.

1.Check the LEADSCREW for dirt and lightly oil.

2.Check you GCODE add some feedrates so the machine stays
at the proper feedrate.

3. Always reset the machine before sending it out.


P.S. You entered the CRASH club with the rest of use!



John

[PanzyPoof]

I goofed and set the tool depth too low:(
Take it as a Good WARNING to all here, Don't wander TOO FAR!!!! while tool is operating:)
No Damage but my trolly has a nice scar to remind me :rolleyes:

[DICKEYBIRD]

WARNING #2: Don't invite your buddies over to your workshop on a Friday night with 6 packs in hand to demonstrate your wonderful new machine. Or, if you do, demonstrate FIRST, then break out the brewskis! (Don't ask!):(

[crankorgan]

[i]
No Damage but my trolly has a nice scar to remind me :rolleyes: [/B]

Panzypoof,
I reset the depth on a GCode for a circuit board. I wanted all the starter holes in the pads to be a little deaper. The
program redid all the depths correctly except for three holes. I was in the bathroom when the three holes were being drilled. The bathroom is over the machine in the basement. Suddenly I
was running half naked down a flight of stairs! The Dremel put the Bit right threw the board and into the bed. The bit survived
to finsh the board.
I still wonder away on a GCodes I am sure of. No matter how fast the machine, it still gets boring if you have something else better to do.



John

[balsaman]

Ahhhh,

Welcome to the club! That makes me feel better. ;)

I guess if you cnc, just like RC, you will crash.

Now let's be careful out there. :p

Eric

[crankorgan]

Originally posted by balsaman
Ahhhh,

Welcome to the club! That makes me feel better. ;)

I guess if you cnc, just like RC, you will crash.

Now let's be careful out there. :p

Eric

Eric,
I know someone who put a $200 bit into a Bridgeport, set it home right into a clamp! The only way to prevent crashes is to use a GCode plotter. If you set KCam to the same settings as your mill, you can make travel lines blue and cuts red. Cuts to deep or to shallow show up another color. It also shows where on the table it is going to cut. You could also put a piece of spring wire in the mill and do an air cut.

John

[Joe Petro]

[i]Originally posted by crankorgan Just a quick note! People who gather all the parts first never finish the machine!!! You could have been cutting parts instead of searching for motors. Please prove me wrong.



John [/B]

John,
I understand what you are saying, but I like to get as much stuff as possible before I start a project.
I work a lot, and when I get a block of time, I don't want to spend it a Home DeePoe. I'd rather build as much as possible in the time I have.

Joe Petro

My new goal in life is to prove Cranky wrong:)

[crankorgan]

Originally posted by Joe Petro

My new goal in life is to prove Cranky wrong:)

Joe,
My Goal in life is to educate,inspire and motivate anyway possible! (evil laugh) Seems to be working!

John

[PanzyPoof]

For a Vacume table would this pump do the job ?? See a thread over http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=87656
Or is a Small Shop Vac better?
Any Designs
yet
:confused:

[balsaman]

Dennis,

I have heard of fellows using this type of vacuum pump for a vacuum table. Here is the trick: Don't drill any holes in your MDF! the vacuum sucks right thru it the MDF pores! I have not seen or tried it but have heard this is how it's done. These pumps are somewhat low volume/high vacuum. Uncovered holes in the MDF make it loose its grip on the covered holes (material).

With a shop vac, there is ton's of volume, so the uncovered holes don't affect it as much.

I would suppose you should use 1/2" MDF for the top, and perhaps a non porous material for the rest of the vacuum "box" (ply?). Also, some supports inside the box to keep it from buckling in.

If you try it, let us know!

Eric

[crankorgan]

Originally posted by PanzyPoof
For a Vacume table would this pump do the job ?? See a thread over http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=87656
Or is a Small Shop Vac better?
Any Designs
yet
:confused:

I if you use a shop vac you must make sure some air goes through to cool the motor. When you restrict the air on a vacuum cleaner the motor runs faster and it draws less current BUT and I mean a big BUT, no air gets past the motor to keep it cool. You can KILL a vacuum cleaner buy using it to pick up spackle dust or ashes from a fireplace. Both clog the pores of the vacuum bag. The bag may seem empty but the air through the motor is stopped.
Other kinds of industrial vacuum pumps are designed to remove air without overheating. Some go as high as 30 iches of mercury. (I think that is the amount) This kind has more suction but less volume. If the balsa is not air tight forget it.
A vacuum cleaner will hold the part down, but you sill might need side to side clamps.

John

[PanzyPoof]

So kinda looking at this Right?
so route out the centre section of say my
sheet of lexan 1/2"X9"x13" leaving 1/8" wall for top. drill say 1/8 holes threw this top all over. Add a port to attach a flex hose to and
jam it in the vac and tape the gap between the two hoses. Clamp the Lexan bed to the trolly bed . mount the piece to cut, Elect tape up any free holes(optional) and
fire it all up. And hope the vacume don't over heat:eek:
Hmmm? That's what I'm thinking ?
Still gonna give the magnet table a go first:rolleyes:

[crankorgan]

[i]
fire it all up. And hope the vacume don't over heat:eek:
Hmmm? That's what I'm thinking ?
Still gonna give the magnet table a go first:rolleyes: [/B]

Try running the machine and the vacuum. See if you can stand the noise. I got this nightmare vision. If you use magnets
on the sides of the board, the board stays still. Let the magnets hit the metal 100% But the ones on the Balsa might be strong enough to be pulled into the bit, if it comes too close.


John

[PanzyPoof]

OK Magnet Idea could get ugly!
So this is my next option.
A simple screw down clamp table .
So any One able to wip UP a file to Pepper this 9X13 sheet with 1/2" Grid spacing:rolleyes: Just start holes will do.
I'll drill press them and Ta'em on a rainy Day.
Foam Tape can be placed under Wood stock to clear bit bite.

[chrisbarker]

PansyPoof,

I like the nylon bolt idea.:D
If you do use the MDF as a vacuum base tape the edges with vinyl tape for a good seal.

John,

I was at Home Depot the other day and I saw that they had 3/4" Birch plywood with 11 ply's (7 is normal)in 2' x 4' pieces. Just right for your buddies car.:) I was looking at the MDF also. They only had it in 4' x 8' sheets. The 2 x 4 sheets were particle board and not MDF. The Birch plywood though is about 3 times more expensive.
I have decided that I am going to build my machine as stiff as I can make it using the Birch ply. I am also going to machine dovetail slides for the Y and Z axes. They will slide on Formica laminate and this slippery plastic that I bought at the surplus hardware store.

Chris

[uscra112]

There's a super-cheap shop vac that Home Despot sells, yellow plastic bowl with a black top - I think they call it a Hornet or something. Sells for about $20.00 American. I've used one of these on my vacuum-bagging table for a couple of years. Anyway, I've repeatedly left it on the vac table for 12 hours at a time, airflow totally stalled, with no ill effects. And if it does die, throw it out and buy a new one. Main drawback is that it's noisy.

Occurs to me that just laying a sheet of very thin plastic (like, sandwich wrap) over the parts, then turning on the vacuum, might provide the air seal to hold the balsa down. Then cut right thru the plastic.

[crankorgan]

[i]Anyway, I've repeatedly left it on the vac table for 12 hours at a time, airflow totally stalled, with no ill effects. And if it does die, throw it out and buy a new one. Main drawback is that it's noisy. [/B]

There is a vacuum motor called a bypass. The vacuum fan section is separate from the motor. The motor has it's own
cooling fan. But for the most part shop vacs are running at their max and they are only designed for intermittent use. Never use your wife's vacuum cleaner! Always use a shop vac!

John

[uscra112]

Whatever. You're right about the Missus' domestic vacs. I know my old Electrolux runs the vacuum air thru the motor to cool it. As I say though, this cheapo I bought survives quite well, and it's so cheap it's virtually disposable if it fails. (It came to me - it's called a Stinger.) :)

[DICKEYBIRD]

Ditto the cheap shopvacs....mine's been working 3 yrs. with only a lube job on the bushings when they started squawling. The vaccuum and router combination is NOISY!

As far as sealing the uncovered holes:

1) I try to delay cutting parts for a project until all parts are drawn. I glue together 3" or 4" wide sheets to make 12"x12" blanks, cram as many parts onto my "virtual work table" template drawn in CAD and tape 2 or even 3 blanks together with little pieces of 2 sided tape so that duplicate parts can be made on each run. The 12"x12" blank covers all 576 vacuum holes and it would take and act of congress to budge it!

2) If I'm cutting a single 3" or 4" wide sheet, I cover the open holes with a sheet of thin cardstock. I keep a box of 1" wide strips of the card stock in varying lengths to block the holes when I'm cutting odd shaped stock. Some times I cut a part on the diagonal when I need the longest cut possible and that takes some odd sized cuts of the card stock. I keep a shallow box with the various pieces of card stock slid under my machine for easy access.

3) If I'm cutting ply I clamp the sheet down with 10-32 nylon screws and wood clamping plates. About half of my 1/8" vacuum holes are tapped 10-32. I got tired of tapping, even with a cordless drill with a tap chucked in it.:)

[SteveW]

Ok Guys I'm hooked. I am going to build a CNC router but need a bit of advise, If I want to cut up to 6mm - 1/4" Lite ply and 12.5mm - 1/2" Balsa What Spec will I need for the Steppers and Router?
I intend to get the driver board and steppers at the same time From The USA (I'm in the UK).
I have searched E-Bay UK for Steppers to no avail. There does seem to be a plentifull supply of cheap 800w Plunge Routers. Any help would be great also is there any other people in the UK who have or are buildng machines?

Steve

[balsaman]

I don't see why the 60 oz steppers coupled with 1/4-20 rod wouldn't do that. Not sure how the dremel likes 1/4" plywood at 6" per minute... A rotozip would be no problem, but more expensive, also noisier.:D

I think John tried 1/4" ply at 6" with a dremel. Perhaps he will chime in.

Eric

[balsaman]

Dennis,

I can make that file for you. Your drill touch the board z = 0"? You want the holes every 1/2"? Let me know. It would only take me a couple minutes.

Eric

[crankorgan]

[i]
I think John tried 1/4" ply at 6" with a dremel. Perhaps he will chime in.

Eric [/B]

Ding! Ding! Yes you can cut 1/4" high grade plywood with a 1/16" bit one pass at 6" per minute. Faster speed would require a larger router mounted in ROUTEZILLA!

[balsaman]

Woohooo, you're a building machine!

Eric

:D

[crankorgan]

Originally posted by balsaman
Woohooo, you're a building machine!

Eric

:D

This is like number 20 or 21. People want to cut Plywood. There is only one way to do that quicker.....more power! Designing the Z axis was hard to do without using aluminum channel again. The X and Y axis I have designs for. I am not rushing this machine. A few hours a day.


John

[PanzyPoof]

Thanks for the offer Eric but it won't be necessary. Then again it would be CNC Kool
Up to you:)

So I'm gonna do my cut table from MDF Cheepest material, cut threw is no problem
It'll be a little longer then Home so I can get one side/row of clamps on o/o edge.
And will use the Nylon bolts and wing nuts system!
These rows will be Spaced to accomidate the standard sizes of stock Balsa. Grain either direction.
MDF 10/24 taps nicely fast as ya can work a drill switch. And it's cheep.
Notice the torque tension on the screw
Ok ya the Z boom clears the screws when trolly passes under during full travel.
Now to try and not crash into the bolts .
And even that would only be a embarasement at best.;)

[PanzyPoof]

ROUTEZILLA!
Ah man You gotta do a spot on Tool Time after this.:cool: :cool:
Are you Pretty enough for TV:eek:

[crankorgan]

Originally posted by PanzyPoof
ROUTEZILLA!
Ah man You gotta do a spot on Tool Time after this.:cool: :cool:
Are you Pretty enough for TV:eek:

Hi,
I can just imagine the Emails that would cause. I am still deciding which way to go with the machine. I am trying to use the leftover parts I have from other adventures.


John

[balsaman]

Dennis,

I made your drill job for you. I made it half inch squares. Drill goes to a depth of 0, and then releases to 1" for traveling. It's 13" along the y axis, 9" along the x axis. Let me know if that's correct for your machine. If I have the x and y axis wrong, I will fix before sending it. Also your email addy please. Once I send it to you, be sure to check it in kcam before cutting, to be sure it fits your machine. The first hole starts at 0,0, then goes out from there.

Eric

[PanzyPoof]

Eric:) real Nice of ya. 7motel@interlog.com
1" plunge would work will check it out and run it on my Board. There's lots of room for more Holes. And taping them is a Snap.
I'm shue it will come in Handy for other uses also. And a Grid cut line patter could be Handy too .
I was bussy doing the same for the evening
Putting a Cut Table together.
I build it for the Wing nut system and laid it out for 3" 4" and 6" width balsa sheets!
Grain both directions.

[balsaman]

Home is 0,0? Also y is the longer axis?

Let me know. I want to send the right file.


Eric

[PanzyPoof]

Correct!

[crankorgan]

PanzyPoof,
What Jogging speed are you getting with the Piker and what speed are you cutting at.

John

[balsaman]

Hmmm,

My first attempt at a vacuum table brings so-so results. I sealed off around my perferated, raised clamp table, then made a vacuum attachment off on one side. I am using the house central vac, so noise is no problem. Here are my observations:

1, The vacuum is strongest closer to where the attachment is. There are 2 supports running under my clamp table, splitting the area under my table into 3 compartments. I cut slots thru the supports to allow the vacuum to access the three areas. I think I get too much loss thru the slots resulting in loss of "clamp" vacuum in the "compatrments" next to the area the vacuum hose is attaced to.

2, My table is too large. The vacuum spread over the 12 x 24 area results in an acumulation of leaks. Better sealing (I did none other than closing off open areas with wood) would help here. Perhaps silicone sealant etc. I hesitate to do this as disassembly after would be dificult (perhaps I will use duct tape to test this). I had to use cardboard to close off all the holes I am not using, in order to make the vacuum hold the part I was cutting. I think it would work great on a smaller table, such as the 7th sojourn. Most of the time I cut a 4x24 slab of balsa. Its a pain to cover all the extra holes(most of the table). Perhaps I need a bunch of precut cardboard bits to select from depending on what material I am cutting.

3, It will be handiest for large jobs, like when I cut 12x24 lite ply. It would keep the material down on the table. I would have to suppliment the vacuum with clamps. With balsa I may be able to get away with no clamps.

I will experiment a bit further, to determine if it's worth while for my machine.

Cheers!

Eric

[DICKEYBIRD]

Eric it sounds like you either have too much loss due to leakage or your central vac doesn't have enough vacuum. I run mine from an el cheapo shop vac and with the extra holes blocked, you cannot budge the work! I have to shut it down to move the work even the slightest amount. The cardstock pieces are the best method of plugging the holes.

[balsaman]

Well,

The vacuum is on the back burner for now. I have planes to cut! Today I cut my Mig3. I love this machine. I am learning about cut speeds vs. tool diameter. I have found that larger diameter tool cuts nicer. I will use a 1/8" cutter whenever posible from now on. I crank up the router and crankup the feed rate. The result is just a fuzz to sand off. I guy in another discussion group said he cuts balsa in two passes at 35 inches a minute. I tried 1 pass at 30, and the cut quality is just as good as the slower speed. The router has to be cranked up. I ran at almost full out. It's noisy but for less time.

I also quit glueing balsa together to make larger sheets. I have found that smaller sheets clamped close together makes for more support. I now put 3 sheets of 4x24 balsa on the table. My 10-24 nylon bolts hold it down with just the heads. No clamps. A 4" sheet of balsa is actually about 3 7/8". Just enough room for the bolts between the sheets.

I also tried pocketing. I cut half way thru the balsa sides where the formers go. The formers will sit in the "pockets". I had been using "tab and slot" on my designs. I will see how this works out.

Eric

[Oski]

I'm up to page 30 on this thread. Have decided to build Cranky's 7th Sojourn. While waiting on plans am assembling materials. Local glass shop here in Lake City, Fl has store front cut offs. They belive what I am looking for is the jambs or headers. Is that correct? They also want to know what size. Can anyone give me the dimension size I will need? Thank you in advance. BTW, I am very impressed by all your abilities.

[DICKEYBIRD]

Originally posted by balsaman
I also tried pocketing. I cut half way thru the balsa sides where the formers go. The formers will sit in the "pockets". I had been using "tab and slot" on my designs. I will see how this works out.
Eric,

How did the pockets for the formers work out? Are you using this method where the fuse sides bend inward aft of the wing? I was worried that the side would crack right at the edge of the groove and you would have to increase the stock size on the sides to compensate and thereby increase weight.

[balsaman]

It worked great! It's not where the fuse bends heavily. Just at the rear turtledeck formers. You can't use the tab and slot method at heavy fuselage curved areas for the same reason, the weakened area may break, and the bend doesn't end up uniform. Here is a picture. you can see where the formers are sitting in the pocketed slots. The turtle deck sheeting with be 1/16" balsa, so that workes out perfectly!


You can also see the seams in the balsa. I was using up my odd ends. You see my table is 24", my balsa stock was all 36" long. I have all these 12" pieces left from my last plane. I glued them end to end to make 24" lengths. The seams are behind the wing so it should stay together. In the future it's all 48" lenghts of balsa from now on!

Eric

[DICKEYBIRD]

Sounds great! It is so cool to dream up stuff, draw it PRECISELY with a tight fit, cut it out, then have the parts come out with a fit so tight they squeek!

I really like your fuse sides and top with the angle cuts to strengthen the glue joint. When I 1st got mine up and running, my best 'ol flyin' bud (who is a computer luddite) says to me: "If you get that monstrosity to actually cut out a rib, I'll tell everyone: "You da man!" So I HAD to do something cool. I decided that I needed to cut a BIG rib out of scrap wood. Since my machine will only cut 12" long, I drew up a 32" NACA2415, drew in 2, 8 section dovetail joints and cut it out in 3 pieces that fit together like a glove. Once the glue was dry, I engraved "You da MAN" on it and attached it to the side of my machine. I even went so far as to make a CNC cut plywood 3 gear train with rack & pinion to uncover the lettering as you turned the 1st gear. He just about lost it when I finally showed it to him!:D

[balsaman]

Hi,

I saw that on the side of your machine in the pic you posted way back! I wondered what that was! I am very impressed by your machine. And you made it in the early days, before the "information highway" had took off! I could not have done mine without the wealth of information found here on the internet.

I have seen MDF clocks made on CNC routers. The one I saw had all the gears and everything made from MDF. The only part not made of wood was the full pop cans for the weights! I would love to get my hands on those dxf drawings! maybe they are out there.....I should go look.

Eric

[balsaman]

Here is just one...this one looks to be laser cut.

Eric

[PanzyPoof]

Whow a wooden clock. Kinda big but soo kool. Ya its gotta be laser it's all burnt!
The tool would have to be long also. Routing would give a nicer look .
Balsaman you like the 1/8" bits now eh ?
Large selection in that size.
OK I have to go cut TreeMagnets PBY-2 Fuse bulkheads now!... gotta pay my dues.

Oski it's the comercial store frount alum channel take along a picture . 4-5 ft piece is plenty. Sorry the # you'll have to see the plans. Can't be giving all the info out here.

[Oski]

Panzpoof...I have pictures of the stock off the thread, but the salesman said there was different widths. I know that there are some with a large high hump in middle, which is not to be used. I'm not trying to get a freebie off this thread. I always pay my way.
Am up to page 59. Saw the Phoenix on page 56. Like that better, but Cranky says on his Web to not bother him with EMails. So, i don't know if those plans a ready or not.
BTW, I purchased balsaman's motor mounts. That was before I saw this thread.

[Oski]

Found the info on Phoenix under "from the ashes of scrappy!" Thanks anyway.

[balsaman]

Hey, I hope you liked the mounts. You will be making more soon! John's Scrappy design is scrap, but the pheonix took it's place. I imagine he will pipe in here soon.

Eric

[Oski]

Thanks Eric. The mounts are excellent! I wanted the demension of the store aluminum so I could pick some up while in town. I guess I'll have to wait 'til I receive the plans.
New question. Regards stepper motors. Called the Sayal Co. Woman who answered phone couldn't help me. So I went to their Web site. They have 4260 on hand. But no price. According to the thread you bought for $5.00, but now up to $15.00. Went to EBay as recomended by Cranky. Now comes the question...there are so many on there with a wide swing in prices..what to buy. Also, there is one ad with a motor and controller for each motor. Do I need a separate controller for each motor as well as Cranky's board? As you can see, am old novice in this area and swimming in new waters.

[Oski]

Also ref motors. Some have wire harness and some don't (in pictures). Is this an issue, or does one expect harness with motor?

[crankorgan]

Originally posted by balsaman
Here is just one...this one looks to be laser cut.

Eric


check out

http://www.bbprototypes.com/news.htm




John

[PanzyPoof]

Oski ya for some reason after this thread started thereabouts the price did jump to $15 from $5CDN They had many cases and then there was only a few @ the new price,Hmm?
But still it's a good price when you figure the Exchange rate. And the motors seem to operate fine , they just get a little warm. never hot. Have yet to miss a step due to the motor. It's a good one for this machine.

[balsaman]

Oski,

You need 6 wire or 8 wire motors. The connector doesn't matter, I cut mine off.

You only need the Piker board, a power supply, dropping resistors, turboCNC software or similar, and a cable from your computer to run the steppers. No other boards are required.

Sorry off topic for model airplanes:

I found two sites with free plans for wooden clocks for download.

http://www3.sympatico.ca/aktech/

http://www.woodenclocks.co.uk/

Eric