Converting the $38 "High Wind" to full RC

[Shaun Hendricks]

The "High Wind" was acquired on ebay for 99 cents plus $35 shipping and handling and some California sales tax. Making it about $38. I didn't know what to expect until it arrived. Kmot converted similar 'toys' so here I am giving my stab at it.

The stock performance of the toy can be seen here:

http://www.hobbytron.com/movies/highwind.wmv

The actual boat and seller's auction are here:

http://cgi.ebay.com/30-HIGH-WIND-RADIO-CONTROLLED-RTR-RC-RACING-BOAT-HWC7_W0QQitemZ290072615301QQihZ019QQcategoryZ2564Q QcmdZViewItem

From all that, I must say I was surprised what arrived...

http://static.rcgroups.com/forums/attachments/4/3/6/4/6/a1139323-45-AllinBox.jpg

It came well boxed and protected. It arrived the day after payment was taken for it. I guess that's cause I live in California where the dealer is.

[Shaun Hendricks]

So, after opening the box came a VERY pleasant surprise. This was a MUCH higher quality model than I was expecting. Sure enough, its Volvo Penta lineage is visible but with the 'stealth fighter' cockpit styling it's a bit different from that more famous boat.

The plastic is definitely styrene as I discovered later. That doesn't mean it wasn't a bang up job of building and designing. You also get a lot for your $38 US dollars. If this was just a toy for your kid, then I'd say leave it alone and head to the lake! It has everything you need to start right in the box. You can charge the battery in your car on the way to the pond!

http://static.rcgroups.com/forums/attachments/4/3/6/4/6/a1139324-212-AllOutofBox.jpg

The decals are cheesey and not well applied (bubbled and such) but what do you expect from someone that probably got paid a dollar to assemble the thing.

[Shaun Hendricks]

The stock performance is a little anemic, but remember, that's only 7.2 volts pushing this large (29½") boat that is made of styrene. The vector steering is interesting. You can hear the motors engage and disengage in the video. Top speed is probably around 13-15mph.

This was not a poorly designed model. The stuffing tubes are made perfectly set up for the surface piercing props on the model. They cheated in very few places. The exit points of the stuffing tubes appear to have been sealed with hot melt glue. Creative and probably functional, if not a bit heavy. Take a look:

http://static.rcgroups.com/forums/attachments/4/3/6/4/6/a1139329-13-InternalStern2.jpg

Those appear to be real brass bushings in the head end of the tube and molded alignment points with E-Clips holding the shafts pressure during reverse. The tubes appear to be brass with stainless steel shafts.

Interesting is the 'rudder' which isn't. It appears to be a trim tab that can correct for any prop walk or boat tendency. I suppose you could use it to make the boat turn in a circle if you lose signal. Call it a poor-man's fail-safe. Here's the business end which shows it clearly on the outside of the hull.

http://static.rcgroups.com/forums/attachments/4/3/6/4/6/a1139330-25-KeelStern.jpg

You aren't going to get a rooster tail with that deck in the way, but before considering tossing it, it has 4 preset mount points if you are going to attach a REAL hobby grade rudder! Here's another shot of the props.

http://static.rcgroups.com/forums/attachments/4/3/6/4/6/a1139333-160-Sternb4clean.jpg

Yes, those are 'drive dog' props you are seeing. I was a bit shocked by that level of quality. Notice the o-ring seals against the bushings. Also, the struts are plastic but it appears to be nylon... fairly tough stuff but a bit flexible.

[Shaun Hendricks]

Step 1 in the conversion was to remove the decals and clean up the boat. The decals cover the screws which seem to hold the decks together. At this point, it appears that you can remove the top deck from the bottom one. The 'pinstripe' around the joint of the decks is just bad quality pinstripe tape, it left most of the black behind when I pulled the tape strip. Par for the course, the decals left most of the glue behind as well! :censored:

http://static.rcgroups.com/forums/attachments/4/3/6/4/6/a1139332-238-StarFullNoDecNoCln.jpg
Decals came off, but no glue! Now to find something to remove the glue!

I did some testing of solvents starting with Acetone. I suspected the boat was styrene and tested it on the underside of the cockpit... whaddaya know, it started to melt it... so styrene it is, and the acetone is out. Next on my list was Mineral Spirits (Paint Thinner). Sure enough, it left the styrene alone and while I had to scrub a bit it did pull off the glue and residual black pinstripe tape. She looks MUCH better without the cheap plumage:

http://static.rcgroups.com/forums/attachments/4/3/6/4/6/a1139326-174-DorsalClean.jpg
You can clearly see the access screws. One of the white plugs was too low to easily remove and so I'll have to find a way to back it out to get to the screw... again :censored:

Here's another look to show you how clean her lines are when she's not toting around those decals:

http://static.rcgroups.com/forums/attachments/4/3/6/4/6/a1139325-235-CleanedUp.jpg

It was possessed of a good red paint job that follows the chines nicely. Only one 'iffy' spot on the rear that should clean up with an xacto knife. Also, the cockpit 'windows' are silkscreened on. No decals there. It's a decent job too.

http://static.rcgroups.com/forums/attachments/4/3/6/4/6/a1139331-84-KeelWhole.jpg

The mineral spirits made it all shiny. The point where the top deck and bottom was remarkably close. I'm still deciding if I want to 'finish' it with some sandpaper and polish. I probably will if I listen to the anal-retentive part of me... :rolleyes:

[Kmot]

High praise indeed, for an NQD boat! :p

[Shaun Hendricks]

Never said it didn't have its cheap parts... the electronics appear to be garbage but the boat itself is well designed. It won't win any races, but for purely functional, it's got all the right design points. Of course, that just make things easier on me to do the upgrade! LOL! :p

[der kapitan]

Uh, Shaun,

On charging batteries enroute to the pond with these RTR's, you may get an unpleasant surprise when the battery pack either fries or literally explodes in
your new Mustang or Lambourghini---.

The chargers are geared to a static 12V battery, and not one doing a charge
off the alternator in your car. It can virtually overcook that new pack!

It happened on my way to the pond with a new Reef Racer pack, stuffed into
my lighter plug---.

[Shaun Hendricks]

Sorry to hear about the damage to your car and battery... :(

I'm of the camp that all charging should be monitored in some fashion, especially in the car. Reach over and feel the pack every minute or so. If it gets too hot to handle, then pull the charge plug.

This is why I have a thermal sensor on my normal charger. It does that shut down for me but I still have to hook it up. I also only charge in metal boxes that can handle a runaway battery charge.

Most battery's can handle a little abuse... overtemp for a short period, overcharged, overdischarged, etc. As long as it's a rare event and kept to a minimum it should still work okay.

I think your experience may be due to the size of the battery in question. Larger batteries are less vulnerable to voltage and amperage changes, but I'm not sure what a Reef Racer uses. I'd used chargers like this before with no problems on 1700+ mah sub-c packs... both NiMh and NiCd (back when I was first in the hobby). I normally run my engine when charging batteries from the truck battery because I don't like to drain the cell.

So, your experience is certainly something to keep in mind. I didn't see any express warnings in the instructions to this effect, I'm not sure the wires could even handle much over 2 amps... but burning down your car would be a bad thing! :eek:

[retoabcr]

....

[der kapitan]

Hi Shaun,

Luckily it was in my old wagon. Later on, I did read the instructions, and there WAS a warning. Live and learn, I guess---. :o :o :o

[Shaun Hendricks]

Der Kapitan:

The instruction manual on this boat is a riot. I read it for entertainment on the English language. It's one page, back and front. It's really simple but the verbage is obviously translated from another language (assuming Mandarin or something like it). I don't think they go into much detail at all so if this charger has the same one you experienced it would be a mistake on NQD's part to overlook that level of detail. American's get a bit upset when they lose cars to bad instructions! So, I'll test it out and let you know. The stock battery will never be used in this boat so I can do some testing with it.

Retoabcr:

The setup is planned to be 2 27T Cobalt 400 motors drawing around 20 amps each. They will be hooked up to a 50A continuous (100A peak) ESC and a JR XS300 3ch synth Receiver. I may even put in servo controlled trim tabs on CH3. I'll start with the stock props but I think I'll end up with a 29mm prop on it. FECALC says I can hit 25mph with the setup but I think it's being very optimistic and it never asked me starting boat weight... so I have no idea how the boat will actually perform. I'd be happy to hit 20mph with it.

[retoabcr]

......

[MILLERTIME]

Shaun,
You just had to twist my arm didn't you.
I went to ebay and found this.
http://cgi.ebay.com/RADIO-CONTROL-NQD-SPEED-RACING-BOAT-25022_W0QQitemZ190073195748QQihZ009QQcategoryZ2564 QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem
About $ 28.50 shipped, I don't need another boat.
Maybe just one more.

Don M.

[Frank Hurd]

That link shows a single screw version. Just wanted you to know.
Frank

[Shaun Hendricks]

Don:

Looks like you found a better shipping price than I did. Congratulations on that! There where a couple of higher places but I hadn't found lower. So great job there.

It says it's 'vector thrust' so that should be the twin screw version like mine, however, there is a single screw version running around out there as well and it is cheaper. I went for the dual prop version intentionally.

I hope it has all the same 'features' mine does or better. I'm still surprised at the stuffing tube, and prop drive quality for the price. I was expecting a more cheaply done system in that area.

[retoabcr]

.....

[Shaun Hendricks]

I'm certainly no expert on wire drives for boats. Flex drives of all varieties always have issues. They solve problems by letting you flatten out your prop but create problems in wear and friction. The more powerful your motor, the less the friction means, which is why you see cable and wire drives in the high power setups. In lower power setups, you lose more in friction than you gain by flattening out the prop.

At least, this is how I have had it explained to me... I could be wrong, I'm no expert so I won't even begin to suggest what the solution would be. :confused:

[retoabcr]

........

[Shaun Hendricks]

With the hull cleaned up on the outside, and I finally got that other plug pulled by drilling it and slightly twisting in a small screw, then pulling it out like a cork... It's time to see if the hull does come apart.

I removed all the screws and set the aside (I like to stick them down to tape so they don't roll around the bench and it keeps them in the manner they came out of the boat!). I started with the smaller screws on the underside of the 'wings'. I then moved to the top screws. Everything came out nicely. A few gentle tests revealed that the stern arean was held together with glue. Luckily, it's a cheap glue and was not true model glue that would've welded the plastics together. Had that been the case, I would've stopped and worked only through the normal (large) opening. I lucked out and it appeared to be some kind of crappy CA stuff.

http://static.rcgroups.com/forums/attachments/4/3/6/4/6/a1142007-235-Topless.jpg

Next up was to pull the radio box. I had already disconnected the antenna, so all that was left was to undo the two screws which held the splash resistant radio box. It is not waterproof underneath because they didn't seal around the wires, they did seal around the antenna wires and the box itself has a rubber gasket around the main separation joint.

http://static.rcgroups.com/forums/attachments/4/3/6/4/6/a1142003-95-CheapElectronics.jpg

The electronics are just garbage... relay triggered on/off drive. This boat has more in common with an RC Tank than it does a boat... :D

[Shaun Hendricks]

Next on the list was to pull the motors. This was a very easy task, two screws held each combination heat sink/ hold down strap. Again, clean design and cost effective.

http://static.rcgroups.com/forums/attachments/4/3/6/4/6/a1142006-237-StkMTRTbones.jpg

The motors pulled, you can see the simple dog-bone style (t-bone) design u-joints. Very basic, but probably subject to some wear. No grease in there either, I'd say that was a bit of an oversight on NQD's part. How much would it have added to assembly... 10 seconds? Ah well, it is a toy... :rolleyes:

With the motors and electronics aside, I let myself salivate a second with a quick drop in of future components to spur my mind in imagination of the goal!

http://static.rcgroups.com/forums/attachments/4/3/6/4/6/a1142005-176-RoughNewLayout.jpg

To the future! ... (okay, enough mind games... on to the serious stuff!)

[Kmot]

Shaun, those Super 400 Cobalts are beasts! I have one in a Reef Racer.

I bet that plastic dogbone is pressed on, and not splined. You will spin those in a heartbeat on those cobalts.I would drill and pin them. ;)

[Shaun Hendricks]

Well, if you don't count the decals, I hadn't really destroyed anything this far into the conversion and I could put it right back to stock. Time to fix that little problem!

The issue is the boward strap of the motor cradle interferes with the length of the new Cobalt 400 motor (which is much longer than the original 380 motors). So I had 2 options here. Cut the sternward strap and let the nose stick further aft or cut the boward strap and let it 'hang out' further toward the bow. I didn't like distance issues with letting the motor move further aft. It would force me to cut the shaft back uncomfortably close to the bushing and that would mean potentially re-engineering the shafts. I'm trying to keep this simple!

Therefore, I decided to cut the boward strap. The results speak for themselves:

http://static.rcgroups.com/forums/attachments/4/3/6/4/6/a1142004-158-PostModMTRalgn.jpg

You'll notice the motor aligns almost perfectly now, and will once I get it setup for improved cooling. The Cobalt 400 has a slightly smaller diameter can than a standard SP400 and the end bell is the correct diameter. You can look back at the untouched mount and see how it orginally was. In the rough layout, shown earlier, you can see how cock-eye'd the motors were due to that boward strap.

Just for fun, here's a picture of all the yucky guts I've cut out of the boat. I think I'm going to try to re-use that water proof radio gear box! It's too convenient of a mount to pass up!

http://static.rcgroups.com/forums/attachments/4/3/6/4/6/a1142008-69-YuckyGuts.jpg

[MumblinAviator]

New guy here, looking at the same model...

Do you plan on adding a rudder or are you going to keep the Vector Steering option?

[Shaun Hendricks]

Vector steering is not an option with a single ESC running both motors, so it will have a rudder. Where I'd like to hear everyone chime in is to whether I should use the same rearmost rudder hull pass through or mount an external rudder off the stern in some fashion... feedback is welcome!

You can see the 'stock' rudder position here:
http://static.rcgroups.com/forums/attachments/4/3/6/4/6/a1139329-13-InternalStern2.jpg

If you just wanted to replace the motors for more umph, you can. Those relays are rated at 12A DC if I recall correctly. So you could choose a motor that would pull about that with the stock props. This would be a very easy change out and probably net you a little more power. The problem is whether or not the electronics could handle a voltage boost, call it 8.4 or 9.6 volts. That's where your real power gain would be. Better motors that can handle more power and a higher battery voltage.

In my case, I am moving to a different set of electronics to have greater control over speed and also compatibility with my current surface RC gear.

[MumblinAviator]

Thanks! What would you suggest for a couple of drop in motors off the top of your head?

[Shaun Hendricks]

Something in the 20 turn range would probably do. Maybe the graupner 7.2v sp400.

Here's the description from Hobby Lobby:
GR1794 SPEED 400 7.2V Electric Motor ..... $ 8.90

A speed 480 would give you a bit more torque to play with and give you some better prop options but at the end of the day, you really won't net much performance gain with just a motor change out. A cheap motor won't perform as effeciently as a good one, but it's KV (RPM per volt) will be about the same as a good one at the same winds. So where you net the performance gains is by increasing the voltage.

The 7.2 Graupner's have been run on 10cells or 3 cell LiPo and perform well.

I don't know if the electronics in the stock box can hack 12V, the relays should be able to deal with it, but I don't know about the rest of it. You could probably cheat and dump a 7 cell (8.4) hump pack in it and not let the magic smoke out but anything higher than that would be risking the electronics. I'd probably start there, even with the stock motors. See if the electronics hold. If they do, then try a motor upgrade and see if you can push the voltage even higher. If the electronics fry, you can always do the full conversion I'm doing for about another $60 (guesstimate).

In the end, it's a toy. I'm just going to see how much performance I can get out of the hull for just a few bucks and using stuff I already have.

[Kmot]

For simplicity's sake, I would use the stock rudder position.

[Shaun Hendricks]

Shaun, those Super 400 Cobalts are beasts! I have one in a Reef Racer.

I bet that plastic dogbone is pressed on, and not splined. You will spin those in a heartbeat on those cobalts.I would drill and pin them. ;)

Sorry Tom, I'd missed this post in the middle of mine!

Yeah, they are going to be power suckers, that's for sure. I'll be giving that ESC a workout! At no load these things pull like 13Amps if memory serves!

I'm not going to use the U-joints. The motors have 1/8th inch shafts and I think I measured the prop shafts at 4mm. I'm going to order one graupner 1/8th to 1/8th CF U-joint and one 4mm to 4mm CF U-Joint. I'll pry out one side of each one and swap it with the other, generating two 1/8th to 4mm u-joints. Dunno why Graupner doesn't do it that way. All for less than $10 from Hobby Lobby! :D

Those U-Joints should drop right in and line up almost perfectly. Of course, the best laid plans... Murphy's Law and other things might have something to say about that. :rolleyes:

[MumblinAviator]

I Love the design of this boat, but I was looking for the single motor version. Can anyone find it? There is a Mini version only 17" long with a single motor and rudder, but it's not quite the same boat design.
Any help would be great.

OH, and thanks for the motor inputs!

[MumblinAviator]

As an afterthought, how easy would it be to move some of the hardware to the center of the hull and convert this model to a single motor model?

[Shaun Hendricks]

Over on RCUniverse, there are several of these converted to single shaft, SP700 models. They say they hit 22mph with just that mod. I saw one with the octura in-line gear on it for mono hulls. It was flex drive.

Interestingly enough, the 'spare' props that come with the boat are NOT the same size as the ones that are stock on the boat. The additional props are 'performance' props judging by the increased size. Stock is 36mm, the 'performance' ones are 38mm.

This hull can easily be converted to center, single shaft style. Fill the dual holes and drill a new one for center. The back 'deck' is what keeps the transom stiff, so if you plan to remove that deck, you'll need to reinforce the transom with some lexan, sytrene or something.

[Shaun Hendricks]

Time to pull the shafts and see just how cheap they really are...
Looking at the design, the easiest way to accomplish this is to remove the prop nut,split washer, prop, dog, and o-ring off the back. Then the shaft just moves out forward. I thought about removing the e-clip but Kmot's observation that the dog bone (t-bone) u-joint would be pressed on came into mind. So I went from the prop side first and removed the shaft.

It was then that I found out Kmot didn't win the guess prize. They are just push on, not pressed on, and the shaft is ground flat through 1/3rd of the diameter. The dog bone is keyed to accept that ground shaft. Fast, but in time, with all that forward and reverse, this would likely wear out. However, for those of us planning on putting on real u-joints, this makes a convenient surface to bind the set screws down on! (oh yeah, the shafts appear to be just steel, not stainless as I found some rust under one of the plastic dog bone heads!)

All the parts laid out!
http://static.rcgroups.com/forums/attachments/4/3/6/4/6/a1148063-20-shaftcomponents.jpg

Next item... removing the trim rudder...
I'm inclined to agree with Kmot. Why not use the nice hole I was given for a new rudder! So, out with the trim rudder. This has proven to be the hardest task so far.

First idea was to pry off the top 'ratchet' that hold the trim rudder. You can see what I was going to do here:
http://static.rcgroups.com/forums/attachments/4/3/6/4/6/a1148061-0-Nicetrybut.jpg

I was not successful. The screwdriver just worked against the spring and I couldn't bind it up. So I switched to a very small open-end wrench and pried UNDER both the ratchets. I was worried about the flex I was seeing on the styrene but something was giving and eventually, I was surprised to find out what it was:
http://static.rcgroups.com/forums/attachments/4/3/6/4/6/a1148062-229-RudderRemoved.jpg
The trim rudder is just pressed on to the splines in the ratchet shaft. It popped loose and all that was left in the hole was the o-ring seal. I'm not sure the new rudder I put in will use the same seal, but it might. It depends if the servo I think I'm going to use can overcome the tension from the o-ring. I'm thinking I'm going to use an MG-81, direct drive to the rudder.

Anyone wanna chime in with other ideas? :D I'm all ears, or in this case, eyes!

Here's the inside view now:
http://static.rcgroups.com/forums/attachments/4/3/6/4/6/a1148064-33-stuff%26amp%3Brudderout.jpg

[Shaun Hendricks]

The drive shafts are slightly less than 3mm, at 2.87. It's an odd diameter. The tubes have real bushing pressed into them. The whole assembly could be swapped out with hobby grade stuff easy enough, but the idea here is to work with what I have, on the cheap. Now I have to purchase something... 2 u-joints from Hobby Lobby. They are 1/8th to 3mm u-joints and should work nicely in this application. However, they are half the cost of the boat! :eek:

Maybe now would be a good time to clean-up the hull and start painting... nah, I'm going to wait until I'm not doing any possible damage from building before I start painting! :D

[Kmot]

Instead of buying those high dollar u-joints from HL, take a look around your car/truck junk pile.

I was looking at some junk driveshafts from an E-maxx. I also have junk driveshafts from my Rustler and Stampede. They have very robust universals on them. In fact, I am thinking about shortening the splined driveshaft and tube and making a nice, short, sliding shaft for my boat.

[Umi_Ryuzuki]

I am interested to see if the Proboat ESC handles two motors.
I have had it cut out driving two less powerful motors.
And the rumor still stands that it will not run two motors for some unknown reason.
But that may be because none of us were running the "setup" each time we
turned on the boat.

[Shaun Hendricks]

Instead of buying those high dollar u-joints from HL, take a look around your car/truck junk pile.

I was looking at some junk driveshafts from an E-maxx. I also have junk driveshafts from my Rustler and Stampede. They have very robust universals on them. In fact, I am thinking about shortening the splined driveshaft and tube and making a nice, short, sliding shaft for my boat.

I had thought of that (and went scrounging) but the only car I have that I've replaced the u-joints on was my Mini-T (upgraded to high end CV style). My stampede still has factory connectors on it! (Tells you how tough they are!) So, I'm stuck with ordering the joints. I could've modded the stock couplers to work but I'm not convinced that the Cobalts wouldn't have them destroyed in a matter of moments. Admitted, I could coax the boat 'home' on 1 motor (the advantage of twin drive) but I figured that $18 additional investment in the upgrade isn't so bad. I could've done it a bit cheaper with a 'straight' coupler, but I don't want any additional pressures on the shafts or stuffing tubes.

[Shaun Hendricks]

Umi:

It's not a proboat ESC. There is no 'setup' I can do. It's a dumb ESC and I'm not anticipating any issues with the control of two motors so long as they are solidly connected.

I am a bit concerned about reverse. I'm wondering how much current the motors will pull in reverse so I am going to have to put my Whattmeter on one to see.

[Umi_Ryuzuki]

Ahh, I thought I saw a blue proboat sitting in the hull in an earlier image...
And those have an auto setup, but it has to be done each time you turn it on.
:)

[Shaun Hendricks]

It's the HK knockoff of the Proboat ESC. There are no setup instructions or setup mentioned in the single sheet 'guide' that came with it. I'm guessing it's totally dumb and if you have a computerized radio, you can set it up that way but if you're running analog I think you're stuck with the endpoints you have!

[MILLERTIME]

That link shows a single screw version. Just wanted you to know.
Frank

Nope looks the same to me.
This is not a bad boat, I' thinking jet drive might be fun.

Powered by Re-chargeable 7.2V Ni-CD battery
Home AC charger and Battery Pack is included
DIMENSION: 29.5"(L), 11.4"(W), 6.3"(H)
INCLUDED:
(8 AA Batteries are not included)
7.2V 1700mAh Ni-CD Battery Pack (For Boat) Home AC Charger
2Spare Propeller included

Not bad.
Subtotal: US $5.26
Shipping and handling: US $23.00
Total: US $28.26

[no stick]

Bought that boat. No heat sinks. Motors burn up. :p

Ed

[Shaun Hendricks]

Yeah, mine came with the transmitter AA's and a car charger as well as the home one. It does appear to be identical otherwise. I'd rather have had your version since I am just going to store or toss the stock electronics. I might find another use for them, who knows.

As an update, I got the Graupner U-joints from HL and did some preliminary fittings, looks like the cobalts will be snug and I'm going to have to cut down the stock shafts a bit but no fuss there. I'll post an update as soon as I get a chance to make the changes.

Once the motors are in, I'm going to tackle steering and mounting of the new ESC's. I'll have to purchase the LiPo's that I'm going to use, but I can also use them in all my other RC vehicles so it's a write off across many vehicles. :D

[Shaun Hendricks]

I was doing some R&D work on the boat, no pictures as it was a lot of test fitting and such to try and see what I was up against with the motors and the Graupner U-drives.

First, the U drives fit the shafts perfectly, so the 1/8th to 3mm joint, reduced down to a single articulation is a great fit.

Second, the prop shaft needed to be shortened and re-flattened on one side, easy enough, it seems to be standard steel.

Third, mounted everything up and the end bell of the Cobalt gave the motor a slight nose down, so modded up a ring to go around the nose of the motor to raise it. Still not totally satisfied on this aspect of the fit, working on it.

With everything bolted down, no prop on the end of the shaft, dumped 7.2v to the motor and worked it back in (motor hadn't been used for a while). A little vibration was noticeable. Then popped the motor with 12v and while it spun around like a scalded cat, it had more vibration than I would care for- with no prop on the end of it. So what should I look at?

Bent shaft? (doesn't look it but could be slightly off)
Out of balance u-joint? (could be, but how do you balance a u-joint? I have a prop balancer but it can't go through the whole joint!)
Something else? (Any help is appreciated).

Once I figure out the vibration thingy, I'll take pictures of the process of fixing the other shaft and post them up. After that, moving on to steering and mounting the ESC!

[Kmot]

Are the grub screws 180* from each other on the u-joint?

[Shaun Hendricks]

Now that I think about it, I'm not sure, they are either 90° or 180° from each other. You mean that Graupner wouldn't balance each half of the U-Joint? Ugh... I'm going to have to disassemble the joint and balance each half now. :censored:

[Kmot]

The u-joint can be out of balance, if the grub screws are both on the same side.

[Shaun Hendricks]

They aren't but that center H piece may have been necessary to invert them to 180°, so I may be 90° out. That means my only solution is to take the joint apart, use my prop balancer and start adding microdrops of CA on the light side until there isn't one...<sigh> I should've known the second I saw the mold flashing on the U-Joint that I was going to have to balance it.

That's okay, I need to order a pair of thrust washers anyway. I have to put one between the motorface and the u-joint to keep the prop from pushing pressure against the prop seal and up the line against the motor shaft itself...

[saleen s7]

cool build....i got mine at hobbytron for the full 70$ (probably only worth 40$ though)

i has a little fun with it, but i eventually chose to modify it...i gutted it, and decided to put a jet drive in it....jet drive should be shipped out by now....

your right about the cheap electrics....i stuck a 3600mah batt in it....after about 5 minutes of running, motors were ht enough to boil water on it (i tried) and the radio box was smokin!....

cant wait too see the results, hope it will reach the predicted speed....

[Shaun Hendricks]

I got the thrust washers in and did some work on it over the long weekend. Good news, I've finished R&D'ing the drive setup using the port drive as the guinea pig. So, as soon as I get my camera back, I'll do the starboard drive and post up the pictures of how to make the modifications.

I also have the servo for the rudder. The new battery and servo mounting plate, along with the rudder will be the most complex part of the build. That should take a bit of 'work', so stay tuned! :D

[RCheroske]

So how's your project coming along?

Just picked this Speed Storm up from www.geeks.com ( If you catch them on sale, they're $25) and it is same as your boat except for the hull type. Dual vector 380 motors and everything. Transmitter went right into the trash. Once I peel the decals off and repower/reradio it, it will make a nice scale boat to pull behind the F350 thats holding it up. :)

Sleeping retreiver not included.

[Shaun Hendricks]

I have my camera back but several real life issues have kept me from having any time to go at the second drive. The first one is in and operational (it screams at 11.1v with only an air load!). I'm still a little concerned about the vibration but that could also be from having no load on the system. Once I get the second drive install up and documented I'll do a tub test and see what she pulls under a full load.

[RCheroske]

Did anybody else get their boat running?

Anybody using brushless? That Cobalt is $40 and brushless is actually cheaper.

Not that I'm in a hurry since the local pond is still frozen over.

But SOON the ice will crack!!

[Shaun Hendricks]

Mmmmmm... paid $20 each for my cobalts. On sale all the time and with the brushless 'revolution' coming on strong, the sales tend to be fairly frequent.

You're right, if I didn't have the cobalt's on hand, I'd probably be dropping a couple of brushless outrunners in there on a plate mount.

[Fit]

Any updates?

I just got myself a Highwind too. Will run it stock first to see how fast (or slow) it actually is then will think of modifying it with my car stuff laying around.

Great thread by the way and nice pictures!
Well done! Will keep an eye on the thread for updates :)

[Shaun Hendricks]

I hopefully will try to squeeze in some work time this weekend. Should be able to get the motors and shafts fully mounted. Then it's on to the rudder which I'm still trying to figure out how I'm going to tackle the connections... :confused: :D

[RCheroske]

What is your hangup on the rudder?

[Shaun Hendricks]

Still debating the resolution. I think I want direct drive of the shaft, no linkage, but it's awful tight back there for that. I have an HS-56 now and will see if I can get it to fit, if not, then I may go with an HS-65MG and run linkage.

I didn't get any time as I got pulled into a neighbor's concrete project. I did get a chance to buy some of the bits though, like the new servo, so I'm set for hardware...

[polaris_rider]

Hi!
Im Daniel and i have also brought one of these racing boats.

I must say aswell that i was quite surprised by the boat that arrived.

But i have 1 question.

Do they have reverse? :confused:

my controlers got the setting for it but there is no reverse!!

Just wondering if it is supposed to.

Thanx!!

[Shaun Hendricks]

Hi Daniel:

I think you started your own thread but I'll answer what I know if you are referring to the same boat I have.

It has reverse, but like forward, it's limited. The boat is not proportional thrust or steering. The 'rudder' is actually just an adjustable 'trim' because turning is done by powering up one motor to full and the other one being off. Makes for wide turning circles. It is only on/off. Reverse appears to be the same.


Now, for everyone, I'm almost finished upgrading my 'workbench' and as soon as I can afford to finish it up, I'll have the workspace back to return to the project.

I now have a decent drill press that is capable of being an okay vertical mill. I'll be able to correctly mill out the plate that will serve as holder for the servo, batteries and probably electronics.

I have to replace one of the thrust washer sets I have or find a replacement race washer as I couldn't locate it. That will let me mount the other cobalt motor.

After that I have to save up and buy a good LiPo battery pack to drive this puppy.

So some small things before I can start up again and then I want this baby DONE. Sadly, I'll have 4-5 times the cost of the boat in her upgrade but she should run well. I have additional upgrades planned to test some experimental 'stuffing box' ideas and even contemplating a home-made motor system.

[sonny123]

I Think The Single Screw Would Be More Prferable.

[Shaun Hendricks]

The motors are being "drop in" replacements for the SP-300 motors that come with the factory boat.

It would take significant modification of the boat to make it single screw.

Single screw is more efficient speed and weight wise, however, it's also vulnerable to single point of failure throughout the entire powertrain.

In a twin screw boat, if you burn up a motor, unscrew or break a prop, bend a shaft, etc, you have another motor to get the boat back to shore with. In a single screw boat, you are... well... screwed. Time for your favorite retrieval technique.

Since the hull isn't really a high performance hull, one or two screws really won't help it as much as greater power to overcome the hulls design. A pair of Cobalt SP400's will probably propel the boat as fast as a single standard SP540 or 550 motor. Weight wise, it will be similar due to more powerful LiPo's today, and have some drive redundancy to get the boat back to shore.

Ultimate power would be a brushless rig, but then, why bother with a cheesy NQD ABS hull. Get a high performance boat and ooops, we're bouncing off the $1,000 range there, I'm looking at $150 total for my upgrades AND the original boat.

[Shaun Hendricks]

Okay, update time! (yeah, finally)

So my workbench is refitted, cleared and ready for action. I have some new tools and light machining ability now. Time to get back to work!

In my time off I finally came to a decision regarding this boat. As the title says, this is a conversion thread and there are different degrees of conversion and I had to decide what level of conversion I was targeting. I never truly had a money goal or a solid performance goal in mind at the start so I became stuck thinking what I wanted to do.

I now know what I want to do. I am not targeting a cheap upgrade any more. If I did, I could've just dropped in a pair of 540 can motors and rewired the relay's on the stock electronics to dump 14-24 volts to them. They are (stock) just on off motors.

Now I want to put 'upgradeable' gear on the boat. This is gear that if the boat doesn't live up to any decent performance with the mods, that I can strip and put on one of my inexpensive Hobby Lobby hulls and get better performance out of. This way I can use this boat as something of a test bed for gear.

So, I just purchased a standard Octura rudder rig, some adjustable trim tabs and cooling options.

I've decided I'm going to put a water pickup in the hole where the stock rudder went. the pickup is going to feed a dedicated water jacket for the ESC which is my main worry point. It should be able to handle the two Cobalts but I want to keep that thing as cold as possible. So I'm going to create a full waterjacket for the ESC since it's waterproof. That should be fun and if I mount the exit point right, give the boat a nice tattle tail fun (like a waverunner).

In the end, I'll probably end up with a boat approaching $200 and clearly there are better boat choices out there for that money, but I wouldn't want to risk a boat like that. I think I can beat this one up and try new stuff on it before I deploy it to a real performance platform. This is also a bit of fun in the build area. So this weekend, I'll see if I can finish up the motor and prop installations and then on to doing the electronics platform.

[no stick]

What, no pics :p :rolleyes:

Ed

[Shaun Hendricks]

Haven't done the work yet! Will pull the boat down tonight and hopefully get some work in on it.

[Shaun Hendricks]

(And other implasuible things! :D)

I was good to my word and got work done on the conversion. So, here's the shots:

My workbench didn't change much but the garage around it did! Kinda looks like I never stopped!
http://static.rcgroups.com/forums/attachments/4/3/6/4/6/a1861411-172-22NewWorkspace.jpg

Now to install the Starboard motor. I had already done the modifications to the mount, just have to put it in:
http://static.rcgroups.com/forums/attachments/4/3/6/4/6/a1861412-224-23NewMountinstalled.jpg

I didn't modify the heatsink/motor strap to sit correctly with the Super Cobalt so I had to cut in the back spacing. Gee, the last time I did this was a lot of filing. This time it went MUCH faster... wonder why!
http://static.rcgroups.com/forums/attachments/4/3/6/4/6/a1861413-83-24NewToy%40work.jpg

I had balanced the other Graupner U-Joint so I have to balance this one as well. Used my prop balancer and it works great. This U-Joint was in much better balance than the other one.
http://static.rcgroups.com/forums/attachments/4/3/6/4/6/a1861414-160-25BalancedUJoint.jpg
Note the deans plugs on the motor in the background. Since this is a twin screw job, guess what I did with the polarity on one of the plugs! :D

Motors got installed and adjusted. This is the hardest part of the driveline because there is ZERO clearance between all the components. That is why there are thrust washers next to the motors to prevent any force being applied back against the armatures of the motors. I know I'm always going to be lubing this driveline... ugh.
http://static.rcgroups.com/forums/attachments/4/3/6/4/6/a1861415-12-26MotorsMounted.jpg
One casualty of storage is I lost one of the thrust washers that go with the bearings. A brass one is filling the gap for now, or creating a gap is the better terminology! :eek: :D

Here the props are mounted. There is no clip holding on the drive shaft any more. All that holds these baby's into the boat is the set screw on the U-joint. If it comes loose, the shaft likely won't come out but the boat will likely immediately try to do circles!
http://static.rcgroups.com/forums/attachments/4/3/6/4/6/a1861416-179-27Newprops.jpg
I installed O-rings and stainless steel washers to give them just enough compression and act like a shock absorber on this end of the drive. The drive dog spins freely enough against the washer so I'm not worried about friction. I'm really not worried about it on motors that have the torque ratings these do.

Okay, so what's next. Since I have something capable of milling now, I'm going to build a custom electronics platform. I have a really cool (this is a pun) idea in mind and I'll document that build here as well. Stay tuned!

[Rex R]

a piece of 20# printer paper makes an addequate feeler gauge(about0.004") to set the gap betwixt thrust bearing and motor

[Shaun Hendricks]

Thanks Rex, that is a good idea. I have a nice set of gauges that I plan to use to do just that once the whole system loosens up after driving it around a bit. I have enough 'slack' built into the system I can use once the motor/U-joint/tube section loosens up. Right now, it's pretty tight but it will wear in. :D

[RC-Archer]

Are you going to use a rudder?

[Shaun Hendricks]

Yes, I have an Octura rig on order. I'm going this route to see if it works well with the 'V' hull. If it does, I'll probably also use it on another hull I have. The old trim tab hole you see in the hull will be used for a water pickup- also on order.

[Kmot]

Balancing the Graupner u-joint?????? Oh, that is extreme! You are definitely obsessive/compulsive!! :D :p

[Shaun Hendricks]

LOL! Yeah, actually, I just checked the balance on the first one and it was WAY out, so I was glad I did. This second joint, both ends were in good shape, one was already almost perfect so I didn't even shave it. The other side just needed a light going over with a file.

Call it O.C.D. but I did it on a whim.

I checked the stock props too, they weren't bad either! In fact, after I just cleaned up the flash lines on them, they were pretty well balanced. I was surprised to see balanced props from a $38 boat.

I picked up some Lexan from Home Depot and some "Plastic Surgery" glue from ACE. The glue was the only one that claimed an ability to bond both Lexan (polycarbonate) and ABS (the hull) plastic. I have to make some transome reinforcement for the rudder to mount to... also my new electronics tray!

[Shaun Hendricks]

Okay, the hardware from offshore electrics arrived about two weeks ago and I've been busy.

First, some disappointment, the trim tabs I ordered are too large for this boat and unworkable. They are nice, but unworkable. I'll use them on another project. Then I ran into a problem with the water inlet, it was not tall enough to mount the tubing directly down on to. That's a bummer, but mother necessity to the rescue. See the results as we go.

Alright, first installs are the easy stuff:

Decided to put the water outlet tattle-tale where the old 'on-off' switch was. I was going to re-use the switch but decided against it at the last minute. This should throw a nice spout of water from amidships over the aft to land in the rooster tail (of course I'm being optimistic in it having one!) Here's the inside connector-
http://static.rcgroups.com/forums/attachments/4/3/6/4/6/a1891132-108-28OutletInt.jpg
and on the outside -
http://static.rcgroups.com/forums/attachments/4/3/6/4/6/a1891133-253-29OutletExt.jpg

Okay, you've seen where the water goes, the harder part was about getting it into the boat. I've co-opted the original trim rudder entry position for this purpose. I wasn't completely sure until I saw the inlet, then it set it in concrete for me. The hole wasn't exactly perfect but some fast drilling and it was right-sized. A couple of o-rings and in she went. Small problem, not enough thread left to mount the tube to- oh noes!-
http://static.rcgroups.com/forums/attachments/4/3/6/4/6/a1891134-242-30InletInt.jpg
And here's what she looks like on the outside. I felt the design of the inlet would let me twist the inlet a smidge if she needed some directional trim, which I hope she doesn't!-
http://static.rcgroups.com/forums/attachments/4/3/6/4/6/a1891135-18-31InletExt.jpg

I had some time on my hands while I worked out the design problem of not enough threads on the inlet to mount the tube to. I noticed some white gunk on the rudder standoff so I mounted it up in the crossvice and put the buffer wheel in the drill press. Some rouge and it buffed off. I thought about doing a full polish but decided that the rudder was too fragile to subject to any serious polishing and I didn't want them not to match.
http://static.rcgroups.com/forums/attachments/4/3/6/4/6/a1891136-197-32Polishing.jpg

After the clean up of the standoff, I had a bit of an epiphany. I have some low pressure barbs for a sprinker system. They looked like the right size and maybe would work. So I cut the threading off the non-barb side, drilled and tapped the hex part of it and got this:
http://static.rcgroups.com/forums/attachments/4/3/6/4/6/a1891137-94-33InletTop.jpg
Not too bad but epoxied it on to be sure. Not sure if the expoxy will hold to the nylon though. Probably not, so if it comes loose, I'll use Lexall silicone adhesive or RTV.

This next step was a doozy. Many issues here. Firstly, I wanted to remove the transom reinforcement plate that came on the boat, small problem- it's glued on! So the external 'swim deck' has to stay... bummer! That made it more of a pain to work with the standoff and the control rod boot.
After a lot of measuring, remeasuring, cussing and brain work, I got everything fiddled in. I had to mod the mount ring for the boot to fit the area it had to go in but it took the grinding and came out like a champ. So, drilling and fitting done, it looks like this on the outside-
http://static.rcgroups.com/forums/attachments/4/3/6/4/6/a1891138-39-34NewGearExt.jpg
That's starting to look like a real hobby gear boat, well, it should, it is! Here's how the inside came out-
http://static.rcgroups.com/forums/attachments/4/3/6/4/6/a1891139-169-35NewGearINT.jpg
A little tight near the inlet point, but nothing else will be near it. Want to clip those screws so badly!

Now, even before I got the steering gear I've been working on the new electronics platform. It's going to be far more than what you see here but here's a sneak peek on where she's going to mount. My latest design keeps approximately the same size but seriously looks different. It is just for placement purposes.
http://static.rcgroups.com/forums/attachments/4/3/6/4/6/a1891141-119-36ElecPlatform.jpg

More to come!

[Rex R]

I would suggest that for your semi-permanent mounting of the hardware a small dab of silicone sealent on the hull side of the brackets(aquarium cement...) also some nylon insert locknuts...hth
rex

[Shaun Hendricks]

Thanks Rex. Yeah, she's got Lexall Silicone Adhesive between the hull and the boot, as well as between the hull and standoff. Didn't consider locknuts though, I have a few that small I think... Hmmm. I did tighten the nuts down tight enough until they bit into the ABS but locknuts might not be a bad idea!

[Rex R]

well since I hail from the go-faster crowd... we tend to look at fasteners as a potential trouble areas(kinda like a Harley rider). sometimes we use threadlocker & locknuts :). note mcmaster-carr has a nice selection of locknuts (and I have a box of ss 5-40 prop nuts in my prop box)

[Shaun Hendricks]

Got it Rex. Those prop nuts are the 'stock' ones. They are an odd size so I'm not sure I can get something off the shelf to fit them, I'll have to measure them out to see. I'd love a set of nice bullet ones on there!

So, here's my proposed electronics platform layout. It's made out of polycarbonate (lexan) and will be machined with the proper areas. The 'thicker' areas where the electronics will go will be several layers of .25" lexan. The main tray will also be .25" and be milled. The covers will be thinner lexan, almost 1/8th inch. They will be screwed down with SS machine cap screws. The hole locations are not shown for the screw downs, only for the main mount down to the boat.

http://static.rcgroups.com/forums/attachments/4/3/6/4/6/a1894620-249-37ElecPlatform.jpg

Comments? Suggestions? I'm open to all ideas... :D

[skp]

i posted on the electric side and they led me to your thread. I bought a similar boat and was going to try what you are doing but it looks like you are pretty involved in this project. I read in one of your last post you could rewire the current electronics for more power for bigger motors. If this is possible i will try that route for now. I opened the cover and on the black boxes relays? it says jixing coil dc 6,9,12,24 v dc capacity 5,8,10,15 A 250 v AC on the side AC 220 v 15 a, 24v 15a, 6a. will these take 24 v in current state then I could just put in the bigger motors and 3 battery packs. I did put additional weight in the boat and it still was floating high. advice on wiring would be appreciated. If any one has the electronics they ripped out and wants to sell them cheap I would be intrested then if I fry the current ones I still can put it back the way it is. anyone might want to reply to this on my other thread it is upgrading p-16 so yours doesnt get off track

thanks

[MilMan]

I have the same 1/16 scale Highwinds twin 380 motor boat.
Is there a more powerful or faster charging battery than the 7.2 that I can use with this boat for these motors?

[Shaun Hendricks]

Well, the problem with the battery is that it runs through electronics before it gets to the motors. Simply put: you can try a higher voltage pack in the boat but you might fry the electronics. The motors can likely handle up to a 9.6v pack without much problem. Other components though might not be so happy about the increased power.

The boat runs the motors off of two relays. They are nothing more than 'on/off/on' switches for the motors. They turn the boat by shutting one motor off. They reverse the same way.

If you REALLY want to reliably increase the voltage to the motors, you'll need to replace the stock electronics with conventional ones. That also means you'll need to replace the transmitter (with one that can do mixing across two channels) a receiver, a pair of ESC's, etc.

By the time you're done, you will have spent a lot of dough just upping the voltage.

In my mind, if you are looking for more speed, and this little boat in it's stock form isn't fast enough, it is more effective to purchase an entirely new RTR boat that is built for speed. There are so many options around the $200 mark that you'd probably be happy with the choice. You can give the HighWind to the next beginner.

My interest in this boat has become one of just seeing what I *CAN* do with it. Sadly, other projects have dominated my workbench and the nearly finished HighWind sits there mocking me almost nightly. I haven't even had time for any hobby work. My wife has me pretty busy these days. She comes first. :D

[MilMan]

Thank you for the response.
Just trying to find the reverse thread prop nut for this boat was a chore in itself. after spitting the right prop nut the second time I used it.
I guess I will keep the same battery unless I upgrade to a better boat like you advised.

[karfrik]

so did you get to finish it?.....

[jdcanadian]

awesome build dude... i got a radio shack wave runner a few years ago for free for helping a friend move and after thrashing it and destroying the stock radio(garbage to begin with) i re-powered/re-radioed it. upgraded 540 replaced the 380 motor and put in a real radio, now it screams and still looks stock which is fun when ppl think it's just from radio shack...

[Shaun Hendricks]

Well, before I get to do the electronics platform, I decided that I needed to time the motors and get them all set up for running. I had noticed that suddenly the port motor began to 'drag'. I thought it was a driveline problem, so I figured "I'll just time the motors without load and then fix the faulty driveline."

Things don't always turn out like you expect. The driveline was not the issue, the port Super400 pulled what the Super400's are famous for: magnets decoupling! They use a cheap epoxy to hold the powerful magnets in place. When one breaks loose, it imediately gums up the works or starts breaking its buddies loose. In this case, it just gummed up the works.

I was able to re-glue the magnet back in place but now the motor won't time with the other motor, its performance has been damaged. It was a used motor to begin with and had survived several crashes as the primary motor in my EZ Star. I was hoping I could break in the other motor so they ran close because the other one was brand new. Now... it looks like the concept of recycling motors isn't such a good one.

So either I change this into a single motor drive boat or change motors. I can get some inexpensive SP400 motors and go from there or even some long can SP300's that can handle 12v. Maybe do something more radical like switch to outrunner brushles.... decisions, decisions!

[Shaun Hendricks]

I apologize to those that I didn't immediately respond to, the build has been (like usual) on hiatus due to workspace and worktime restrictions. Just got back into it with the above results...

[nick30head]

i have one of these (my 1st boat) i took out the stock motors and electrics and replaced it with twin 500 motors, 2ch rx and 50a esc, it goes great with 7.2v 4000mah battery, i also put a new alloy rudder on and it turns on a penny, i found though that it jumps alot when going over its own wake so i put a bit of airplane ballast in the nose to bring it down slightly, im thinking about stripping it out and putting in a single motor with flex shaft and rudder but am unsure where to put the battery

[nick30head]

hey people, i mentioned earlier today that i have one of these boats and what i've decided is to go jet-drive, i've ordered it today so when its in i'll put up some photos for people to look at if they wish, this will be my first jet-drive aswell

[Shaun Hendricks]

Well, I decided to go 'inexpensive' to start. If the boat performs well on the long can 380's I'll consider moving up to brushless, but I have other hulls that should perform better than this one so I probably won't.

Here's the motors I've ordered:

http://www.mabuchi-motor.co.jp/cgi-bin/catalog/e_catalog.cgi?CAT_ID=rs_380ph

At the whopping $2.50 each, they likely won't break the bank and should drop right in to my current setup. They are also internally fan cooled. At 12v they will likely need it. I know they won't have the same 'hole shot' or top end the Cobalt 400's would've but they should have a top end near them. I know I can't really up prop them like I might have been able to do with the Cobalt's. Ah well, should get me running.

[Shaun Hendricks]

I got the motors in and whoa... they have serious torque!

I think they might be too slow for this boat but I will give them a try. I've ran them at both 12v and 24v. On 12v, it seemed very tame, too tame. I think the stock motors would have higher rpm at the stock voltage. However, I was unable to stop the motor shaft by pinching down on it with just my fingers until I was burning my skin doing it. On 24v... forget it.

These will probably be sucky FE motors (without gearing or proping up) but man, they'd make GREAT little tug motors.

I think I'm going to try for some performance motors in the 300 size. Maybe these:

http://www.venom-group.com/itemdesc.asp?ic=VEN%2D1320