How to perform a rudder roll?

[DennisG]

Hi -
I'm flying a Terry, ret.
Looking to advance past puttering around the sky and inside loops.
I understand that you can roll a plane with just rudder... Can anyone describe to me how it's done?
Any info on other basic maneuvers would be appreciated too.
I checked the aerobatics links, but they're a bit too advanced for me and they're all for full house planes.
Thanks in advance,
Dennis

[Mitch G]

I think with the Terry, your best bet will be a snap roll.

Take the plane way up high - high enough so that if you lose complete orientation you'll still be able to recover.

Then cruise along at level flight, and yank full up elevator and left or right rudder at the same time. If your elevator throws are big enough it will do a very fast and somewhat violent-looking roll. This is the snap roll. If it doesn't work the first time, try it a few times at different speeds. If it still doesn't happen, you can try moving the CG aft a bit or increasing the elevator throw. Moving the CG should be done in small increments - on the order of 1/8" or so.

Again, make sure you are high enough to recover.


Mitch

[DennisG]

Well, I gave it a shot, and what it did was more of a sloppy looking tight loop than a roll.
Could you give me a bit more of a detailed description of what it should look like?
I think I've got plenty of elevator throw, it seems like I could use more rudder throw.
The Terry's stock set-up is quite nose heavy.
I intended to move the cg back before heading out yesterday.
The first thing I wanted to do was move the receiver aft of the servos, but it turned out the lead from the esc was too short.
I started to cut out the bottom of the wing bolt pylons to move the battery back, but it was very hard to reach in there to do it.
I removed about 1/4" and already the wing is able to twist more.
Moving the battery back 1/4" didn't seem to have a noticeable effect on the CG.
In order to make a difference, I think I'm going to have to make the mod to change the wing hold down to rubber-bands instead of the wing bolts, and I'm not sure I want to do that. (may not have a choice though)
Anyway, I did do my first outside loop... It was easy! Don't know what I was afraid of.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: I love my Terry!

[steve lewin]

Sorry I've never flown that plane so I could be wrong but you may find you simply don't have enough rudder for either a normal (barrel) roll or a snap roll. If you can easily pull it into a fast turn banked at around 90 degrees it should roll.

The method for a standard roll is, again at a good height, basically point the nose up around 30 degrees then add full rudder. As the plane comes round you need to take the elevator off and then as it gets inverted you'll need some down elevator (often quite a lot). Keep the rudder full on, easing the elevator back off until it is the right way up again. It should look like the plane is rolling round the outside of a cylinder (or barrel ;)). It's a lot easier to do than to describe.

Be a bit careful with the snap rolls, they're very high-G manouvers. Sometimes what snaps is the wing :(.

If it won't do either of those you need more rudder throw and/or a larger rudder.

Steve

[JTinCT]

The rudder on the Terry is big enough for nice snap rolls. Set up both controls for maximun deflection and jerk the stick full down and right as fast as you can. If you need to, set up your dual rates for tamer flight when not trying to bounce it around in the sky :p. Your Terry should be able to do stall turns and fly inverted well too. For stall turns, just fly straight, at a high rate of speed and then pull up to vertical. Just before it stops (stalls) hit full left or right rudder and it will ride the rudder backwards as it kicks the tail side ways. Let it turn until it is heading straight nose down and add some elevator to return to level flight. This is a fun manuver that is easy to practice because the finish sets you up for the next one. Remember stay high, far away from that wicked terra firma! :D
John Tracey

[Chris True]

To perform a rudder roll start with plenty of altitude, if you get inverted and panic you can 1/2 loop out of it.

Plenty of altitude
Max speed - a little 5 -10 degree dive for a bit extra wouldn't hurt.
Smoothly pull the nose 5 degrees above the horizon
Release the up elevator
Apply FULL rudder
As the plane approaches inverted smoothly apply down elevator to push the nose back above the horizon a bit
Continue holding full rudder as it rolls upright.
Apply whatever up elevator is needed to attain level flight again.

If you get inverted, apply the down elevator and the roll rate stops don't panic. Keep the down elevator in until the nose is slightly above the horizon then release it, the roll rate will resume.

Once you can confidently do that then do 2 in a row, it is all in the elvator application timing - up-nuetral-down-nuetral-up repeat as required. Your Terry might not have enough power for continious rolls but with an appropriate airframe you can turn continious rolls into a rolling circle by applying enough down the stay level while inverted and 3 times the up when upright to change direction with each roll.

[Bill Glover]

If you've never done any aerobatics before I'd forget about using the elevator during the roll, to start off with.

Shallow dive on full throttle, pull up to about 20 degrees, apply full left rudder (most - but not all - models roll better to the left, with the motor torque). The nose will drop while inverted, but that's why you started nose-high in the first place. Coordinating the down elevator input to keep the nose level takes some practice, and as already mentioned, can slow the roll rate right down.

Practice with plenty of altitude, and if you chicken out and have to half-loop back to level flight I suggest closing the throttle first, or you may fold the wings!

[oldpilot]

DennisG

Please don't compromise the integrity of your wing mounts by cutting any more stuff out in an attempt to move the CG aft by moving components within the fuse.

Just add a little weight to the tail. The longer momont arm is much more effective in moving the CG position and a small piece of lead (or a coin) taped to the base of the stab is easily carried by the Terry.

I also suggest you beef up the wing by running a 1" wide piece of fibre reinforced tape 10" long, across the wing centre section, top and bottom at the thickest part, if you are going to do snap rolls.

My friend snapped the wing on his Terry doing just that!!!

Cheers. Patrick.:) :D

[Bill Glover]

BTW a proper snap (aka 'flick') roll is a stalled manouevre, and although the rotation rate is high there should be little stress on the airframe. Same as a spin (even a flat spin), which doesn't put much load on the model. But a spiral dive (looking very much like a spin to a beginner) builds up airspeed very quickly and you can certainly fold a wing if you're not careful!

So good advice to apply a little strengthening if you're experimenting with aerobatics for the first time, some foamies can be over-stressed quite easily!

[oldpilot]

BILL

My pal, Al Black- (Lord Tedders stepson)- was killed doing a flick roll in a Harvard. Tore the ailerons off.

Cheers. Patrick. :( :( :(

[Bill Glover]

Yikes, not nice :(

The guy that originally taught me to fly r/c was killed (along with his girlfriend) doing some gentle aerobatics in a Stampe at a UK fly-in. That was a structural failure, caused by a missing pin or bolt following an overhaul some time earlier.

(He was Marcus Norman, son of famous UK modeller P E Norman .. a pioneer of pendulum control for free flight models, and later, ducted fans).

[Gordon]

I don't know the way that the Terry is set up, but rudder rolls are much easier and smarter if you have a fair amount of dihedral - at least 5deg per wing panel.

If increasing rudder throw doesn't cut it, you'll have to increase the dihedral a bit.

Gordon.

[oldpilot]

Has Anyone tried cutting the Terry wing in half at the centreline, sanding a slight chamfer on the butt joint and then glueing it together again with UFO CA or Epoxy, to get some dihedral.

Should work. If youv'e got the nerve!!!

Cheers. Patrick.:cool: :) :D

[ronvandy]

Guys

Is there a thread here or reference work somewhere outlining the range of maneuvers you can do with only rudder/elevator/throttle?

Ron

[edbuell]

There are several good threads about upgrading Terrys and in particular about reinforcing the wing.

search for Terry.................

Its a great plane...........glides.........sport flies........

and when you crash...........it doesnt cost too much

Ed Buell