The XL team [Archive]

chronos333

Jan 14, 2007, 12:51 PM

We ordered 3 thermik XL from Jürgen Schmeier.
We are supposed to receive them next week.
2 has the "schmeier" fuse which looks a lot like the XXL's fuse (except smaller). Bot will be used in electric X-country with onboard telemetry.
1 has the standard nose cone fuse and will be used at local F3J contests.
These are all carbons XL's with spoilers (landing should be a non event with crow+spoilers) :cool:
Custom paint schem, for the bottom one has white stripe over natural carbon :eek: , the 2 others have blue stripes on white background.

Daniel Mc Crae

Jan 14, 2007, 09:12 PM

Can't wait to get my hands on mine ! ( The F3J fuselage one )
Those full carbon versions of the Thermik XL were custom made for us by Jurgen Schmeier and should be something else to see :D

They look like very stiff and incredibly sleek aircrafts. Zoom launching and high speed runs on a 4 meter span full composite beauty... fun... :p

chronos333

Jan 25, 2007, 08:15 AM

Hi guys,

We received them.
Quality is OK, not the best we have seen.
Its not big, its huge (4 m is a lot bigger than 3m).
Its really strong (full carbon)
The surprise I got yesterday night: my fuse is made of a beuatiful carbon/kevlar rowing which I wasn't expeting.
Pics to follow.
My setup (for the servos) is:
Multiplex micro digi torque: elev/flaps
Futaba 3150: ail
Bms 380 MAX: rudder
HS81: airbrakes (yes sir!)

I intend to put a geared setup spinning at either 4S 100amps or 6S 80amps. No prop smaller than a 16X8.

chronos333

Jan 26, 2007, 10:30 AM

here are some pics taken by Thierry.
The nemesis is here for comparison

Daniel Mc Crae

Jan 26, 2007, 01:18 PM

Some pics of the very same aircraft except for the front part of the fuselage that keeps the original Valenta Thermik XL slip on nose. I won't make it as an electric boosted glider so I kept the original thermal LD fuse.

Pics also shows the very nice and efficient ready installed airbrakes to slow the model to a crawl while coming in for landing :cool:

tiju000

Jan 26, 2007, 08:33 PM

Salut Dan,

It looks nice with the nose cone. All white no black canopy....mmm you mist something ;-)

Have you checked the way to make the flaps linkage.

In the other thread they got some problems to have the 80 to 90 deg. deflection without cutting the rear spar or a big hole in the top of the wing ?

tiju alias XL Team member

chronos333

Jan 26, 2007, 10:09 PM

Personally I think we don't need 90 degree movement as we also have the airbrakes.
Hinges are so stiff I really wonder how we'll be able to get the full deflection

tiju000

Jan 26, 2007, 11:27 PM

http://www.neufstream.com/tag/deuxième/video/xzftp_thermik-xl-2

tiju000

Jan 27, 2007, 05:03 PM

Ok guys here are some pics from my building.

The holes are 45 mm from the spare ( both sides). The back one is 9mm from the bottom and the forward one is 10mm ( thoses dimensions are exactly the middle)

I plan to use the Dean connector to connect the aileron servo between the outher and the inner pannel.

Any comments.

chronos333

Jan 29, 2007, 04:56 PM

Today I did the whole fuse: elevator/rudder/wirring harness, etc...
Tomorrow I will do the wings
Wednesday I should also finish my insane flying wing
Who said I wasn't busy?

Daniel Mc Crae

Jan 29, 2007, 11:25 PM

Not an easy step here... Took me some time to figure out the right way to do the flap servo installation :confused:

Not much room in those servo bays, not to mention the airbrake harness sharing that already scarse area... (airbrakes are an optional feature)

Wanted as much deflection as possible from my HS 85MG control horns so after some test fitting and mesures I found that I needed as much room I could find... First I used my Dremel tool to dig a small channel into the under layer skin supporting the carbon top skin. Gave me an extra 1 mm clearance for the control horn and clevise.

Then I took some extra mesurements to find exactly where I should glue the servo to the thick fibreglass servo cover. Didn't use the supplied wooden servo tray here because of that airbrake structure in the way. Glued the servo with a gab of Goop and a couple of CA tacks at the corners to keep the servo in place while the Goop sets.

Next, Dremel tool job on the top of the wing in that small area close to panel trailing edge where the pushrod will exit. This area will be covered at the end with a small fairing included in the kit. Notice that I also had to carve a bit into the trailing edge spar again for pusrod clearance. No structural issue here at all. Those wings are so strong :D and besides, this aft spar mainly only keeps the two wing skins aligned to each other.

Flap control horn is glued deep into the flap skin, as low as possible to get as much deflection as possible.

Completed installation pics to follow tomorrow :)

tiju000

Jan 30, 2007, 08:32 AM

Here's what I plan to install in my XL. Actually it's stuff I have in hand.

JR3421 Elevator/Rudder
JR368BB Ailerons + Flaps
HS85 Airbrakes Yes yes I got them lying on my shop so why not using them.

As we plan to make some XC soaring with Alex perhaps I'll go with some Duralite Li-Io batterie for the RX those batteries look nice and if you use a 4 cells pack you got some kind of redudency if one cell or solder or else go wrong you still got your receiver powered. I'll check if it worst the price and the load. Because I need to use a power regulator with this stuff. I also have some Elite 4500 so perhaps I build a 5cells pack.

I plan to plug the +/- comming from the battery directly to the wing plug for the flaps and ailerons. So just the signal wire of those servos will go to the RX« this will not load the RX power bus...

For the rudder/elevator/airbrake I'll connect them directly to the RX.

Using a JR 9 channels receiver, I'll be able to plug almoast everything without Y cables ( keep it simple it's the best way to avoid problems at the field)

Here's the use of the channels ( not sure of the order on my JR stuff)

1. Right Ailerons
2. Left Ailerons
3. Right Flap
4. Left Flap
5. Elevator
6. Rudder
7. Airbrake
8. Airbrake
9. Motor ESC
B. Battery

I'll need to use a programation "channel" on my 9303 for the airbrake plugged in 2 differents channels but all the other possible mix for a fullhouse sailplane are "basic" in the JR programation.

chronos333

Jan 30, 2007, 05:54 PM

Today:
* I finished the wiring harness on the center panel, including the reverser for the spoiler and the fitting of the DB15. I will test everything tomorrow. I hope smoke won't come out (kidding).
* I did most of the flap and aileron linkage, but discovered I had to "rewiper" everything as daniel did. The skin being thicker than the standard version, it rubs alot.
* I did the carrying bag (if we can call this a bag). It is made of the original packaging+tape+foam used in camping as a bed. This foam IS exepensive but it IS the best I found.
* I assembled the gearbox and soldered the esc.

Tomorrow I will try to,
* rewiper everything
* finish the flap & ailerons linkages
* do the spoiler system and set it up
* do all the connection with the outter panels
* Instal the servo covers
* Sand and cover the flying wing

Later I will instal the motor as I just discovered the gearbox output shaft was 6mm instead of 5mm ;(
I just bought a 45mm rfm spinner.

Ciao

emersunn

Jan 30, 2007, 06:49 PM

Kinda late to chime in here but flipping the flaps from top to bottom throw is not a hard modification and you will be rewarded with more braking power. Even with the spoilers you will be wishing you had this.

Had an XL and a friend had an XL with this flap mod and it was much improved.

I really like how these planes fly but they are damn heavy.

chronos333

Jan 30, 2007, 07:10 PM

ours are even heavier than the std glass version, dry weight around 3.3kg... hey it's still lighter than an Alpina!
For the flaps we get 60 deg of deflection which is OK for braking. But this is heavy stuff so it won't float when landing even at 90deg. Thx for the advice anyway.

Daniel Mc Crae

Jan 31, 2007, 01:07 AM

Couple of pictures showing the final results. Clean and stiff. 60 degree deflection plus big airbrakes

chronos333

Jan 31, 2007, 08:35 PM

Hi guys,
I did the flaps and the wipers, what pain!
I have the same deflection as Daniel (60 degrees) which is quite an achievment as my servos (MPX micro digis) are thicker than Daniels' HS85. However I mounted the servos in the wing and did the bizare setup as shown on Valenta's setup sheet as I had more throw this way than with Daniel's method.
The result is clean/stiff/without play but it was hard to get there. I HATE FLAP JOBS WHATEVER THE PLANE!
I noticed the airfoil was thiner than my F3F moldie which has a MH32 (unthined). Also I am amazed of the torque and holding power of these MPX digis. I would definitely buy them again if needed.

To sum things up, today I assembled a 4m glider and bored myself with the flap linkages, then I happilly sanded my flying wing ... all in our small appartment! I then did a cleaning rush from hell (1 hour) so the miss wouldn't freak!

To finish this plane I only need to do:
* ailerons linkages
* glue the spoiler servos which are already in place
* do the other half of the connection with the outter panels
* Install the servo covers

I also need to cover the flying wing as I received my mega 16/25/3 today... Dan watch out!

If anybody needs pics just ask.

tiju000

Feb 01, 2007, 08:40 AM

Alex can you give me some pics of the Valenta setting you've done. Is it the one with bending the pushrod and not cutting the TE "spar"

For me as I'm not on holliday like some lucky guy ( hein Alex) I can just work on it during the evening but ...after playing with my 8month's old baby. So this mean after 8pm.

The last 2 days I "repaired" those damn hole for the allignement pin between the outer panel of the wings. I applyed a lot (3 coats) of carnauba boat wax and then mix some 30 minutes epoxy with micro ballon and let it cure for all night. Of course it took 2 nights because it has to cure verticaly for each side of the wing.

I find a 649rx I got in another plane than doesn't need 9 channels so I'll be able to check all servos before installing them.

I got to the hobby shop after the works to buy some 4-40 linkage.

chronos333

Feb 01, 2007, 10:43 AM

Lucky to be on holiday? Am I really that lucky to work with you know who?????
4-40 is the way to go, I did put some 2-56 on the ailerons though. All my rods (except spoilers) are carbon made.

For the flaps, I did it without bending.
I had to cut a bit of the rear spar diagonally I "dremeled" almost half of it on the servo side and about 1/4 of it on the trailing edge side.
I dremeled the foam in the servo well to gain some space.
I wraped the servos in some masking tape and glued it in the wing once I got the good position. To keep it in place while the epoxy cured, i used a dab of CA+accelerator.
To get an acceptable deflection, I used the second hole of the servo arm (the servo arm pointing to the bottom of the wing and almost touching the cover by less than 1mm) I had to trick things around to get neutral and proper defection by playing with subtrims, EPA, servo position.
A lot of: Open the clevis, move things, beep-beep-beep, Open the clevis, dang the control road went behind the servo arm, fish the rod, re-open the clevis, and so on.... Took me 2+ hours. Its always the same with moldies when you want to do things the right way...

I will post a or two pic tomorrow

chronos333

Feb 01, 2007, 10:44 AM

By the way do you like my new avatar?

chronos333

Feb 02, 2007, 07:53 AM

To answer Tiju's request here are some pis of both my flaps and fuse gear setup. I probably won't use the radio tray given in the fuse, I may use it partitally (still unsure) as long as it doesn't interfer with the battery packs.

Jurgen

Feb 02, 2007, 08:05 AM

By the way do you like my new avatar?Tells something about you right? :)
I'm curious about the all up weight of the planes.
Jurgen.

tiju000

Feb 02, 2007, 08:50 AM

Hi guys,

I checked the "best" way to install the flaps with my 3421 servos ( they're 15mm thick).

I made a "print" of the ribs and made some pics. Damn the skin is so thick ( about 3mm at the bottom of the wing).

The 3421 looks like it'll fit the exact way Dan install it. I'll be able to use the first hole on the servo. I'm actually not sure we got a good way to install them from the bottom with less drag on the profile.

So I let you know.

I try some programmation and tests on my radio yesterday evening but the battery wend down after 10 minutes. So it was not the day......

Any way we got some time we still have snow here in Canada.. :( ...

chronos333

Feb 02, 2007, 09:46 AM

Tells something about you right? :)
I'm curious about the all up weight of the planes.
Jurgen.

Yeah, it means that I like to bring square props along with tight underpants when flying!

The all up weight, I have no idea yet as I haven't installed the motor but should be around 4200g AUW with 16XGP2000

tiju000

Feb 02, 2007, 12:20 PM

Ok after a few "thinking" I'll configure the XL

DS368 for the Ailerons and the Rudder
DS3421 for the Flaps and the Elevator
HS85 for the Spoilers

Did one of you had a look if it's better to install the elevator servo infront inplace of back in the tail ?

chronos333

Feb 02, 2007, 12:59 PM

It is better in the tail. It's easier and more direct

Daniel Mc Crae

Feb 06, 2007, 12:03 AM

Tells something about you right? :)
I'm curious about the all up weight of the planes.
Jurgen.

Hello Jurgen !

Nice to talk to you here :)

The planes are really nice and VERY strong. Because of that overkill construction, their AUW will be pretty high but they should be very good and clean flyers anyhow.

On my version, with the slip on nose cone fuselage I am using a 5 cells 3300 NiMh battery receiver pack and I had to put more than 500 grams of lead in the nose to balance the plane at the 98 mm aft position. This is giving me around 4.2 kg all up weight. More than what I would have like for thermal flying but I know I will still get very good performance out of it. I will also fly it on the slope. Wing area on the Thermik XL is very similar to my ASW20 4.6 meter span scale glider that weights almost 8kg... So the thermik XL will be a real "floater" in comparison to my ASW20. :D

Jurgen

Feb 06, 2007, 02:18 AM

Hi Daniel, thanks for the input,

actualy for 500gr lead + 300gr battery (i assume quickly 60gr/cell) one could make it electrified for same AUW. Just a thought.
Jurgen

Daniel Mc Crae

Feb 06, 2007, 12:14 PM

Indeed, Alex motorized XL should weight around the same but I will keep it as a pure glider. My big ASW20 is already motorized. The very strong wing of the Carbon XL will make possible to winch it hard and high and I will also use it as a slope glider. The stiff and clean nose cone without any openings and fragile motor in the front is what I need to land on the sandy dunes of Cape Cod, Massachuset.

Some pictures of my ASW20 and my Lunak on Cape Cod slopes. ;)

chronos333

Feb 06, 2007, 01:40 PM

chronos333

Feb 06, 2007, 01:42 PM

For those of you who don't know about the fun we had at Cape Cod check this out:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=614369

Daniel Mc Crae

Feb 06, 2007, 04:05 PM

we know you Daniel, tough is mandatory with you. You're a kind of Darwin in this respect.... natural selection of species ya know!
By the way, be careful with the winch. It is heavy and has lot of area, you will sure break the line or give the club's winch a tough time...
By the way I almost finished my demon flying wing yesterday... I will sure need some kind of bungee to launch this 58oz beast...
Dan for the XL my setup should be around 1000-1200W will it be enough for a 4.5kg glider?
I have no experence with such big gliders.
How many watts did you have in your 8kg asw20?
The cohen weighted 3kg and I had 700W and it was OK at 1000W it was a lot better...

As you know Alex, the name of the game here is to gear or not to gear :confused:

If you go direct drive on a smaller prop 1000 watt will be OK but your climb rate will be quite flat, but I believe you choose a geared setting, didn't you ?

Please write me down your motor specs, gear ratio, batteries and prop intended to be used. I'll put this into Motocalc. I will then compare the figures I get with the one I already have for many other settings I've tried in real life applications to give you a better idea of what to expect ;)

tiju000

Feb 06, 2007, 04:59 PM

ok here is one

Neu 1512 2.5D 6.7/1 5s2p 5000mah 18x11

MotoCalc give something like 46A 810W 5150rpm 155oz

Daniel Mc Crae

Feb 06, 2007, 05:21 PM

ok here is one

Neu 1512 2.5D 6.7/1 5s2p 5000mah 18x11

MotoCalc give something like 46A 810W 5150rpm 155oz

Obviously Thierry this setting should give you very strong climbs :D
800 watts here is more than enough because you will be spinning a large prop with it's associated large thrust figures. Actually your thrust-to-weight ratio should be around 1:1 so you cannot expect unlimited vertical climbs like on a small jet like model of course, but strong 60 degrees+ fast going-up-there runs :cool: You should be quite high in less than 45 seconds :eek:

Daniel Mc Crae

Feb 06, 2007, 05:34 PM

ok here is one

Neu 1512 2.5D 6.7/1 5s2p 5000mah 18x11

MotoCalc give something like 46A 810W 5150rpm 155oz

In comparison, my 3 meter span 2,8 kg Barraccuda uses "only" 600 watts and shows very healty climb rate on it's Plettenberg Ergo swinging a 20X12 folder on 3S2P 4400 mAh Lipo battery ( pulling 48 amps ). Big geared propellers makes the whole difference on those large glider applications.

chronos333

Feb 06, 2007, 06:28 PM

chronos333

Feb 06, 2007, 06:30 PM

Oh I forgot, am I better to run 4S2P (7400mah) @ 120amps, with a monster prop?
In this case which prop should I run?

tiju000

Feb 06, 2007, 06:32 PM

If I can solve my FLAP Problems... :censored:

Here it how it goes.

The max travel I can expect on the servo side is about 11mm because of my big fat 3421 and I can only use the first hole on the arm.

I played with the offset butterfly and also with subtrim and travel and the max deflection I can achieve is about 45mm on the flap. Mesured with my GreatPlane Deflectometer.

I don't know how you make to have 60mm..... because if I want more travel I need a bigger arm on the servo and then it will not make it wituout making a hole in the cover plate.

By the way what's the max course in degree a standard servo can normaly goes ? is it 90 deg or more ?

chronos333

Feb 06, 2007, 08:33 PM

welcome to the club!
You can overide the travel with EPA (end point adjustments), various combined mixes with buterfly.
However the maximum deflection will be limited by mechanics. I used the second hole on the servo arm, that's maybe part of the answer.
Don't get discouraged. It takes time, lots of time.

tiju000

Feb 06, 2007, 09:43 PM

Yeap Alex,

I think it made all difference. Actually my flaps are hard to bend near the 50mm.

The notice give us a recommended deflection of 46mm.

So after playing a lot and using the 1st hole I'm near the 46mm. I still have travel up and down for the aileron-flap coupling. I can still have 10mm up on my cruise mode.

My problem is that I can offset the neutral of the butterfly landing mode but doing this I have to play with the trim of cruising and takeoff mode to be sure to have the same neutral when I switch from one mode to another and by doing this I lost the travel up I need for the coupling.

So my next task is to carve the inner part of the wing and perhaps I can win 1mm+ so I'll be able to use the 2nd hole.

Daniel Mc Crae

Feb 06, 2007, 10:55 PM

In my case it will be a B50XL 6turns + GB 5.2:1
On either 16GP2000 (15-16V under load) or 6S2P Lipo (19V under load)
With a 16X8 as I didn't want those big mustache on the nose (not like my avatar)
I may change the gear ratio to 6.7:1 and put a 17X9 or 18X10 instead... but I like the way the 16X8 folds (clean/no drag)

The motor is rated for 110 amps and my controller for 120A continuous. I can push 75A max out of the GP's and 100amps max out of the lipos

Thx for your help

Your B50XL with only 6 turns and it's relatively high KV constant (2630) is a very HOT motor. Motocalc shows figures close to 100 amps with your 16X8 prop and more than 220 oz of thrust :eek: on a 6S setup

chronos333

Feb 06, 2007, 11:04 PM

don't you think it's enough?

Daniel Mc Crae

Feb 06, 2007, 11:05 PM

Oh I forgot, am I better to run 4S2P (7400mah) @ 120amps, with a monster prop?
In this case which prop should I run?

You would need a 20 X 12 prop to keep the same thrust figures on only 4S and the current would get closer to 120 amps... This is way too much in my book. Personally, I never pull more than 60 amps from any of my battery pack, no matter how large they are.

Lipo settings are more efficient with an higher tension rather than current proportion. I guess you choose this motor to keep your prop smaller and in fact the 16 X 8 and 6S battery pack makes a better match than the 20 X 12 and only 4S voltage entry.

Daniel Mc Crae

Feb 06, 2007, 11:09 PM

don't you think it's enough?

HEY ! Give me a break :censored:

NOT Enough :confused: Naaahhh A little more and we could call it a space shuttle :rolleyes:

tiju000

Feb 06, 2007, 11:23 PM

Alex,

keep in mind something if you go with Nimh. The batteries must stay warm to give you a good performance. So if you want to build the XL to make some thermal gliding this mean middle long motor burst and after that loooooooooooooooooooooooong thermal gliding. So the batteries will become cold and you loose the "warm advantage".

tiju

chronos333

Feb 07, 2007, 08:11 AM

I know they perform bad at high amps cold. But as you mentionned we will do some loooong thermal gliding, I'll only need to climb once. Moreover I won't fly in winter...

tiju000

Feb 07, 2007, 08:23 PM

I checked something better for my motor.

NEU 1512 2D 2600rpm/v geared 6.7/1 with a 18 x 10 still on my 5s2p give me about 80 amps, 1300W in.... 6300 rpm for a small 227oz of thrust....and whats nice about if is that I can run a 16 x 10 for 55amps 940Win about 6600 rpm for 175 oz

The datas of the 1512 serie is 1200W continuous and 2500W for 30 seconds

Looks great on paper....

chronos333

Feb 08, 2007, 07:53 AM

Should be great in real life also.
You bought yourself a really nice setup

chronos333

Feb 08, 2007, 07:55 AM

I finished the demon,
Here it is:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=602626&page=2

chronos333

Feb 09, 2007, 04:01 PM

Hi Daniel, thanks for the input,

actualy for 500gr lead + 300gr battery (i assume quickly 60gr/cell) one could make it electrified for same AUW. Just a thought.
Jurgen

Ok here is my AUW:
Glider 3600g
Motor+Gearbox+ESC+Prop+Spinner 600g
Battery pack 570g (16GP2000)

AUW 4670g (167oz)

To stay FAI legal for X-country, we have to stay below 5000g. Thus I won't be able to put a 16cells sub-c pack!

Jurgen

Feb 09, 2007, 04:44 PM

Heavy and powerfull, that plane must be like tracking on rails :).Let us know.
Jurgen.

tiju000

Feb 10, 2007, 12:00 AM

Tks for the info Alex,

I'll check carrefully the weight because if I checked all component it give's me

Glider: 3100 gr
Electronic: 235 gr (3 ds368, 3 DS3421, 2HS85 + RX)

For my e-power I got
Controller 100gr
Motor + Gearbox 360gr
Lipo 5s2p 680gr
Prop+Spinner ???

I still need a rx batterie say another 250 gr if I go with some Li-io duralite batteries

4725 gr + glue + soldering + other stuff...

It'll come about the same....

chronos333

Feb 10, 2007, 09:03 AM

I guess we should move this thread from thermal to high performance...

tiju000

Feb 10, 2007, 09:09 AM

Why.... voyons donc Alex...

You call 1200W for a 5kg glider performance :D

It's just security.... :)

Ok can you tell me how many ubec you use and how theyre wired.

tiju000

Feb 10, 2007, 09:39 AM

What torque do you thing is needed for the spoiler.

tiju000

Feb 10, 2007, 10:06 AM

I ask the last question because I'm checking the charge on the battery.

Actually I find the following info for the servos. The data are stalled servo

DS 368 : 555 mAh
DS3421: 750 mAh
HS85 : 975 mAh

I'll have 3 DS 368 and 3 DS3421 and 2 HS85 so worst case scenario give about 5865 mAh + the RX wich is in fact not a lot.

So if I use some Duralite stuff the switch is rated 7.5A

Another way is to go the way like Alex with 2Ubec 3.5A each plugged to the motor battery. The think I don't realy like going this way is the added complexity...in wich you always add possible place for problems. But on the other hand 2ubec= 80gr in exchange of 250gr with li-io solution. But the li-io solution give you some kind of redundency on the battery side ( you still have only one regulator ( because duralite stuf is in fact some kind of ubec transforming the 7.4V to a 6V)

So I'll prepare my stuff with plug for the power on the wing wiring and decide at the end the way I'll go.

chronos333

Feb 10, 2007, 11:11 AM

Ok my setup is fairly simple: 2 independent UBECs each rated 3amps continuous/5amps peak delivering a steady 6V.
1 powers the right wing + elevator + receiver (3 digis +1 hs80 for the load)
1 powers the left wing + rudder (2 digis + 2 non digis) + the eventual dataloging/GPS/video

The UBECS' outputs are not connected in anyway with one another.

I did my own wiring harnesses of silicone wire 18 gauge. I added redundancy at each connection point (DB15 for the center pannel, MPX connectors for the outer pannels).
Redundancy was easy to achieve as each wing shares common + and -.
This was not my first wiring harness but this one was quite a job... a lot of precise soldering/heat shrinking involved. But I am proud of the result, neat and reliable.
By the way, soldering 18 gauge wires neatly to a DB15 is not that easy... plan ahead which one you solder first and where...
FYI, I used all contacts of the DB15 connector

The highest static amp draw is when I engage crows + spoilers at the same time: 1.5amps peak. It should be alot higher in flight though, that's why I let a comfortable margin of safety.

These UBECs can either be fed by the power pack or a separate LIPO pack (like my formosa's power pack) I set things up to have the choice, as I won't power my stuff by using a GP2000pack pushed to 80amps (too close to the limit of these cells for my liking). If runing 4S2P 7400mah, I have not trouble plugging the ubec to the main pack.

Last week, I succeeded in increasing flaps deflection (they now almost drop below the fuse) and TOTALLY eliminated slope out of them by inserting a piece of metal tube in the fiberglass horn. The tube has to have the exact inner diameter and you should cut it to the right length for the clevis.

PS: A UBEC is nothing more than a regulated switching power supply...

tiju000

Feb 10, 2007, 01:08 PM

Here's the way I plan my fuselage installation.

A few points I checked

Rx as far away as possible from the SpeedController
Everything must come out an easy way
Trying to use the wood support just to add some strength to the forward fuselage.
Dont close the door to any battery setting.
Be able to move the big 5s2p for cg adjustment

Actually the pictures are made with the 4500 nimh 5 cells pack but I can fit any "flat long" lipo or li-io pack

I wanted to have some support for the datarecorder

The forward part of the plywood support will also support the back of the motor and all this will be removable with screw.

The servo is a 368 for the rudder
The rx will be installed the same way as Alex with a small light plywood support.

I think I come with something clean.

chronos333

Feb 10, 2007, 09:17 PM

Thierry,

You should try to put your rudder servo elsewhere, check my pics in the former post... I saved the hassle of having the rudder servo in the middle of the fuse

tiju000

Feb 11, 2007, 08:23 AM

Alex,

where did you have to install your battery pack to achieve th right cg ?

tks
Thierry

tiju000

Feb 11, 2007, 08:42 AM

Heres a pic of my yesterday work.

I installed the RX and planified where my cables will run.

I'll bring 2 pairs of cable to power the wing ( one for the left and one for the right wing) At the end of the power cable ( on the left on the pic) I'll solder a 6 pins Multiplex connector to plug this on any battery configuration I'll choose.

I'll connect the rudder/elevator/motor directly to the RX. Perhaps I can finish this today, I let you know.

tiju000

Feb 11, 2007, 07:23 PM

chronos333

Feb 11, 2007, 07:50 PM

Have you hought that you will be draining the load of 2 digis + 1 HS85 servo from only one contact of the DB15. I doubt their contact are enough to withstand 2amps.
What do you think about adinga bit of redudancy for the sake of reliability?

tiju000

Feb 12, 2007, 09:00 AM

Alex,

can you share some wiring ?

The question at the end is to know if all the plug can support the load.... of almoast 5 amps.....

I can certainly bring 4 more power cable to the plug but.....

chronos333

Feb 12, 2007, 11:09 AM

You can just extend the soldering of each power cable to 2 or 3 connectors.
This way on your DB15 you can have 3right +, 3right- , 3left+, 3left-.
This way you lower the resistance
Don't need a scheme for that...

tiju000

Feb 12, 2007, 12:20 PM

The only way I figure out to work with the 15pins is if you share the same 3 pins for the 2 spoiler servos.

2 signals for the 2 servos in the left wing flap and ailerons
2 signals for the 2 servos in the right wing flap and ailerons
2+ for the left wing flap and ailerons
2- for the left wing flap and ailerons
2+ for the right wing flap and ailerons
2- for the right wing flap and ailerons
3 for both spoiler servos.

But still on the spoilers the HS85 stalled is near 975mah so for 2 servos is almoast 2amps...

chronos333

Feb 12, 2007, 12:48 PM

FYI I had 5 signals as the reverser for the spoileirs installed in the wing in my case. and did 2+- for one wing 3 for the other. But you don't need to know that as it doesn't apply to you.

Anyway, you have kept a copy of the diagram 2 months ago anyway

Daniel Mc Crae

Feb 12, 2007, 09:15 PM

Here's the plug I prepared today for the fuselage.

The yellow wrap contain the 6 signals comming from the RX

I use the top row of the plug for the right wing and the bottom one ( 9 to 15) for the left wing so in the wing it'll be easy to wire (no crossing cable)

I have power on the 1&2 and 14&15 plug

This is very good in my book 2 pins for power and 2 pins for ground is enough.
You will never stall all your servos in the same moment :rolleyes:

Myself, I'll be using only a 9 pins connector and use the metal casing itself as the second ground cable connector, for a total of 10 connections

tiju000

Feb 12, 2007, 09:29 PM

yes but as we use a 15 pins connectors why not use all pins.

So bypassing 2 pins for each + and - and using 4 pins on one side 4 on the other one and 6 signals is not bad.

chronos333

Feb 12, 2007, 09:44 PM

To summarize, you are both right:
You will never stall all of your servos at the same time, but why don't you use all the pins, It will increase both performance and reliability at no cost

tiju000

Feb 18, 2007, 10:54 AM

Here are a few pics of my fuselage installation.

The plywood support is fixed with 6 screws and is movable for maintenance.

I move the servo under the RX. Under the support come a 3s1p 2100 lipo ( only 145 gr) with a regulator installed on the right of the servo but under the support. So with this installation all power wires for the rx and servos are short.

I can play with the position of the 5s2p for the cg ajustement.

The controller is a Castle Creation 110 amps wich is far to big as Motocalc give me about 70 amps with a 18x9 pulling near 1000W.

tiju000

Feb 24, 2007, 05:24 PM

here's the last version of my Fuselage wiring harness.

Everything is redundent exept for the RX plug and all signals.

I dont know if it'll work but actually if a Deans plug fail I still have current everywhere on the harness. I made a Y on the RX plug and this is why I have current everywhere. In fact it's pretty the same as connecting 2 battery plug in the RX.

On the deans side I let the door open to any battery configuration. 2 ubec's on the motor battery or some kind of Duralite Regulator on a LIPO RX battery or UBEC's on a RX battery or the easy way just connecting a 5 cells nimh...

I made some tests and I dont have any short cut in the systems.

Do you have any suggestions or comment I'm not sure if I mist something..

Daniel Mc Crae

Feb 24, 2007, 07:00 PM

Nice job buddy.

Daniel Mc Crae

Feb 24, 2007, 07:07 PM

Ok final assembly and balance made this afternoon.

No F3J thermal contest plane here for sure but should be a blast at Cape Cod in May and at Leclerville this summer.

Very nice and VERY strong aircraft but NOT light. Scale shows 4.692 kg to which I must remove 375g for the wooden balancing stand.... 4692-375= 4.3 kg AUW :eek:

Should fly fast and cover a lot of ground :D

Daniel Mc Crae

Feb 24, 2007, 07:52 PM

How much are your electric boosted versions are weighting in ? :confused:

I guess very close to my own AUW... :o

tiju000

Feb 24, 2007, 11:22 PM

It's way not finished but I expect something near 4800gr with the Neu motor, the 5s2p wich is about 700gr and a small 2200mah 2s1p for the RX.

chronos333

Feb 25, 2007, 11:46 AM

mine is 4670g (167oz)

soholingo

Mar 19, 2007, 12:45 AM

If you are in the US I have one of these for sale. Mine is just like the ones in this thread, they have the canopies, glass/kevlar fuse and the carbon dbox in the wing.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=658928

(not sure if I am crapping on a thread, if I am let me know and I will remove this post.)

chronos333

Mar 19, 2007, 07:24 AM

No trouble for the thread.
How did you get the canopy fuse? They're hard to get...
Why do you want to sell it? You seemed fine with your purchase?
Last but not least, ours are not carbon D-Box, the whole skin is carbon and the fuse is made of a carbon/kevlar rowing

soholingo

Mar 19, 2007, 08:57 AM

I would like to keep it, but I have had it for over a year and I have no place to fly it. Its a shame its just sitting here. I got this version in a trade, with the thought that I would make it an electrick

And yes I KNOW the canopy is hard to get, Its a rare bird at a good price.

Jay

chronos333

Mar 19, 2007, 01:38 PM

Jay,
My point is that you should keep it, I know you fly hotliners... and if you have enough space to fly a hotliner, you have enough for her...
If you still want to sell it, PM me your price I might know someone probably interested.
What's your paint scheme like?

soholingo

Mar 19, 2007, 01:41 PM

chronos333

Apr 08, 2007, 10:24 PM

Hi,

As promised I keep you all posted.
I maidened it today with a 16 GP2000 flight pack and a 4XGP2000 rx pack.
The weight was around 4.8-5kg.
It flys like a dream, no bad habits at all, I got the cg right (neutral) from the first flight (its the first time it happens to me but I read other threads on rcgroups on this glider). Although I may try something more rearward for thermaling...
The only adjustments needed were:
- Ailerons (2 clicks right) + a bit of expo and less throw.
- Elevator (1 click cown) I needed 8% down elevator on crow+spoilers. I needed down elevator @ full throttle.
Everything was dialed in for the 2nd flight.

The way it flys is really really close to a real one. It is no floater although it slows down really nicely with a bit of flaps. Thermic turns can be really tights, no tip stalls.... to sum it up a really nice plane to fly.
High speed runs are trully impressive: It eats a lot of sky fast. It is really fast and stiff, believe me as I am not easily impressed. You have to be carefull as you have a lot to anticipate with such toys.
Roll rate is great (keeping in mind that it's not a 60 incher). I didn't tried to do some aerobatics yet, but I am confident that 4 points rolls will be achievable.

Landing is great, I was happy to have the spoilers... I know understand why Jurgen insisted on us having them. They are mandatory at such a weight.
Climb rate is good (1100W) but I may try a 6S setup. Currently it takes 20-30sec to be at winch height, it climbs at a consistent 45degrees.

More to follow,

Alex

cvanscho

Jun 04, 2007, 10:30 AM

Alex,

Any more to report on the XL?

:) Chris

chronos333

Jun 05, 2007, 07:32 AM

Not much time these days between work, cape cod trip, studies, a newly imported car...

However, I did 3 more flights with various cg in windy conditions. The cg previously posted there are trully optimal. More rearward: the glider turns to be a floater.
Even at 5kg, the glider is a bit light for very windy conditions (not that I am used to flying bricks but...).

I am still amazed of the long legs it has... impressive
I am lauching it without help now. It is to me the maximum size I would want to launch alone safely.
Landing is a non event.
All in all, it is one of the easiest glider I ever had fly.
Daniel took some videos of mine, I am waiting for him to post them.
Yesterday Thierry came to work (we are coworkers) with his to maiden it, but the weather was rainy...

What kind if report you are looking for?
Cause we plan on putting some telemetry really soon to adjust flap settings for optimal glide ratio, minimum sink rate, X country cruising, etc...

Daniel Mc Crae

Jun 27, 2007, 09:53 PM

What a day we had in Leclercville on the St-Laurent river last Friday and God, what a wonderful slope machine the XL makes :) Those full carbon versions can be put into any high speed aerobatics without any noticeable flex on the wings, they fly INVERTED with very little elevator-to-flap mixing and are remarkably stable while on their back. With a little aileron-to-flap mixing its rolling rate is also quite fast. What a blast making high speed passes along the ridge then turn away for a fast 1 1/2 roll to inverted and a half loop while retaining close to 80 % of the manoeuvre entry speed... This aircraft is aerodynamically clean believe me ! :D

chronos333

Jun 28, 2007, 08:40 AM

cool!
Amazing pics
I am willing to go there saturday... Dan ready?

chronos333

Aug 07, 2007, 12:54 PM

Hi look at these... I am 6'3
I will install the eagletree stuff in a near future

chillybee

Jan 18, 2008, 05:41 PM

I'd like to know how I can get my hands on one of those nice Thermik XL fuselages with the removable canopy. It doesn't seem as if any of the hobby shops in Europe I've emailed has heard anything about them...that or they just don't like to return emails. Any information from you guys would be greatly appreciated.

jbeanelliott

Jan 19, 2008, 06:08 AM

Back in 2005 I was told the Thermik XL fuselage style with the hatch (as opposed to the nose cone style) was only available from the German dealer Juergen Schmierer who supposedly had an exclusive deal with Valenta on this fuselage style. In 2005, I was able to order one of these hatched fuselages through Michael Tetzner of MT models in the USA who had an arrangement with Schmierer for obtaining Valenta products. Unfortunately I believe Mr. Tetzner has discontinued his business.

Below is Juergen Schmierer's website.
http://www.schmierer-modellbau.com/1-2web-xhtml/index.htm

Although his website indicates he is no longer in business, below is Michael Tetzner's website (MT models, Inc.).
www.mkrusa.com

-John Elliott

I'd like to know how I can get my hands on one of those nice Thermik XL fuselages with the removable canopy. It doesn't seem as if any of the hobby shops in Europe I've emailed has heard anything about them...that or they just don't like to return emails. Any information from you guys would be greatly appreciated.

tiju000

Jan 22, 2008, 09:24 PM

Hi guys,

when we bought ours in 2006 we search a lot of time if any went available direct in the US/Canada.

Without real succes so at the end we made a special order directly from Jurgen. In fact we order the one with a looooot of carbon and also some special painting on the wings.

I can just say that the Jurgen's sevice was really nice.

We had to wait almoast 6 months but the wait was really a good choice. Because those are really top quality. I dont remember how much we payed for the shipping perhaps Alex as some souvenir.

tiju

chronos333

Jan 23, 2008, 09:21 AM

I don't remember exactly what was the shipping charge but it is the same whether you buy 1 or 4 planes.
Jurgen sent them via Nipon express.
We dealt a global price for the 3 planes shipping included...
Salut tiju... on se tel sous peu...

dbonamusa

Mar 31, 2008, 03:54 AM

hello!! y just reading the post about thermic, i'm configuring one of these, with

new drive kontonik kira 6000(1000w) and jive 80lv + 5sp 18x11prop. i a good combination for a power climbs? :confused: ??

In valenta website talking about 3800grms in electric version, but yours models is about 4800????? :eek:

thanks!!!

chronos333

Apr 02, 2008, 07:45 PM

ours is a special reinforced version that's why

annihilator

Apr 04, 2008, 05:13 AM

talking about power consumption for a ~5 KG glider..... I flew one on 52 watts at 4950g :)

dbonamusa

Apr 05, 2008, 03:07 AM

ok, chronos!! mine is in my hands!!! is a full carbon version without airbrakes and is really big!!:D (but a friend buy th xxxl -bigger!!!!)

the empty weithg is 2,500kg and about 1k for the propulsion and 400 for radio.... :rolleyes: abot 3900-4000grms on air...

Hitec85mg(3.5kg torque) is good for elevator? :confused:

250w for kg is good?

thanks!!