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balsabozo
Jan 01, 2007, 07:13 PM
Hello folks,
And happy new year!
I don’t lurk in this forum often although I probably should. Ive been a slope junkie the last few months.

I have a question which I have fielded amongst my fellow local club members and I want to solicit more opinions and options: What is a good newbie 2nd thermal plane? Ive seen some posts along this line, but wanted opinions given my experience and desires (sorry for protracted ramble…)

I am a novice pilot since spring 2006. To date my experience has been
- at least 1x/wk out on field/slope
- summer: primarily flatfielding with my self-built Gentle Lady
- since fall, primarily sloping with a red herring, easyglider, and Arthobby falco (60” aileroned v-tail, pretty sweet and fun!)

I am not a natural although I am not a complete kluzt. The GL is cake to fly for me now, although occasionally (and less and less so) I get disoriented when head-on or too far away. I can generally land it to within say 10-20’ of where I want it.
I have had some hard lessons, as of late esp with a 100” Hobie Hawk which does not seem to be a good fit at this time – too unstable, hard to land, and just plane bad luck! I have a Super Hawk (RES) which was going to be my next plane until Tony Johnson decided NOT to do serial runs on this model (so no spare parts!) – it sits now in storage untouched until I get more experienced.

I use an Aerofoam 2m competition high start or the club winch which I do gentle taps with (haven’t learned zoom starts yet, no reason to). I have a JR 8103 which I know pretty well how to program except full houses. I don’t mind doing repairs, infact they are kinda fun once I’m over the grieving.
I’d like to get a crunchy that I can repair easy or a current production model that has available spare fiberglass/carbon/kevlar/wood parts.

My line of thinking: I want a RES or REF floater, >100” span. I don’t think full house is the way to go at this time, well perhaps if it were a 2m. I know I would still ding such a plane though often and badly.

I have limited my spending on this to <$800

So:
What are characteristics to consider when comparing RES vs REF? Seems to me that with a REF you could dial in some reflex and have something more versatile. People though really advocate a RES but I haven’t heard rationale for this except perhaps that spoilers are more effective at reducing lift and getting a plane down in a hurry.

Planes that have been suggested and I am considering:
Ava or AvaF – seem too delicate, esp pod/boom design. Otherwise HIGHLY regarded.
Mini-Ava – 100” version. Should I consider this 1 instead to be more conservative?
Big bird – my basement is undergoing renovations so I cant do expansive builds, may not be option unless ARF (yes, there was a beautiful ARF Bird up for sale that I know I probably shouldve gone for).
Soprano – seems more solid but (hence) heavier vs the Ava and Bigbird.
Arthobby 3m RES lineup – Ive heard the polyhedral on these are very weak and not very good to winch, otherwise the price/parts aspect is right on!

Any advice? (from experienced veterans or like-minded newbies only please!)

Ollie
Jan 01, 2007, 07:35 PM
Think about improving your thermal skills not about equpment. Build a better GL or a Marauder. See:
http://www.mmglidertech.com/marauder.html

schrederman
Jan 01, 2007, 07:54 PM
I just got back from a cold flying session, flying my Sky Bird... and it flys well, even in almost 0 lift... If you can wait, the Houston Hawk will be out shortly. The Sky Bird / Big Bird are good options. If you must buy an ARF because of your basement, I've heard good stuff about the Soprano, and of course there's the AVA. If there's any way to build, you might consider the Scepter from Mountain Models / Laser Arts. Again if you can wait, he may have the Yardbird out by late spring... I'm building the prototype fuselage and tails, now.

Jack Womack

Freakflyin
Jan 01, 2007, 09:14 PM
I'll be the devils advocate here and suggest a nice inexpensive ARF. NSP has the Renny. A full house, two meter, tap it up the line molded D tube sailplane. ...and they're inexpensive(for an ARF).
http://www.nesail.com/detail.php?productID=1185&PHPSESSID=32e4242e22e6776decafe832bf6119c9

Thought it might be an nice way into full house thermal sailplanes...

Mike

..and if you'd like a nice article on programming the 8103 for a 6 servo sailplane, send me your email address and I'll get it to you...

bobby legue
Jan 02, 2007, 07:10 AM
And again I will promote the SKYBENCH OLY lll. BIG, very strong, very capable flying plane, not at all hard to build. No bad habits. Goes fast. Goes slow. Includes the 3014 airfoil. Has the added dimention of flaps and or spoilers so it will take you another step in your flying training. Its all laser cut wood, nothing else, so it could be repaired from anybodys balsa scrap box. Now the best part, its 150 bucks. So for 30 dollars worth of monocote and 15 dollars worth of epoxy and wood glue you have a 3 meter plane that you will fall in love with and will help you grow as a pilot. Take a look at the SKYBENCH web site.
Did I mention that It is under 200 bucks? Now if by chance you havent heard of the Oly lll and decide to investigate a little further by searching for " improvements, modifications, and upgrades to strengthin" for this plane---- you wont find any. None are needed. Period.
Good luck in your search,
Bob

P.S. I would encourage you to do a search on Ray Hayes. We modelers love him, his products, and his super service.

aeajr
Jan 02, 2007, 09:13 AM
When I read these kinds of posts I try to understand the pilot more than the plane.

Sounds like you feel more comfortable with built up designs than some kind of molded or bagged wing design because you know how to fix it.

And it sounds like you would prefer a build over an ARF.

And you would perfer RES over full house.


If this will be primarily a thermal ship then I would say your next plane should be a 3M. They fly better than 2M and you can see them further out so you can chase that lift longer. They are no harder to launch and the wings come apart so they are easy to transport and store. In fact they are shorter than a 1 piece GL wing.

Add that up and I get an EZ Bubble Dancer from Polecat
http://polecataero.com/products/ezbd

Fits all your preferences, not a hard build, RES and all reports say it flies great! Should be able to handle a strong winch launch and wil let you range out further, yet will be a floater like you GL. Add some ballast and it will handle stronger winds or some great slope flights, if you have a good landing area.

Kit is $350 shipped. Figure $200 for electroncis and you are within your budget with room to spare. Leaves money toward that next plane.

At 40-45 ounces, your hi-start will send it up beautifully.

If you want a built-up 3.2 M ARF then the AVA would be my recommendation
http://www.kennedycomposites.com

$680, the plane is based on the original bubble dancer design. Very popular. At 40-45 ounces, your hi-start will handle it fine!


Full House 3M

Now, if you are ready to go full house, and I think you are, then I will suggest another Polecat plane, the Polecat Thermal Dancer. This is a 3.1 M, full house plane that finishes at 55-60 ounces. It is an easy build and will handle full pedal launches on the winch. I had never built a composite plane before but this build is very very easy.

This is a bagged wing design. I could finish one in a weekend now, if I was doing a second one. The wing comes fully finished. Just wire it and add the servos. I have already had to do a couple of repairs and the wing was easy to fix.

Your 8103 has plenty of mixing to handle the plane.

The Thermal Dancer flies like a big DLG. Stable, light in the air and those big flaps will stop it nicely on landing. A great fun flyer or contest worthy, if you want to give those a try. At $650, with Hitec HS-85MGs all around and you are still be close to your budget.

At 55-60 ounces it should launch on your 2M hi-start.

One addition that you will want is the V skeg from www.superskeg.com. Protects the flaps on landing. - $7 shipped

I love my TD and another club member just ordered one after flying mine a few times. The EZBD calls to me. Someday!

Either way the EZBD or the TD would be my recommendtions for 3M planes.

2M - 2.5M

If you want to stick with smaller light 2M planes:

The Mini-AVA at 100 inches would be a great RES ARF
http://www.kennedycomposites.com

I like the RENNY ARF full house. Might get one myself.
http://www.nesail.com/detail.php?productID=1185

Or

The Organic - 2 or 2.5M planes - Full house
http://www.kennedycomposites.com

Hope one of these catches your attention.

Andy W
Jan 02, 2007, 09:39 AM
.. or a hand-launch. You'll learn more in an afternoon than you will in a couple of months..
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=583972
..a

rdwoebke
Jan 02, 2007, 10:26 AM
Ava or AvaF – seem too delicate, esp pod/boom design. Otherwise HIGHLY regarded.
Mini-Ava – 100” version. Should I consider this 1 instead to be more conservative?

I would stay away from the 100 inch Ava. Same price and unless you needed the 100 inch thing for some class or transport limitation, I'd just go with regular Ava.

I think you are underestimating how tough an Ava is. I have not owned one, but have built the original design it was based on, the Bubble Dancer. That is one tough bird... That tiny pod and boom might look fragile, but it is really not.

BTW, I too am a Herring fan and have thermaled mine many times over the years.

Oh, and based on what you have flown and your comfort level, I'd second the suggestion of the Oly III kit... Or a Paragon kit if you could find one....

Good luck,

Ryan

Andy W
Jan 02, 2007, 11:04 AM
The pod and boom may look fragile because the model is simply so huge. They are more than sturdy enough for the task.

The only negative I can throw out for the AVA is the poor mount for the horizontal stab/elevator. It's retained by a single nut that threads onto a VERY short length of threaded rod, simply glued into (or molded as a part of) the mount. Mine pulled straight out while installing the tail one day - thank goodness it occurred then, not in-flight!

I've since received feedback from others who confirmed this same problem, and remedied this by installing a longer piece of rod, with a nut on the bottom end, secured with glue or loctite..
..a

regis
Jan 02, 2007, 11:59 AM
Your budget provides a many choices. Here are some to check out.

Blizzard-DX 2.4m F5J R.E.S. Electro or Thermal Glider
http://www.nfmodels.com/blizzard.html

Addiction Thermal Duration Glider ARF I would jump on this if still available
http://www.rcuniverse.com/market/item.cfm?itemId=247540

Sailaire (ARC) You can make an offer for it.
http://www.rcuniverse.com/market/item.cfm?itemId=249917

For Sale - Addiction & Jim bag I think this is sold - too good to last.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=617281

Enigma 2M If you like this, I will sell a NIB shipped for $320
http://www.nesail.com/detail.php?productID=1184

Finally, If none of the above seem appropriate, I have:
A NIB Compulsion for $600.
A Chicago Style RES for $450.
An original Mantis for $550 (because of the V tail, difficult to ship).

Regis regis@computer.org