Hyperion Yak 54 85", 12S (4000Watt) - Build (video added)

[Tor-DK]

I have just started building a Hyperion Yak 54 in the new 85" (216 cm wingspan) version. I am aiming for a ready to fly weight of less than 15.5 lbs or 7 kgs.

So far it has been hinged and all surfaces sealed with clear ultracote. All fiber rudder horns has been installed. Just started mounting servos in the wings.

Servos will be Hitec 5945 except for the rudder which will be an 5955.

Here are a few pic.

[flyarmy58]

What a monster! should be very exciting :D

[Tor-DK]

I will use the Hyperion Z5045-B18 motor and 12S 90A Opto ESC:

[Tor-DK]

Weight is looking very promising. I assembled the model with wings and stabs. Including the 2 servos I already installed in the wings the weight is 7 lbs 3 oz (3.24 kg).

[Tor-DK]

Some progress....

[blucor basher]

Looks great...get some flight video!

[oy9203]

Hi

Here is a video with a Hyperion Yak 85"
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6564919&postcount=40

[Tor-DK]

Regulator installed...

[Tor-DK]

HS 5955 in place and pull-pull done...

[SD_Raptor]

Tor,

Where did you buy your plane?

Randy
(envious in San Diego)

[Tor-DK]

Hi Randy

I'm in Denmark, Europe - just edited my profile to show. I suggest you contact the US distributor for dealers, which is Empire Hobby according to http://www.hyperion.hk/distlist.htm

[Tor-DK]

Got a little more work done...

Emcotec in now installed, still missing the receiver batteries - I'll see if they need to be moved around for CG.

Just finished one of the stabs. There are double phenolic horns on all surfaces.

[SD_Raptor]

Got a little more work done...

Emcotec in now installed, still missing the receiver batteries - I'll see if they need to be moved around for CG.

Just finished one of the stabs. There are double phenolic horns on all surfaces.

Very nice! Good pics also. I think you can get another 5 degrees of elevator throw ;)

Can't wait until we get this plane over here.

Randy

[Tor-DK]

Very nice! Good pics also. I think you can get another 5 degrees of elevator throw ;)

Thanks :) You don't think 60 degs are enough? You are very gready, LOL :D

Here are a few more pics:

Link to thead on charger http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=609445

[Tor-DK]

The weather has been lousy for the last few weeks, so the motivation to get done went down (yes I know that's when you should be building). Today the sun was shining (although very windy), so I thought I better get it ready.

I have reduced the cowl intake in order to better guide the airflow over the motor. This is not permanent yet - want to see what impact is has on driveline temperature.

I am thinking about opening the front of the oilcooler (the black square), but will wait and see at first. They way I am thinking... First, it would give direct cooling of the regulator. And second, I think the it may give greater venturi effect of the rest of the cowl. Not sure about the second point though.

[SD_Raptor]

I have reduced the cowl intake in order to better guide the airflow over the motor. This is not permanent yet - want to see what impact is has on driveline temperature.
.


Tor,

With what material did you make the baffle in the front of the cowling? It looks like Depron perhaps. It looks quite nice. How do you attach it inside?

Looking forward to you getting good weather and your flight report and (we all hope) video.

It must be tough not being able to fly on a regular basis. If I don't fly for two weeks, I feel rusty.

Randy

[Rodders]

Thats one huge motor!!!!

[Tor-DK]

Randy, that's correct. It's 3 mm depron, it has been temporarily mounted with fiberglass tape (hope it holds up). If the motor doesn't mind with regards to temperature, I will glass to the cowl on the back or maybe make up something else.

Rodders, the motor is 890 grams or 31.5 oz. :)

[SD_Raptor]

Randy, that's correct. It's 3 mm depron, it has been temporarily mounted with fiberglass tape (hope it holds up). If the motor doesn't mind with regards to temperature, I will glass to the cowl on the back or maybe make up something else.

Rodders, the motor is 890 grams or 31.5 oz. :)

Tor,

Interesting idea. Very little weight was added and you achieved a nice clean look. And if it really does help with motor cooling, then it would seem to be a 'must-have' modification. when I get my 120 sized bird dialed in and get some good solid data, then I will probaby give this a try. I wonder if it would also help with braking on the down-lines?

Hope you have some nice weather soon!

Randy

[Tor-DK]

Maiden flight completed today in quite a lot of wind. End AUW 16.3 lbs og 7.4 kg. 1 lbs more than originally estimated due to the decision of using an Emcotec RV mini, dual receiver batteries and some mods, such as larger wheels for our rought winter grass strips, also added a spinner.

In the winds today, 8 m/s or 20 mph( is that what you are using overseas?), I whished it would have been 4 lbs heavier! :D

Not a lot of fun, but since we need approval for models above 7 kg in Denmark, it was nice to get it done.

[SD_Raptor]

Tor-DK - CONGRATULATIONS!

You are much braver than me -no way I would try to maiden if winds above 4-5 m/s, even with a big plane.

At 7.4 kg the wing loading, especially the cubic wing loading, is quite low. You must have landed with nearly zero ground speed.

Looking forward to some video ona day when the winds a re lower.

Randy

[kmp647]

Maiden flight completed today in quite a lot of wind. End AUW 16.3 lbs og 7.4 kg. 1 lbs more than originally estimated due to the decision of using an Emcotec RV mini, dual receiver batteries and some mods, such as larger wheels for our rought winter grass strips, also added a spinner.

In the winds today, 8 m/s or 20 mph( is that what you are using overseas?), I whished it would have been 4 lbs heavier! :D

Not a lot of fun, but since we need approval for models above 7 kg in Denmark, it was nice to get it done.

I am having throttle issues on my Z5045/18 hyp 90 12s setup.
Stutters on quick throttle up

can you tell me if you had any of this, and also the settings you programmed on your controller via the emeter.

Thank you

Kevin

[NumbSkull]

Great looking build!!

Did you reverse the motor shaft? Or does it come setup like that? If you reversed it, did you have any trouble doing so?

[SD_Raptor]

I am having throttle issues on my Z5045/18 hyp 90 12s setup.
Stutters on quick throttle up

can you tell me if you had any of this, and also the settings you programmed on your controller via the emeter.

Thank you

Kevin

Kevin,

I had similar probelms with a Z4025 with Titan 90 ESC. It is likely a firmware issue in the controller. Castle recently released new firmware for their controllers that fixes their problems with large high inductance outrunners. Several people at our field using Castle ESCs notice a definite improvement in throttle behavior. Not sure how to upgrade the Titans or if it is even possible.

Randy

[kmp647]

Kevin,

I had similar probelms with a Z4025 with Titan 90 ESC. It is likely a firmware issue in the controller. Castle recently released new firmware for their controllers that fixes their problems with large high inductance outrunners. Several people at our field using Castle ESCs notice a definite improvement in throttle behavior. Not sure how to upgrade the Titans or if it is even possible.

Randy

Thank you, I dont think the controller can have its software changed

I am going to try a spin99, even though its a huge chunka change!

[kmp647]

Great looking build!!

Did you reverse the motor shaft? Or does it come setup like that? If you reversed it, did you have any trouble doing so?

The motor he is using is the new z504518B

its a special backmount version with built in cooling fan!

not avail yet, but will be on the next shipment to the US dist

www.allerc.com

[Tor-DK]

I have only had it out flying twice, but I am experience stutter on quick throtte up at times too. I am going to look into it.

One thing I will try is to put a slight delay on the throttle in my transmitter, as accelleration speed can't be set in the ESC at this time. What kind of transmitter are you using Kevin?

[kmp647]

I am using a hitec optic, it does not have the throttle delay, or curve.

Huh , maybe Hyperion can look into the controller software?

according to another experienced ezoner Jocke, it could damage the motor,controller, or both!

I will tell ou I tried all the settings on the emeter, and nothing prevented it.

your trick on the transmitter throttle delay may work.

Let me know , thank you

[Tor-DK]

I think it will work as a quickfix, since it will be just like advancing the throttle just slow enought for the motor to keep up. Just had a look at your thread, did you try some other props? The ESC is working flawlessly in other applications, so maybe it's just this specific prop combination that is causing the problem. Actually, this prop is a bit above the motor specs, which suggests a max peak of 70A. The 24x12 APC-E loads it up to 80-90A.

Now I am power hungry, so I would rather use the throttle fix than stepping down to a 22x10 APC-E. :D I am sure the motor doesn't mind the 80-90A for the short periodes of time that I am in this range anyway.

Here are some pics from last sunday.

[kmp647]

I thought of cutting down the prop slightly to say 23x12.

next step down is a 22x12

you are right the prop is well above the recomended 22x10 on 12s

great pics!

[flypilot]

Just wanted to share with you folk my friends plane that I am buliding for him as well...


This is from production model #0002.

.

[Tor-DK]

Hi Flypilot

I was fortunate to get a spare from a smaller batch that was shipped in advance for demo purposes.

Looks like there were a few changes from mine? Like painted gear and clear canopy. I kind of like the frosted look my canopy has when it's airborne, as it make the silouette more pronounced. But a clear canopy looks better on the ground in my oppinion.

Be carefull with the small axels and main wheels if flying from a rough stip. This is the only thing I changed from stock as my strip is quite rough, especially this time a year.

[Jocke]

Nice to have a motor with same color cheme as the plane ! :)

[flypilot]

If it were my plane I would tint the canopy slightly black, that always looks a lot better in my opinion..

Will keep an eye on the gear, but at this time of the year it will mostly be flying from frozen lakes, ie. pretty smooth surface :) You know, we still have snow up here in the north ;)

[Tor-DK]

Actually, when looking closer at the pictures of your hardware, it looks like they upgraded the axles, mine were much more flimsy. I see the kit also includes fiber servoarms?

[flypilot]

JEpp, It does, I don't know why they sent that along since using single plates with ball links is not a good idea...you have to have support on both sides in my opinion to use fiberplates with ball links...like on the controlhorns...

So I just swaped them with good old fashion bling horns...SWB style ;)

I must say that this plane just falls togheter by itself almost, the amount of prefabrication and overall quality of the kit is outstanding...Hyperion in my opinion is one of the best manufacturers of ARFs today...I mean the fuselage is simply artwork when it comes to the structure. I realy enjoy studing the prescision that went into designing these planes...I have allready owned 3 Hyperion models before this one and there will be more Hyperion planes in my future that is for sure... Two thumbs up :)

[go-flight]

Hi all,

We have noticed the reports some of you have made with regard to the Hyperion 12S 90A controller, and an issue of the motor stalling when accellerated swiftly in high amp setups.

In the past few days, we have attempted to reproduce this occurance using similar setups as the ones you guys use - Z5045, 12S and amps in the 80'ies induced by a large prop.

We are able to reproduce on all controllers we have tried from stock.

In an attempt to 3D optimize the accelleration performance of the Hyperion HV controllers, we have gone too far. We are looking into options of how to remedy this short term, and several options seem possible.

In any case, we have decided to offer a replacement to a new controller with updated firmware to all current owners of the Hyperion 12S 90A as soon as we can. Practical details will follow shortly.

Our ingeneers are already assigned to the task of working on our firmware, and we will report back in this and other threads once we have a good time estimate.

In the meantime, please do not run out and buy another expensive controller - we will take care of you in this matter.

Gudmund Olsson
Hyperion Europe

[feathermerchant]

What great service!

[Coastwatcher]

I agree!!!!! Amazing feedback and customer appreciation :)

[Jocke]

Nice :)

[flypilot]

Maiden completed, Everthing went well, except for a little bit rearward cg. It fealt real light on the wings.

[Jocke]

Congrats to your maiden succes! nice photos.

Me wants a Hyperion YAK :)

[Tor-DK]

Nice pics, Flypilot :)

I got 3 more flights with mine today aswell. Again it was 8 m/s winds (17 mph), but now that I am getting to know it, it didn't feel like a problem. Despite the low weight it handles wind very well. And it's really a stabile model, post stalled flight is effortless.

[SD_Raptor]

Maiden completed, Everthing went well, except for a little bit rearward cg. It fealt real light on the wings.

Flypilot,

Congrats! Looks a bit cold for a San Diego dude. The pictures are fantastic - congrats to the photographer as well.

Tor - glad to hear you have some more successful flights. Once you get accustomed to these planes (I have the 74 inch) you will be thrilled with the precision of the handling. I have been flying mine less than two months and placed second in our local EMAC competition in basic division - like IMAC but electrics only with pattern planes allowed. Got beat by a pattern plane flown by Steve Neu (sandbagging it).

The electric-only aerobatics competitin has realy caught on here - to read more see

http://www.teamflyingcirkus.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=56

The organizer, Steve Dente (thanks Steve!!) prodded many of us to learn aerobatics as a way to improve our overaall flying skills. Yesterday's mini-meet had 25 pilots - 8 or nine in Sportsman class and the rest of us beginners in Basic. If you want to become more precise, practicing to compete in aerobatics is a great way.

Looking for more pics and videos of the new larger Hyperion Yak - I'm already thinking about what my next plane should be. The new 88 inch Extreme Flight Yak looks nice as well.

Randy

[Tor-DK]

Hi Randy
Yes I had the 74 inch last year, untill I flew the batteries empty over a buttomless pit (well almost buttomless - fell down a 600 feet deep gravel pit).

If you like the 74 inch, you'll enjoy the 85" even more. It basicly flies the same (same control input to make it do the maneuvers), but is more stabile due to the size.

[SD_Raptor]

Hi Randy
Yes I had the 74 inch last year, untill I flew the batteries empty over a buttomless pit (well almost buttomless - fell down a 600 feet deep gravel pit).

If you like the 74 inch, you'll enjoy the 85" even more. It basicly flies the same (same control input to make it do the maneuvers), but is more stabile due to the size.

Tor,

Aahh - I see ;) To get a new plane 'accidentally' crash the old one :D

I suppose the electronics would all transfer over easily....

Just need a bigger motor, and batts.

Maybe, I'll wait one more contest before upgrading again. That new Extreme Flight 88 inch Yak-54 look pretty attractive too.

Randy

[Tor-DK]

I would recommend Hitec HS5945 for all surfaces (HS5955 for rudder) or equivalent on the 85". On the Yak 54 120 HS5625 will do. But anyway after a 600 feet drop, there wasn't much left that was useable. Quite a shame, had more than 100 flights on it, including one without the ailerons connected - managed to get it down without a scratch due to the excellent knife-edge and harrier capabilities - actually thought it was almost impregnable after that experience... and yet a stupid mistake and incredibly bad timing caught up on it.

Yes the EF 88" looks good too, but it is a lot bigger than this one, altough there is only 3 inch difference in the wingspan. Someone posted a picture on RCU, the EF fuse is actually bigger than an SD Model 33%. Don't know what electric powersetup would be appropriate. Also it would be an object for conversion as it's made for gas.

[SD_Raptor]

I would recommend Hitec HS5945 for all surfaces (HS5955 for rudder) or equivalent on the 85". On the Yak 54 120 HS5625 will do. But anyway after a 600 feet drop, there wasn't much left that was useable. Quite a shame, had more than 100 flights on it, including one without the ailerons connected - managed to get it down without a scratch due to the excellent knife-edge and harrier capabilities - actually thought it was almost impregnable after that experience... and yet a stupid mistake and incredibly bad timing caught up on it.

Yes the EF 88" looks good too, but it is a lot bigger than this one, altough there is only 3 inch difference in the wingspan. Someone posted a picture on RCU, the EF fuse is actually bigger than an SD Model 33%. Don't know what electric powersetup would be appropriate. Also it would be an object for conversion as it's made for gas.

Tor,

Must take along time to fall 600 feet - well maybe not. Gut wrenching either way.

I've got 5985MG all the way around on the 74 inch Yak - thinking ahead for the inevitable move up in size. Probably need a second for the rudder on the 85 inch and up and run on 6V instead of 5V.

The problem over here is that the 88in EF is available to order but the 85in Hyperion still is not offically announced (are you listening Nippon Dave???). If the 88 EFis that big, it might not even fit in my Ford Explorer. I can always dream. It would be kinda cool to have all three Hyperion Yak-54s.

The 74 will do for now unless I get a sponsor for the EMAC series to subsidize moving up in size.

Looking forward to more flight reports and some video - your daya will son be longer than ours.

Randy

[kmp647]

The big yak is out , complete with z504518b motor and hyp 90 12s esc

http://www.allerc.com/product_info.php?products_id=2900

[Tor-DK]

Tor,
Must take along time to fall 600 feet - well maybe not. Gut wrenching either way.
It was into a gravel pit/hole in the ground (UK term? - quarry in the US perhaps?). So all I saw was it disappearing below the horizon, didn't even hear a thing. The field is on the edge of this quarry and I was lining up for landing and then the batteries went dry 30 feet out. My stupid mistake was not lowering the timer, since I had just swiched from Z5025 to Z4045.

Anyway, two 5985 on 6v is would certainly do for the rudder, perhaps even 1 is enough. However, one HS5955 is much easier to setup, and it surely on the safe side, borderlining overkill.

[SD_Raptor]

Anyway, two 5985 on 6v is would certainly do for the rudder, perhaps even 1 is enough. However, one HS5955 is much easier to setup, and it surely on the safe side, borderlining overkill.

Tor-DK, good point. Since either way, I'd need a new servo to upgrade, the single servo for the Rudder is a better choice - and I would have a spare 5985. If I could find a motor/prop combo that would work well on 10s, I would be very tempted.

Randy

[Tor-DK]

When I get some time, I might try a 26" prop on 10S. But it probably wont be in the nearest future. But when I get it done I will post my findings.

[Jocke]

Would a 26x15" have to much pich?

[Tor-DK]

That was the one I was thinking of :) Since the is the smallest Mejzlik has of large E-props. A test will tell.

[Jocke]

Hehe ok ;)

[kmp647]

Are you going to keep flying this model with the motor studder thing going on?

Did you try lowering your timing on the controller yet?

it seemed to happen less often that way, or did your throttle channel delay work?

I am thinking I would like to be flying this plane this summer, and I can guess it may take Hyperion a while to remedy the controller issue. So I am thinking , lower timing, and or prop down to a 22x12e prop and fly it.

Kevin

[enigmabomb]

How many watts are you guys pulling on a 22x10E on 12s?

Josh

[kmp647]

I have not tested the 22" only 24x12e
~3,600 watts 12s 3700s

[Tor-DK]

When I started this thead the 4000watts was a guess based on the following.

The 5000 cells are rated for 20C in continuously and in 30C bursts. That equates to 100 and 150 Amps. Hence at only 90Amps (which is the ESC max rating) they are not even at max continuous C rating. For that reason they hold a very high Voltage around 3.7v pr. cell on a freshly charges pack (12 cells 44.4 volts). 4000 watts divided by 44.4 ~ 90Amps.

As I havn't done any messurements, I am not sure how many Amps the 24x12E is actually loading up with the 5000 cells.

I havn't tried the throttle delay yet, but maybe in the weekend.

[enigmabomb]

I tried the 24x10 ...2600 watts? Something aint right.

Josh

[kmp647]

whats your setup?
same z5045/18 on 12s?

[Tor-DK]

Details?

[enigmabomb]

z5045/18 on 12s 4350

22x10 = ~2200 watts
24x10 = ~2700 watts

Anyone else have similiar results?

[go-flight]

Josh,

Those are APC-E props you are using? And when you write 12S 4350 do you refer to the blue Hyperion LVX 4350 packs?

Would like to offer input but need these few tidbits clarified.

[SD_Raptor]

Josh,

The max rated current for the motor is 70 amps. At that load the batteries are probably dropping down to around 3.4 to 3.5 volts per cell. We'll be generous and say 3.5 volts per cell, giving 42 volts at the battery and 70 Amps for a maximum total power at the battery of 2940 Watts, not too far from what you measured. Were the batteries warmed up when you did your power reading?

Since the power did not increase when you propped up, you may have a poor connection somewhere that is dropping voltage before it gets to the motor or your batteries are sagging badly under load. Do you have separate voltage and current measurements? Are you sure that on the transmitter you have the end point on the throttle set to 100%? Also check the throttle detection on your ESC - used fixed endpoints if that option is available.

For these kinds of issues, the Eagle Tree Mocro-Power e-logger is incredibly useful and not very expensive. And since you can log data in flight as well as just doing static tests, it gives you a lot of information that you could not get otherwise.

KMP is pushing the motor pretty hard to get 3600 Watts on 12S - 85 Amps is well above the motor's rated maximum current.

Randy

[SD_Raptor]

Josh - good luck troubleshooting!

Randy

[kmp647]

z5045/18 on 12s 4350

22x10 = ~2200 watts
24x10 = ~2700 watts

Anyone else have similiar results?

Josh, what esc are you using? whats your advance set at

I got 2600 watts on 10s and a 24x12e on this setup

something isnt right, low advance, cool packs?

Kevin

[GWRIGHT]

Interesting thread,.. strange I stumbled across it at this time. I've got one of these on the workbench now. Four 9155's (ail/elev) and a 9152 (rudder). 319 synth reciever, dual U-becs each with a small 3-cell 910 pack, Hacker A60 18L with 12S 5000 TP extreme's, and a 24X12. Aluminum servo arms should be here today and it will be finished except for the ESC. Hacker/Jeti Spin 99 is on it's way but not here yet, so it won't fly this weekend. I'm told by someone that has flown this power setup for many months that it's 4200 watts, so after looking at the video at the beginning of this thread, and learning that it's below 4000, I'm getting a little excited. A local flyer has the one that's a size smaller on 12S with an A60M motor at 3400 watts, and it's quite exhilarating to fly. It's actually a little "work" to do some things due to the power response from small throttle stick movements. Sounds like this larger one is going to also need a throttle curve in the radio to smooth it out a little.

[enigmabomb]

APC E Props, Hyperion LVX 4350 packs, balanced, with less than 100 cycles.

ESC Is a CC 110HV

Amps on the 22x10 were like 50 and amps on the 24x10 were ~70. I flew my plane on the 22x10 yesterday, and it flew great, but for the style of flying Im doing, I want every bit of 2700 watts. I see you guys here getting it and wonder where Im f....ailing it up.

Dont get me wrong, I love motors with low amps draws that make power, but I cant have my stuff coming down only warm to the touch. Im just not that kinda guy.

Josh

[SD_Raptor]

APC E Props, Hyperion LVX 4350 packs, balanced, with less than 100 cycles.

ESC Is a CC 110HV

Amps on the 22x10 were like 50 and amps on the 24x10 were ~70. I flew my plane on the 22x10 yesterday, and it flew great, but for the style of flying Im doing, I want every bit of 2700 watts. I see you guys here getting it and wonder where Im f....ailing it up.

Dont get me wrong, I love motors with low amps draws that make power, but I cant have my stuff coming down only warm to the touch. Im just not that kinda guy.

Josh

Josh,

Have you regrogrammed your 110HV to turn off the throttle autocalibration? You should put it in fixed mode, not autoclibrate. In autocalibrate mode, if you do not go to full throttle in the first few seconds, it will artificially set an upper limit based on the highest throttle setting during the first few seconds.

This may be the problem if you do not usually do a full throttle take-off.

The CastleLink cable makes this all very simple to do. And if you have one, you can easily dowload the latest firmware into the ESC. This is one of the best power system accessoroies I have found.

Also be sure that yur modulation frequency is set to the lowest setting.

Randy

[kmp647]

Josh what are your esc settings , did you use castlelink?

and if so timing? and throttle type?

any motor studder on quick throttle application?

[Jocke]

Josh,

Have you messured the voltage on max load?

On what timing do you run the motor? if one use wrong timing on high pole and demanding motors, power can go upp with 10-20% on only 6degrees change.

[enigmabomb]

The voltage holds REALLY well.

I'll have to adjust the timing I think. I do have a castle link, I also picked up a 22x12WE today. Should help.

Josh

[Jocke]

Do you remember what you voltage is, could be interesting to compare to others that are getting more watts.

[SD_Raptor]

Heard another report yesterday of low power from a local flier using the recommended power setup for this plane. He could not get more than 60 Amps even when trying a couple of different props. He said is was not usable for flying the IMAC patterns. He said that he was told that Hyperion had mislabeled some non-HV ESCs as being HV-ESCs and is being sent a new ESC to try. If I hear more in the future, I'll update this forum.

Randy

[Tor-DK]

...so after looking at the video at the beginning of this thread, and learning that it's below 4000, I'm getting a little excited.

I messured the statics Amps today. It's 91.2 Amps on a fresh pack, so assuming the voltage is 44.4 volts, it is above 4000W on my model which has the same setup as the one in the video.

[Tor-DK]

Heard another report yesterday of low power from a local flier using the recommended power setup for this plane. He could not get more than 60 Amps even when trying a couple of different props.
If it's the same I am mailing with, he is only on 10S. Hence, the motor will not reach the same rpm and the prop will not load up. He should switch to a 26" prop or to a 12S setup.

[Geoff Dryer]

Hello Tor-DK.

What would you recommend as a good starting point (first flight) for the CG?

[Tor-DK]

I have it right at the wingtube, which works fine for 3D and precision. Very stabile hovering, so I don't see any reason to move it further back. At the wingtube is not far back and makes for very uncritical control. So this is both the place to start and leave it.

Throws are 45 degs on elevator and rudder. 33% on lowrates. Aileron 35 degs and 50% lowrates. The ailerons are very responsive, so maybe put a little more expo in the beginning till you get used to it.

[Geoff Dryer]

Thanks much.

When you say "at the wingtube" do you mean at the back, middle or front of the wing tube?

[Tor-DK]

At the middle so the model balances when picked up (canopy on the wing slanting over the fuse).

[kmp647]

Did you try a throttle curve
or are you just being easy on the throttle stick?

(to manage the studder problem?
I am sure hyperion is hard at work on the issue ,

they seem always to respond quickly

(just got my 12s10is reprogrammed)

[Tor-DK]

I did some regulator testing today. The throttle trick fixes the stutter - see attached screenshot for 14MZ (might help to find the right spot if you have another radio). I also tried a Jeti regulator that I have borrowed and it stutters too if the acceleration is set too low. The value that works good with the Jeti is 0.6 which gives the same delay as the value "18" in the 14MZ. I don't know what these values are, but it throttles from idle to full power in less the ½ second. With the throttle trick the motor will stutter if full power is applied and the prop is not rotating, but as soon it's rotating it's fine.

I didn't plan on flying since the wind was 8 m/s or 18mph. However, when she was standing there unassembled say said to me "don't just stand there looking at me, take me fly me hard"... so I did :D

I have flown it a couple of times in higher (and gusting) winds of 10-12 m/s (22-27 mph) and that was not particularly fun, although I think as long the wind doesn't prevent you from assemblig it, if will be possible to fly. In a steady 8 m/s wind like today however, it was a lot of fun harring into the wind, harrier landing and taking it back up in almost the same spot. Did have a close call with a low flatspin when as the wind really caugh it though Anyway, lots of adrenalin 3Ding in the wind. I flew it with the jeti regulator and this takes away any speculation of the actual power output, as the internal log read 4060 Watts. :)

I also did some RPM and amp readings and they where the same on both regulators - 85-90 amps and around 5500 RPM. I used a Hangar 9 tach to messure the RPMs, I have previously messured the RPMs to 5200 using the Hyperion E-meter, but since it ran out of power the second I turned it on, I have reason to believe that this reading could be wrong, since the power must have been low at that time too.

[SD_Raptor]

I have flown it a couple of times in higher (and gusting) winds of 10-12 m/s (22-27 mph) and that was not particularly fun, although I think as long the wind doesn't prevent you from assemblig it, if will be possible to fly.

Tor,

Great report. I like this new 'rule of thumb' - "If it is not too windy to assemble, it is not too windy to fly."

I remember when I was afraid to fly in any wind above 2-3 kph, even with my fairly large Multiplex Magister. Now I often wait until is is a bit more windy during the day and then go fly because I know there will be almost no one at the field - except the guys with the other larger and excellent flying planes from Hyperion, Extreme Flight, etc, whose planes make flying in the wind a joy. Flying in wind makes learning harrier's much easier, and also to learn a slow roll since the plane is nice and slow flying into a strong wind.

Randy

[dbarrym]

If it's the same I am mailing with, he is only on 10S. Hence, the motor will not reach the same rpm and the prop will not load up. He should switch to a 26" prop or to a 12S setup.

Tor and Randy are probably referring to me....

After flying my Yak on a Nuemotor 1521-1.5Y and Castle 110HV, using the same prop (APC 24x12E) and batteries (new Hyperion Litestorm 5S4000's in a 10S config), I only picked up 1 amp (~63A in flight max), about the same as I saw with the Hyperion motor and ESC. After swapping the batteries for a set of 5S4900's, the amp draw picked up to 73A (can't remember the RPM) and the performance was noticeably better - about what I expected from the beginning. So it appears that the 5S4000's are not up to the job, as they were dropping to 3.5-3.6V under load (per E-meter) with a fresh charge. The 4900's were solid up to 7-8 minutes. I'm also using a 24x12E APC prop, the 22's and 23's recommended will not draw enough amps (as Tor indicated).

I am going to pick up a set of 6S4900's (I know how to throttle manage ;) ), it will get the vertical where I need it for Advanced. Based on these results, I do think the Hyperion motor/ESC setup will work well - unforunately they recommended the setup I bought initially (including the wrong prop sizes) and it is not up to the task. Hyperion's US importer and dealer, Empire/All e RC, has been great and is exchanging my batteries for the correct size. I've also returned my ESC for an upgrade to the latest firmware revision, designed to resolve the stuttering issue. Hopefully they will update the recommended power system specs to the 24x12E prop and 12S 4900 batteries.

Thanka again for the help, Tor! PS - I've also ordered an APC 25x12.5E prop, I'll see if that is a good compromise between amp draw and vertical speed for both 10S and 12S.

Barry (in SD)

[kmp647]

Barry , is the latest version of the esc even out yet?
the issue was just brought up a couple weeks ago here on this thread.

I am guessing its not out yet. But I guess its good to ask hyperion how long it might be now that they have worked on the studdering issue.

Kevin

[Tor-DK]

Hi Barry

Be carefull with the 25x12.5E on 12S. The RPMs will not just go down when propping up on electrics like on gassers.

The motor is designed to run a specific number of revolutions pr. voltage and if the batteries are up for the job if will run that number of RPMs no matter what prop size you put on. Subsequently the amps will go ballistic if the prop is too large.

For the Hyperion setup I think for 10S the 25x12.5E (maybe even 26x15, but I have no 10S packs to try at the moment) is a good choice, since your RPMs will be lower as the voltage on 10S is lower than on 12S. Lower RPM means less load on the prop and less amps. To get the load back up, put more load on the same RPMs = bigger prop. Electrics are putting the cart before the horse compared to gassers. Less "power" = more prop.

24x12E is the upper limit of what I would push the Hyperion setup on 12S, since it is loading up the ESC to the max. Maybe the Neu setup on 12S is capable of handling the 25x12.5E, but be carefull and keep an eye on the amps.

[GWRIGHT]

Well, I got my 85" YAK in the air yesterday. Amazingly powerfull with the A60 , 12S and 24X12. Was the first charge on my 6S 5000's (4 of them), so I was kind of easy on it. I set the timer on the transmitter for 5 minutes. Ended up flying 5:34 and 5:59 according to the jeti spin box. Only got up to 88.3 amps and 44 volts, but these extreme packs usually come up dramatically in voltage after a few cycles, so I expect there will be more. Also cool around here, low 60's ambient so batteries didn't get but a couple degrees over 100, and therefore probably aren't near max voltage.I'm told this setup is 4200 watts at 96 amps on a normal warm day with packs that are "broken in". Still, more power than is needed for the plane by a wide margin. I started with the CG set so you could pick it up with the wing tube, sans canopy, and it hung level. A couple landings and moving the packs back an inch and a half, have it slightly behind the wing tube and it needs to go back just a little bit more. Harriers are unbelievably stable, and the tiny bit of wing rock I initially experienced has gone away with the cg a touch further back. Motor 106, batteries 104, and ESC 76 at end of flight, but I noticed the motor spiked up to 116 peak a minute or so after shutdown. I think of these numbers as benign and "cold", so maybe the 25X12.5 is in order, but I'll wait till the packs are cycled a few times and get readings. The really amazing thing was the apparent unloading in the air. I should have expected this with the 2 to 1 dia to pitch ratio of that prop, but the magnitude of it is kind of eye-opening. I put back in 1950 and 2070 in the packs for the 5.5 and 6 minute flights, respectively, and on the second flight I did hovering and torque rolls for a good 30 seconds, and quite a number of full throttle verticals to get altitude for spins and blenders,..i.e. I wasn't really "easy" on it in that flight. Taking a conservative track,.. I think I'll set the timer for 8 minutes, and track what I put back in to the packs for a while before adjusting the flight time higher.

[Obi-Wan]

Thanks much.

When you say "at the wingtube" do you mean at the back, middle or front of the wing tube?

Geoff, I hear you flew your Yak on the weekend, how did it go? I can't wait to see it at the field!

-Kevin

[dlgloco]

Am I missing something here? This is the info right off the web site for the Z5045 Series Motor. it says 3000 watts max for 10 sec.

The Z5045 Series are appropriate for models up to the 50cc gasoline engine class, in the weight range of 6.0~7.5Kg for aerobatic models. For slow-flying or scale models, weights may be in the range of 7.5Kg to 12.0Kg.



Z5045-16
Z5045-18

Max Efficient Current 40~58A 36~50A
Max Peak 20 Sec 75A 70A
Sugg. Power Range 1700W ~ 2150W (3000W 3D max peak, 10 seconds)
Sugg. Input Voltage 12S 12S~14S
Io (@8.4V): (A)

1.8A
1.6A

KV: (rpm/V)

168
149

Ri: (ohm)

0.018
0.020

Sugg MAX Prop Size 20x12E 12S 22x10E 12S
Weight
890 grams

Motor Diameter 59mm
Motor Length 81mm
Shaft Diameter 8mm

Craig

[Tor-DK]

If you look at the description for the backmount version it says up to 80 amp in the description - I don't know if the frontmount version has the same cooling.

Anyway there must be something wrong in the datasheet, since 14 cell x 3.7 volts x 70 amp = 3625 watts. Have no idea how they got to 2150 or 3000 for than matter, but obviously this is wrong on a 890 grams motor.

Just keep it in the specs on the number of cells, do not go totally overboard on the amps and make sure you cool it well and you'll be fine.

[dbarrym]

Barry , is the latest version of the esc even out yet?
the issue was just brought up a couple weeks ago here on this thread.

I am guessing its not out yet. But I guess its good to ask hyperion how long it might be now that they have worked on the studdering issue.

Kevin

I don't know if the new programming is available yet, but word on the street is that Hyperion has a fix in progress. I have sent back the 12S ESC and I'd assume they will reprogram or exchange them whenever the fix is ready.

If it solves the problem, that's great - the Castle 110HV is quite a bit pricier. I'd really like to see the Hyperion setup work as it is a great deal.

[kmp647]

Yup I have the same esc and I know it may be a bit longer, but they are working on it. i saw a reference to that work in another thread.
In the mean time I am propping down a bit to a 22x11e

Kevin

[dbarrym]

Hi Barry

For the Hyperion setup I think for 10S the 25x12.5E (maybe even 26x15, but I have no 10S packs to try at the moment) is a good choice, since your RPMs will be lower as the voltage on 10S is lower than on 12S. Lower RPM means less load on the prop and less amps. To get the load back up, put more load on the same RPMs = bigger prop. Electrics are putting the cart before the horse compared to gassers. Less "power" = more prop.

24x12E is the upper limit of what I would push the Hyperion setup on 12S, since it is loading up the ESC to the max. Maybe the Neu setup on 12S is capable of handling the 25x12.5E, but be carefull and keep an eye on the amps.

Agreed. I bought the 25x12.5E to try on 10S, to see if that gets the amps to where they need to be. For 12S I think the 24x12E will be perfect. I'll soon have both 5S and 6S batteries to try (even trying an 11S on both props). The reason I bought this setup was to fly in the local "EMAC" (electric IMAC) series...I like to have a selection of props for different conditions - more pitch (speed) for windy days, etc - and with electrics it seems there are a lot more variables to factor in. Once I find a combo I like for my style (precision with some freestyle/3D), I'll lock on to it.

I'm learning a lot just from reading the experiences of others, hopefully someone else can save some $$$ and time by reading my experiences as well.

I love the way the Yak flies - very smooth with consistent speed on both up and down lines. I am playing with CG and aileron differential now - I had been flying with the CG about 1/4" aft of the rear edge of the wing tube, but it really pitched 'up' on inverted lines, so I have it near the middle now. Snaps and spins are not as crisp as with the aft CG but much smoother otherwise.

Anyone interested in another build/test thread, I have one at Flying Cirkus, here - http://www.teamflyingcirkus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2025 .

Barry

[SD_Raptor]

Here are some pics from last sunday.

Tor,

Lovely shots!

Nice field too.

Randy

[dbarrym]

So after some more experimentation, I have found an ideal combination for IMAC (EMAC) style flight.

At yesterday's SEFSD EMAC contest I flew 11S 4900 packs and with the same APC 24x12E props and Neu motor, it's pulling around 3800 watts with excellent vertical and plenty of upline speed. And with the 4900's I am only using 85% capacity with a 7:30 flight, enough for two Sportsman sequences with a couple trim passes.

I also ground tested 12S4900 and got 93Amps and 4300 watts, static - perfect for great 3D performance. Since I now have 2 each 5S and 6S 4900 packs, it is easy enough to mix and match for the day's mission plan. I believe that the standard Hyperion motor and ESC will provide similar perfomance (with slightly reduced duration - the Neu is more efficient), and Tor's own experiences would seem to validate that.

I'm now very pleased with the performance of the plane. Still dialing in the CG and mixes, which I'll post after I get it 100% to my liking. But it was good enough to take first in Sportsman (many of the regular entrants were at a pattern event that conflicted with this event).

I'm also still planning on trying out the APC 25x12.5E on the 10S and 11S setup, may work slightly better for windy days.

[Tor-DK]

Video is up, click here (http://www.precision.dk/video/HyperionYak54-180.wmv)

5 mins 45 seconds and 31MB

:)

http://www.precision.dk/video/HyperionYak54-180.jpg

[kmp647]

nice flying! great job with the video
looks like tons of power , and hovering down low you must have the controller issue tamed.
Kevin

[SD_Raptor]

Tor,

Very nice - plenty of power and a great sound as she gets more power. Fun to watch those big control surfaces move around. But you did get a bit close to the camera person a couple of times - they must have great faith in your skill!

Randy

[flypilot]

Nice flying Tor ;-) I wish I dare to fly that low with that controller hehe.....hopefully a new one is not far away...