AMD Hawk - Detailed Build Thread

[bigtop]

Hi Dennis,

What happened to the hawk build? I am just building the same model and would like to know how you are getting on with it?
I have found the instructions to be irratating especailly when they don't give you dimensions for the part of the job you're on, you'll find them two pages on, or as with the wheel height...right at the back of the book! I too had the holes which were too big for the wing hinges. I found a different way to do the wheel wells rather than cut out the cross, that was to cut the bottom of at the height differential then slide it in to the well and paint the edge...look good. See pix

[Bigplumbs]

Hello bigtop

I will be getting on with the build again soon I have not been that well and have a rearly bad tooth ache so havn't felt like doing much. But off to the dentist tommorow so hopefully I can get it sorted........ Interesting method you did on the wheel wells will you have enough depth for the wheels to retract by doing it this way.......... I agree the manual could be better..... Have you got the adapted manual from Colchester A1 models or have you just got the stock one ?

Regards

Dennis

www.densplanes.co.uk

[bigtop]

Hi Dennis,

I too have felt a little rough with MAN FLU!! and I have to go to the dentist soon because a bit of tooth has broken off ouch! (how weird)
The wheel well are the same depth because the plastic part that I cut is pushed up against the ply frame beneath. The only thing that I have done since is to dremell a hole to allow the wheel collit to go through. Also I noticed that in the instructions it tell you to put the wheel legs the wrong way so that the spring is opened on impact rather than closed! Because the spring fouls the retract piston. BUT by changing the left leg for the right leg it works fine the spring winding is on top i.e not fouling the retract piston. I'm using the instructions from A1. This is my first Jet and my first set of Air retracts so a hole laerning curve for me.p.s how do I get a picture under my name?

[bigtop]

testing

[Bigplumbs]

Well she is back on the bench again and I have just fitted the front retract body. I had to add quite a lot of packing to the top of the retract support as with my retracts it is very difficult to get the front wheel all the way up into the nose. Here is a pic of it mounted. The cut out area was for the single arm type of steering that I have now got rid of as it kept snagging and I am now going with Pull Pull

Dennis

www.densplanes.co.uk

[Bigplumbs]

I made up a template for the nose retracts from soft wire as a test and will fit everything in with this before I bend the high tensile wire leg to match.

See below

[Bigplumbs]

Bigtop

You get a pic under your name by uploading one in you profile area I must admit I cant remember how to do it. Funny about the tooth thing.... Where in the UK are you ?

Found how to do it.... Go to MyRc groups and on the left click on edit Avatar and away you go.

Weather looks goog for flying on Saturday :D

Dennis

[Bigplumbs]

Here is the nose wheel in position. You will have to dremmel the hole for the leg etc a little longer and wider so that you can get it to nicely retract. Remember it is important to get 130 mm from bottom of fuz to the botton of the wheel.

Even with mounting the retract on plates on the top of the mount I still have a little protruding when retracted but it isn't much. I even notice that the one on Colchester A1 models site has the same.

I am using the small set of retracts for £55 fron Jetlegend by the way available in the uk from Jeff Sewell who is a lovely chap to deal with.

Dennis

www.densplanes.co.uk

[bigtop]

:confused: That's a little annoying having to see the wheel hang down like that, I did see another one like that as you have, but can't we get around it in anyway? Spoils the look of the smooth lines of the aircraft. Still waiting for my resin to dry after glassing my wings together, wouldn't be as brave as Dennis and put in on the bed to keep warn...DOH! :(

[bigtop]

I'm in Southend. Yes the weather looks good for sat. Waiting for the ground to dry out now so we can maintain our feild a bit better! Did you do a drawing of your template? :confused:

[bigtop]

ingnore this too :censored:

[bigtop]

Thanx Dennis got my picture now

[bigtop]

Done it again, looked at the page to do my Rudder servo installation...fine lets do it. Fitted Rudder Servo (HiTec HS-5125mg Rudder) all glued in, cut slot the side of the tail fin, installed control arm, looking good. All works great, turned the page and bang!! there it is the intructions telling you to set the rudder at a slight angle! So I thought do I brake my plane to get the rudder out and re-set it or shall I leave it....answer LEAVE IT! :eek: Looks ok I hope I will get away with it :confused: (Sorry about pix but I take them on my phone cam)

[Bigplumbs]

:confused: That's a little annoying having to see the wheel hang down like that, I did see another one like that as you have, but can't we get around it in anyway? Spoils the look of the smooth lines of the aircraft. Still waiting for my resin to dry after glassing my wings together, wouldn't be as brave as Dennis and put in on the bed to keep warn...DOH! :(

This depends on the design of your retract. Mine make getting this in the plane a little hard but I am happy with the little bit of protrusion. I dont think it will be that visible in the air. Did you get your rudder servo in from the inside...... Youmust have very small hands :D
Dennis

[Bigplumbs]

It is clear that others have had the same problem of the nose wheel protruding...... Here is the pic from the Colchester A1 models site

Dennis

www.densplanes.co.uk

[bigtop]

Always best to have small hands a good friend once told me :) The servo is very slim so all I did was to attach the double sided tape that comes with the servo then I stuck it in postion with that, then I added wooden packing to the other side by glueing the pieces together then put glue on each side of the wooden packing then slide it in between the servo and the wall of the tail fin. Then I used "Plastic Weld" with a stick I moulded it around the servo fixing (I hope I don'tneed to get it out!) If you look an the blury picture you should just be able to see the packing? I purchased "Spring Air Retracts" So they look as though the front wheel will stay inside the fuzz! fingers crossed. When I've done it I'll take a picture. Did you do a drawing of the front leg shape? could you put it on here so as we get see? Thanx.

[bigtop]

Just wondering if there was a set distance between the elevator wing and the fuzz & if the was a set postion of the elevator rods or is it just a case of suck it and see? I fitted the fins on the back of the fuzz today while I had some spare glue! just as an experiment on one of them I put two panel pins in the fin drilled two holes in the fuzz to support it. If one falls of it'll interesting to see which one it was? (I don't want any of them to fall off) :eek:

[Bigplumbs]

Just wondering if there was a set distance between the elevator wing and the fuzz & if the was a set postion of the elevator rods or is it just a case of suck it and see? I fitted the fins on the back of the fuzz today while I had some spare glue! just as an experiment on one of them I put two panel pins in the fin drilled two holes in the fuzz to support it. If one falls of it'll interesting to see which one it was? (I don't want any of them to fall off) :eek:

I must say doing the elevator scares me a little as It is important to get them both equal. I am also a little amazed at how little up elevator is possible befor it hits the fuz. Still many have flown this plane so it must be enough

Dennis

www.densplanes.co.uk

[bigtop]

I will hopefully be seeing one fly tomorrow...if I do I'll get some info and let you know! :rolleyes:

[Bigplumbs]

I will hopefully be seeing one fly tomorrow...if I do I'll get some info and let you know! :rolleyes:

I would be nice if you could get some video and specs of the turbine they are using

Dennis

[Bigplumbs]

Hello all............... I took the Bobcat (My Trainer for the Hawk Turbine)to the field today and had my friend 3DFlip fly her so that I could get some video. I was very pleased with the flight and the performance of the plane. The landings were interesting as she tended to bounce even though she was going quite slow. The combination of the OS 55AX and the 11 x 8 two blade prop is good. 3DFlip did notice the same thing I did on my maiden which is the elevator sometimes takes a while to 'bite' when pulling out of a dive.... The main gear has bent back a bit so I think I will change the wire for a thicker gauge........ Thanks to 3DFlip for showing us what the bobcat can do........ Sorry I never got the takeoff in the film..

Here is the video

http://media.putfile.com/Nitro-Model-Planes-Bobcat

Enjoy your bobcats

Dennis

www.densplanes.co.uk

[bigtop]

I would be nice if you could get some video and specs of the turbine they are using

Dennis


The Hawk didn't fly today, he didn't even bring it! I saw your Bobcat in A1 the other day, it's so light! You'll have to get another MW44 to stick on that later. ;)

BiGToP

www.thebigtop.co.uk

[bigtop]

Hi all,

Been in the hanger again! The turbine was too small for the wooden engine mount so I had to add braces to it and braced that with carbon which I got from a spare heli tail fin! :o Fitted the closed loop in the nose today fitted the dowl (I hope it's right...never done a retract one before?) also I got the nose leg right now. Allowed a little extra on the bottom for adjustment. When fiiting the spring air retract to the nose I had to move it right back, therefore I had to fill the holes in the mounting bracket. I had to cut so more out of the nose to allow the wheel to have free access. I've attached some pix (from phone sorry about blur) :(

[Bigplumbs]

Well done Bigtop you are getting on much quicker than me. I was flying most of the weekend and didn't feel like building tonight..... Your progress is very impressive

Dennis

[bigtop]

Thanx Bigplumbs.
Got back in the hanger again been tidying up a few things and the hawk. I saw that the Red Arrows have a white border around the canopy so I did that indoors tonight! (warmer) Just a little note to people out there buying these models: check out the 2 pins in the front of the canopy, mine fell out! I saw a thread on the net out someone had a AMD Hawk where a panel came off, I don;t think it was that one but nether the less CHECK IT My nose wheel sticks out a tiny bit too SAD but lets move on :( The nose leg is all done now apart from two screws to put in gonna check steering control tomorrow, probably have to to turn the servo around. I'll be trying to get my head around the elevator saga, making sure everthing is right before I commit to GLUE! I'll let you know of progress. It seems like it's just you and me Dennis. Oh well lets hope someone learns from my mistakes :confused: :eek:

[bigtop]

I just looked back on the earlier part of this thread and saw the answer to one of my questions DON'T FIT THE FIBRE TUBE! at 3oz it can stay on the hanger floor!Is ERICB still out there...did he fit two tanks if so where? Just asking re:C of G. :rolleyes:

[Eric Banner]

Hi Bigtop,

Fitted two tanks as per instructions.

The c of g is marked and as you will notice is a little forward of the tanks centre. Balanced dry, the slight rearward shift of c of g with fuel onboard does not have a noticeable adverse effect.

Eric



I just looked back on the earlier part of this thread and saw the answer to one of my questions DON'T FIT THE FIBRE TUBE! at 3oz it can stay on the hanger floor!Is ERICB still out there...did he fit two tanks if so where? Just asking re:C of G. :rolleyes:

[bigtop]

Thanx Eric,
That's just what I needed. I like the wood to hold the tanks up, seems like a nice touch! The fuel tanks will probably get a test fit tomorrow. I managed to get the elevator almost done today (Amongst other jobs). Fitted gyro to steering turned steering servo around, fitted power switch. sorted servo wires from tail along fuzz in a loom to front of plane.....it's coming together. :p :cool:

[Bigplumbs]

Thanx Eric,
That's just what I needed. I like the wood to hold the tanks up, seems like a nice touch! The fuel tanks will probably get a test fit tomorrow. I managed to get the elevator almost done today (Amongst other jobs). Fitted gyro to steering turned steering servo around, fitted power switch. sorted servo wires from tail along fuzz in a loom to front of plane.....it's coming together. :p :cool:

You are getting along at a very good speed.... I am tied up with work at the moment so it is having to take a bit of a back seat........... Are you going to run up the turbine on the bench a few times so that you get used to it..... I think this is a good idea in case you get a wet start when learning and the whole thing goes up in flames.............. Keep that CO2 extinguisher ready

Dennis

[xairflyer]

Where did you get the picture from on the colchester web site, I cant get any details from there site at all about anything they do, maybe they have a different web address now. The one I am using is:-
http://www.a1models.fsnet.co.uk/products.html

[3d flip]

http://www.colchestera1models.co.uk/index.php?act=viewCat&catId=7

They have a new site

[bigtop]

Hi,
Bench test....not sure? My problem is I'm not sure how much pipe that I have in this kit and how much length I need for the plane. So if I cut this pipe to bench test it, will I have enough to go in the plane. It is an autostart version of the jet and it has been factory run....should it not run ok?? I will seek advice on this matter form a few professional jet flyers? Plus I don't think the neighbours will be too keen to here it! I was thinking of getting my professional friends to test it in the plane, down the feild WITH a CO2 extinguisher ready!! :rolleyes: :confused: :( :eek:


www.thebigtop.co.uk

[bigtop]

Finaly finished elevator! (I hope :confused: ) Installed a Balsa panel and coated in ali foil to protect servos. Also coated the servo wires to protect them against flames/heat. Now I've re-glassed the wing (the other didn't dry!) I've got the bolt brace all glued and clamped and installed dowls to the leading edge. :cool:

[bigtop]

Had a bit of a set back tonight, the poxy epoxy wasn't good enough to make a the deficit of wood in the wing to allow for poxy hinges that are too small and one fell loose, so I had to cut the aileron off and now I have to fill holes in and go a purchase some more hinges! If oly I had seen this thread before I purchased my Hawk, I would of paid the extra and bought the bigger hinges!!! :censored: :censored: :censored: SO IF YOU BUY ONE OF THESE MODELS BUY THE BIGGER HINGES :mad:

[bigtop]

Done a bit more today. Have ordered my new LARGER hinges and I will cut off all the control sufaces and fit all new because a never did trust the thin hinges! Got the JetPipe fitted today also temp fitting Jet and fuel tanks. I copied EricB's idea but used some carbon rod instead of wood (I had some left over from a heli repair) Copied Bigplumbs idea & got the pie cutter fitted(the bit on the end of the JetPipe that looks like a pie cutter) Copied Sonnich Johannesen's idea and covered wing center with foil tape. I little bit further forward but two steps back with wing suface hinges :( Still I'm quite pleased with myself, not being a modeller as such :o

[Bigplumbs]

Bigtop


You are getting on very well....... If you test run the turbine on the bench you dont need to use the jetpipe. This is just for in the model...... You are putting me to shame as I am not progressing at the moment....... Still no hurry

Dennis

[bigtop]

Hi Dennis,


Indeed there's no rush :) , it's just at the moment I have a bit of spare time, so I'm "making hay while the sun shines" I've found that sometimes you can just get imursed in something like this and you can really get on well. Another time you get nowhere, do you find that? How many rooms have you taken over in the house now? you were on 4!
I wonder how Sonnich Johannesen is getting on with his hawk? My friend has got an AIRWORLD Hawk which is about 8 feet long!, it's what inspired me to get my 1st jet, and a Red Arrow too!

Keep up the building ;)

www.thebigtop.co.uk

[the boy]

Its an Airworld Hawk Ron,

Still have not flown the little one yet as my Wren starter wand packed up.

you are cracking on well!!

Dave Stephens

[bigtop]

Bigtop


You are getting on very well....... If you test run the turbine on the bench you dont need to use the jetpipe. This is just for in the model...... You are putting me to shame as I am not progressing at the moment....... Still no hurry

Dennis


Hi Dennis,

It's not the JetPipe I was refering to it was the fuel and gas pipe, if that's what you thought that I meant?
I'm waiting now for my new hinges. Were you refering to them being too long in one of your threads?

BiGToP

[bigtop]

Thanx Dave,

I've edited my thread now to reflect the correct name .
Yeah see what you've done? :p I really love that Hawk....good Boy :D
It's strange but I see lots of jets down at our field, but that one just does it for me! It's the absolute :censored: :cool:
Get that wand fixed, at this rate you'll be flying mine before you fly yours! ;)
Do I have to bench test this engine or can I do it in the plane? re: have I got enough pipe/tube? I 'd like to run it up at the field not at home!



www.thebigtop.co.uk

[bigtop]

Today I fitted the wing and braced the wing locating point (as others have done) can't do much more with the wing untill I've sorted out those poxy hinges!! :mad:
Also had a chance to route some wires and sort out where pipes/wires are going to be. Did a bit more protective covering around area of jet pipe.(reminds me of the space shuttle with the cargo doors open) :p Got to get my head round the plumbing now! :confused:


www.thebigtop.co.uk

[the boy]

Ron, i could only find 3 of the larger robart hinges (got loads of the small ones!!) do you want me to give them to Aaron to take to the field tomorrow (im going go carting) they might be handy even if just to make all the holes and get it ready?

Dave

[bigtop]

Dave,
It's ok ta I've ordered new ones and they should be here tomorrow :p

[xairflyer]

Seen ones today at our model shop but they looked very big to me, what size hinges are you guys talking about (dia)

[Bigplumbs]

Well the weather is horrible so I am going to try and catch up on Bigtop a little today.... In answer to your question I am now only in 2 rooms of the house but it will start to increase I am sure..... The airworl Hawk is lovely but rather big for me at the moment.

I have bent the propper nose wheel leg to match the profile of the dummy I made but had to put the bend lower to avoid the spring. Here is a little pic of the two together. All I have to do now is cut off the extra length of wire and fit in the plane

Dennis

www.densplanes.co.uk

[Bigplumbs]

In order to ge the wooden dowl straight I glued the little supplied mounting plates to a piece of thick balsa and shaped this the best I could to the inside shape of the nose. I will glue this in using epoxy

Dennis

[Bigplumbs]

Here is my steering wire guide rod with the little screw eyes in position as the instructions. I just used cheap eyes bought from B and Q

[Bigplumbs]

Here is a pic of the steering servo mounted in position. I am now going to run the guide wires for the steering and get them to the correct length. Remember also that is you are going to connect your rudder and steering servo to the rudder channel with a Y lead you need to do the steering first in order to determine which side to cut in the rudder servo so that they work in the correct directions. If you get it wrong you can swap the steering servo from a JR/Hitec to a futaba as they are wire opposite in the pot

Dennis

www.densplanes.co.uk

[Bigplumbs]

I found that when the retract retracted the wires to the steering arm on the wheel side bowed inwards and allowed the crimped piece to foul the spring bit on the leg. I therefore made little loods of wire set into a piece of balsa to guide the wires and this seems to have fixed the problem

Dennis

www.densplanes.co.uk

[Bigplumbs]

Now that I have got the nose wheel mounted I can fit the rudder and rudder servo. I am using a Y lead so that it is important to get the side of mounting correct.

Here is the rudder glued in position I used the larger robart hinge points and I have drilled out the holes to fit and glued them in position with 5 min epoxy

The servo I will use for the rudder will be the HS 125MG slim servo

Dennis

www.densplanes.co.uk

[bigtop]

Hi

You're going for it today Dennis, well done. I found the same with the wire so I did a simular thing as your loops on the side. I used the same rudder servo too. Also (as recommened by A1) I've fitted a small gyro to the nose wheel to keep it straight on take off?
Next job for me is to continue cutting the small hinges off the flaps and ailerons and drill out for new larger ones! :mad: Keep those pictues and tips coming it all good stuff :) Also purchased from A1 a quick release air connector so as when I take off the wing it'll be easy.

BiGToP

[bigtop]

Hi,

EricB have you got any pictures of your fuel pump installation so I can get a heads up? :confused:

BiGToP


www.thebigtop.co.uk

[Bigplumbs]

The extra instructions from Colchester A1 models shows the rudder linkage outside of the fin... This does not look that good but it will be a much stronger installation..... As always just say to yourself........ You wont see that in the air :D See the attached pic

It is also a good idea to grind the corner off the rudder horn a little so that it doesn't strike the fin

Dennis

www.densplanes.co.uk

[Bigplumbs]

When you mark out to cut the hole in the fin for the rudder servo make sure you locate the vertical piece of timbe that is in the fin so that you dont have to cut into this. I marked out the hole with tape and then cut the hole by scoreing the fin several times with a good sharp strong scapel blade. I have now glued the servo timber plate to the piece of removed fiberglass. I will now decorate the edges of the hole and the removed piece with the red paint

The funny markes in the pics are just reflections from my flash

Dennis

www.densplanes.co.uk

[Bigplumbs]

Well in aint that pretty and it took ages but I have now got the rudder complete. Cutting a hatch in the fin was never going to be easy or neat but I feel that I have done as good a job as I could. In the pics the paint is still wet so will blend in a little better when dry. It does work well so that is the important thing.......... As my mother is always telling me 'looks aint everything son' :D

Dennis

www.densplanes.co.uk

[Bigplumbs]

I am not looking forward to this bit at all. First thing to say is that the tubes inside the elevator on my plane needed quite a lot of filing to allow the elevator to slide on nicely. I also drilled a hole in the end with a piece of wire as these need to be glued on and I dont what a hydraulic lock

See the pic below

Dennis

[Bigplumbs]

Well that is the elevator servo in position. I have to say it was a pig of a job and I have quite small hands. I fixed the servo to the supplied plate in the conventional way then stuck the servo in with fiberglass putty. I then carefully measured (you dont want to drill into your new £60 servo :eek: ) to establish where the end points of the ply plate were and drilled from the top to fix the whole thing down with a couple of screws.

Remember you have to file a flat on the ali rods in the elevator mounting. To do this I set it all up and then tightened down the grub screws onto the ali to mark it. The take it to pieces and file the flat. Once all is done and the servo is in position I will set the elevator up nice and level and then glue on each elevator with 30 min epoxy.

Dont tape the elevator in position as I did as the tape will remove the paint

Dennis

www.densplanes.co.uk

[Bigplumbs]

Well here it is finished at last............... The elevator that is....... It is glueing up with 30 min epoxy........ When you glue this up make sure you dont use too much and glue it to the fus............. :eek: . Once in position. I used some dental floss to make sure it was clear..... I also go and operate the elevator every 5 - 10 mins to make sure it doesnt set if there is a little in the wrong place.

There is about a 2 mm gap between the elevator and the fus on mine which makes sure it doesn't bind when operated.

Dennis

www.densplanes.co.uk

[bigtop]

Hi,
I've been flying yesterday and today so I've let my Hawk duties go BUT....this evening I've re-installed the ailerons and flaps with the new larger hinges and I've started to intstall my Jet. I've moved my air tank to underneath the servo panel to keep it out of the way. I've made a little panel/shelf for the Fadec. I wanted to fit all of the fuel components all in the same compartment if I could. I also wanted to be able to get to the plug in part of the Fadec and also the control panel RJ45 socket too. I managed this quite well in the way that I've installed it. the fuel pump and fuel valve is underneath the Fadec. The gas valve is to the side of it, all quite neat. I've used that expanding wire covering and run all the wires in this from the engine through the middle of the air intake straight to the Fadec. The gas and fuel line go off to the side and into the "fuel control bay" I had to call it night for tonight, I've still got cable ties to do and tidy cable runs but that can wait till tomorrow.
Go Go Go Dennis! I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks that the elevator is a nightmare. Well done Dennis you're cracking on now ;)

www.thebigtop.co.uk

[xairflyer]

What is the reason for fitting the servo in the fin for the rudder ? I know it make a bet slop free control, but is it really neccasary for some other reason, the rudder is not used much on a jet, some dont even have them.

[Bigplumbs]

What is the reason for fitting the servo in the fin for the rudder ? I know it make a bet slop free control, but is it really neccasary for some other reason, the rudder is not used much on a jet, some dont even have them.

I Think I agree with you that they are not used that much but if you want to knife edge you would need it and the torque rod system would have quite a lot of slop in it.

Dennis

[Bigplumbs]

Bigtop

Those are very usefull pics I will make use of them when I get to that point..... Are you having on board gas for starting I am not going to do this as I am told it can be quite a fire risk if you get a leak. I am going to use a gas cylinder on the ground to start it then disconnect.....

Dennis

www.densplanes.co.uk

[xairflyer]

Regarding the nosewheel retraction, what I done on a model before was to slightly incline the retract mount forward allows the wheel to just pop inside, works best when using trailing link undercarriage legs.

[Bigplumbs]

I hate having a plane of this size with no pilot I have therefore purchased a 1/7th scale jet pilot and am trying to work out a way to get him in the cockpit without making a pigs ear of it. I want to do it so that it shows as little as possible....... Anyone got any bright ideas

Dennis

www.densplanes.co.uk

[bigtop]

Hi Dennis,

I'm not going to use onboard gas either at the moment. A1 say it's not worth it as you'll never start it in the air anyway BUT.....it does look cool when your machine is on the ground and it starts without any outboard connections :cool:
I've been plumbing in my fuel tanks tonight not sure what to do about a UAT and the moment some say DO some say DON'T going to ask Dave Stephens tomorrow and I'll let you know the verdict. If I use a UAT the fill pipe will be on that and I won't need the one on tank 2. I've included 2 diagrams one with a top tip for securing fuel pipe to clunk and brass pipe and tank plumbing and the other a possible solution to you pilot question :confused: Lets see a picture of your pilot, is it a red arrow pilot. Blue suit white helmet?:rolleyes:

www.thebigtop.co.uk

[bigtop]

What is the reason for fitting the servo in the fin for the rudder ? I know it make a bet slop free control, but is it really neccasary for some other reason, the rudder is not used much on a jet, some dont even have them.

Hi,
If you look at the thread on rcuniverse I think that there is someone saying that they used it the original way and they had some trouble flying the aircraft so the changed to this modification and it worked fine. It was all about slop! Not sure where it was but it went something like that? :confused:
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_2771814/mpage_1/key_/tm.htm

[bigtop]

Regarding the nosewheel retraction, what I done on a model before was to slightly incline the retract mount forward allows the wheel to just pop inside, works best when using trailing link undercarriage legs.


Hi,

On mine and I think others the nose wheel actually hits the inside of the body shell. I can't get mine to go up any more. It's a good tip for future referance thanks xairflyer.

BiGToP :o

[Bigplumbs]

Bigtop

Thanks for the tips........ I have been looking at your tank plumbing diagram and cant quite understand how it would work.... Perhaps I am being thick. My pilot is a 1/7th jet pilot from D&K from Perkins it is one you have to paint yourself. Here is a pic, at 1/7th it looks a little big but I checked the wing span of the real plane and did a conversion to our model and it is indeed 1/7th

Dennis

[Bigplumbs]

I posted a simple question on RC Universe about the best way of plumbing the two tanks. In one day I have received no less than 16 totally confusing posts on the subject... I can't believe no one can give a simple answer to this. :censored: :mad: :mad:

At this rate I will just put a f******G elastic band in the b****y plane and have done with it.

Dennis

[bigtop]

I posted a simple question on RC Universe about the best way of plumbing the two tanks. In one day I have received no less than 16 totally confusing posts on the subject... I can't believe no one can give a simple answer to this. :censored: :mad: :mad:

At this rate I will just put a f******G elastic band in the b****y plane and have done with it.

Dennis

Hi Dennis,

A lot of the Jet Pilots that I know use this method for 2 tanks. There are other ways maybe but this is how we do it. It's the same plumbing as a Raptor Helicopter, the only difference is the vent goes to the exhaust!
I meeting my mate Dave (top jet man..more jets than you can shake a stick at) tonight, I'll speak to him in depth about this and I will post the results later tonight and let you know. Please don't get stressed over the fuel tanks.....stay stressed over the elevlator! ;) Got my self a nice white, clean 25 litre can (plastic) for my parafin. I've got my pump got my fuel pipe, I must have a switch! Got a filter......must be almost there!
Oh yeah, finish the jet! lol :p :p :p Oh nice pilot, what do you paint him with (paint type)?

BiGToP

www.thebigtop.co.uk

[bigtop]

someone :censored: at number 10 downing street wants to stop funding the RAF display team the Red Arrows

please sign the petetion to save them :mad:

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/SaveTheReds/

[bigtop]

Hi,

Here goes, this is a diagram for my mate F15 just check this out! :eek:
BiGToP


www.thebigtop.co.uk

[bigtop]

Hi Dennis,

Just had another idea, see pic:


BiGToP

www.thebigtop.co.uk

[Bigplumbs]

Hey Bigtop

I got a little stressed as you noticed.... I had a delivery of Home heating oil today and the pipe came out of the tank and I was sprayed at high pressure with a 1 inch bore pipe. Several showers later and I still cant get rid of it. That didn't help

I had a similar idea on the pilot but I think it will scrape as you insert it and scrape the paint off. I will study it again. My wife paints all my pilots and she just uses any type of paint she has. Your diagram of the plumbing is very helpfull and I have also had some good responses now over on RC Universe.

Still cos I got stressed I went and ordered one of these so my LHS did ok out of it. Nothing like a bit of retail threapy.

http://www.alshobbies.com/shop/lookupstock.php?pc=6372&Desc=

Good to see you have finished her..... That scary day is aproaching

Dennis

[bigtop]

Hi Dennis,

Not quite finished, I hope to be flying it at the weekend? I should be at least test running it and getting it set up! Still got lots of tidying to to and cable runs to sort. Making sure that the receiver is as far away from the pump as possible and to make sure that the aerial runs away from any cables. Then all the final checking that all the surfaces are going the right way and that the travel is correct. Spoke to Dave re:fuel plumbing and all is correct. :) Glad you have sorted your stress levels even if it was because you had some retail therapy. Nice little ducted fan is that ready to go or did I see you had to add a few things? Probably option one for the pilot, I'll have to get one! I see you are a fan of electric planes on the website (even in the snow!) ;) The UAT question the jury is still out on that, I'll speak to Dave wilde of A1 tomorrow and confirm with him that he doesn't use one, I'm sure he said that he didn't! :confused:

BiGToP

www.thebigtop.co.uk

[Bigplumbs]

Hi Dennis,

Not quite finished, I hope to be flying it at the weekend? I should be at least test running it and getting it set up! Still got lots of tidying to to and cable runs to sort. Making sure that the receiver is as far away from the pump as possible and to make sure that the aerial runs away from any cables. Then all the final checking that all the surfaces are going the right way and that the travel is correct. Spoke to Dave re:fuel plumbing and all is correct. :) Glad you have sorted your stress levels even if it was because you had some retail therapy. Nice little ducted fan is that ready to go or did I see you had to add a few things? Probably option one for the pilot, I'll have to get one! I see you are a fan of electric planes on the website (even in the snow!) ;) The UAT question the jury is still out on that, I'll speak to Dave wilde of A1 tomorrow and confirm with him that he doesn't use one, I'm sure he said that he didn't! :confused:

BiGToP

www.thebigtop.co.uk

I think you are correct Dave doesn't use a UAT I think I will perhaps go with a simple series installation. Also once finished I dont think there is much space in the hawk for a UAT. On the ariel front I am using ny new Spektrum 2.4 gig set up so I am hoping this will get over any interference issues. This was why I bought the Spektrum as I have had issues with glitching here and there with some of my electrics

Good luck with the maiden

Dennis

www.densplanes.co.uk

[bigtop]

Hi Dennis,

Spectrum seems the way forward. Someone sadi that Futaba is going to bring one (Module) out for my FF9 Super. Let me know how you get on with yours. My mate Dave (more jets than you can shake a stick at) has one in his sons AMD Hawk. Amongst others. He's flown loads of times with his and had no problems to my knowledge!
I'll keep you posted on the maiden flight or test run (weather dependant) :)

BiGToP


www.thebigtop.co.uk

[Eric Banner]

[QUOTE=Bigplumbs].....

Also once finished I dont think there is much space in the hawk for a UAT. .....
Dennis

QUOTE]

Lots of space for a UAT if you want to fit one...

E

[Bigplumbs]

Eric

Is that a UAT or just a header tank............. I keep hearing lots of reports about problems with UAT's concerning having to purge the air from them each time you fill up does a simple header tank do almost the same thing and at £40 (why they are so expensive I dont know) I dont want loads of hastle with a UAT

What do you think

Dennis

[bigtop]

Hi Dennis,


I'm not going to fit either. YEs it was a UAT. But the UAT did seem a bit OTT! But you are looking good for the weekend too by the looks of it? Good luck if you do. :)

Back to work now :(

BiGToP

[Eric Banner]

Hi Dennis,

It’s a pucker UAT. I’ve three UAT’s fitted to three different planes and I’ve not had any sort of problem with any of them. Don’t let a couple of £’s influence your equipment choice. BigTop considers it OTT to fit a UAT. £40 to protect a £2000 set-up… I’ll have to agree to differ there.

All the system permutations you’ve seen, both parallel and series tank configuration, UAT_center pickup hopper_center pleated paper hopper all work well if installed correctly, without air leaks, and purged of air.

Some observations:

When using a UAT, keep it full at all times even between flying sessions. An initial ground run a full throttle, with the UAT at 45 deg is usually all that’s necessary to remove any air. (Voy is an exception!). Don’t worry if there is a small bubble of air at the top of the UAT after refuelling, its difficult and not necessary to remove all air. It’s very important to check the UAT or hopper for any increase in the amount of air within it, after every flight. An increase of air tells a story you should listen to.

The basic centre pick up hopper tank is by default less likely to allow any air forward if it stays full and the system stays leak free. If you have a slight air leak or the main clunk picks up air during aerobatics and the hopper starts to collected air, it is then much more likely that a bubble of air can go forward. A UAT on the other hand can fill 2/3rds full of air and still maintain an air free fuel supply to the pump, in my experience. This can give you more opportunity to spot a developing problem or an extra few seconds in the air. The turbine when flaming out always does so in the most awkward possible part of the circuit!

The out of balance effect of side by side series fuel tanks when one tank is empty and the other still full is difficult/impossible to detect by me with my AMD Hawk.

I’ve got a real down on felt clunks having seen them shed air when the turbine is wound up. The felt seems to get re-charged with air when refuelling takes place. The large petrol felt type clunks seam to be the worst. I prefer to have a simple metal clunk feeding the UAT when using dubro tanks.
Having said that about felt clunks, I would always use an Orbit clunk if the tank opening is large enough. These filter/clunks can suck a tank completely dry before picking up air.

Enough rambling from me…

Eric


Eric

Is that a UAT or just a header tank............. I keep hearing lots of reports about problems with UAT's concerning having to purge the air from them each time you fill up does a simple header tank do almost the same thing and at £40 (why they are so expensive I dont know) I dont want loads of hastle with a UAT

What do you think

Dennis

[bigtop]

Thanks for that Eric,

I spoke to A1 yesterday about header tanks and UAT's and they said that they don't use one in thier Hawk and not to bother with one in mine! My friend Dave (more jets that you can shake a stick at) says " euusshhhh...not sure, I've put a header tank in mine?" So really their are a lot of different opinions out there, which has confused me to hell! :o and now to hear you say all that has made it even worse! But many thanks for the imput, it's a pity you never mentioned it earlier....where were you?? ;)


BiGTop

www.thebigtop.co.uk

[Bigplumbs]

Oh heck now we have gotta start worrying about the clunk ???!!!!!!1

Bigtop I am way behing I havn't got any of my turbine gear in yet I just got bogged down in all this tank talk.......... More options than woman on the planet !

Dennis

[Eric Banner]

BT & BP

Just choose one system, any system, and lets go fly…

[Bigplumbs]

BT & BP

Just choose one system, any system, and lets go fly…


That old elastic band running from front to back is looking favourite again lol :D

Dennis

PS My friend who was building his along with mine just got it finished and ran up his turbine..... Scared him half to death he has a Wren 54 in his

Dennis

[xairflyer]

My suggestion and the one I will be following is, find out who has been flying the same aircraft with the same turbine and has had no problems - COPY THAT !

[bigtop]

Hi All,

Well lads this is it for me, tomorrow is the big day. I have taken loads of pictures of my baby (for what she did look like), tomorrow Dave will test run and fly my little Ronnie Red Arrow. I will take some pictures and stuff and hope that it all goes well. Thanks Dennis for all your help I've copied some ideas. I hope that you do well with yours. I'm sorry for thinking that was your front end all finished that other day but I was in a rush and didn't realise it was Eric's plane :rolleyes:
Thanks for everyones tips and hints (confusing some) but thank you.

regards

BiGToP

www.thebigtop.co.uk

p.s. I took a picture on my phone of one of our Red Arrows and Daves Airworld together...funny bless :p

[xairflyer]

Ask Dave what is he planning to fly in the JWM in enniskillen this year (which is 40miles down the road from me) :D

[bigtop]

Ask Dave what is he planning to fly in the JWM in enniskillen this year (which is 40miles down the road from me) :D


Hi xairflyer,

Will do :)

BiGToP

[Bigplumbs]

Waiting on your report with bated breath............. Good luck

Dennis

www.densplanes.co.uk

[xairflyer]

Perfect flying day here in the north west of Ireland was it good for you in the UK for the first flights

[bigtop]

Hi All,

Well today was a bit manic, my cheif test pilot had to be somewhere else after about an hour of me arriving at our site (Dave Stephens who Should be going to jwm). Then I had to make a few adjustments because I made a cock up with my radio/servo set up, I'd forgotten the importance of "Resolution" And when I set up the surfaces, I'd set them up a little on "mechanical" and a little on "End Point (atv)" therefore my servo's didn't have the required tourqe! SO..... I had to move the connection on my servo horns to the second hole from the bottom and the reset all the travels. The only problem was the elevator, being buried in the fuzz under the jetpipe and under a protection plate. Everthing was glued and screwed (No hatch like Dennis's) :(
So he said take it home and do the work :mad: Then my friend Sparkie said "no, I've got a better way.....cut a small hatch in the top of the fuzz and we'll get it from there!" Great idea what a relief :cool: So in the end we done it. Charged up the batteries filled up the two 20oz tanks and Dave took control, mastering the Turbine set up! :) The Wren 44 gold started 1st time and ran as sweet as a nut. Dave let the Fadec learn the throttle then we put the lids on and out we went! Only a very short runway about 20 meters to take off because everywhere was still flooded :( She was up and away little bit of trim here and there and she was whooshing around the sky, she looked great, my heart was pounding out of my chest, like that Roger Rabbit film! A liitle tail heavy Dave said and now the ailerons are sticking when I turn it :confused: He flew for a few more minutes did a slow pass, undercarridge down then came in on his finals, perfect glide slope and touch down. She popped up and down a little because she was tail heavy then came to a stop. phew :rolleyes: The ailerons were moved to the outside hole on the wing horn which was fouling on the aileron servo cover. So I sorted that but Dave (Cheif test pilot) had to go, but before he went I had a few minutes on the ground driving the Hawk around to get used to the delay on the throttle, quite tricky on the wet grass, then it ran out of fuel to which Dave (Cheif test pilot) said "at least that proved your plumbing because you've used every last drop of fuel!" So all work done (couple of oz's lead in the front)and hopefully another test tomorrow. :rolleyes:

BiGToP


www.thebigtop.co.uk

[xairflyer]

Great stuff well done.
What was the factor that made Dave feel it was tail heavy ? where have you the CG

[Bigplumbs]

Excellent to hear Bigtop............... I logged on this morning and scrolled down very slow till I read the word Success even my heart was pounding. I also would like to know where you had the CG and also which holes your horns/clevises finished up on during the flight. I must say I am very pleased to see that you had the success you had. Well done and congratulations.

Dennis

www.densplanes.co.uk

[bigtop]

Hi fellas,

C o G was about right (64mm from engine bay door as per intructions) it felt right but when it was on the table when I lifted the nose it floated down but when I put 1.5 oz lead just in front of the nose wheel steering servo it ame dow quicker. I'll let you know later today how it goes.
Yes Dennis it was a heart pounding moment (and I haven't even flown it yet!) the clevises were clipped onto the top hole of the wing horn on the flaps and the second hole down on the ailerons. And all were on the second hole from the screw on the servo horn.

Chat later


BiGToP


www.thebigtop.co.uk

[EricB]

Hi All,

... Success...

www.thebigtop.co.uk

Magic! :D

Eric

[bigtop]

Hi Fellas

My Hawk had it's second flight today Dave (chief test pilot & more jets than you can shake a stick at) took off and landed it and I BiGToP had a fly around with it, getting used to the feel of how she flys. She flew as smooth a silk, I had her at half throttle and just did smooth circuits. I then slowed her down and gave her full flap still ok, then I slowed her down even more, gave her a bit of up elevator and she tipped a wing, :eek: So I lifted the flaps and throttled up and she was away :) I didn't shake too much, until Dave (chief test pilot & more jets than you can shake a stick at) said to me "be careful don't put to much up elevator in when you bank, keep it nice and smooth, or she'll tip stall!" :eek: Then my thumbs started to quiver a little, had a little more flying around then gave the sticks back to Dave (cheif test pilot & more jets than you can shake a stick at) to land her. B E A utiful landing right down the middle of the runway! :cool: I had a little taxi around the ruway to get the feel for the throttle on tarmac, shut her down and I still had quarter of a tank of fuel (5oz ish) :p So lads, she flies nice and lands nice....all I have to do now is do it all myself! :eek: :eek:

Thanx Dave, you are a star!
pictures courtesy of Sparkie

BiGToP

www.thebigtop.co.uk

[Bigplumbs]

Glad you had a good second flight and you had a go on the sticks. I have been looking at the second pic in your post. I assume that the position of the elevator in the pic is not neautral. Have you a pic of your neautral position. I thought is was with the trailing edge of the elevator level with the corner point of the fus as below is this correct ?.

I also assume Dave's comments re the 'too much elevator' in the bank is at lowish speeds ?

Dennis

[bigtop]

Glad you had a good second flight and you had a go on the sticks. I have been looking at the second pic in your post. I assume that the position of the elevator in the pic is not neautral. Have you a pic of your neautral position. I thought is was with the trailing edge of the elevator level with the corner point of the fus as below is this correct ?.

I also assume Dave's comments re the 'too much elevator' in the bank is at lowish speeds ?

Dennis

Hi Dennis,

Yes you're right the elevator in "Neutral" has the trailing edge level with the top of the fuzz. And yes at slow speeds she does drop a wing. I've put a short video on my website. Go to the planes section and press the button saying " Hawk 17-02-07"
Short but sweet! :p

HOW ARE YOU GETTING ON :confused:
BiGToP


www.thebigtop.co.uk

[Bigplumbs]

Video looks good. She bounced a little on landing looked as if she is still a little tail heavy........ What do you think. The landing was nice a slow... Slower than I expected. I was out flying most of this weekend so got no building done. I will soon start to put the turbine etc in. Had a nice few flights on my P47 anf P40 today... Weather was very bad for visibility. I will keep you posted

Well done again

Dennis