Going, going...

[Terry Lyttle]

Please don't tell me I am the only one NOT flying...

Freeflight is ignored enough without conversation about it going dead here. Freeflight is likely the most individual part of this hobby, just having fun being the main thrust. I would hate to see us lose this forum for lack of use...:(

[steve lewin]

Same problem I have with the the control line forums. There just aren't enough of us individualists around ;).

I confess I haven't flown free flight for ages. I didn't even get anything built for the British Nationals evening mayhem. But if it helps I was very tempted when a friend of mine brought a couple of Rapier powered models out to play yesterday evening. A MIG15 and a FockeWulf something or other. Those little Rapier motors are miles better than the more expensive, less reliable Jetex thingies.

Steve

[JCastle]

Gee.... So far as I know we aren't going anywhere:confused:
Maybe we could get Shawn to round up some loot and we could have a design and fly contest of some sorts:D
I know I tend to do most of my building of FF in the winter when I am feeling spiritual and introspective. By this time of the year I have either lost, broken or retired my projects from the previous winter..
I'm serious about the contest, what do you guys think?


John

[Tony Oliver]

OK, if we're short of f/f, here's a pic (by Ken Croft) of the models I flew at the evening f/f sessions of the UK Nats two weeks ago.

I also fly at RAF Church Fenton on Wednesday evenings whenever flyable during the summer (150 mile round trip).

Tony

[KnifeEdge51]

Currently, all I do is F/F due to the lack of funds for anything else. However, right now I'm limited to Guillows stuff (they're the only cheap company at the LHS!). It's great fun, though. I don't do the gas F/F because I don't have an area large enough to allow this yet, but I'm in the process of converting a "building-in-progress" Guillows Super Cub 95 to electric. That way, I can at least get a good minute or two out of the thing, whereas I only get about 20 seconds with my Mustang (the cute little 17"er). But I don't think I'll be giving F/F up anytime soon. Too much fun. I usually don't visit this forum because there's no traffic. And I usually don't post either, because I don't usually have anything of interest. That might change soon, though. :D

As for a contest, I'm interested, but with a simple electric Guillows craft, I won't be much competition. It'd be fun, though!

Nick

[Terry Lyttle]

Thanks for the postings, guys. Contests are good... Years ago we used to participate in Postals (stone age?), and maybe this is the route to go. I LOVE to see new designs, particularly Scale. What Deadman and these other guys do with blue foam simply astounds me. Once I retire I plan to rip up more than my share of that stuff to use my HiLine motors. Contest? Bring it on!

[davidalan]

heres a couple of pictures taken one wednesday night this summer at church fenton.its a 43 inch cabin model from australia called a hearns hg3. it flies on a geared speed 400.

by the way it is also a 150 mile round trip for me as well, occaisionally if the weather is decent i put a small model in the panniers of my vintage motorbike and have a good ride out, a few hours flying and a meal in the fenton flyer. what better way to spend a summer sunday!!

[davidalan]

i also fly at church fenton, heres my hearns hg3, a 1943 cabin model from australia powered by a speed 400 on a gearbox. sometimes i put a small model in the panniers of my vintage motorbike and have a 150 mile ride out, a few hours flying and a meal in the fenton flyer. what a way to spend a summer sunday!!

P.S. that kwod flies a treat!!

[aeronutz]

Tend to be olde and dont liek computers .....

As I have pointed out many times, free flight aeromodelling is going to be extinct in ten years from now !

Mark

[davidalan]

RUBBISH!!

HOW MANY BIG FREE FLIGHT MEETS DO YOU GO TO A YEAR??

DO YOU GO TO CHURCH FENTON, LINTON,TOPCLIFFE, BARKSTON,LUFFENHAM?

ARE YOU A MEMBER OF SAM 35,1066 OR 0?

ARE YOU ON FFML?

DO YOU GET NAFF NEWS?

[KnifeEdge51]

If there are more like unto myself, under 20 and likes computers (I don't want to get into a computer career, but I can use them efficiently), then it may last a little longer. I think because I got into the hobby with free flight, I'm going to have one heck of a time dropping it. Besides, I've just gotten started on my FF adventure. I haven't (yet) ventured into Peanut (very shortly here I will), or F1D (that will be soon as well). As long as I'm around, there'll be at least one loyal FF flyer in the world!

Nick R.

[Tony Oliver]

Now hold on a little!

I suspect 'Aeronutz' is having a bit of a wind up here.

If he isn't, I think I'll set Jim Carolan onto him (- I posted an innocent question on the BMFA website about control-line but it was taken the wrong way by oversensitive c/l people who took it as a personal attack)

If the present trend continues, there will be relatively few f/f modellers around - even John O'Donnell is saying that now.

There are youngsters in f/f - Church Fenton, the Nationals and comps around the country prove that, but the numbers are very small.

Some reasons for this are;-

1 It's not easy and instant to get success
2 The access to suitable flying areas is no longer very easy or convenient
3 There is no 'street cred' in doing it
4 There is not a lot of people with experience/ knowledge who are willing or able to help
5 It seems more difficult now for young people to be 'unconventional' and step outside what they and their peer group know and take on minority interests without feeling left out of things.
6 There's a higher possibility of failure so most will not even try

You can lead a horse to water.........

Meanwhile I will continue to fly f/f because it is fun; I will continue to subscribe to NAFF because it's fun; and I will continue to use my computer because it helps with my modelling, and it too is fun.

It's still a funny world.

Tony

[steve lewin]

Pardon my no doubt abysmal ignorance but what's a NAFF ? What's a SAM ? What's a FFML ? I wonder if the lack of intelligible communication has anything with people not finding and following this little bit of the aeromodelling hobby ;) ?

Actually I know what SAM and the FF mailing list are but I've really never heard of NAFF.

I find the whole concept of SAMs a bit depressing, worshipping all that old stuff. Why not design new models ? I can't believe real modelling stopped 50 years ago.

I'm not on the FFML because I just don't have the time for old fashioned email lists. Are there any (other) good FF web forums using relatively up to date technology ?

I think Tony is, sadly, right. There's little chance of many new faces in FF because RC is simply more accessible and more practical. I rather like the idea of knowing where my models will land ;). I don't like the idea of needing a full size RAF base to fly on. I'm afraid my FF career is likely to stick to indoor and the Nats evening sessions for the forseeable future. CL and RC are much easier to get on with outdoors.

Steve

[Terry Lyttle]

I am old enough to have magazines (50s) predicting just that, later issues predicting the demise of c/l; so much for the pundits and soothsayers!

I fly everything I can afford to. I have space available to fly D freeflight power, too lazy now to walk that far. I have the space to fly Ebenezer scale, gonna do that next spring. I fly slope a lot, because there is a 2,000' ridge a couple of miles away. I am negotiating with the school to fly peanut/ihlg/pennyplane/indoor r/c in our Canadian winter. Freeflight is NOT dead, never will be. Freeflight is not for everyone, and there will always be people whose curiosity will drive them to this independent part of the hobby, reardless of the pundits.

I had the honour(!) of attending an Old Warden freeflight scale contest some years back; an unforgettable experience. Along with the incredible models there, I ran across an older gent and his wife, her sitting in a folding chair, dozing in the sun, he was trying to start his diesel model, the one he built in a closet workspace, and only tried to fly once a year, at Old Warden. I offered some assistance, and we got the old Frog running. He launched, it flew, and forever I will remember his Missus awaking and shouting, "Its flying! Its flying!"

With memories like that, freeflight will never die in my heart, and I am sure that all you guys will carry your own memorable moments as you keep building and flying, regardless of what the pundits say.

Oops, preachy, ain't I? sorry...

[KnifeEdge51]

While I don't do any of the "long-range" FF stuff (I'm stuck to rubber power and short electric flight due to lack of space within a short driving distance), I do FF for all of the reasons Tonyo listed. :D Without all the challenges and (sometimes) set-backs, modelling of any kind just wouldn't be worth it to me. I live for the challenge. I love to solve all the little intricacie and problems associated with modelling. It makes you think and challenge your mind. Besides that, I love to work with my hands, and FF models are usually light, and simple in construction, so they go together fast (unless your trying to do your first scale electric model! :D). And, Tonyo, what IS NAFF? I'd like in!

Nick R.

[davidalan]

NAFFN is the northern area free flight news, an excellent publication centred around the lads from morley club that run comps in bmfa northern area

i too like a challenge. i build small electric models and the occaisional one up to about 48 inch. i have never built an i.c. model up till now, so i am going in at the deep end and going for a challenger from 1941 powered by an ohlsson 23!

my small models are flown on 3 football pitches at the bottom of the lane as it is only 5 mins away. its a case of look at local playing fields and build something suitable.

i like to get up at 6 o,clock on a summer sunday morning and go and have a couple of hours flying and then come home for bacon butties and a cup of tea!!

[Tony Oliver]

Sorry folks - I was answering David Alan's reply.

Northern Area Free-Flight News is an occasional newsletter of around 4 or 5 per year - edition 59 Autumn 2002 is the most recent - now edited by Ian Wilkinson (01904339032). It was, I think, originated by John Godden who handed it over to Ian last issue.

It has a relaxed format which has news of coming contests and fly-ins, comp results, contacts, and plans. There are also articles by assorted groups and individuals. The latest issue has a model made from giant hogweed (I kid you not!); a basic introduction for an electric freeflighter for E30; a plan for Dave Hipperson's T34 SLOP (Slow Open Power) - an interesting mix.

Tony

[KnifeEdge51]

Does NAFF tend to Midwestern Americans? :D

Nick R.

[mr.zagi5c]

theres so much talk of freeflight being dead in this thread.... it makes me sad.... well lets not let that happen....

[bolmas]

free flight certainly isnt dead, but here in england we dont have the wide open spaces that are available in america.

[Applehoney]

The 'wide open spaces' in America are largely in the West and South West and even they are endangered. Gardner Field, at Taft, is/was owned by Chevron Oil who kindly turned a blind eye to modellers using it over decades .. but put it, and the surrounding areas, up for sale recently. There was a rumour that an RC flyer living in Taft (who owns the town dump!) was attempting to form a consortium to purchase Gardner but whether model flying would still continue if he/they were succesful; was unknown. A biker club was interested in the hills next to it ... hmm.

Lost Hills flying field is privately owned by modellers but there is now a deal of exploratory irrigation for crop planting going on at its borders, so the available chasing space could be getting more restricted in the future.

Palm Bay, Florida - a huge failed housing development - is now the subject of an expensive survey for future development so it's future is probably shortlived.

AMA Muncie site - a two-minute field in most conditions, with crops around it (maize/corn/soya prevalent) and AMA have put rheir buildings more centrally than at a side. Good planning ...

Most flying sites are relatively small - Geneseo is smaller than Church Fenton, for example and the 8-10' cornfields are commonly surrounding much of it.

In Canada - Ontario, anyway - no flying site since the old Gananoque airfield went under the plough some years ago. 250 mile drive to Geneseo, now.

The UK is very fortunate in having access to CF, Middle Wallop, Barkston, etc. and all within easy travelling distance (by N.American standards!)

[youyou]

Im in!!

[bolmas]

interesting jim, i always thought the american sites were a lot bigger.as you know we are not getting a lot of flying at church fenton, so i am tending to do more radio at the moment.

[Applehoney]

Radio? what's radio?? Radio Leeds?? (if that's still going, that is!) :)

[Tony Oliver]

He must be talking about tracker bugs! He can't be talking about (gulp!) R/C, can he?

Tony (surreptitiously pushing transmitter behind the monitor)

:)

[Tony Oliver]

Just to show what is at risk, a pic taken of ChF earlier this year - Wednesday evening - dead calm - and space to fly out a full tank and land within the field.

There are at least two days over the Christmas holidays when the field is likely to be available.

Tony

[Applehoney]

Lucky so-and-so's .. says he, more or less grounded until end of June

Who are the guys - is that Stan Horne on the right?

[moon]

Nope, ain't gonna happen.

I can tell you that for all the reasons you give for it dying, a reason can be given as to why it will live.

The internet is connecting flyers all around the globe and we are able to share info, plans, distrubute, network, publicize much better.
Many FF'ers consider this a "golden age" for FF.

The same technologies that allow you to fly tiny RC models allow us to use electric FF and ducted fan etc. A whole new world of subjects has opened up for us to model that might've been impossible before.

FF is cheap, challenging and easy to access now (thanks to forums like this). There are many people joining in the hobby. Many revisit after having been away for sometime (and build with their children, me included).
I've met a few young guys and their sons flying. And on the internet there are a few fine young men that also prove that the hobby is very alive.

I don't think we can compare the hobby to earlier times when people could pick from several titles at the local newsstand and read about aviation, adventurers and models. This simply isn't the case for people today, but they are finding their way to the hobby. As are some of the older gents that want to give the challenge of rubber FF another try after flying C/L, R/C etc.

I think if you look into it a bit more, you'll be amazed at the enthusiasm and devotion held by FF'ers for the hobby. Some of us simply like to fly free.
Give it a try and maybe you'll be hooked too. :)

Kevin Mooney

[moon]

Gee.... So far as I know we aren't going anywhere:confused:
Maybe we could get Shawn to round up some loot and we could have a design and fly contest of some sorts:D
I know I tend to do most of my building of FF in the winter when I am feeling spiritual and introspective. By this time of the year I have either lost, broken or retired my projects from the previous winter..
I'm serious about the contest, what do you guys think?


John

Hi John
I'd be interested. Not that I need and excuse to build. Also, Applehoney is hosting a Kiel Kraft Senator postal event and I believe there are prizes/cash to be awarded! I'll let him give the details on that. He has posted the info on another thread in this forum already.

Kevin

[Applehoney]

Senator Postal - just check down the list of Forum subjects for 'KeilKraft Senator' for full details. Yes, a cash prize for 1st.... and I just had a generous donation towards a 2nd. prize; happy to receive more to 'swell the pot(s)' JM

[Applehoney]

Actually, the listing merely gives a link to a website page so... here's the full thing.

KeilKraft “SENATOR” Global Postal Challenge

January 1st – December 31st 2005

First kitted by KeilKraft in 1950, the ‘Senator’ has become recognised as an excellent design that combines simple robust structure with outstanding performance. Very popular in British ‘Vintage’ events, it also can do well in North American ‘Category III’ classes – Nostalgia Rubber, Moffett and Mulvihill, etc. for which 120 second maximums are a formality and it can be taken well past 180 seconds with little extra effort.

There is no entry fee. The winner will receive a minimum prize of US$80.00, or the equivalent in any other currency – the final sum will reflect exchange rates at the close of the event but presently equates to approximately C$100, £45.00, A$110.00, NZ$120.00, etc. Further enhancement of this sum and/or provision of further prizes is dependent upon any donations received. The lengthy timescale of this Postal is to permit any modeller an opportunity to participate, no matter where in the world they might be located.

Models are to conform to the standard Senator kit plan; the structure may be amended only for the purposes of D/T installation – whether tipping stabiliser (LE down), tipping wing or hinged rear fuselage – and the undercarriage leg may be removable for storage/carrying purposes. Glazing of the ‘cabin’ is optional. Any freewheel propellor up to a maximum of 13” diameter may be used and there are no restrictions on rubber motor size/weight.

Three flights shall be made to a 120 second maximum. If three Maximums are achieved, then successive flights may be made with the maximum increasing by 60 seconds on each occasion, until the target time is not realised e.g. 120. 120. 120. 180. 240. 211 = Total Score 991 seconds
All flights to be pre-nominated to a timekeeper; the initial three should be made on the same day but successive flyoff flights may be made at the flyer’s discretion, similarly timed.

A plan may be viewed at http://members.rogers.com/hunter8477/ with a download also available, or contact me in the event of difficulties, or with any questions that you might have..
Entries/scores may be forwarded to me at any time and I will endeavour to keep particpants informed with regular interim updates as well as a final report and result sheet, which will be further publicised as widely as possible. Accompanying anecdotes and photographs would be very welcome and are encouraged.

I hope that you will give this event your support and also encourage others to participate. The ‘Senator’ is a viceless airplane, easy to build and to fly with very satisfying performance; my only advice is to keep the structure aft of the CG as light as possible to reduce the need for any nose ballast to a minimum.

Happy Flying!

Jim Moseley 19 Banner Crescent, Ajax, Ontario L1S 3S8, Canada

jjmoseley@look.ca (905) 683-3014

[Tony Oliver]

Yes - Stan Horne it is!

Kevin - your upbeat approach is the right way - there is an upsurge of interest. However, as in most things in life, it needs visible demonstration of what can be achieved, and even more it needs to be made obvious how much sheer fun and enjoyment it can provide.

Freeflight is 'different' and that is an attraction in itself.

The UK magazine AMI has the centre pages (twenty of them in the latest issue)devoted to what used to be Aeromodeller Magazine relating to F/F and C/L modelling. I think that novel approach could be extended to other mags to spread the word. Most F/F practitioners have other modelling interests so it will hardly be an onerous or specialist task for editors to include some F/F and C/L content. Unfortunately there's not much money to be made in F/F so it remains sidelined - like this forum, I suspect.

Tony

[Applehoney]

Tony - please say 'Hi', on my behalf, to Stan, John Godden, Davitts, Tom Hargreaves and the 'old crowd' when you're at CF next. Ta, mate!

[TLyttle]

Right, Tony, we will always be around, but always relegated to the fringe as "not real modelling", or "beginner's models".

The piggybacking of Aeromodeller in AMI seems to be quite normal; didn't Aeromodeller piggyback an older publication in the 50s, maybe Model Builder or somesuch? I do know that the plan system still carries some of the old plans in their "X" series catalogue (if that still exists!). I think it's great as it keeps up the continuity of (usually) good magazines that just fell on bad times. I wish that someone (Flying Models, for instance) had picked up Model Builder's setup when it went bust.

[Applehoney]

'Model Aircraft' was merged with Aeromodeller 'back then' - 60s? Yes, the X-List service does still exist. AMI is an expensive import in Canada and the relatively small A/M section amongst the sea of RC trivia isn't worth the price; I scan through it in the booksellers with the idea of purchasing if I see something I really feel I'd like to have. So far ... nothing .... free plans don't interest me as I only build other's designs in Vintage/OT and Nostalgia.

[martin richards]

Thanks Steve. You inspired me to do a google on "rapier". Looks like a lot of fun and brought back some memories of sheet gliders with a Jetex 50.