ClearViewRC T-REX Tweaks

[MartyWakat]

I wanted to know if anyone had some T-REX parameter tweaks to make the heli fly more like the real thing. I have adjusted my throttle and pitch curves to match my actual setup and I have heard about the DeltaAngle=50.0 being a recommended change to make it more like the real thing.

Does anyone else have some tweaks for the T-REX450XL? I am not using the easy one but the regular 450XL. Also if anyone has some other custom T-REX450XL models for Clearview, I would love to get a copy of the models file.

Thanks

[skirtz]

I have TRex 450 XL pretty much stock and the ClearView TRex flies pretty much like mine. What is that you find different compared to your Trex?

Here Ken added G4 Trex (quite cool) on his website:
http://home.bellsouth.net/p/s/community.dll?ep=87&subpageid=247392&ck=


Stefan
http://rcflightsim.com

[MartyWakat]

I have TRex 450 XL pretty much stock and the ClearView TRex flies pretty much like mine. What is that you find different compared to your Trex?

Here Ken added G4 Trex (quite cool) on his website:
http://home.bellsouth.net/p/s/community.dll?ep=87&subpageid=247392&ck=

Stefan
http://rcflightsim.com

I have the yellow T-REX450XL model but did not see that other one there. Must have been loaded up recently.

I have not done that much flying on my T-REX450XL in real life so I am not comparing it too much. I had just heard thats some adjustments were made to make it closer to real life and I wanted to make sure I had everything as good as I could. One thing I noticed after I turned off the governor mode is that the tail rudder seems to twitch every now and again. Its not a big twitch, but definately noticeable. I tried bumping the gain up from 15 to 25 and did not seem to make a diferrence.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

[skirtz]

I have the yellow T-REX450XL model but did not see that other one there. Must have been loaded up recently.

I have not done that much flying on my T-REX450XL in real life so I am not comparing it too much. I had just heard thats some adjustments were made to make it closer to real life and I wanted to make sure I had everything as good as I could. One thing I noticed after I turned off the governor mode is that the tail rudder seems to twitch every now and again. Its not a big twitch, but definately noticeable. I tried bumping the gain up from 15 to 25 and did not seem to make a diferrence.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

When you turn the governor off, the head speed is not coinstant anymode and the tail will not stay put as well as with governor ( this is the main reason to use governor), so that is normal behavior. If you have a simulator where is no difference between governor on and governor off, the problem is that the flight model for that simulator is not good enough. This is not the case in ClearVIew, where the tail dynamics and the rotor mass are properly simulated (as well as many many other things). As I said, I fly my TRex quite often and ClearVuew TRex is pretty much like mine.

Stefan
http://rcflightsim.com

[MartyWakat]

When you turn the governor off, the head speed is not coinstant anymode and the tail will not stay put as well as with governor ( this is the main reason to use governor), so that is normal behavior. If you have a simulator where is no difference between governor on and governor off, the problem is that the flight model for that simulator is not good enough. This is not the case in ClearVIew, where the tail dynamics and the rotor mass are properly simulated (as well as many many other things). As I said, I fly my TRex quite often and ClearVuew TRex is pretty much like mine.

Stefan
http://rcflightsim.com

I have been told to turn off the govenor on my actual ESC. Is the Gyro govenor and the ESC governor two different things? If they are the same and I would expect to get the same glitching in real life....would I not also want to turn the govenor on in real life.

[skirtz]

I have been told to turn off the govenor on my actual ESC. Is the Gyro govenor and the ESC governor two different things? If they are the same and I would expect to get the same glitching in real life....would I not also want to turn the govenor on in real life.

There is no such think as gyro governor. The esc has a governor mode thatis reffer as governor. The reason for turning the governor off is that esc governors are rather poorly implemented and get into resonance with the tail /gyro settings. A good speed controller with a governor will allways beat simular setup with no governor. A speed control with poor governor will make your tail oscilate and you may not be able to get proper gyro amplification. That is why is recommended if you have aligh or CC speed control to turn the governor off, so you can crank up the gyro gain and have s stable tail.

Stefan
http://rcflightsim.com

[Tr0gTX]

Hi Stefan,

I have purchased Clearview and so far am very happy. I liked the emphasis you seemed to place on modeling Heli flight, so I bought it to practice hovering my TREX450XL. I am glad to hear that it is similar to the real thing. I think it is a sensational value for USD $30.

I have a question for you. I believe 4.60 comes with a couple of TREX models, and Ken has a Yellow TREX on his page. Which are you referring to when you say that it flys the same as your real TREX?

I ask because I find that one of the TREXs is much harder to hover and is more sensitive than the others. (I think it is Ken's Yellow one, but I am not sure - not at my home PC right now) I wish to practice on the most realistic one!

Also, do you have any recommendations for setting up realistic weather? There are a lot of choices! (What weather config do you use? Any other tips or tricks?)

[skirtz]

Hi Tr0gTX,

I am glad you like ClearView. I am sure it will help you a lot learning to fly your TRex. Regarding your question, I was reffering to the TRex model that comes with ClearView. I have flown Ken's model and it flies really well. It flies a little different - as you would expect because he set it up to be similar to the one he has with that G4 frame. Regarding the weather, I would use very small values for wind speed - like 0.5 and 30% turbulence just to create normal outside low wind environment. I personally don't like flying in wind and will not use more than 1 m/s.

Stefan
http://rcflightsim.com

[Tr0gTX]

Thanks Stefan - I'll try those settings.

Also, I tried using my TX with the same settings as I use for my TREX (throttle and pitch curves, etc) but it doesnt fly the sim TREX at all - very odd behavior in fact.I suspect that this may be due to the fact my 450XL is CCPM, and perhaps the Clearview models are something else?

How should I fix this so that I can fly the sim TREX using the same TX as my real TREX? Is there a way I can alter the model, or must I re-program my TX?

Thanks for the help.

[skirtz]

ClearView utilized so called "Software Tx".

For every model, ClearView keeps the proper radio settings for that model. You configure the settings in the advanced setup pretty much using the same principals as when you set the same parameters on a computer radio. Thanks to the "Software Tx", you do not need to change the model in your Tx each time you load different model in the simulator. If you think about it, in real life, before turning on a new model, you must select that model from the radio memory (or set a new model if you have not done so). That get's in your way when flying simulator, and therefore the software radio tx is a convenient way to avoid this.

There is one think that you have to do at the beginning:

- Select an empty model, name that model "Sim Model" and then set the curves as line from 0 to 100, set no expo, and 100% travel. You can use dual rates if you choose so.

Anytime you use ClearView, use that model. It is actually easier than it sounds. For non programmable radios this is non issue anyway because they transmit the channel information unmixed anyway.


Stefan
http://rcflightsim.com

[Tr0gTX]

So, I can just select an empty slot on my TX (no model, mixing, throttle curves, etc.) when I use it to fly in Clearview, and the sim should take care of the rest?

EDIT: I tried this, and the TREX still doesn't seem to want to fly inverted... I'll keep tweaking; I found the full documentation on your website so still trying to get it working how I "think" it should.

[skirtz]

Yes, select empty slot in the Tx, set it as sim model and use it. To fly inverted, make sure IdleUp is ON.

[Tr0gTX]

Stefan,

Got it all dialled in and working great! Thanks for the tips!

EDIT: PS. what is the difference between the TREX450 and the TREX450EASY?

[skirtz]

The real stock TRex 450XL with the Aligh 430 motor and 11 toot pinion flies quite well for a heli this size at 2400 head speed. Flying well is a relative description in this case. The fact is, it is really hard to control it initially even for someone who have flown glow helis - they are so much more stable and the stuff happens slower. Beginners will have quite hard time if TRex is their first heli (I am not saying it is not good choice, it is the best heli of that size right now IMHO). Small electrics require very fast reflexes and some anticipation what will happen next. To people who have not flown TRex-like model, the "normal" TRex simulation will feel too hard, so I used somewhat mellow settings to make the heli easier to control. Also, the ground effect is disabled so the heli can hang in the air with less corrective action (which is not the case with TRex or any small heli).

Stefan
http://rcflightsim.com

[Tr0gTX]

Stefan,

So out of the 4 TREX models I have for Clearview:
-- 450XL (included in CV)
-- 450XL EASY (included in CV)
-- 450 XL Yellow (from Ken's page)
-- 450 XL G4 (from Ken's page)

Which would you say is the most like the stock 450 with CCPM?

I can fly all of these very well in the sim, with the exception of the 450 XL Yellow, from Kens page - it is very very sensitive, and I always end up over-compensating and penduluming.

If it is closest to what the real thing is like, then I have more practicing to do, but if the real thing is more like the others, I am good to go.

[skirtz]

This is a hard question. Let me start with this:

- Imagine that you and I build the same stock helicopter with the same components and have the same radio system. Let's imagine, we are in two different rooms and set up the helicopters, each doing the setup as he understand it and thinks it should be done. I will tell you that most likely than not, the two helicopters will fly differently. Here is why:

1. Servo travel - some people go to great lengths to ensure as big as possible servo travel to get maximum swash deflection for 3d.
2. Max pitch and pitch curve setup - I for example use rather low max pitch so my heli will not climb as other that use high max pitch. The reason I use low max pitch is I don't want my head to bog down if I screw a 3d maneuver - then if you are in thight spot and apply full power to get out, the max pitch if is to high will bog the heli, swing the tail and will crash.
3. Throttle curve set, is it in idle up or normal, what the normal head speed is and what the idle head speed is.
4. How loose the ball links are - I like mine free of any friction - it results in easy to hover heli. Any frictions here will male it twitchy.
5. Gyro gain - the gain will go higher if the blades are balanced and in perfect tracking. Locked tail make huge difference how heli will feel.
6. Tight tail belt will rob the power and here another flight difference
7. Not enough pinion/main gear clearance - robs power, effect on flight behavior again.


As you can see, no two helis are born equal. I like how mine TRex 450 is set in ClearView, but that is my personal opinion and I am sure Ken's flies pretty much like his real ones. My advice is, they all fly really well. Don't over fixate what to fly - to learn to drive a car, you need a car. You don't need to learn on exactly the same car model. Any motor skills are transferable. If Curtis takes your heli, I bet he will fly it quite well. The goal is to build eye to hand coordination. At the end, you have to transfer the flight sim experience to the real heli. The sim helps to start the learning process if used the same as you would fly the real model. To master your flying skills, you will need real flight time. I think the best is to alternate real heli and one of the sim's helis that feels closest. Just don't do on the sim any manuevers that you have no intention to do on a real model soon. Just keep the sim ONE step farther than the real model and you will be amazed how fast you can progress.

Stefan
http://rcflightsim.com

[Tr0gTX]

thanks for the detailed answers, Stefan - I appreciate your patience. It seems that simulated helis are every bit as complicated to grasp as their real-life counterparts!

[skirtz]

Yes they are. Not so long ago (well, let say 20 years ago) it took almost a year to average person to learn to fly number 8 in forward flight and many never got far away from hovering tail in waist high. The simulators are the main reason for getting the helicopters in the mainstream (together with the heading hold gyros and cheap electric helis). Now, when you go to any field with more than 3 flyers, you will likelly see someone doing some form of 3d which was unheard of some time ago.

Stefan
http://rcflightsim.com