Am I nuts or simply cheap?

[Fokker Ace]

OK, no need to answer the nuts part but I got a chance to mess with FS One at the LHS and was very uninspired. I've also played with RealFlight at the LHS and feel pretty much the same about it too.

Maybe I'm completely missing the point, but I downloaded FMS along with some planes and landscapes and to my eye it doesn't look or feel that much worse than one of the $200 sims mentioned above. I don't have a connection for a Tx on FMS yet, but see where I can get one (I think if you have some electonics skills they are simple to build) for about $35. Still a lot less than the price of the commercial sims.

Maybe I don't have the experience to know the difference, but flying FS One and then flying FMS wasn't a huge jump. Don't get me wrong, if the boxed sims were the price of "normal" game software I'd get one. But when there are free programs out there that are decent I can't see spending the extra money - though I've been slightly tempted by Real Flight.

[Looooeeee!]

I had the pleasure of introducing a hobbyshop owner, (who also did computer repair..) to FMS while he was minding the store. I showed him the website, and he downloaded the program.

The first words out of his mouth, after installing FMS and setting up a cheap gamepad for control, were. "This is a freeware sim?"

And of course there's RC-Sim.de which hosts a bunch of add-ons for 2.85, and if you're a vintage scale nut like me there's a bunch of WWI era models, ( Eh-herm..) there.

( I might have something to do with most of them being there, it's just an ugly rumour though. )

[Airtronic]

I agree that for some basic manuevers things such as FMS can be a useful tool.

The only sim that has impressed me so far has been Phoenix (www.phoenix-sim.com). I'm certain that you will see a big jump from FMS to that, and its also cheaper than the other main simulators.

[Ade]

i can understand you being uninspired by fsone and g3. However dont tar all the sims with the same brush. as Airtronic said, phoenix is a great sim with a bunch of active modelers advancing the sim all the time both in physics and functionality.

Ade

[pmackenzie]

I agree that for some basic manuevers things such as FMS can be a useful tool.

The only sim that has impressed me so far has been Phoenix (www.phoenix-sim.com). I'm certain that you will see a big jump from FMS to that, and its also cheaper than the other main simulators.
Link is "broken". (Brackets are in the wrong place)
Try this :
www.phoenix-sim.com
Pat MacKenzie

[pmackenzie]

The Pheonix page says to check out Tower for the sim, but I was not able to find it there.
If you hit the "Order Direct" button in the Pheonix site, it times out.
Whats up with that :confused:
Pat MacKenzie

[Airtronic]

Thanks for that pmackenzie, I've fixed it on my post too :)

I found it on the tower hobbies site here:

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXPNM8&P=7

They've only just started selling it, but on the plus side its bundled with the futaba square lead which makes it seriously good value!

[pmackenzie]

Oops. I guess it is just me who spells Phoenix with the o and e reversed :o
Thanks,
Pat MacKenzie

edit- Strange thing is, the Tower search engine turns up some Phoenix items with the wrong spelling Pheonix entered into the search engine, but not all of them!
Had it turned up nothing I might have noticed my typo.

[fredeich]

I don't understand how you can think FMS is any good. I tried it and thought it was about 4 or 5 generations old. I uninstalled it as not worth the time to boot up. I guess it depends what you want.

I have been impressed by both Real Flight and FS One. I also look forward to Phoenix, but it needs to have a good slope soaring model for me. The slope model seems excellent in FS One.
Fred

[skirtz]

OK, no need to answer the nuts part but I got a chance to mess with FS One at the LHS and was very uninspired. I've also played with RealFlight at the LHS and feel pretty much the same about it too.

Maybe I'm completely missing the point, but I downloaded FMS along with some planes and landscapes and to my eye it doesn't look or feel that much worse than one of the $200 sims mentioned above. I don't have a connection for a Tx on FMS yet, but see where I can get one (I think if you have some electonics skills they are simple to build) for about $35. Still a lot less than the price of the commercial sims.

Maybe I don't have the experience to know the difference, but flying FS One and then flying FMS wasn't a huge jump. Don't get me wrong, if the boxed sims were the price of "normal" game software I'd get one. But when there are free programs out there that are decent I can't see spending the extra money - though I've been slightly tempted by Real Flight.

In addition to FMS, I would reccoment you to check my program - ClearView RC Flight Simulator (http://rcflightsim.com) While not free as FMS, it is only $30 and has free demo time so you can form informed opinion if that is what you are looking for.

Stefan
http://rcflightsim.com

[Fokker Ace]

I don't understand how you can think FMS is any good. I tried it and thought it was about 4 or 5 generations old. I uninstalled it as not worth the time to boot up. I guess it depends what you want.


Free vs. $200 for products I don't feel simulate real world conditions - that's why I say FMS is decent. Yes, it may not look as good as the others, but I found some great photo-realistic scenery (they even look very much like where I fly) and very nice aircraft models (inluding one that I fly) and when it's running it's not that different.

It's not so much that I think the store bought sims are "bad" just way overpriced. I also don't want any of the "games" that come with the sims or other features I feel are mostly gimmicks.

[Ade]

200usd? phoenix is 160

Ade

[fredeich]

Fokker Ace

You are right about the price. It is overpriced by a lot. The problem I guess is a relatively limited market compared to the gamer market. For example you can buy the most sophiscated game of 5 or 6 CD's for less than $60.00, and you are talking about 1000's of man hours to produce it.
Fred

[slipstick]

200usd? phoenix is 160

Ade
But FMS is still free, zero, nothing i.e. a lot cheaper ;).

I've tried most of the commercial sims (but not Phoenix yet) and they're all impressive in various ways but no sim is ever going to be identical to real flying. Apart from anything else I don't normally fly with a box over my head with a small rectangular hole cut out of the front which is the effect of condensing the world onto a screen ;).

My heli-flying friends tell me sims are vitally important, particularly when learning, but I have no interest in helicopters. For fixed wing they can be useful but, for me at least, the practical difference between FMS and the expensive ones is nowhere near enough to be worth the cost of a couple of kits or motors or 3 or 4 new batteries etc.

So given all that, I find FMS is perfectly adequate for my needs which are mainly keeping my hand in when it's too dark, cold or wet out in the real world. I use it with SmartPropoPlus which means the cost of connecting my Tx to the sim is almost nothing (one 3.5mm jack lead).

Steve

[perttime]

FMS is certainly pretty good value for money :)

It helped me a lot with a couple of important points before I committed my first plane to air:
- the orientation, or point of view, when the plane is flying towards me
- a plane may stall if I let it slow down too much

[Fokker Ace]

My first plane was a Gentle Lady kit I built over 10 years ago. I tought myself to fly it as I wasn't close to any clubs and kind of like to do my own thing. I'm not sure what commercial RC sims were sold at the time - if any - so I made my own sim. I had a copy of MS Flight Simulator and "built" a plane I thought would be something like an RC flier and set up the sim so I could fly from a fixed position on the ground. That way, using a joystick, I was able to get a feel for orientation.

It worked great. Even though I got out of the hobby soon after I started flying the glider (I just started flying again a few months ago) I still have that Gentle Lady as it survived many flights without a crash and hopefully will soon be airborn again when I buy new electronics for it and slap a brushless on the front.

For me, FMS is a cheap way to get back in the swing of flying. Growing up playing video games helps too. As mentioned, the big sims may be great for helis but I feel the best sim is no match for the real thing mostly because of how different looking at a screen is compared to being out in the field.

[C!ph3r]

I have to agree with you Fokker Ace. I am very a very new heli pilot. So new in fact my new TREX 450 is in the mail on its way. I really want to get a sim but with the cost of my heli once completed the cost of a commercial sim is a lot to swallow. In fact, there are some RTF heli kits out there that are cheaper than some sims. Why not just buy one of them and have at it? Granted there will be some time to get back in the air after a crash but oh well. at least you would be flying in a real environment. I dunno. Although the Clearview looks really good from the screen shots on the site. But what do I know. I am a total newb.

just my 2 cents.

[IPFlyer]

Download the Clearview demo.

[Metalstar]

The issue with just going to buy a new heli/plane to learn on for the price of a sim. Instead of a sim is that alot of people (especially in the UK at this time of year) work during all the daylight hours and only get chance to fly on weekends . . . and then its usually very windy or raining!

Maybe some will get more value out of a quality sim than they would out of a second heli/plane at this time of year?

If the free ones help you keep your hand in then its a bonus they are such good value for money :)

I've just paid for one, but i'm very new to it and i hope it will help when i take the plunge and get my own.

[Ade]

your all going to call be biased when i say this. However, before phoenix i owned reflex xtr and before that FMS.

when your learn to fly its about training your brain to control the heli automatically if you have to think about every stick input that takes more time any sim will help with that.

theres another issue tho. If the model doesnt move like the real thing then the clues your brain gets from seeing the model move around arent the same as the real thing than you will very quickly find that your brain is learning the wrong stick movement. sure its going the right way but the quantities and when you need to move the stick are wrong.

in a lot of cases this can actually cause more problems than not using the sim at all. I found this happened first on FMS very early on. I got xtr and it lasted a bit longer and was the best around at the time. Phoenix is the first sim that is close enough to the real thing for me to not cause me these problems.

Ade

[mmormota]

I second ClearView. Good physics and graphics, great price.
Consider Phoenix, while it is more expensive, it's the best value money can buy.

If you fly your real T-Rex, a single crash costs more then ClearView, and 3-4 average crashes costs you the Phoenix. In the first weeks-months every heli pilot crashes a lot. If you avoid a few crashes because of sim practice, you save a lot.

[racin06]

I have to agree with you Fokker Ace. I am very a very new heli pilot. So new in fact my new TREX 450 is in the mail on its way. I really want to get a sim but with the cost of my heli once completed the cost of a commercial sim is a lot to swallow. In fact, there are some RTF heli kits out there that are cheaper than some sims. Why not just buy one of them and have at it? Granted there will be some time to get back in the air after a crash but oh well. at least you would be flying in a real environment. I dunno. Although the Clearview looks really good from the screen shots on the site. But what do I know. I am a total newb.

just my 2 cents.

I am also a total newby and I am waiting for my airplane and heli to arrive at my door. I went ahead and purchased FS One 5 days ago. Regarding the helis, I'm currently training myself in FS One by going through Radd's School of Rotary Flight. I can tell you this, the helis in FS One behave exactly like Radd tells you the real helis behave. I'm just to the point of where I can hold the tail between the 5 and 7 o'clock position and hover for a few minutes. As soon as I complete Radd's school on the sim, I'm going to complete the school all over again with my real heli.

I think the $200 for FS One is money well spent and will probably save me some heli crash repairs in the future.