Wing Dragon / Sportster

[Fluffy Monster]

Are there any other Wing Dragon / Sportster owners out their?

I bought my Sportster a while ago but have finally got around to flying it. This is my first attempt at R/C planes but so far it has been fun. After about a dozen flights I am hooked but unfortunately at this time of year in Melbourne, the weather is not that beginner friendly (all ways :censored: windy!).

I have been flying my Sportster with the standard wing (no ailerons) and having great success. As a first plane and self taught, it seems very easy to fly, recovers from stalls well and can fly at a slow pace.

There seems to be a bit written about them in US threads but I have not seen anything in Australia. Mine has worked well with the only two mods I have done to it so far is epoxy the wings together and replace the connectors with Dean's.

My single biggest issue is flight time duration. I would love to get longer flights so when the weather is good, I can really practice.

Has anyone else had experience with the Wing Dragon? Has anyone changed the motor/batteries etc to get longer flight time? The cheapest option would be to just upgrade the motor (and ESC) to brushless, but would I get significant air time increase or should I just purchase more battery packs (8 cell NiMh).

[nator_au]

A cheapo ebay special brushless and ESC would get you longer flight times, probably somewhere around 20% extra.
Adding a LiPo battery into the mix will increase that again, especially if you are just cruising around.

brett

[bigkid]

I have fitted a small brushless outrunner, 7x5 prop, 18A ESC and 2200mAh 3 cell lipoly with Deans ultra plugs. Flight times are VERY long (about 30 minutes). I get tired before it does! Performance is far greater than with the stock motor, but to get this you do need the 7x5 prop. Outside loops etc are very easy with this motor fitted. I also use the Sportster wing except when doing aerial photography and aerobatic performance with the brushless motor is a completely different experience from what I remember of the stock motor.

Picture shows how it was done, although I have since changed from this 7x6 prop to a different style 7x5, and mounted the prop closer to the motor. To make sure the motor is solidly mounted I put a 6 mm balsa plate inside the fuselage and ran the three motor mounting screws right through it.

[bidlynd]

Hi Bigkid,

Nicely done, I will have to get my Winged Dragon II out of storage and do the brushless mod.

Can you please tell me what motor you are using, it looks like the cheap towerpro motor say the 2410-21.

Thanks Lyndon

[Fluffy Monster]

Great idea BigKid. I never thought of mounting a motor on the outside. I have just been looking for a motor that would fit inside the nacelle. In my naivety, I would have thought that someone would just produce a Speed480 equivalent but brushless. Life is never that simple.
I have read an article in that they claim the stock motor runs at 12,000rpm drawing about 11amps. My theory was that if I stick to the 9.6v pack, I would need a motor running at 1250K/V for the equivalent performance (7x4? prop). If I later change to 3 cell LiPoly I would then get a performance boost as it would go to 14,00rpm. A side effect would be a weight reduction, 50g less for the motor and 45g less for battery if I used a smaller capacity liPoly.
I was looking at the RC Smart 1200 Brushless as it is the same physical diameter and can mount through hole rather than on the bulkhead. This motor can draw 30A so I am guessing that this appears to be a lot more powerful than what is required and may be overkill?
Are there any good articles that explain the relationships between motor K/V to propeller size (torque?). I would be guessing that a 2200K/V motor turning a 7x4 prop will have an easier time (less current) than if it was turning a 8x4 prop.

For those wishing to comment on motor sizing but do not know the Wing Dragon, some facts with model configured in sports mode

Weight 715g (25.2oz)
Wing Area 358.75in2

Max prop diameter is 7"

I do hope this thread encourages other owners to dust off their old Dragons and give them an overhaul.

John

[CanDyRaVeR]

ive heard of someone putting a nice and cheap esskay w/ the jeti eco combo on it, dunno how she'll fly w/ it but i've hear nothing but awesome.

[Fluffy Monster]

Due to an accident, I have had to chase up a replacement tail for my Dragon. I have found several alternatives.

E-GO Models will import them on request.
Buy them from a US web site.
There is a forum member who has a spare (or two?)
Or build your own.

I have made two sorts. One from 3mm & 5mm Balsa sheet that ended up about 10g heavier than the original foam. The plane flies but really needs to be rebalanced. The second attempt I used trusses and covered with Econokote. This has produced an assembly only slightly heavier than the original. Plans can be found here. (http://www.pfleger.dyndns.tv/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=20606)

[thejustman]

Would it also be an option to install a brushless motor inside the nacelle? I love the idea of getting 30 mins flight time out of my Wing Dragon.

[Fluffy Monster]

There are a few inrunner brushless that should fit inside the narcelle. My research has shown that the inrunners are a higher Kv so will require a gearbox also. Just to further add to the cost, it will need to be a planetery type such as an AXI. Due to this, Everyone is recommending a outrunner on the outside as it is the cheapest option. As an example, a Mega Speed 480 + Gearbox will cost $198.00 while a cheap outrunner will cost $25.00. You will be paying a premium for aestitics. It also looks like I can fit a 2200mA 3S1P battery for the same weight as the existing 8 cell NiHi. Lots of power and long flight times. The sportster with the extra weight does need a bit more power than a standard dragon.
I am new to this so I may be speaking rubbish.

[nator_au]

Fluffy Monster,

Try some coreflute (real estate sign material) for a new tail.
It will be pretty much indestructable, and you can build the elevator surface in by just removing skin on one side only. It makes a great hinge!

Cheers.
Brett

[Fluffy Monster]

Brett,
Another Dragon user has tried the coreflute and said it worked fine but still ended up heavier (than the supplied tail). The truss tail with metalic red econokote looks great (well I think so) but it is far from indestructabile. The other way to fix the weight problem is more power. ExtremeRC is currently assembling a new power plant for it and hopefully it will get out on Saturday down at PP. I will post full details when it is re assembled and flown/crashed.
On a follow up from purchasing some, Dalcon Hobbies got back to me and they have stock. Quoted price of $15.00 each or a set for $25.00 plus $8.00 postage.

John

[tim_mellor]

If you guys want a brushless replacement for your planes try and find one of these Carbon shrouded Outrunners http://www.aircraft-world.com/prod_datasheets/ultraflymotors.htm We had been running them on our Strykers before changing to the HET's (which are heavier) At 2400kV they will do your job nicely and have the same bolt pattern as a Speed 400. No longer imported into Australia but you might find one O/S

Tim

[bidlynd]

I have one of those Ultrafly outrunners but it needs rewinding, I think I have the 2900KV may be a little hot for a 7x3 prop which is what the Dragon uses.

John try this on for size http://www.brchobbies.co.uk/?page=shop&action=additem&item=322
bargin for a $30.00 motor and I have a TP 15 amp ESC $20.00 I will test fit it in my Dragon and bring it to PP on Saturday.

This motor pulls my EPP bipe verticle with a 8x6 prop.

Lyndon

[tim_mellor]

I will do a winding count on my 2400kV if you like Lyndon we were running a 5.5x4.5 APC 20000 RPM at about 20A. Bribe OLMOD for a rewind then tear the wings off :D

Tim

[Fluffy Monster]

Just finished fitting the 2408/22 1700Kv motor pushing a 7x6 prop. Using a 3S1P 2200mA pack.
We will see tomorrow if it will have enough power to get off the ground :D .

[Fluffy Monster]

Finally got around to building a new tail assembly for the Dragon after the last one was destructed by the tree at PP. Would have covered it today but not enough Econcote left on the roll. Hopefully next week the hobby shops are open again.

[Fluffy Monster]

As it is a lazy Saturday and I can't finish the above construction, might as well finish of the story of the fitted brushless. It flies well! More than enough power for a rapid take off and I am getting 20+ minutes of flight with the big battery packs. I have also changed radio gear from the original supplied. First I used my old Futaba and that worked better. I then changed the servos for even better flight control. It now has a Spektrum DX6 in it with GWS NARO/STD servos for the Rudder and Elevator and the S75's for ailerons. Flaps are programmed in for extra slow landings.
Next job is to improve the battery mount and access hatch. Not game to try inverted flight in the condition it is in.

[cnote001]

I upgraded my Begin-Air ( Same as the Sportster) with a himag 390S (parkflyers.com) brushed motor and a 2 cell 7.4 lipo and it has been a blast. My buddy installed a Towerpro 2408-21T brushless combo from hobbycity.com with 3 cell 11.1 lipos and its even faster! I just got the combo myself. Cant wait to install! I forgot which prop he used but it was not the one in the combo.

Hope this helps!!

Onward and Upward!!!



HiMag 390S - http://www.parkflyers.com/html/himag.html

Towerpro combo - http://www.unitedhobbies.com/UNITEDHOBBIES/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=4853

[Fluffy Monster]

It has been many months since I have flown my Dragon. Parts have been used for other projects but the air frame is tucked away and may get life breathed back into again.
I think it is a fantastic air frame for starting park flying and wish you all the best.
As it can easily carry the weight of a 3S 2200, you can get some very long flight times and the brushless gives you ample power.

Fluffy

[pad69]

Sorry guys but i am a complete newbie, i love my sportster, but want longer flight time, can someone tell me what motor, esc, and battery they would recommend as i would like to order them from ebay?

thanks so much

[Fluffy Monster]

The motor I used was the BM2408-21 from Tower Pro. The pack was a 2200mAH 3S 12 C. The dragon can easily carry that weight. For a speed controller, anything over 20A should be fine. A quick check shows that HobbyCity (UnitedHobbies) is still selling that motor and I am sure you will find it on eBay etc. I buy mine from rcHobbyBoy in Melbourne as he is local. The change from a brushed inrunner to brushless outrunner is a little work but easily done in a night. Just make up a plate to reinforce the plastic bulkhead and bolt the motor through that. I think you will find some pictures in this thread. My Dragon motor was donated to the corsair so I can't take any pictures for you. You will also need a new propeller to suit the shaft, I used the GWS 07-60. Changing to LiPo packs will also require a new charger to suit the different battery technology. Just remember to check the CG after you have finished everything in case it moved.

[pad69]

U r a diamond!