Coordinates for HN507 [Archive]

View Full Version : Discussion Coordinates for HN507

POF

Oct 06, 2006, 05:15 AM

I would like to see coordinates for HN507 airfoil but has not been able to find it anywhere.

My friend is about to buy himself a new glider and we would like to compare the airfoils.

Anybody knows where to find it?

Thanks in advance.

Peter

oakman7004

Oct 06, 2006, 09:27 AM

I'm also interested...

He's buying a Shadow, or? http://www.mibomodeli.com/show.asp?ID=105

Cheers Jonas

nuevo

Oct 06, 2006, 11:06 AM

How about inquire here? http://www.habebert.com/index.php

Using a web translator, his website says "Everyone may use these profiles for the not commercial use, freely. " From that I assume he is open to personal inquiry, but requires some agreement for commercial use.

nuevo

Oct 06, 2006, 11:11 AM

I would like to add. I suspect he would be willing to send you polar charts, if that's all you require.

POF

Oct 06, 2006, 12:32 PM

I'm also interested...

He's buying a Shadow, or? http://www.mibomodeli.com/show.asp?ID=105

Cheers Jonas

Exactly :O)

But Mibo got two models in interests. Shadow and Vision+. Vision+ is smaller but should be coming in a 3,5m version later this year. Both Shadow and Vision should be available with two different profiles: HN507 and HQW2,5/8 to 2,5/9 and 3,0/10 in the tips. This is information from F3J WM in Martin.

Personally I would select the big Vision+ because of the lack of arrowshape.

How about inquire here? http://www.habebert.com/index.php

Using a web translator, his website says "Everyone may use these profiles for the not commercial use, freely. " From that I assume he is open to personal inquiry, but requires some agreement for commercial use.

Thanks - I will try to contact him.

POF

Oct 06, 2006, 02:52 PM

Got the data from mr. Norbert :)

loic_debisschop

Oct 06, 2006, 03:27 PM

oakman7004

Oct 06, 2006, 04:04 PM

not trying to hijack the thread..but this one also looks interesting!
http://www.f3j.cz/images/aspire/aspx.gif

Using Andreas Herrig for designing airfoils and gliders seems to be a good choice nowadays...

I wouldn't think twice if I needed a big glider next to my Supra.

Cheers Jonas

ps. why don't my wife give me unlimited amount of cash for my hobby. What am I doing wrong??

POF

Oct 06, 2006, 04:06 PM

Hello,

Is it possible to send us this data or do we have to ask it to Mr Habe ? Shadow IS a must have glider. See the results in Eurotour: Already good despite it is a new glider ! Just like Perfect but the Perfect is more expensive.
Please, if you can't give the coordinates, tell us your analysis of the airfoil. I will tell you if it matches what i have seen (I saw the shadow flight)

Loïc
PS: I may also tell you things i noticed on this glider, not depending on the airfoil, but are also important !

I'm not really sure about mr Norberts policy on this, but he did send me the data really fast, so I recommend that you ask him.

I think that both the price and the weight are interesting aspects of the two gliders. Any comments on the gliders are welcome.

POF

Oct 06, 2006, 04:16 PM

ps. why don't my wife give me unlimited amount of cash for my hobby. What am I doing wrong??

Send her shopping more often. Then the only complaints comes from the bank :)

loic_debisschop

Oct 07, 2006, 04:46 AM

What i know about the Shadow: the one i saw is only 1900 g. With that weight it is a great floater of course. The aifoil seems to have low drag but the maximum lift is also reduced compared to other airfoils. My gess is that the camber is about 2% and the relative thikness 8%, do you confirm this ?
This is perfect for the wing loading anyway. Other comments are: the wing bends a lot on winch (but the version i saw is very light). I don't think it would resist in winds higher than 25 km/h. The pilot told me that the roll response is good despite the wingspan. Better than the Perfect due to lower inertia.
Vision: all the gliders i saw were too heavy. I don't know if the 3m55 version will be better...

Loïc

POF

Oct 07, 2006, 08:46 AM

loic_debisschop

Oct 07, 2006, 10:53 AM

Ballasting ? I'm not sure about that: since you can't fly it in windy conditions, because of the wing bending on winch, you don't realy need ballast, do you ?
The Xperience pro is more adapted for windy conditions. I don't no if Mibo have stiffer and heavier Shadows that would withstand ballast. I think the shadow launches high. Not sure about that because it is bigger that other F3J and it can look lower. One should take a logger to see that.
Supra is known for launching high. But i know the americans did a lot of work to improve launch height, and most of supra's at the WC were american.
What do you know about the 3m50 Vision ? Is it completly new glider ? or just a new wing ? (or wing tips ?)
Loïc

psoff3x

Oct 07, 2006, 05:14 PM

Mr Norbert seems to have changed his policy in making profile data freely available by direct download because of past abuses, according to his website. It also says that you now need to contact him and request the profile you're interested in using. Like POF, I too requested a profile and Mr Norbert responded very quickly. Use of the profile is subject to a licence agreement and I think that the data can be used freely for personal, non commercial use, so it wouldn't be appropriate to post any files here. All of this is explained on the website in German, I used Google to help understand it.
http://www.habebert.com/

Mibo's website says the Shadow has a ballast tube but, like Loic says would you want to use the model in wind conditions needing it? I have a cross-tail version of the Shadow and the model is OK in winds upto 12-15mph, you get used to the wing flex. But using the model in higher winds might be a problem if you want to use a competitive launch.

My flying partner has a carbon Aspire that's heavier than the Shadow but seems to perform similarly to the Shadow in light winds. It's wings do not bend.

A good solution might be a sub-2kg Pike Perfect!

Pete Softley

Richard S

Oct 07, 2006, 08:17 PM

The shadow works best in relatively low wind conditions, where scratching every last second counts. (i.e. where it is difficult to make the max time in f3j).

In conditions where lift is more abundent and fast launches are priority then the "sister" model 'xperience-pro' is better suited. These models are very popular on the UK F3J circuit.

I've not seen a Pike Perfect, but I know the waiting list is now delivering in March/April (I'm on it!! :) )

psoff3x

Oct 08, 2006, 06:15 AM

The HN507-based Shadow definately performs better than the Xperience Pro in weak conditions and is comparable in moderate conditions. But I've bottled out of using it in stronger winds because of its wing flex.

When my Perfect arrives in a couple of weeks time we'll be comparing first-hand the Shadow, Xperience Pro, Aspire, Perfect and possibly a Supra in hopefully a variety of conditions.

Pete Softley

Richard S

Oct 08, 2006, 06:47 PM

Hi Pete,

I'm very interested in seeing the aspire, perfect and supra.... Are you planning on doing any comps south of Northumberland over the coming months?

PM me on the flyquiet website if you can offer any advice about sourcing a Perfect before the current 6 month delivery time :)

Also what layup option did you go for on the perfect?

Gldrpilot

Oct 17, 2006, 11:35 AM

Hi Pete,

Yes, please share your info about the Shadow and Perfect! I am trying to decide between these two. What layup does your Shadow have? Is it a full carbon d-box for the center and tips?? Does it penetrate/cruise well? What is the weight of you Shadow?

I'm just searching for as much info on the Shadow as possible so I can make a comparision with the Perfect.

Thanks for you help.

Chris Keller

psoff3x

Nov 06, 2006, 12:37 PM

Sorry Chris and Richard, didn't check back in this thread until now.

Chris:
My Shadow wing is the manufacturer's standard layup, i.e. carbon d-box centre-panel and glass tips. It differs from others in that it is using a prototype cross-tail fuz and prototype tailplane. As a result the tail-end on the prototype is slightly too heavy and production versions should be lighter. It's flying weight is just over 2200g. I think this can be brought down to around 2150g or so. I think production v-tail versions have a flying weight of 2050g or so, maybe less? As far as I know the particular supplier I used, Mibo Modeli in Slovenia, hasn't yet finalised the cross-tail fuselage.

For servos I used:
Ailerons - Futaba S3150
Flaps - JR DS362 (UK spec) = DS368BB (US Horizon) = DS3068 (Graupner)
Rudder - JR DS361 (UK) = DS368 (US & Graupner)
Elevator - JR DS3401 (UK) = DS3421 (US)

Battery is a 4 x AA 2500mAh something or other.

CofG is a quite rearward 110mm, it recovers slowly from a dive.

Flying is very interesting, but rewarding. The model benefits from altering flap (camber) settings to suit conditions as well as tasks (thermalling, distance/speed/or penetration) which is what the aerofoil designer intended, I think. Because of the model's apparent strength many people consider the Shadow to be best suited to very light or no wind conditions, and it does perform very well here. But, equally, I have used the model without problems in winds around the 15mph or so level, unballasted! But I'm reluctant to 'push' the model during launch in higher winds because wingflex is noticable. So that means it might be on the line a fraction longer, or the speed at zoom time might be a little less than 'stronger' models. I suspect it's a pyschological thing on my part because of the flex, and, in any case, I'm just too financially challenged to check that theory out. The Shadow is one of my best controllable models during landing with crow providing you get the elevator compensation curve right.

On another forum one of the posters has a clubmate with a Shadow who was concerned about the capability of the model in windy conditions and asked the designer for advice. That advice was that the model has been two-man towed in F3J competition with wind speeds of 20kph+ (say 13mph+) without any problem.

I'm very pleased with the model and glad I got it. But for windier conditions I do use another model.

Richard:
As they say over here 'watch pot never boils' and so the same is true with the Perfect - I'm still waiting (since end of April!). One of the guys in our club is getting a Supra soon so we'll be blessed with a variety for comparison - couple of Xperience Pros, Shadow, Perfect, Supra, Aspire, Victor (soon), and Giant. The Superiors have all found other homes / graveyards now.

The layup I went for is the full carbon 68 centre and tips, but I understand that Samba has been working on versions that are lighter without compromising strength. Watch this space I guess!

It was my intention to source a model that could be used for all legal F3J wind conditions and having seen the Perfect perform I'd like to think that it fits the bill. But since the Shadow was available it seemed like a good choice for the no wind conditions - just in case. In reality - see above.

I didn't do any of our F3J league comps this year for family reasons and the Peterborough comps are overnight stops but I may do a couple - to try the new Perfect out. Brian J may also turn up so we'll have Perfect, Giant, Aspire, Xperience Pro, Shadow, and maybe a Victor with us. We did some Eurotours last season and will do more this year, not sure about our domestic Southern F3J league though.

HTH

Sorry if this is all off topic.

Pete Softley

Gldrpilot

Nov 06, 2006, 08:18 PM

Thanks Pete,

Yeah, I don't know if I want to wait that long for a new ship (the Pike Perfect). That's why I'm looking at the Shadow and besides, I like being a little different. The Shadow seems like a very impressive ship. Mike Lee, a U.S. pilot who came very close to making our '06 F3J team is now flying a Shadow and he absolutely loves it!

Please keep us informed on your observtions concerning the Perfect, Xperience Pro and Shadow.

Thanks again!

Chris Keller

tomcat5109

Nov 07, 2006, 04:22 PM

PSOFF3X,

You said,

"As they say over here 'watch pot never boils' and so the same is true with the Perfect - I'm still waiting (since end of April!). One of the guys in our club is getting a Supra soon so we'll be blessed with a variety for comparison - couple of Xperience Pros, Shadow, Perfect, Supra, Aspire, Victor (soon), and Giant. The Superiors have all found other homes / graveyards now."

I'm always on the lookout for the next plane and am curious about your comment on the Superiors. Why are the Superiors finding other homes? It seems the Superior would be in the same category as some of these planes. Just curious.

Tommy

psoff3x

Nov 09, 2006, 03:20 PM

Tommy

My flying partner and I had a Superior each. The first 6" from the nose backwards of mine will forever be part of Turkey after losing control of the model that was in gaggle of 6 or more Superiors - that's the graveyard reference. It's been replaced by a Giant because the Perfect wasn't available in time and I knew a Shadow was on it's way. The other was sold to fund the purchase of another model.

No other reason.

tomcat5109

Nov 09, 2006, 04:14 PM

Oh......that kind of graveyard! I completely understand your reference now.

I have a new Superior that is not built out yet and before I put servos in it I'm gathering opinions on why a lot of flyers are ready to move from a Superior to a Perfect or Shadow so quickly. It seems that 1) light air performance, 2) larger size, and 3) one plane for all conditions are the main reasons. I guess time will tell the tale next year.

At the Dallas TNT contest this year, a Perfect won the overall championship. The plane looked flawless in thermaling, maneuvering and expecially landing but again, the man at the sticks was top notch too, Jim McCarthy.

This is a good thread.

Tommy