Ck's justgofly's TL50's changeup

[klique]

Hey guy's this thread is for anyone interested in the Tl 50 Built lite W powerfull eficient lite drive train.

The Drivetrain is a justgofly 450 ft.
A cc 35 esc
The motor will run on either a 3s 3700 poly rc and a 7/3 apc ,or a 7/5 apc on 9 1950 faup or gp 2000's.
I am using a custom motor mount given to me by tasajara here on rc groups.
My goal is to have a fity that will be solid ,fast and able to be a
loopy inyourface type of wing with ultimate handiling.
Here are a few pix for you guys.
There is a few new build mods here so hereyago.
Enjoy.
Tell me whatya think.
Ck

[memyselfandI]

Looks good CK. Hey, the old school battery is just a guide, right? How light do you think you can get'er?

_carl

[chuckand]

Man... you're tough to keep up with!! Always a new angle!!

Thanks for sharing ideas... again!

Chuck (in Aaaala Baaama)

Hey guy's this thread is for anyone interested in the Tl 50 Built lite W powerfull eficient lite drive train.

The Drivetrain is a justgofly 450 ft.
A cc 35 esc
The motor will run on either a 3s 3700 poly rc and a 7/3 apc ,or a 7/5 apc on 9 1950 faup or gp 2000's.
I am using a custom motor mount given to me by tasajara here on rc groups.
My goal is to have a fity that will be solid ,fast and able to be a
loopy inyourface type of wing with ultimate handiling.
Here are a few pix for you guys.
There is a few new build mods here so hereyago.
Enjoy.
Tell me whatya think.
Ck

[PlusRC]

I like the contour around the motor mount............wish I would have done that I the fitty I just built. Oh well, next one.

Great ideas !

[fly_boy99]

I have to start fabbing a mount like that for a newly arrived
36" wing.

I wonder where I got it from....

:rolleyes:
B

[PaulVi]

Hey me too... The great ideas are always stolen hahahaha

I will be running the komodo double on it.. Now that im finnished with the Wasp build i can get backl to the EPP


Hey CK get this on film so we can do the alternate build video to go along with the kits..

I am going to document the 36 build and am shooting for a light build.

I found some fabric like the henry's that is on a 100 foot rool 38 inches wide it is a bit lighter that the henrys i will post a few picks to show what i mean

Keep up the great work

[klique]

Let see how the build goes ,I might modify a few things slightly and.If it all goes well I will build another and vid tape it for a new type of build.
Get me the info on the fiber glass if you will. :)
ckHey me too... The great ideas are always stolen hahahaha

I will be running the komodo double on it.. Now that im finnished with the Wasp build i can get backl to the EPP


Hey CK get this on film so we can do the alternate build video to go along with the kits..

I am going to document the 36 build and am shooting for a light build.

I found some fabric like the henry's that is on a 100 foot rool 38 inches wide it is a bit lighter that the henrys i will post a few picks to show what i mean

Keep up the great work

[klique]

Here is a few more pix of the progression. :)
Ck

[IBWingnutz]

Looks sharp! soldering iron tools worked great for my build thanks!

[fly_boy99]

Hey Paul-

Throw some of the "like" henry's fabric over the hill will ya? Since we will have similar motors we should get together and race the 36" eh?

Should be fun!
B

Hey me too... The great ideas are always stolen hahahaha

I will be running the komodo double on it.. Now that im finnished with the Wasp build i can get backl to the EPP


Hey CK get this on film so we can do the alternate build video to go along with the kits..

I am going to document the 36 build and am shooting for a light build.

I found some fabric like the henry's that is on a 100 foot rool 38 inches wide it is a bit lighter that the henrys i will post a few picks to show what i mean

Keep up the great work

[PaulVi]

Ya i have been thinking that for a while.. we get em done we will hook up to fly I belive you have the better flying sites in the south bay right..

[PaulVi]

Here are the specks on the fabric

The big diffrence is that the henry's is a much mor uniform weave and the no name brand stuff i found is irregular but it is also flater and feels a bit more flexable maybe not as much binding material in the no name..

[fly_boy99]

Nevermind Paul I found the Henry's today and some 90. Woohoo
I'm ready to go. Watching the Klique vid and drinking beer was almost
as good as going to a movie!!! Music wasn't bad at all either.

Let me know what motor mount you are going to come up with for
the 36".

B

[PaulVi]

Nevermind Paul I found the Henry's today and some 90. Woohoo
I'm ready to go. Watching the Klique vid and drinking beer was almost
as good as going to a movie!!! Music wasn't bad at all either.

Let me know what motor mount you are going to come up with for
the 36".

B

Im going hunting tomo for mount material. if i do not find t-bar in the shower stall area i may hit alco up next week and see what they have..

I used the case from an old serve on the 30 and it was way to heavy and to hard to bend right. but in a pinch i can use that too.. I just like how the T keeps you on the wing center line like all good rite wings..

[klique]

Hey paul wher is the glass material avail at ?
CkIm going hunting tomo for mount material. if i do not find t-bar in the shower stall area i may hit alco up next week and see what they have..

I used the case from an old serve on the 30 and it was way to heavy and to hard to bend right. but in a pinch i can use that too.. I just like how the T keeps you on the wing center line like all good rite wings..

[PaulVi]

Hey paul wher is the glass material avail at ?
Ck

I will get that info this week i was handed it from a buddy doing home repairs so i assume a home center some where. it looks like henrys but large scale repairs type.

[fly_boy99]

Found Henry's at Home Depot no problem.

Now tig'ing a alum motor mount will be a pain. There should be something
to mod and make this build go faster.

B

[PaulVi]

Found Henry's at Home Depot no problem.

Now tig'ing a alum motor mount will be a pain. There should be something
to mod and make this build go faster.

B

CK the guy i got it from can not seem to remember guess he has ahd it for a while. my next door nabour does roofing repair i will ask him im sure he will know where it is from.

I never maid it to the store this weekend but will be out tonight have to get spider poison too looks like we are being taken over in the backyard by black widow spiders.. like 1/2 inch across the bodies.. I may have to use a flame thrower

[PaulVi]

i wound up using 1/16" bar stock cut two 3 inch pieces, Split both pieces up the middle leaving 5/8th of an inch at the end of both piece then bent that last 5/8th of an inch 90 degrees to the half width part. I made mirro image piece so that when you put them together one 5/8th side goes up one goes down and the longer halve sided parts run side by side to make a T bar...

Gezz im going to have to post a picture..

[TaSaJaRa]

CK, wing is looking good. Like the motor mount :D . The only thing I did different on my mount was leave it large enough to mount an axi style mount to it. Then if I missed the thrust angle (sense I have not built as many as you) I could just add a washer under the axi mount before I attached the motor with axi mount to the motor mount on the plane. That way if I needing any up or down thrust I didn't have to bend my mount. That came in very helpful on my TwinJet beacuse the mount isn't burried in the wing as like my TL.

I have been running one of the JustGoFly 500 motors and it seems to work very well. I think Vinnie @ JustGoFly has a few comming out soon. On my TL I used a 450TH and got over 80mph But my wing was 3+lbs and doing 3s on a 5.5x2.5apc. So I am sure 4s would have made a big difference along with being lighter.

Here are a few pics of how I did my mount. It is pics of it used on my twin jet. I also cut my motor shaft down to 10mm so the collet fits up close and snug to the bell.

[fly_boy99]

You glue both pieces together to make the mount?

B


i wound up using 1/16" bar stock cut two 3 inch pieces, Split both pieces up the middle leaving 5/8th of an inch at the end of both piece then bent that last 5/8th of an inch 90 degrees to the half width part. I made mirro image piece so that when you put them together one 5/8th side goes up one goes down and the longer halve sided parts run side by side to make a T bar...

Gezz im going to have to post a picture..

[PaulVi]

You glue both pieces together to make the mount?

B

I will post a pic later today but i actually soldered the aluminum.. i have the solder and flux from pack building used a mini tource to heat it up amd a 300 wat iron to flow it around it is ugly but that part will be burried..

I assume i could have epoxed it too...

I will start the build thread tonight as im getting ready to join the halves together and get ready to rock and roll....

normally when do you fly.. weekends only..

And when do you want to get together and bs and fly....

[fly_boy99]

Most of my flying happens on weekends but then there is the exception like
yesterday. I flew about 7 different planes and got a bit tired of it.

We should plan something soon before the rains come!!!

Start a different build thread and I'll post my experience at the same time!!!

B


I will post a pic later today but i actually soldered the aluminum.. i have the solder and flux from pack building used a mini tource to heat it up amd a 300 wat iron to flow it around it is ugly but that part will be burried..

I assume i could have epoxed it too...

I will start the build thread tonight as im getting ready to join the halves together and get ready to rock and roll....

normally when do you fly.. weekends only..

And when do you want to get together and bs and fly....

[PaulVi]

Works for me.. Cool...

[klique]

I have ben flyin here for a few weeks ,and have to say this thing is awesome.
here is the finishe pix.
Charger has seen it fly ,and asmokindeal has flown it.I have a biased opinion on how it fly so maybe they can chime in with the flight characteristics.
heres the pix.

[Charger]

Yeah.......That plane's the real deal!! I don't think I had a flight in the day I saw it.......You launched the Changeup, took a couple of laps, and said...Here, you want to fly it? It was trimmed for rapid response and I didn't want to crash your new bird, so I threw the box back at you after I did a couple goofy moves, but I keep thinking about it and want to fly it cuz it's a plane anyone would want in their fleet. When I fly my 4s TL 50, I need to stand up and anticipate how I want to fly and really get an adrenelin rush with it. The Changeup looks to have some speedy potential, but the light weight makes it more forgiving to quick last second changes in flight plans and you could work some light air. I picture it would be a perfect plane where there's a little ridge lift or thermal action. Kind of The Hotliner of F'ingWings :cool:

[TaSaJaRa]

CK like the way the wing turned out.... With that motor and lighter wing you will get much longer flights. But it still has good enough speed to thrill from time to time..... I have been flying a NEW 500 size JustGoFly motor on my TL50. It is a bit faster and can handle a little more watts. The 500th will be out soon I do believe. I am getting around 100mph on my 3lb wing running 3s. With your lighter plane you should be able to do much faster. Plus mine has a few battle wrinkles where it attacked the ground a few times. :rolleyes:
I think the New 500's will be no more than 2grams heavier than the 450ft.

Later Craig

[Lee R. Wheeler]

Get a WingWarrior E-Raider!

[asmokindeal]

Get a WingWarrior E-Raider!

Dude, where have you been for the last 12 months?

I think CK has some old Raider cores laying around if they're all backordered.

Make sure to ask him about those new Nickel Metal batteries.

;)

[Lee R. Wheeler]

How did that get is there, I know Klique personally and I wouldn't go across any of post in his threads. But he knows that. Thats why he didn't say nothing and you did. But thanks any way. My bad and it should not happen again. I've been doing too many things. Late!

[klique]

Lee it is all good bro he is just bustn u nutz a little :)
ck

[Pezzer]

Great lookn' and wing idea Ck! I like that one for sure. Wish I could fly here but all of the soccer fields I have seen are too small for the TL40. I may even have to join the local club to fly here, yuck! Betting I will get funny looks from the slimers and old timer flyer's but oh well, I'll be the fastest. ;) Will call you soon bro...

Good times!

-Dave :D

[klique]

Yo slacker.
Ck

[john wing]

chris what do you think about thi fiberglass mesh http://jimshare.com/ or maybe this http://jxdahua.en.alibaba.com/group/50192485/Fiberglass_Mesh.html

[klique]

It looks great john.
ck

[john wing]

do you think it is about the same strenght and weight as the henrys or better.

[PaulVi]

Yello Jacket Guess what? Its made by henrys..

http://www.whitecapdirect.com/store/worker?request=GetProduct&productID=113YJ&destination=%2Fstore%2Fproduct-v2.0.jsp

This is the same as the smaller rolls the stuff your listing is 4.3 oz glass cloth while it could work it may be too heavy and too fine a weave for the super 90 to work well

This stuff or the normal henrys is more like fiberglass screen door screen

[klique]

For anyone who wants to build a tl 50 with super lite drivetrain hereis a bump for you.
I ben thnkn of doing another one for myself.
ck

[JustGoFly]

CK,

I'm going to have to send you a 500TH / 500T. You haven't seen this beast. It can handle alot more than the 450FT. The 500T will run a 7x6 prop fast an with high thrust on pylon type racers and 500TH on lighter faster Jets/Wings on a sub 5 inch prop. The difference between the two is a bell change, so you can convert the motor without paying the expense of two full motors.

3S performance is great for higher thrust on a larger prop and I enjoy the 500T in 7x6 props in wings. But it won't exceed 100 mph level flight in the Demon size wing. You will be able to stick the nose up and climb though at a hefty 70 mph.

Also - We're developing a 550 just for your wings for 4S & 5S. I've been running a prototype on 5S for about three months and started with a 6x4 prop then moved upto a 6x5.5 for extreme performance. I need to raise my level of comfort flying at these speeds.

We are increasing the RPM by enabling higher voltage and drop the prop to 6 inch size.

We also carry the T Mounts - made by a local fellow who is very talented and just needs someone to realize it. We're adding screw holes so an X Mount can be easily attached and removed from the T Bracket - as per a great recommendation from TaSaJaRa. Getting to the screws is difficult without the X Mount attached, but easy with the X Mount attached. These mounts will not easily bend or deform.
http://justgofly.com/images/accessories/JustGoFly-T-Bracket-100_142.jpg
You can find us at : http://www.JustGoFly.com

Vinnie

[klique]

Cool vin,I am goin to buildn my winter fleet here soon and would love to giv'm a try.
A few on a tl 60 spinin 7/5 contra rotating would be sweet also.
ck

[jstoll]

hey there CK
so what is it that you are doing with the cloth?
are you using super90 to glue it to the wing then spackling & covering? or are you using an epoxy resin or some type of flexible glue over the glass? incase I need to repair navyguys old plane......
thanks & take care
JAK

[klique]

You can get the build dvd from me if you need.
ckhey there CK
so what is it that you are doing with the cloth?
are you using super90 to glue it to the wing then spackling & covering? or are you using an epoxy resin or some type of flexible glue over the glass? incase I need to repair navyguys old plane......
thanks & take care
JAK

[jstoll]

its not on the website
PM me a price if you would be so kind
thanks
JAK

[JustGoFly]

JStoll - the build is alot more detail than just the cloth. I had NO IDEA until I saw the DVD. I don't know if one of these wings has ever hit anything mid air - but I suspect it would fly right through another plane/wing and keep on going unhindered. Maybe I'll be the first to post that video ;)

CK - have you ever looked into using Kevlar on the nose and the FiberGlass you use now on the rest of the plane ? Kevlar is stronger than GiberGlass and heavier, but weight on the nose is not an issue. My Demon is a monster so Kevlar might be overkill, but I was curious if you've tried it ?

Vinnie

[PaulVi]

Hey Vinnie did you ever run the numbers for a 4s 400 to 450 watt motor in the 19 to 26,000 rpm range for the 36 incher..

[JustGoFly]

Running those numbers is just downright scarey. I can do it this weekend though. The 4.2x4 prop seems to run well on 4S on the 500TH. Here is a video of the speed in a small wing - that is likely less efficient design than a RiteWing: (Note that catching these wings on video is not easy - so sound helps)
Wing Video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBuTycESB0c)

Working backwards from the numbers:
127mph on a 4 pitch prop would be 100% efficient at 33500 RPM So I suspect this is likely over 42,000 RPM. But that is a guess - so I should measure it.

If you like thrust over speed (as I do) - then the 500T would provide lower RPM and enable a range of seven inch props for high thrust on 3S, and 6 inch on 4S.

I'm flying my demon at a park the other day. I run a 5S 6x6.5 prop on a prototype motor and needless to say it is a bullet. I hit the throttle for a fast flyby and as it makes it's way off over the trees a second later I hear one of the school custodians who is watching "My God!". I felt like yelling - "Ya - mine too!".

Vinnie

[livinma1]

Awesome Vinnie. I need to get me one of Kliques wings.

[TaSaJaRa]

Cool vin,I am goin to buildn my winter fleet here soon and would love to giv'm a try.
A few on a tl 60 spinin 7/5 contra rotating would be sweet also.
ck
I have been playing with the 500T a little on my TL50... It being pretty heavy from all the repairs it still had good speed.
I ran a 6x4 sport on a 500T 4s and was only pulling about 28amps or so at aaarrgghhhh!!! I can't remember but I think it was around 435watts + or - watts...
I was going to try 5s on the 500T but I did want to use a little lighter wing than my TL50'
I Have a 46' Demon Twin that I am just starting that will have a pair of 500's on it.
Just not sure which way I want to go. 500th 3380kv or 500t 1950kv

That is the good thing about JustGoFly motors. You are not stuck with only one kv when you buy the motor.
With a $15 bell upgrade you can change the kv of your motor in minutes.
Example: Say you like speed on a lighter wing or plane
you can go with the 500th 3380kv (http://www.justgofly.com/tech500TH.htm) 3s using around a 5" prop 4s around 4.5" prop.
Then later you want to have more thrust for an easier launch or better vertical.
Just buy the 500T Bell (http://justgofly.com/Order%20Form.htm#500T_Pusher_Bell) for $15 and you now have a 1950kv motor able to turn a 7x5 on 3s and a 6x4 on 4s...
Your actual prop size can vary depending on plane weight and what battery size/weight you have.

But there you have it... 2 motors in one for just $15 more.

I think the 500TH or 500T (http://justgofly.com/Order%20Form.htm#500_Motors) would be a good choice for the 36 Demon Sportster (http://ritewingrc.com/36demonsportster.php) using 3s or 4s...

[TaSaJaRa]

We also carry the T Mounts - made by a local fellow who is very talented and just needs someone to realize it. We're adding screw holes so an X Mount can be easily attached and removed from the T Bracket - as per a great recommendation from TaSaJaRa. Getting to the screws is difficult without the X Mount attached, but easy with the X Mount attached. These mounts will not easily bend or deform.
You can find us at : http://www.JustGoFly.com
Vinnie

This mount is Rock Solid....
http://static.rcgroups.com/forums/attachments/3/2/2/3/9/t1338538-245-thumb-JustGoFly-Mount-100_1568.jpg
BTW that sure is a nice looking RiteWing Demon you have there Vinnie... :D

The only thing I did before mounting the motor mount in place was to give the mount a few deg's
of up thrust before gooping it in place. I placed the mount it in a vise then taped the mount plate
real light with a strip of wood to correct it for an equal up and down thrust angle.
The reason I had to do this was when I put the mount in the slot I cut over the center spar
it would lift the front of the plate up just a bit. So a few deg's added corrected for the spar holding the front edge up.
Once I did this it was dead on the center thrust angle.

[gotboostedvr6]

i plan on building a lightweight demon 40 and a lightweight tl50 using a 60 gram outrunner and 2 1750 3s lipos in parallel... im glad i found this thread!!

[Charger]

I think the 50 Chris built here is like 30 oz all up weight. I have one that's about 31 oz. It is a real care free set up that's easy to launch and land. My motor's about 40 grams. I think your build with those batts, will come in in the low 40 oz's and that is fun. My next TL, I want to balance with a 3s 3700 mah pack......40-45 0z range.

[gotboostedvr6]

What do you guys think about the 500T Pusher Motor @1950 kv using a 6000 3s and a 8x4? amps will be in the 60 ish range.

i want to use this on a TL60

[Atom1025]

I think that motor would e hurting with an 8x4. Craig should chime in with his thoughts as he has used this motor before.

I have not personally tried it yet but according to the calcs the 7x7 draws a couple amps more then the 8x4. The 7x7 has a much higher pitch speed but good thrust.

I was looking at the scorpion 3008-32, on 6s the numbers look really good with low amps. 8x4= Roughly 30amps, 73mph Pitch speed, 74 oz of thrust. 7x7= 31amps, 127 pitch speed, 82oz of thrust. Both predict at least 6min full throttle flights.

Keep in mind the results in the real world may vary

[gotboostedvr6]

Adam,

Think that would be a good motor for your lipos in series? 30 amps is right where you said the sweet spot is and a 7 x 5 prop shows good speed/ thrust.

[Atom1025]

I dont see why not? Curious why you'd prefer an outrunner on this? I'd say anything that gets ya 60oz of thrust or more will be good. Just keep the speed under 120 or so and theres no worries.

I am sure there is a JGF motor that would serve your purpose but I dont know which one.

Tasajara should know more about these or you can contact Vinnie, hes a really nice guy.

Adam

[JustGoFly]

Hey Guys - Adam, thanks for the kind words.

The 500T is an 80-95 mph motor, but I'm sure much faster on a CK Wing. Chris's wings are very sleak. I like the faster thrust of the T's 500T, 550T, since you get more thrust and easier launching. The 550T will definately kick up the speed on a 6.5x5.5 pylon prop. We've modified all the 500's and 550's to have higher temp wire. This enables it to be pushed harder without burning out.
Some 500T Videos (http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=JustGoFly+500T).

I have not tested the 8x4 on 500T. But the 7x5 has crazy thrust and decent speed. Why would you want more thrust and lower speed ? I normally recommend 6.5x6.5 for more speed and slightly lower thrust. If you'd like 500T - 8x4 numbers, I can measure and post them.

I've got a 550TH (Higher Speed, lower thrust) loaded up on a plane for testing - but weather is all snow and cold in North East.

I've not posted much information on the 550 (http://justgofly.com/Order%20Form.htm#550_Motors) yet. But it is a more powerful motor than the 500's, although a little heavier. The 550TH is NOT as high a Kv as the 500TH, which means you can run a slightly larger prop, and the 550's work well on 4S.

Guys - I'd like to offer anyone referencing this thread a 550 for the price of a 500. Your feedback would be appreciated. This offer is good until the end of 2008 and requires you to email me (Vinnie@JustGoFly.com) to take advantage of this deal.

The T mounts (http://justgofly.com/Order%20Form.htm#T_Mount), that work well on the RiteWing planes, are back in stock. It won't break like many other mounts !

Our 30C LiPos (http://justgofly.com/Order%20Form.htm#Batteries) totally rock and will again kick up your performance, due to them not dropping voltage as a 20C could.

Vinnie

[Atom1025]

Vinnie this motor is not for the typical ritewing. Its a 60" wingspan that weighs 60oz So it needs every bit of thrust it can get.

The batts are 3600 3s 12c. Not high performance by any means, they can be run in parallel for 72003s2p or in series. The batts are good for 30-40 amps a piece so that needs to be kept in mind. I dont like to push them past 30 amps.

[Atom1025]

Oh and thats a great offer! Basically $10 off a 550 motor! Cant beat that!

[JustGoFly]

Wow almost 4 lbs. The 500T would get it off the ground but likely would not provide the performance you're looking for on a RiteWing, unless you're in a dive. We have an even larger motor (4 oz) coming out that would rock that Wing on 6S, but 3S would be more of a parkflyer type setup.

In the short term the 7.4 oz Suppo 3520 (http://www.justgofly.com/Order%20Form.htm#Suppo_Motors) on 6S 8x6 would pull under 31 amps would hit around 15,000 RPM which is only about 85 mph, but is on the very low end of that motors capability but would certainly give you the verticle you're looking for.

I can run thrust numbers on the 8x4 500T or ask Dr. Kiwi to run them, if you'd like to hear how that pans out ?

Holy crap 60 oz's wing - you guys carrying small children into outter space ? ;)

Vinnie

[PaulVi]

ya were at about an OZ an inch we thing we found that it holds tru down to the 36 inchers.. the tl50's are around 48 and the 40 demons are about 42 so 60 for a 60 is about rite..

And they fly like lite wings at that and slow down enough for small field landings