best brand of 27 turn electric motors?

[ian]

from what i can tell all motors are not equal. I've been told that good 27
turn motors can outperform cheaper 19 turn. There's a guy at the club with
a brushless version and his lap times are better than the best 19 turn
modified. I don't think i'll go that far yet. Though one shopkeeper told
me that the brushless models do have a bit of lag at the bottom end. I have
a standard fit 17turn reedy motor with my TC4. apparently it isn't
rebuildable so once i wear down the brushes that's it.

Beginners like myself are put in the 27 turn series. There is beginner and
advanced heats. I am of course a beginner. Along with the 12 year old kids
and their £109 standard shcumachers. As i am being resoundly thrashed -16
laps in the time limit as opposed to 20+ for the rest and 25+ for the
regular winner I am allowed to continue with my 17 turn motor for now.

[kenji]

In article <YFSSg.54981$wg.23914@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>,
"ian" <where@remyposts.com> wrote:

> from what i can tell all motors are not equal. I've been told that good 27
> turn motors can outperform cheaper 19 turn. There's a guy at the club with
> a brushless version and his lap times are better than the best 19 turn
> modified. I don't think i'll go that far yet. Though one shopkeeper told
> me that the brushless models do have a bit of lag at the bottom end. I have
> a standard fit 17turn reedy motor with my TC4. apparently it isn't
> rebuildable so once i wear down the brushes that's it.
>
> Beginners like myself are put in the 27 turn series. There is beginner and
> advanced heats. I am of course a beginner. Along with the 12 year old kids
> and their £109 standard shcumachers. As i am being resoundly thrashed -16
> laps in the time limit as opposed to 20+ for the rest and 25+ for the
> regular winner I am allowed to continue with my 17 turn motor for now.

Is your goal is to be able to get to 20 laps like the others?

Are you crashing at all during races? If so how many times in a 5 minute
race?

How is your TC4 handling? Is it hooked up real well or are there things
happening when you are driving that keep you from going faster?

Is this carpet or asphalt that you are racing on? Rubber tires?

[ian]

"kenji" <kenji@ripco.com> wrote in message
news:kenji-D6A246.11372528092006@news.ftupet.com...
: In article <YFSSg.54981$wg.23914@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>,
: "ian" <where@remyposts.com> wrote:
:
: > from what i can tell all motors are not equal. I've been told that good
27
: > turn motors can outperform cheaper 19 turn. There's a guy at the club
with
: > a brushless version and his lap times are better than the best 19 turn
: > modified. I don't think i'll go that far yet. Though one shopkeeper
told
: > me that the brushless models do have a bit of lag at the bottom end. I
have
: > a standard fit 17turn reedy motor with my TC4. apparently it isn't
: > rebuildable so once i wear down the brushes that's it.
: >
: > Beginners like myself are put in the 27 turn series. There is beginner
and
: > advanced heats. I am of course a beginner. Along with the 12 year old
kids
: > and their £109 standard shcumachers. As i am being resoundly
thrashed -16
: > laps in the time limit as opposed to 20+ for the rest and 25+ for the
: > regular winner I am allowed to continue with my 17 turn motor for now.
:
: Is your goal is to be able to get to 20 laps like the others?

yup i know where you're going with this.... see bottom of this post
:
: Are you crashing at all during races? If so how many times in a 5 minute
: race?

every damn corner
:
: How is your TC4 handling? Is it hooked up real well or are there things
: happening when you are driving that keep you from going faster?

"back end trying to overtake the front"

: Is this carpet or asphalt that you are racing on? Rubber tires?
erm rubber yes, didn't know there was anything else, and carpet.


Right, first of all i'm crashing like mad.
2nd even going flat out cars are overtaking on straights. -wrong gearing,
possibly speed controller too,

RAcing on carpet with street tyres. - yeah i know! Bought some slicks which
accept tyre additive. Additive on order. - one or two using carpet dragons,
majority use vtec 25 and additive.

rear spoiler needs angle adjusting. - getting lift instead of downforce.
that was how it was glued on. yanked off, scraped off most of glue and
bought washers screws and nuts. paying shop to fit properly

If you saw my earlier post about making a car catch fire i have taken car
and batteries back to shop.
Battery sticks are being seperated and soldered with buzz bars and then
fitted with dean connectors. Car and charger are being fitted with dean
connectors. - less heat buildup, lower resistance.


upon examination shop keeper says rear is lower than the front. front diff
is too stiff, the standard blue shocks are too soft for carpet racing.
washers on rear suspension in wrong place thus shortening wheel base. Left
the car there to be properly balanced. extra £20.
At the moment when driving round a corner whole car just slips sideways into
barrier. Learning to take it slower and ease on power meant drifting round
corners but slightly too much steering and doing a 180.
As for the motor it isn't regulation, so i do need a 27 turn.

Only basic xp2 supplied transmitter so i can't reduce sensitivity by 30% as
one suggested. Don't think i can reduce the max throttle setting. Reducing
to 3/4 was suggested. I currently put smallest finger in the way so i can't
pull trigger fully. That, a few driving tips and driving more than one race
on same batteries helped improve my lap times. Never used a pistol grip
before buying this car. Will need car setup properly before i can make an
informed opinion on interface.

[kenji]

In article <VyTSg.42914$PD.28597@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk>,
"ian" <where@remyposts.com> wrote:
know where you're going with this.... see bottom of this post
> :
> : Are you crashing at all during races? If so how many times in a 5 minute
> : race?
>
> every damn corner

you don't need a different motor. You need to set your car up properly
and get some practice once the car is setup correctly.

Go back to the TC4 manual and reset caster, camber, ride height (5mm all
around), droop and toe-in to what Associated says the car should be at.
Then take a look at what they say to do for a carpet setup. Use whta
they tell you as far as springs go.

For AE springs on our Ozite carpet I was running reds up front and
silvers in the rear.....

Once you've done that and install the proper tires (ask what everyone
else is running, or use what the track says you need to use), use
traction compound, then you should drop your car back down on the track.

Set your steering to full.

Drive the car. the first thing you want is rear traction....so the car's
rear isn't swinging to the front. You should be able to get the car to
almost traction roll. You may need to install a sway bar on the front.

Once the car drives neutrally, then start practicing. Turn your steering
down so as to be able to make the tightest turns.

After you can get around the track for a full five minutes worth of
practicing without having to be marshalled or damaging the car, then you
can start making adjustments to make it go faster. With the first thing
of maybe installing a 27 turn stock motor.

If your car isn't setup properly all you are doing is fighting the car
to try and make it go where you want it to go.

[ian]

"kenji" <kenji@ripco.com> wrote in message
news:kenji-8A0030.14500028092006@news.ftupet.com...
: In article <VyTSg.42914$PD.28597@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk>,
: "ian" <where@remyposts.com> wrote:
: know where you're going with this.... see bottom of this post
: > :
: > : Are you crashing at all during races? If so how many times in a 5
minute
: > : race?
: >
: > every damn corner
:
: you don't need a different motor. You need to set your car up properly
: and get some practice once the car is setup correctly.

You did read the bottom of the post didn't you?
:
: Go back to the TC4 manual and reset caster, camber, ride height (5mm all
: around), droop and toe-in to what Associated says the car should be at.
: Then take a look at what they say to do for a carpet setup. Use whta
: they tell you as far as springs go.

no carpet running manual included. will check the website.
:
: For AE springs on our Ozite carpet I was running reds up front and
: silvers in the rear.....
:
: Once you've done that and install the proper tires (ask what everyone
: else is running, or use what the track says you need to use), use
: traction compound, then you should drop your car back down on the track.

If you'd read the full post you would know that was done.
:
: Set your steering to full.

don't think i can change that at all.

:
: Drive the car. the first thing you want is rear traction....so the car's
: rear isn't swinging to the front. You should be able to get the car to
: almost traction roll. You may need to install a sway bar on the front.
:
: Once the car drives neutrally, then start practicing. Turn your steering
: down so as to be able to make the tightest turns.
:
: After you can get around the track for a full five minutes worth of
: practicing without having to be marshalled or damaging the car, then you
: can start making adjustments to make it go faster. With the first thing
: of maybe installing a 27 turn stock motor.

Yeah will need that to be legal.

:
: If your car isn't setup properly all you are doing is fighting the car
: to try and make it go where you want it to go.

[kenji]

In article <2hYSg.49393$aP3.7811@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>,
"ian" <where@remyposts.com> wrote:

> Yeah will need that to be legal.

point is you need to not crash, and a properly tuned car and practice is
all that is going to change that...oh yeah..that and slowing down.

For a few months when I first started out I ran five cell packs. It
helped alot.

[ian]

"kenji" <kenji@ripco.com> wrote in message
news:kenji-EE6384.21594128092006@news.ftupet.com...
: In article <2hYSg.49393$aP3.7811@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>,
: "ian" <where@remyposts.com> wrote:
:
: > Yeah will need that to be legal.
:
: point is you need to not crash, and a properly tuned car and practice is
: all that is going to change that...oh yeah..that and slowing down.
:
: For a few months when I first started out I ran five cell packs. It
: helped alot.

I'd be concerned about the drop in voltage, may affect other things apart
from the motor.

a 27 turn motor is supposed to be slower than a 17.

i think more acceleration but a lower top speed is in order.

as for other means of driving slower i mentioned them a few posts ago

from 28th september at 18:24
"Only basic xp2 supplied transmitter so i can't reduce sensitivity by 30% as
one suggested. Don't think i can reduce the max throttle setting. Reducing
to 3/4 was suggested. I currently put smallest finger in the way so i can't
pull trigger fully. That, a few driving tips and driving more than one race
on same batteries helped improve my lap times. Never used a pistol grip
before buying this car. Will need car setup properly before i can make an
informed opinion on interface. "

The different shocks is useful though. also mentioned in another post was
advice that existing ones are too soft. i take it silver and red ones are
harder?

[Richard]

"ian" <where@remyposts.com> wrote in message
news:8a7Tg.47058$PD.38131@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.u k...
>
> "kenji" <kenji@ripco.com> wrote in message
> news:kenji-EE6384.21594128092006@news.ftupet.com...
> : In article <2hYSg.49393$aP3.7811@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>,
> : "ian" <where@remyposts.com> wrote:
> :
> : > Yeah will need that to be legal.
> :
> : point is you need to not crash, and a properly tuned car and practice is
> : all that is going to change that...oh yeah..that and slowing down.
> :
> : For a few months when I first started out I ran five cell packs. It
> : helped alot.
>
> I'd be concerned about the drop in voltage, may affect other things apart
> from the motor.
>
> a 27 turn motor is supposed to be slower than a 17.
>
> i think more acceleration but a lower top speed is in order.
>
> as for other means of driving slower i mentioned them a few posts ago
>
> from 28th september at 18:24
> "Only basic xp2 supplied transmitter so i can't reduce sensitivity by 30%
as
> one suggested. Don't think i can reduce the max throttle setting.
Reducing
> to 3/4 was suggested. I currently put smallest finger in the way so i
can't
> pull trigger fully. That, a few driving tips and driving more than one
race
> on same batteries helped improve my lap times. Never used a pistol grip
> before buying this car. Will need car setup properly before i can make an
> informed opinion on interface. "
>
> The different shocks is useful though. also mentioned in another post was
> advice that existing ones are too soft. i take it silver and red ones are
> harder?
>

A lot of people around the world use to run 4 and 5 cell racing, I don't no
how many still do these days. Your radio, servo's and esc require a minimum
of 4.8 volts to operate correctly.

A 27 turn motor may slow you down on top speed but the amount of low end
torque it produces would mean more wheel spin just where you don't want it,
at low speed.

The XP2 has a lot more functions than you give it credit for. You can
adjust your steering dual rates which if you adjusted down a little might
help with your oversteer problem and the throttle ATV high and low, when
adjusted properly can give less brake or throttle. You can also select
between 3 different throttle trigger settings. Personally I like having
mine set to 3/4 throttle and 1/4 brake which gives greater variation in
throttle and a little more control. I also found that my braking power in
my ESC's is greater than I needed for racing, so setting the brake for 1/4
movement on the controls helped me a lot.

Having the radio set-up properly should improve your driving at least 50%

What type and how many battery packs and charger when you race?

What batteries are the other guys running with the 27 turn motors?


Cheers

[ian]

"Richard" <DK@Hotmail.com.au> wrote in message
news:451d0cd0$1@quokka.wn.com.au...
: > : > Yeah will need that to be legal.
: > :
: > : point is you need to not crash, and a properly tuned car and practice
is
: > : all that is going to change that...oh yeah..that and slowing down.
: > :
: > : For a few months when I first started out I ran five cell packs. It
: > : helped alot.
: >
: > I'd be concerned about the drop in voltage, may affect other things
apart
: > from the motor.
: >
: > a 27 turn motor is supposed to be slower than a 17.
: >
: > i think more acceleration but a lower top speed is in order.
: >
: > as for other means of driving slower i mentioned them a few posts ago
: >
: > from 28th september at 18:24
: > "Only basic xp2 supplied transmitter so i can't reduce sensitivity by
30%
: as
: > one suggested. Don't think i can reduce the max throttle setting.
: Reducing
: > to 3/4 was suggested. I currently put smallest finger in the way so i
: can't
: > pull trigger fully. That, a few driving tips and driving more than one
: race
: > on same batteries helped improve my lap times. Never used a pistol grip
: > before buying this car. Will need car setup properly before i can make
an
: > informed opinion on interface. "
: >
: > The different shocks is useful though. also mentioned in another post
was
: > advice that existing ones are too soft. i take it silver and red ones
are
: > harder?
: >
:
: A lot of people around the world use to run 4 and 5 cell racing, I don't
no
: how many still do these days. Your radio, servo's and esc require a
minimum
: of 4.8 volts to operate correctly.

That's interesting

:
: A 27 turn motor may slow you down on top speed but the amount of low end
: torque it produces would mean more wheel spin just where you don't want
it,
: at low speed.

hmm. Current motor needs a good run up before topping out. i need to reach
top speed then be slowing by the corners.

:
: The XP2 has a lot more functions than you give it credit for. You can
: adjust your steering dual rates which if you adjusted down a little might
: help with your oversteer problem and the throttle ATV high and low, when
: adjusted properly can give less brake or throttle.

do i have to actively select reverse to brake as in my cen mini monster?
That wouldn't allow reverse whilst moving forward but acted as a brake.
When at a complete stop a second reverse command would make it go back
(except it didn't there was massive hesitation and sometimes it wouldn't
reverse more than 1meter per minute). I assumed there was no clutch so less
acceleration didn't mean coasting but active breaking too.


You can also select
: between 3 different throttle trigger settings. Personally I like having
: mine set to 3/4 throttle and 1/4 brake which gives greater variation in
: throttle and a little more control. I also found that my braking power in
: my ESC's is greater than I needed for racing, so setting the brake for 1/4
: movement on the controls helped me a lot.

I shall investigate further.

:
: Having the radio set-up properly should improve your driving at least 50%
:

Lets hope so.

: What type and how many battery packs and charger when you race?

3700mah vapex. stick design. prodigy II charger. 4 races. 1 pack per two
races. have been slow charging at 2 amps rather than 5 amp quick charge.

: What batteries are the other guys running with the 27 turn motors?

3000, 3300, 3700 mah batteries. Home made racing spec stuff usually £50
upwards. setup to 'dump' the battery in one race. usually large fans going
and fast charging.
: Cheers

http://www.modelsinmotion.co.uk/product.asp?productid=8071&catCode=143&tamiya=258
the team orion v2 27turn looks good at only £14.99