Just found this beauty. What is it?

[jrgospod]

Just found this beauty. What is it?

Just got home from the LHS and they had this beauty for sale at $85. I just could not pass it up. Anyone know what the name is or anything about it.

Thanks!

John

P.S. 100" WS and 44" nose to V-tail TE. 8.5" cord.

[OVSS Boss]

An Aquila V-Tail John, I think. The fuse is for sure and the wing looks right...

Marc

[ferincr]

Ditto.
Although the original Aquila has a X tail this has to be a home mod.(the tail)
Fernando

[jrgospod]

I'm not sure it has ever been in the air. Looks new. Thanks for the info!

John

[jrgospod]

Marc,

I had to run out but am back now. The sales tag said "20 year old V-Tail". It had been marked down twice from $125.00 to $95.00 then to $ 85.00. If I had seen it at the original price I would have jumped on it anyway. It’s kind of sad that the builder didn’t get to see it in the air.

I wasn't sure but I had a hunch it was an Aquila. I think it may be a led sled. It feels heavy. I just checked and it came in at 36.5oz w/o equipment. I guess that isn’t so bad for 100”. It has 1.7oz of lead in the nose and a mechanical V-tail setup for the servo connections. Maybe I can move the servos forward and use radio V-Tail mixing and get the extra weight out of the nose. The covering is impeccable and the pod finish is flawless. I think it will be a keeper.

John

[skipinhouston]

Cool.
That is exactly what it is.
An Aquila with a Vee tail, but no spoilers.
How come you yankees get all the goodies (LOL)?
Ski in Houston

[jrgospod]

Just dumb luck finding it Ski. I think it may be from an estate because the storeowner did not recognize the name that put it on consignment. Glad to know what it is. Now I need to find the CG and setup instructions. This will be a good weather flyer. It is just too nice to risk in marginal weather.

John

[Ollie]

I would not fly it until I fixed its sluggish turning response with lots of dihedral or ailerons.

[skipinhouston]

The Aquila plans show the c/g to be on or just behind the center wing joiner. Mount the tow hook starting 1/2" in front of the c/g and experiment by moving back.
Did you see the "Ta-quila" I'm making from original Aquila wings? Pod and boom with a Bubble Dancer style tail. I tried using the original horizontal stab but it was to big and heavy.
Guess I should post pictures, huh?
Skip in Houston

[bobby legue]

I would dump that mechanical mixer and fly it computer style. You could even mix in an airbrake. Cool....
But thats just me,
Bob

[OVSS Boss]

Direct servo control is always best, just less stuff to fail. and would help your balance issue.

Marc

[BobGilmore]

Lucky!
I was eyeing that bird the other day! Great looking aircraft. Good luck with her.

Cheers,
Bob

[jrgospod]

Did you see the "Ta-quila" I'm making from original Aquila wings? Pod and boom with a Bubble Dancer style tail. I tried using the original horizontal stab but it was to big and heavy.
Guess I should post pictures, huh?
Skip in Houston

Thanks for the CG info! Post away with the pics. Sounds like a good project.

I would dump that mechanical mixer and fly it computer style. You could even mix in an airbrake. Cool....
But thats just me,
Bob

Ya, dumping the mixer sounds like a good plan, but I’m not following the AirBrake comment.


Lucky!
I was eyeing that bird the other day! Great looking aircraft. Good luck with her.

Cheers,
Bob

Thanks for leaving it for me!



John

[jrgospod]

I would not fly it until I fixed its sluggish turning response with lots of dihedral or ailerons.

I don’t quite understand Ollie? Does this plane have a reputation? This is 2 ch poly and my intensions are to fly it as such. I did notice that it was built without much (if any) washout. I will correct that before I try any hand tosses.

John


P.S. I just checked and it has only about 5 degrees of break at each tip. It has some dihedral but not a lot. It is hard to measure but about 5 degrees on each wing. Ten total.

[skipinhouston]

Here is the rebirth of an old Aquila. I only hope it flys as good as the original.
Don't trash those old birds, rebuild them.
Skip in Houston

[Ollie]

For polyhedral, put the plane upside down on a table. The wing tips rest on the table. The center of the wing needs to have at least 6 inches above the table.

[MrThermal]

John, yea I saw that hanging from the ceiling last week.
It had a price of $100 on it.
I didn't like the V tail and it looked like VERY LITTLE polyhedral to me
Tipstall city
But very good looking with nice workmanship
So I passed ... good luck with it
Steve

PS got my Berg & crystal shipped for $33.20 , nice

[jrgospod]

Steve,

You mean I have to also thank you for this great plane? I’m not really concerned about the dihedral. I will add some washout to the tips and it should fly great. The V-Tail surfaces look to be wide enough to turn this ship ok.

John

[Ollie]

"The V-Tail surfaces look to be wide enough to turn this ship ok."

Not so. The need of enough wing dihedral/polyhedral is so the yaw to roll coupling to turn the plane enough. Be careful of slugish turn response! When the bank, beyond a few degrees, won't response enough and crash the plane.

[MrThermal]

For polyhedral, put the plane upside down on a table. The wing tips rest on the table. The center of the wing needs to have at least 6 inches above the table.

What does yours measure ?

[jrgospod]

What does yours measure ?

It’s really kind of hard to measure. You have to get the wing cord level and with the v-tail you have to raise the wing level from the floor if the plane is upside down. I have the manor dinning table in storage and the current table is not that long. I measured it two different ways and came up with 5 ¼ to my best effort. The dihedral on second check is about 9 degrees total (4 ½ per side). The wing now has a small amount of wash-in. I figure with the added wash-out that I will add before flying it will be approaching the 6 inches number that Ollie has mentioned when I’m finished re-shrinking the covering. The one thing I’m not sure of is what the stock setup was. I also have not seen an answered my earlier question (Does this plane have a reputation?).

John

[BobGilmore]

John, it's your job to give the plane it's reputation! ;)
Where do you guys from Ft. Wayne fly? Club or on your own?

Bob

[jrgospod]

John, it's your job to give the plane it's reputation! ;)
Where do you guys from Ft. Wayne fly? Club or on your own?

Bob


Maybe I should have said “design” and not “plane”, but your point is well taken. I fly with the LOFT club here in Fort Wayne when the weather is good and schedule permits.

http://www.loftrc.org/

LOFT has a contest this weekend but a family reunion has priority. LOFT is a MOM dominated club and I am retired so I fly mostly by myself or with a few friends during the week. I’m not a competition type of person and I do not enjoy being told to launch in sink and land in lift. Contest for me sometimes consists of driving the cart and enjoying visiting with the people. A big part of soaring achievement for me is being able to pick your air/launch-time and find the next thermal for longer durations. That said I still have work to do to be proficient at that. It sure is fun learning. Well that should answer your questions and the sun just came out. I may have to go fly.

John

[BobGilmore]

Yea Sun!
I've been out to a few of the contests to watch. Fun to watch and learn.
I fly with a few friends out south. PM me some time, maybe we can fly during the week.

Cheers,
Bob

[kf2qd]

I would not fly it until I fixed its sluggish turning response with lots of dihedral or ailerons.


A glider that size has a bit of inertia in the turn axis and the roll axis. I wouldn't expect it to be quick responding bird under the best of conditions, but oh so graceful...

[jrgospod]

A glider that size has a bit of inertia in the turn axis and the roll axis. I wouldn't expect it to be quick responding bird under the best of conditions, but oh so graceful...


Thanks for the info Kf2qd!!!

That’s my intensions. This is a week day flyer. I have my best flying on week days when you all are at work. It’s Just me and maybe MeThermal out at the local flying field. It doesn’t get any better. Just laid back flying for the fun of it. Hope you all get to that point sometime.!!!!!

John

P.S. what does kf2qd stand for. Anything to do with kites?

[jrgospod]

The Aquila plans show the c/g to be on or just behind the center wing joiner. Skip in Houston

Skip, thanks for the tip on the CG. It was right on. I just had my first flights this A.M. I did some hand tosses Wednesday but decided I needed to add some washout that I had forgot to and I called it for the day. I also needed to do some more radio mix tuning. I have an MPX EVO-9 and I do not use the V-tail mixes much so I didn’t want to do field changes.

Anyway, I went to the field today at 9 A.M. and the grass was still wet. The sun was just poking thru the low east clouds and the wind was calm to 3mph. I did one more hand toss before I set out the hi-start. That went flawless. The first launch went up at about 75 degrees and straight as an arrow. I did not use full strength on my hi-start so I got about 85% of my normal launch. It didn’t seem like much lift but after a few clicks of up trim it just seem to cruse. I hit some very light lift and was amazed how it maintained its speed in the turns. With the added washout it had no tip stall tendency even in real tight turns. It is one of the smoothest planes I have ever flown. I never got that much above launch height but the flight was going well at 5 minutes. I decided to try to really wrap it up in the turns and see how it handled. It came thru with flying colors. I did loose some altitude so I decided to try the landing. No complaints on landing either. It is not the kind of plane I will be interested in spot landing but it floated in nice and just seemed to glide and glide for the longest time. I had to walk a ways, but that is always better than building. The next launch I deliberately tossed it to the right side about 20 degrees to see what it would do. To my amazement it tracked well and actually corrected itself some on the way up. I had pulled the hi-start back for a full launch and I got it. No zoom but no wind also. I just flew off the hook just before Top Dead Center.

The thing I found interesting is that I did not see and wing wiggle to tell me that I was in lift. Maybe I just hit all the lift I encountered straight on, but I doubt that. It would just slow down some and start to rise. Not the tail up or tail down type of signal I’m use to, but just a speed change and level rising. I’ll have to get use to that before I get it out at sight limits.

Well Thanks again to all for the tips and keep looking at the LHS for the gems that pop up now and then. It can be real rewarding.

John

P.S. The ALW is 43.1oz. Without the specs I have know idea if that is a “good” build weight and wing loading. All I can say is it flies good at that weight and I like it. I ended up with 1.3oz in the nose to balance as Skip instructed. Thanks again Skip.

[Ollie]

I was wrong and you were right. Good job.

[jrgospod]

Ollie,

Without you warnings I may have stumbled into flying without the added washout and had a bad outcome. I just got back from the field again. I was worried about how it would fly in the wind and the wind had kicked up to 11-15 so I had to try. I launched and found a lot of lift. I got to scary-high and decided to dump altitude. It was hard getting it down without spoilers. I ended up going inverted and spilled out of that before I wanted to. I worked it down and then set up for a landing. As I attempted to make the downwind turn back to the field I had full right rudder and no response. I just held the rudder over and pushed the nose down a little and it did come around. It should not have been flying in the wind I had but it did fly nice till I had the downwind turn. It is definitely a keeper but in the wind it does not have the airfoil or rudder to be a great flyer. I thank you for the heads-up on the rudder so I didn’t freak when it was slow to respond.

John

P.S. I landed at 11 minutes and 43 seconds.

[Ollie]

In my opinion the "downwind turn" is a myth. See:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=522513&page=34&pp=20
With R/C models, keep up the airspeed with enough margin before stalling (not ground speed) and use a wide turn with moderate bank until the pilot flys straight into the wind. Then the pilot flies the plane with inches of the ground. Then the pilot reduces the ground speed (with throtle or, flaps or, spoilers or, parachute or, paticence) till the plane plops to the ground. The solution is pilots skill flying, picking the right equipment, keeping the wing loading light. The pilot skill is picking the air turbulent conditions with enough airspeed marigin above stalling.

Stop excusing the "downwind turn". Think from another point of view.
Last edited by Ollie : Today at 06:47 AM.

"Heck, in german language there isn't even a phrase coined equivalent to 'downwind turn'.
And guess what, I never have seen any discussions on such in german rc forums.

If the pilot isn't able to cope with the actual mechanics of flight,
nor understands the basics of the newtonial physics going on,
he has indeed to admit and blame himself for that.

Most people are not used to such basic and yet helpfull principles
like the equivalence of inertial reference frames,
or they simply fail to apply them to mechanical problems in a sensible way.

So if you don't know or understand what really happens,
continue speaking of the mighty evil downwind turn,
fear it like a secret hidden monster,
be surprised if it catches you again and again already.

It's like believing, electricity has to be some sort of weird voodoo magic,
because it is not visible and you are not even understanding at least roughly how it works.

biber"

[jrgospod]

I don’t have the education or background to go into the principles of the problem I saw, but I do know that the added speed of the down elevator got me out of it. I will defiantly add speed to the final legs of my approach on this plane. You are correct that I did not have enough speed. It is a hard call when you are going down wind fast and need to turn back into the wind. Kind of counter intuitive to add speed just to make the turn but I instinctively realized that it was needed and pushed on the elevator. Anyway it worked and all came out well.

John

[marfish]

You've just witnessed what claims a lot of slope planes. :) Slopers love the wind (more wind is better). Due to the nature of slope flying the difference in the perception of speed is greater than for a thermaller. :o A slope plane will often have a fast leg along the hill and a slow leg due to the wind not comming up the face straight on, thereby creating an indirect headwind and a tailwind effect to some degree. I've seen F3F racers go into a critical tip stall and crash on the turn at the end of the tailwind leg, :( but not the other way around. Also, flying straight toward the lip from out "there" gives the pilot the illusion that the plane is flying much faster than when it is flying away from the lip and causes stalls at the turn. Time on the sticks, and the hill, getting used to the reactions and speeds of the plane in varying conditions helps avoid re-kitting.
One thing I've learned to use on the slope is the advantage of height above the ground. Quite often a plane gets into trouble at a "percieved" low altitude, when there could be 100-500 feet of space below so, DON'T PANIC. I learned that gravity is a two edged sword in that you need it to accelerate the plane but if you don't recover soon enough, you'll be re-building. When I panic, I usually spin in and...you guessed it...re-build. When I hold the nose over and let gravity do it's best work before doing an easy pull-out, I can hear a collective sigh from those who are witness to the near kiss of death.
Today I was slermalling my Encore, sometimes two feet off the ground 'cause the "cloudy-day" wind was only farting up the back of the hill with some tiny thermals tossed in. A couple of paraglider pilots were talking to me and giving a running dialog of how impressed with the agility of the DLG and bla,bla, bla,...and when, at one point I was low and not in the best slope lift, I got down to about 10 inches altitude and maybe 2mph ground speed, one said in dissappointment, "she's down now". I flew out of there and around continuosly for another 20 minutes before practicing my hand catches. My point is that proximity to the ground does not guarantee the end of the flight, and knowing what your plane can do, or be willing to test it(safely of course) creates some very rewarding moments. I sometimes get close enough to get snagged by one of the taller weeds or two with a wing and fly off with it because I try to eak out every last breath of air under the wing before giving up. Which is not to say that I'm all that effecient at it by any means: I just get lucky a lot. :p
Lotsa lift,
Marlan

[kf2qd]

It's my Ham call sign, been using for my ID on the web as it is unique to me.

[kf2qd]

Possible reason for the tip stalls when sloping has to do with the bank angle in the turn. The steeper the bank the more G's the wing sees, the more G's the wing sees the more effective weight the wing sees, the more effective weight the wing sees the higher the stall speed. Stall speed of the wing is not just a function of airspeed, it is a function of airspeed for a given weight, and that is affected by bank angle. You also might be seeing some sliding of the plane if the turn is not well coordinated. (the ball in the tube in a real aircraft) and that also affect the stall characteristics.

The glider sees only the air it is flying in and makes only turns, no upwind or downwind turns. Those terms only mean something in reference to the ground. The downwind turn problem is that the pilot starts looking at other references for speed other than the wind the plane is flying in. When a plane is flying upwind it has the same airspeed at it has flying downwind, but the GROUNDSPEED might be very different each direction. But the plane is not flying in the ground, but in the wind which it independent of the ground.

[doddlepots]

It all comes down to what an earlier slope master said in a book I read light years ago:

"BEFORE turning downwind :- GET SOME EXTRA HEIGHT; DIVE SLIGHTLY CROSS-WIND TO GET SOME SPEED; and then TURN downwind (dont just let it mush), STRAIGHT DOWNWIND LEG; 90 DEGREE TURN, STRAIGHT CROSSWIND LEG; 90 DEGREE TURN INTO WIND. This way you will still have plenty of forward (wind) speed) and should be able to do a controlled approach.

A CONTINOUS CURVE APPROACH IS POSSIBLE FOR THE MORE EXPERTS BUT MUCH HARDER TO CONTROL HEIGHT OR AIR-SPEED AS SLIP COMES INTO THE EQUATION AND THE HEIGHT LOSS IS VERY DIFFICULT TO JUDGE.

HAPPY LANDINGS, ALL!

[marfish]

Dittos on both the two above posts.
The more I fly on the slope the less I judge the plane from the ground and more from the air. I am beginning to "feel" the plane's behavior and reaction to the controls as an indicator for what is happening in the air. Often while staying within a thermal, I'll be so focussed on the flight of the plane that I'll forget it is also drifting with the wind until it passes over.
Marlan

[Mike the Snake]

I think it didn't turn in the wind because it didn't possibly have enough dihedral.
I have a big 3.4/4 meter rudder/ele glider, like an old Multiplex scale plane, got it the same way at an estate sale.
I bent the wire wng rods almost straight because I thought it looked better (This was a LONG time ago) flew great, but once there was any wind, I'd add rudder, more rudder, nothing, nothing, then snap around. I put the dihedral back and now I can crank tight circles in wind no problem.
RES NEEDS dihedral to turn! Does not work without it.
For some reason too, I'm not sure if that plane IS an Aquila. Looks like something else to me. Compare wingplan and sheeting in the pics of the pod$boom Aquila.

[jrgospod]

Mike, It was flying fine into the wind. The problem came on the downwind turn. Without speed I was effectively flying at zero air speed and the rudder will not work without air flowing over it. When I was flying into the wind I had the air moving over the tail surfaces and had no problem turning so I doubt if the dihedral was the problem.

You could be correct that it is not and Aquila. I checked the wing with the Airtronics plans and the number of ribs does not match on the center or tip panels. The fuse has a v-tail and the plans have a std. tail. I’m not sure what to make of it. It’s a beautiful ship but I’m beginning to wonder about the origin.

John

P.S. The front part of the fuse looks correct. It even has the Airtronics Deluxe Skid and Super Adjustable Towhook that are shown on the plans.

[Mike the Snake]

It's too square, and the Aquila had a clear canopy, that fuse has a wooden front.
It's not an Aquila of that I'm sure.
Flying downwind you gotta get skootin good for sure to keep good control.

[mustangsforme]

Light years is a measure of distance, not time.....

I been looking at articles about downwind turns.

The other side of it is the situation where a flat-bottomed wing trainer zooms upwards when turning from downwind flying to a direction into the wind. It causes probs with learners that I've seen.

My 2c worth.....

[georgeg]

I could be wrong but I don't think this is actually an Aquila. I seem to recall hearing about a V-tailed Renaud design that was intermediate between the Esprit series and the Aquila. It wouldn't surprise me if the fuselage resembled the later Aquila. Perhaps this is one of those models. As far as I know, it never entered production and I've never heard a name for it.

[jrgospod]

I could be wrong but I don't think this is actually an Aquila.



Thanks for the additional info georgeg! Here are some more pictures if anyone has any other ideas please let me know. I may be out of contact for a few weeks so if I don’t get back soon I have not forgotten, just not online.

John