Plan BlingBlingv3 by Didier [Archive]

Pjotrrr

Sep 07, 2006, 06:49 AM

Thanks to Didier to give permission for publishing and Prop-er for his Rhino work to digitalise the plans for this GREAT F3P plane!!!

This plane is designed and flown by Didier in the Dutch and German F3P championships earlier this year.

VERY neutral flying design with almost the same surface area in vertical fuselage and wings, almost no need for rudder in knife edge, great performance in rolling figures.

Recommended AUW is 120-130 grams, best light servo's are the Dymond D47.

Have fun!!!

http://www.rcplans.nl/RC%20foto-album/blingbling/BlingBlingV3_by_Didier_A0.PDF
http://www.rcplans.nl/RC%20foto-album/blingbling/BlingBlingV3_by_Didier_A1_Page1.PDF
http://www.rcplans.nl/RC%20foto-album/blingbling/BlingBlingV3_by_Didier_A1_Page2.PDF
http://www.rcplans.nl/RC%20foto-album/blingbling/BlingBlingV3_by_Didier_A4_tiled.PDF
http://www.rcplans.nl/RC%20foto-album/blingbling/BlingBlingV3_by_Didier_LETTER_tiled.PDF

Edit: Here's a pic of Didier's BBv3:

http://foto.modelbouwforum.nl/albums/userpics/10560/DM_06%20%2816%29.jpg

matchlessaero

Sep 07, 2006, 07:20 AM

Any pics of a completed version?

Foamy Love

Sep 07, 2006, 07:50 AM

Thanks for the plans. :) Some pics would be nice though.

Erik Johansson

Sep 07, 2006, 08:06 AM

Here is a link to a recent thread about this design:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=563873

/Erik

Pjotrrr

Sep 07, 2006, 08:49 AM

This is Didier's model:

http://foto.modelbouwforum.nl/albums/userpics/10560/DM_06%20%2816%29.jpg

And here you can see Didier flying it at the Open German F3P Championships:

http://foto.modelbouwforum.nl/albums/userpics/10269/_L4K0755Sm.JPG

http://foto.modelbouwforum.nl/albums/userpics/10269/F3P-ApilotsMulh.JPG

Data F3P planes:

http://people.freenet.de/slowfly/modelldaten2006-2.gif

The Open German F3P Championship can be seen as the 'unofficial European championship'.....

Aito, Smove and Snowflakes are biplanes, all others are monoplanes.

Strecker motoren: www.rs-e-motoren.de
Flyware Micro Rex: www.lipoly.com
WES carbon props: www.wes-technik.de

Trisquire

Sep 07, 2006, 09:31 AM

The 11 gram Strecker motor (195 03) comes in two winds. The 96 wind is for 3s packs and the 74 wind is for 2s packs. Performance is similar, as is the system weight since the 2s batteries need to be capable of a higher current draw than the 3s batteries.

All BlingBlings are all flown with a 96 wind Strecker 195 03?

Tom

Pjotrrr

Sep 07, 2006, 09:35 AM

Yes, all three used also 3s300 lipo's...
I see the 96 wind is not mentioned on the website, can be ordered though...

3dflyindan

Sep 07, 2006, 09:38 AM

i no this may seem stupid but why did they use 3 cells ? most people ive heard are using 2cellls ??

dan

Pjotrrr

Sep 07, 2006, 09:41 AM

They chose for less Amps/more Volts
The 3spacks could be at the same weight as other used 2spacks because of the less Amps draw....

Bert v/d Vecht

Sep 07, 2006, 10:23 AM

The Data was collected at the qualifier (North) for the German open indoor champs.

After that contest I changed to Didier's new V3 design and used that plane in the finals. The change was dramatic! At the qualifier I just barely made the finals with only 1 place to spare. (9th position of 10 spots to go trough to the final.)

In the finals I used the V3 design to improve to 5th place in a field that comprised the 10 best pilots from the North and the 10 best pilots from the Southern German qualifier.

I feel the V3 design contributed to the improvement. My V3 used the 2cell 74wind motor and 2s Etec 450 lipo's.

Here is a video of one of the rounds in the final.
http://airtoimedia.nl/web/upload/vdVechten/F3P-A-Bert-Esch.wmv

As you can see I used a more rounded nose for esthetic reasons only.

Foamy Love

Sep 07, 2006, 11:35 AM

Nice flying. I always love watching a good F3P flight. :)

Prop-er

Sep 07, 2006, 12:14 PM

Right...The scaling of the A0 and A1 sized plans is incorrect. I have taken these plans OFFLINE, and will fix them tomorrow morning. (I don't have acces to the model right now...GRRRR).

Sorry for the inconvience.

Jerry Combs

Sep 07, 2006, 12:41 PM

Prop-er,

No need to be sorry. I appreciate your taking the time and effort to do this. Thank you Didier for making your design available.

Jerry

dorjes

Sep 07, 2006, 12:43 PM

What kind of bracing is being used on the plane ? Looks like some carbon bracing underneath the fuselage , and maybe some kevlar or monofiliment on the tail , but I'm not sure about the wing bracing . Anyone have info or have a picture underneath to show the bracing ?

This looks like a really nice design.

Thanks, Dorin Luck

Pjotrrr

Sep 07, 2006, 01:13 PM

Here are two pictures of my 63cm span model based on the BBv3, this model uses an 8 gram Strecker motor and a 17 grams 2s300 lipo.
Lightened D47's directly soldered to lightened RX and a CC Phoenix 10 with lighter shorter cables.
The crossbracing under the wings is 1mm carbon, bracing of the tail can be done with 0,5mm carbon.
The center of the cross under the wing is connected with a standing rod to the wing.
Dick and Bert van der Vecht came with this light and torsionfree solution...
And yes, we have red 3mm depron over here, it's sold by Graupner ;)

ChrisBowker

Sep 07, 2006, 01:23 PM

awesome!

Chris

Foamy Love

Sep 07, 2006, 01:52 PM

Thanks for the detailed pics!! :cool:

Pjotrrr

Sep 07, 2006, 04:12 PM

Smart idea for a straight build:

http://www.armc.nl/Album/Robin/BlingBling_V3/BlingBlingV3_07.jpg

With the one in prop-er's plans you can build it on a flat surface with only the bottom fuselage part including all the carbon bracing.
The top part of the fuselage comes after that...

dorjes

Sep 07, 2006, 04:47 PM

This is terrific information - thanks. I recently braced a bipe with 1mm carbon cross braces between the wings , and when I tied the braces together with kevlar string , the structure became incredibly rigid. So the wing has no carbon anywhere other than the 1mm cross braces tied together ?

Dorin Luck

Pjotrrr

Sep 07, 2006, 05:06 PM

No other carbon needed, just be sure to cover 3/5 of the length of each wing with the crossbrace.

Prop-er

Sep 08, 2006, 02:47 AM

All drawings are back online. Please note that I've drawn downthrust on the vertical fuse. This was a mistake. No downthrust is needed.

All plans have been updated to zero downthrust.

Prop-er

Sep 09, 2006, 03:34 AM

A0 full-size top and side views:
www.rcplans.nl/RC%20foto-album/blingbling/BlingBlingV3_A0_topview.PDF
www.rcplans.nl/RC%20foto-album/blingbling/BlingBlingV3_A0_sideview.PDF

3-views & perspective view (not to scale !!!)
www.rcplans.nl/RC%20foto-album/blingbling/BlingBlingV3_3views_NO_SCALE.PDF

Top and side views in graphic formats JPG and PNG (for making your airbrush designs...)
www.rcplans.nl/RC%20foto-album/blingbling/BlingBlingV3.png
www.rcplans.nl/RC%20foto-album/blingbling/BlingBlingV3.jpg

Vincent

crossup

Sep 09, 2006, 08:29 AM

and the purpose of the holes in control surface outer ends?

crossup

Sep 09, 2006, 08:37 AM

think I'll do one of these in 2MM Depron and adding CF ribbon(much lighter than standard rectangular CF spar) on LE,TE and fuse edges ala Ikarus and braces on horizontal/vert stab

Foamy Love

Sep 11, 2006, 06:38 AM

and the purpose of the holes in control surface outer ends?

They create vortecies (sp????) that really help to slow the plane by disturbing the air. Great for f3p no so great for 3d.

Prop-er

Sep 11, 2006, 09:13 AM

Logo:

http://www.rcplans.nl/RC%20foto-album/blingbling/blingblingv3_logo.jpg

fro540

Sep 15, 2006, 08:18 AM

too funny! ... thanks for the plans :D

dorjes

Sep 29, 2006, 11:24 AM

I'm about to finish my Bling. Looks like it will weigh around 4.5 oz. all up. I've always used 2mm carbon for landing gear legs - anybody tried 1.5 carbon on the landing gear? I figure at 4.5 oz. you could get away with the lighter gear.

Dorin Luck

Petr Chyska

Oct 03, 2006, 02:22 AM

Hello everyone,

This is my first design of F3P-A monoplane. I was inspired by Bling bling. The next one is under construction already. I'm gonna make some little changes at the next one.

Petr

3Don

Oct 03, 2006, 08:24 AM

Petr Chyska

Oct 03, 2006, 09:37 AM

Hello Petr,

Looking good, any specs of new plane, how does it fly compared with bipe?
I talk with Dieder and Van Der Vecht's about monoplane vs biplane for indoor flying, and i still believe bipe is better. Anyway these small monoplanes is good solution for guys that flying in small gym.

By the way how you making these small holes on ailerons and elevator?

Are you planing to be in Carvin, who else coming from Czech?

Donatas,

Hello Donatas !

The new one is supposed to be about 130g and wingspan approx. 800mm. I'm still not sure what is better for F3P-A. I have flown with this monoplane just twice and the precision adjustment wasn't done yet. Anyway I haven't been so satisfied about this plane as I expected. There is just one way I think - to bring along a monoplane and biplane to hall and compare them. We are going to Carvin I think. I'm not sure who is gonna come but David, Boris, Jan Sedlacek, Jan Spatny, Tomas, me, etc... are gonna be in I guess.
I made the holes by a tiny tube from an old transmitter antenna. My mate made the same plane like me but he didn't make the holes and when he borrowed me that for a flying test so I didnt see any differences. It wasn't adjusted pretty well though.

I'm so looking forward to see you all at competitions !

Petr

power

Oct 03, 2006, 05:58 PM

Thanks so much for the plans :) I am in the middle of building the Bling Bling and I have a couple questions, I can't see if there are actually wheels on Didiers plane. Are there wheels, or some other type of "skid" behind the wheel pants? Do the F3P planes usually get by without wheels? Thanks :)

Mike

3Don

Oct 04, 2006, 05:05 AM

Hello Donatas !

The new one is supposed to be about 130g and wingspan approx. 800mm. I'm still not sure what is better for F3P-A. I have flown with this monoplane just twice and the precision adjustment wasn't done yet. Anyway I haven't been so satisfied about this plane as I expected. There is just one way I think - to bring along a monoplane and biplane to hall and compare them. We are going to Carvin I think. I'm not sure who is gonna come but David, Boris, Jan Sedlacek, Jan Spatny, Tomas, me, etc... are gonna be in I guess.
I made the holes by a tiny tube from an old transmitter antenna. My mate made the same plane like me but he didn't make the holes and when he borrowed me that for a flying test so I didnt see any differences. It wasn't adjusted pretty well though.

I'm so looking forward to see you all at competitions !

Petr
Again i think monoplanes are better for freestyle, 95% of pilots will pick bipe for indoor pattern. Except naturally Dutch team, it would be nice to test Bling bling with setup they using. Anyway Van Der Vecht flights are faster than any bipe i ever seen, control of plane is amazing but personaly i don't like speed in indoor pattern, but that's again good question for discusion, maybe some judges like it some not.
Nice to see all Czech team are going, if all goes as im planing, 3 pilots from Lithuania will also be there.

And yes im also looking forward to see you all:)

I will make these holes in my new pattern planes, will see how they work.
Also maybe someone know, what B seq will look like in this year in Carvin, two friends will fly in this class.

Cheers Donatas,

Bert v/d Vecht

Oct 04, 2006, 06:22 AM

95% of pilots will pick bipe for indoor pattern.

Hi Don,

At the last German open indoor aerobatic championships final exactly 50% of the F3p "A" class pilots flew monoplanes. (In 2005 only 15% flew monoplanes.)

Hope to see you at Carvin.

@Power: Yes, the Bling bling has wheels.

HonzaS

Oct 04, 2006, 11:32 AM

hello all idoor pilots, I have a new monoplane for F3P, and I think it is much better than my old biplane Predator. The new monoplane Predator evo is biger than Bert´s one, but I think it flies slower than Bling Bling. I´m not 100% sure if monoplane is right choice for me, but Peter Chyska and other guys from czech team said that it is very good plane. I´ll see at first competition.
See you soon
HonzaS

3Don

Oct 06, 2006, 07:45 AM

Hi Bert,

Maybe 95% was to brave anouncement:) I forgot about Germans, many of them use monoplanes for pattern. Will Dieder be in Carvin?
Also what planes you and Derk are planing to use this year for freestyle, same Yak's?

Looking forward to see you in Carvin.

Honsa your new plane looks really nice, any plane spec's? How work these wingtips?

Best luck Donatas,

HonzaS

Oct 06, 2006, 09:36 AM

Hi Donatas,
It is my small secret:-) No, I don´t know how to explain it correctly, but it helps to stability on slow speeds. I´ll learn english and I´ll explain it to you in Carvin:-)
See you soon and have a nice time!
HonzaS

HonzaS

Oct 06, 2006, 10:00 AM

My monoplane is 92cm long,span. is something about 82cm, weight is (only:-)) 145 gr. It is slower than my old biplane Predator1. it is biger than bling, my old monoplane vas 79cm (span.) big and it was not so slow and stabil in knife edges etc...

HonzaS

enigmabomb

Oct 06, 2006, 11:13 AM

HonzaS,

Do they have any indoor competitions coming up near Prague? Or somewhere relatively close?

Josh

HonzaS

Oct 06, 2006, 12:45 PM

Hi enigmabomb,
Next weekend(14.) will be competition in Tyn nad Vltavou, it is 120Km (about 90miles+-) "under" Prag.In prag will be competition in februar.
HonzaS

dorjes

Oct 07, 2006, 12:17 AM

My Bling V3 is finished and flown. 141 grams all up with TP 2s 480 pack , Cyclon Nano , CC 10 , Berg 4 , 1 Fut. 3110 and 2 Blue Arrow 4.3. 1mm carbon trussing the fuselage , with 1.5 mm gear legs.

Built with the 1mm carbon truss on the wings with no other carbon - I had my doubts if the wing would be stiff enough but it works fine. Really like the plane - really holds the line in knife edge well , very little roll couple , pitches to the canopy some with right rudder , none with left rudder. Upright harriers well , great roll rate , stable in rolling circles. Seems a little unstable in inverted harrier compared to , say , my Ikarus F3A , but I'm using 3d rates and probably pulling harder on the rudder than I should , and I suspect this will resolve itself with more practice. Very stable in a hover . All in all , an excellent design , and one that 3ds well. The pattern flying I did was limited to stall turns off vertical uplines , but these were clean and precise. Our gym is small to practice F3P in but I'll work on the sequence. I'll build another Bling for sure when this one goes in for good.

Thanks for the design , gentlemen.

By the way , the Cyclon Nano is a nice motor - plenty of power for the Bling. I'm using the the GWS 8x4 prop.

Dorin Luck

Petr Chyska

Oct 09, 2006, 05:56 PM

Hi,

This is my last monoplane. It's based on Bling Bling. Still needs minor adjustments but flies pretty good actually.
Sorry for the quality of pics.

Greetings
Petr

3dflyindan

Oct 10, 2006, 11:14 AM

looks nice pete lol
dan

Petr Chyska

Oct 10, 2006, 11:19 AM

looks nice pete lol
dan

Thanks mate ! :D

Demosthene

Oct 16, 2006, 02:23 AM

Hello,

i can't download these plans.
Could you please be so kind and control the possibility of downloading these documents ?

Regards

Demosthene :)

Thanks to Didier to give permission for publishing and Prop-er for his Rhino work to digitalise the plans for this GREAT F3P plane!!!

This plane is designed and flown by Didier in the Dutch and German F3P championships earlier this year.

VERY neutral flying design with almost the same surface area in vertical fuselage and wings, almost no need for rudder in knife edge, great performance in rolling figures.

Recommended AUW is 120-130 grams, best light servo's are the Dymond D47.

Have fun!!!

http://www.rcplans.nl/RC%20foto-album/blingbling/BlingBlingV3_by_Didier_A0.PDF
http://www.rcplans.nl/RC%20foto-album/blingbling/BlingBlingV3_by_Didier_A1_Page1.PDF
http://www.rcplans.nl/RC%20foto-album/blingbling/BlingBlingV3_by_Didier_A1_Page2.PDF
http://www.rcplans.nl/RC%20foto-album/blingbling/BlingBlingV3_by_Didier_A4_tiled.PDF
http://www.rcplans.nl/RC%20foto-album/blingbling/BlingBlingV3_by_Didier_LETTER_tiled.PDF

Edit: Here's a pic of Didier's BBv3:

http://foto.modelbouwforum.nl/albums/userpics/10560/DM_06%20%2816%29.jpg

Prop-er

Oct 20, 2006, 06:39 AM

I've checked the links. They work fine with me. Maybe the server was temp. down. Please try agian.

power

Oct 25, 2006, 09:14 PM

Well , here is mine :) I am waiting on wheels, other than that it is finished. I must say I enjoyed this build very much! This is my first shot at a super light foamie. I am at 123 grams with a TP480 2s pack. I am very pleased to say the least. Now I have to find a place to fly the darn thing :o Here are my numbers as well as some pics. Thanks again for the plans and info guys!

Mike

Custom made cdr motor 12 grams
Berg microstamp
Azarr ant
Dymond 4.7 servos
PH-10
TP 480 2s

AUW (without wheels) 123 grams

matchlessaero

Oct 25, 2006, 10:21 PM

Now thats what I'm talkin about! Great job on the build ;)

Did you harden the holes in the control horns with some CA? I tend to get some 'egging out' of the horn over time if I don't....

Demosthene

Oct 26, 2006, 03:44 AM

Hello,

could you please be so kind and tell me where i can download the BlingBling plans ? the links at
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=566748
are broken :eek:

Regards

Demosthene

Pjotrrr

Oct 26, 2006, 05:15 AM

Works fine over here, just try again, sometimes server is down for a while....

@power: Fine looking BBv3!

power

Oct 26, 2006, 09:21 AM

Now thats what I'm talkin about! Great job on the build ;)

Did you harden the holes in the control horns with some CA? I tend to get some 'egging out' of the horn over time if I don't....

Thanks matchlessaero,and good tip on the horns. I will give it a try. I use the thicker ply for my larger planes and they hold up well. The 1/64 ply is a whole lot thinner. I do see where the CA will help.

a couple of things I will add, I used RC-56 on pretty much everything. If you apply it with a "T" pin and wipe off the excess with a damp cloth, the joint is invisible when dry. Then with RC-56 most the weight of the glue evaporates when drying. I used .250 in Blenderm strips for hinges. I did learn that every little thing counts when trying to stay below 130 grams. :) This is fun stuff!

Mike

Demosthene

Oct 27, 2006, 10:58 AM

Hello Pjotrrr,
i've tried many times without success. Could you please download all the BlingBling plans and send them to me per e-mail. I'll give you my adresse in a private message...

Regards

Demosthene

Works fine over here, just try again, sometimes server is down for a while....

@power: Fine looking BBv3!

rcnxs

Oct 27, 2006, 03:07 PM

Trisquire

Oct 27, 2006, 03:18 PM

I can't imagine you'd lose much strength if it was constructed in pieces like a Shockflyer.

Tom

rcnxs

Oct 27, 2006, 03:22 PM

Actually I think it would be stronger but a tad heavier. It looks like from some of the other pics, someone may have built one using the "shockflyer" type construction method. I just wanted to double check what my eyes were seeing. We don't have an indoor facility so I will probably build with 6mm Depron for outdoor flying.

ChrisBowker

Oct 27, 2006, 04:20 PM

I love the look of this plane but it looks to me like it cut from a large piece of Depron not the smaller sheets we get here in the US. Am I correct that the wing and the horizontal portion of the fuse is one piece?

like we get from where in the us? you can get 24x36 sheets from www.depronusa.com, altho it looks like there temperaly closed :eek:

power

Oct 27, 2006, 04:39 PM

I love the look of this plane but it looks to me like it cut from a large piece of Depron not the smaller sheets we get here in the US. Am I correct that the wing and the horizontal portion of the fuse is one piece?

Yup, one piece. The larger sheets are available in the US. I would think you would be just fine with 6mm splicing here and there.

I personally liked the way everything went together per plans. Less glue joints, less weight and stronger. If you look closely at Didier's plane and mine as well, the outer few inches of wing tips have been spliced. This is due to the sizing of the full sheet Depron. If you layout the plan on the large sheets so the grain goes lengthwise on the wing , the sheets come up a bit short to cover the span.

The design is well thought out, it can be built incredibly light yet rigid. The moments are perfect for component placement in realation to C.G. I was a bit worried about hitting C.G. using a 12 gram motor with a superlight pack. But it came out perfect :)

Oh, here is another option for larger sheets of Depron.

http://www.rcfoam.com/cart.php?target=category&category_id=66

Mike

rcnxs

Oct 27, 2006, 04:54 PM

maybe I should have rephrased my thoughts to be cost effective depron in the US...the shipping costs are very high unless you live in a city where you can just go pick up a couple...not an option for me. I don't compete so few grams or an oz or two want be a big deal for me flying outdoors. Thanks for the replys...you gotta luv the internet forums!

dorjes

Oct 27, 2006, 09:41 PM

I actually wasn't paying enought attention and cut the tail separately and joined it similar to a Shockie tail , using UHU Por . No problems with strength , and I doubt that one glue joint added much weight. I'm thinking the CG could be moved back considerably from the plans , with no ill effects , but my Bling is temporarily Blung following an abrupt encounter with the floor. Darn solid plane in knife edge , as stable as I've flown.

Dorin Luck

Brummeh

Nov 12, 2006, 04:35 AM

My Bling is done..

3mm depron,27g cdrom, 6g servos, 10a esc, no l/g, 2mm wing bracing and a full length fuse stiffener..

125g without a battery....

I've had a quick flight outside with a little wind which seemed pretty good and a few packs of hovering indoors with a 3cell 340. It hovers easy.. :D

Mike

Powerbook

Nov 13, 2006, 01:37 PM

Hello,

I try to convert the PDF to DXF (to cut BlingBling on my little CNC cutting tool) but i have some problems with scale after conversion.
No pb with the wingspan, i would need other dimensions.
Could you help me ?

http://www.courche.com/bb3/Size.gif

Thank you.

Powerbook.

lastuaja

Nov 13, 2006, 02:51 PM

The design is well thought out, it can be built incredibly light yet rigid. The moments are perfect for component placement in realation to C.G. I was a bit worried about hitting C.G. using a 12 gram motor with a superlight pack. But it came out perfect :)

Mike
What is your setting for C.G?

ededge2002

Dec 02, 2006, 10:41 AM

im looking at these plans and notice a strange right thrust. is this an oversight or am i missing somthing? i usualy build to have a 0-0 motor set up so this seems strange to me....
ededge2002

power

Dec 02, 2006, 11:54 AM

What is your setting for C.G?

I am flying my Bling at 185 mm back from the nose (center) of the fuse. This is about 6 mm "aft" from the plan C.G. I like the way it flys so I left it. :)

Mike

power

Dec 02, 2006, 12:01 PM

Powerbook

Dec 06, 2006, 01:56 PM

Hi Power,

Thank you !
I cut a BlingBling, flight great with a MicroDan 2003-F3P, it's a dream ;-)

Powerbook.

matchlessaero

Dec 06, 2006, 03:39 PM

im looking at these plans and notice a strange right thrust. is this an oversight or am i missing somthing? i usualy build to have a 0-0 motor set up so this seems strange to me....
ededge2002

Are you kidding or are you serious?.......

ededge2002

Dec 06, 2006, 04:08 PM

Are you kidding or are you serious?.......

im being serious there looks to be a considerable amount of right thrust on the horizontal part of the fuse... it might just be me but it looks like the front of it is not at a 90deg angle.

ededge2002

fish2keel

Dec 06, 2006, 04:10 PM

edge is right look at it closely.

whopper

Dec 06, 2006, 04:15 PM

im being serious there looks to be a considerable amount of right thrust on the horizontal part of the fuse... it might just be me but it looks like the front of it is not at a 90deg angle.

ededge2002

yeeesssssss........it has right thrust. What is so strange about this??

It's probably needed for the correct thrust line in hover, apart from all the usual right thrust reasons, (do we really have to revisit that one...??????)

I'm with Matchless, I thought you were kidding with your question. :rolleyes:

power

Dec 06, 2006, 04:26 PM

Hi Power,

Thank you !
I cut a BlingBling, flight great with a MicroDan 2003-F3P, it's a dream ;-)

Powerbook.

Your welcome :) Glad to hear you got one flying. The plane almost flys itself. I love it!!

ededge2002, hard to believe that you have not seen right thrust in model aircraft before, it is very common. It is to compensate for "P" factor and or motor torque. In a perfect setup, adding throttle and not having to feed in rudder to keep the aircraft in a straight heading is what the designers are after. In pattern, smooth, perfect transitions are desired so the less input from the pilot the better.

Mike

ededge2002

Dec 06, 2006, 05:57 PM

matchlessaero

Dec 06, 2006, 06:07 PM

ok sorry for my stupidness but ive never built right thrust into a foamy lol i guess i just fly it out

Not stupidness, and I did not mean to sound condescending. Please accept my apologies if I did.
However, I've only flown 2 foamy designs ever that did not need right thrust. Everything else that I've ever designed or flown required right thrust to track correctly......

Aio_1

Dec 06, 2006, 07:13 PM

ok sorry for my stupidness but ive never built right thrust into a foamy lol i guess i just fly it out..... i do know the reasons of right thrust (started flying in 1984) but never bothered to apply it to foamys ...... (you know that thing where right thrust is backwards upside down....(grin!)) also i guess different prop/motor combos would need different amounts of thrust angle because of the different P factor.

thanks
ededge2002

"Kit designers try to help by building right thrust into the
engine mount in an attempt to counteract the P-factor. But the
yaw force is to the right when the plane is inverted, so the builtin
right thrust just makes the problem worse, and it would
require a lot of drag-producing left-rudder correction to
overcome it. Understanding the source of these forces and
learning to give the correct control inputs result in lower overall
drag through maneuvers."

(pg 3 paragraph 3)
http://members.aol.com/KMyersEFO/aerobat.pdf

I wouldn't necesarily agree with the P-factor/reversed inverted analysis. Most of the necessity for right thrust is often due to the distribution of fuselage area in the wake of the prop. The airflow in the wake rotates in the same direction as the prop. Since there's typically more side area above the thrustline behind the CG there's typically a net yawing effect to the left. This effect is dependent on the direction of propellor rotation and distribution of fuselage area so thrustline compensation will be equally effective inverted.

Aidan

whopper

Dec 06, 2006, 08:40 PM

Not stupidness, and I did not mean to sound condescending. Please accept my apologies if I did.
However, I've only flown 2 foamy designs ever that did not need right thrust. Everything else that I've ever designed or flown required right thrust to track correctly......

My app's also. I just take it for granted that everything (conventional.... ;) :D ) will need some right thrust to avoid carrying rudder trim (which is a can of worms on its own since this is airspeed dependant not power setting dependant, so not so good for cancelling/compensating for P-factor).

ededge2002

Dec 06, 2006, 11:05 PM

no offence taken guys! thanks for the replies and i will be making some experiments on my own... "thanks" one more variable that im going to have to toy with lol!!

ededge2002

Pjotrrr

Dec 07, 2006, 04:05 AM

There is 2 degrees of righttrust in the plan indeed.
I saw the original Manta instructions last week, for this plane 1,5 degree of righttrust and one degree of downthrust is advised as a starting point...

First time I heard of using downthrust on a F3P plane/flat foamie, it seems to me that could be a problem in inverted flight?

David Kyjovsky

Dec 07, 2006, 04:29 AM

I wouldn't necesarily agree with the P-factor/reversed inverted analysis. Most of the necessity for right thrust is often due to the distribution of fuselage area in the wake of the prop. The airflow in the wake rotates in the same direction as the prop. Since there's typically more side area above the thrustline behind the CG there's typically a net yawing effect to the left. This effect is dependent on the direction of propellor rotation and distribution of fuselage area so thrustline compensation will be equally effective inverted.

Aidan

If you look at the quoted pdf, you can notice many more things not to agree with. There are much more competent materials out there ... like this one (http://home.earthlink.net/~x-plane/FAQ-Theory-PFactor.html)

Aio_1

Dec 07, 2006, 02:12 PM

If you look at the quoted pdf, you can notice many more things not to agree with. There are much more competent materials out there ... like this one (http://home.earthlink.net/~x-plane/FAQ-Theory-PFactor.html)
Yeah that all looks about right to me.

Powerbook

Dec 11, 2006, 03:02 AM

Hello

Idea to easy tune righttrust on BlingBling and MicroDan 2003-F3P :

Fast, easy and light (motormount 1.5g).

Powerbook.
http://www.titaniumhobbies.com

jamiejig

Dec 27, 2006, 05:40 PM

built bling bling fly realy nice but has a lot of knife edege coupling canope in why

Lance

Jan 01, 2007, 05:01 PM

I didn't want to be left out of the BlingBling fun, so I took the plunge and taped together the tiled PDF and got a template cut out. That part takes longer than actually tracing and cutting out the airframes. A few minutes to shoot some paint, and I should be assembling pretty soon. I'm planning on doing the thread type bracing rather than fuss with the carbon rod trusses on the bottom wing. I couldn't resist using just a little carbon, so in the center of the wing I used about a 20" 3mm shocky flat carbon strip. I'm hinging everything with 1/4" wide blenderm (it's easy to just cut a 1/2" peice in half...hinge the top, fold surface over 180* and tape the bottom gap and it's a nice free moving light hinge.
I may use some 040 caron rod along both side of the fuse, just to add a bit of durability, and give the landing gear legs something to tie onto. I hate having the fuse break just behind the wing in the event of a bad mishap, and typically when it does it takes just enough glue & tape to weigh what a few (preventative) small carbon rods & tape would've weighed to begin with.

My plan for gear will be:
2S & 3S kokam 340's & BadDog 360 pack
Eflite Park 250 motor
TB9 esc
3 - futaba S3114 servos with pull/pull on rudder & elevator
Berg 4
Some 050 carbon leg shocky style landing gear & 1gram wheels
I haven't weighed everything up just yet, but I'm hoping around 5.5 oz.

Lance

Lance

Jan 02, 2007, 01:32 AM

Made a bit more progress this evening. Finished airframe, bare but all seams glued with a small fillet of RC56 comes in at 1.8 oz. I guess now I can just put all the electronic gear on the scale and I should know where I stand. I don't think adding the kevlar thread bracing will add more than 1/4oz or so with small tape reinforcment where the thread passes through.

HaBo

Jan 07, 2007, 08:10 AM

Hi!

Have just finished my blingbling, mine came out at ~220g!!

Equipment
Motor: HXT22D28 : with all mounting hardware - 45g
Esc: HXT 10A - 9g
RX: Hitec H5S - ?
Acc: 3s 620mAh - 50g
Servo: 3 HXT/9g
Prop: GWS SF 8x43 - ?

Thrust ~330g

I know this is nothing that is recomended in this thread but will this bird fly?

//Hans

crossup

Jan 07, 2007, 08:43 AM

when ever thrust exceeds weight, its very likely it will fly :D
however, I wonder how the airframe will handle starting out at double weight... its kind of like pulling 2 gees sitting still....
Needless to say your plane is going to be much more suited to outdoors at that weight

Aio_1

Jan 07, 2007, 09:44 AM

That should put it around the wing loading of a typical shockflyer I think; so it will fly around the same speed. Should still be fine indoors but maybe not for F3P.

HaBo

Jan 07, 2007, 09:54 AM

Ok, so it's going faster. So keeping the weight down is just for slow performance?

I'm planning to fly this indoor, this will be my first indoor attempt so whish me luck :) I'm kind of new to all of this so if i can just cruise around for a while i'm happy.

//Hans

billwolfe

Jan 08, 2007, 02:41 AM

...

dankodog

Jan 08, 2007, 06:52 AM

That's my paint scheme I did two months ago on my Bling Bling.
I tested it in order to fly with it in the F3P Spanish Championship and compared it with my other current F3P plane, and Aito V2.
Finally I used the Aito and got the 3rd place on the B table. On my opinion the biplanes fly better in indoor :D .

Lance

Jan 12, 2007, 12:19 AM

Here's two more pics of my Blings. These are a few days old, I'll have to follow up with another pic or two now that they're bot finished & flying.

Lance

BigBreeze

Jan 14, 2007, 08:02 PM

Well, I just flew my first BBV3 at an indoor meet today, and I must say I was really really impressed with it. Flew nice and slow, easy to hover, solid harriers (upright were okay and inverted were amazing), slow in the down lines with no aerodynamic devices needed to slow it down, hands-off level inverted, just some coupling to the gear in knife edge that needs to be mixed out. However, I had my CG at the extreme rear of the range, which is probably most of the issue.

Overall, a great indoor plane. I'll be building another. This one is 5.2 ounces with the following equipment, but the next one I'm going to change a few components for some lighter ones, and try to get it sub-5.0 ounces.

Here's the line-up:
Axi 2204-54 (will try Axi 2203 or E-Flite 250 next)
GWS Pico BB
CC10
Berg Microstamp 4L
2S 350 TP Prolites
8x3.8 prop
1mm carbon trussing on wings, 2mm carbon LG, 1.5 mm pushrods

There are alot of easy weight-saving measures I could take to lighten it up (carbon tubes instead of rods, AXI 2203, Dymond 4.7g servos, etc) but this plane still flies great as is, so any lightening I do from here is just icing on the cake!

MICKEL

Jan 14, 2007, 11:31 PM

I finished mine too. It ended up at 120g auw. Maidened yesterday, and WOW! Awesome plane. The lightest I've ever built/flown. Tucks to the canopy during KE, but that could be my aileron links. Power is amazing. I used pull-pull for elevator and rudder. 1mm cf for wing and tail brace. Oh yeah, the setup is textbook, IMO:

250 (lightened) with a 8040hd
Phx 10 (lightened)
(3) D 47s
Berg 4 (no stickers)
Bad Dogs 2s 360

I used cell foam 88 as depron is hard to get immediately.
Painted with Krylon H2O. (poorly)

fw-190

Jan 28, 2007, 09:26 AM

I finished mine as well, Came out to 142 grams with the E-flite 250. After some tinkering with CG, finally got it flying nicely, it flies awesome, this is my first indoor foamy and firt time flew indoor yesterday. Excellent plane and easy to build.

Did a lousy job on the paint, but thought I'd post pic any ways.