Does a Raptor 60 electric conversion kit exist?!

[scary]

gday

ive been hunting the internet for a few days and i cant find anything in regards to converting the raptor 60 to electric.
various threads on raptor 50 to electric but nothing regarding the 60.

this is a bit of an emergency as i need it by the end of the year for AP work.
please help asap!

or does anyone wana swap a raptor 60 with os61 for a similar electric :rolleyes:

cheers

[RC Man]

I have been looking for a Raptor 60/90 conversion kit for two years with no luck. I think a few prototypes have been made but I have not seen any photos of how they do it.

Seams like I always get a lot of negative comments when I bring up the subject. Some say it will not fly well (?) and some say it will be too heavy. With all the new motors and batteries I believe it can be done. This winter I am going to see if I can adapt the tppacks.com Raptor 50 mount to my old Raptor 60 that I very seldom fly anymore – very messy.

Does anyone have any Raptor 60/90 conversion photos :confused:



:cool: RC

[gruntdog]

I have looked as well and have never seen one , I have not been up close to a 60 or 90 , but after flying my stretch 30 , I am interested in a 60 or 90.

is it a similar layout in the mast area to allow for some brackets to be fabed for
both servos and motor mount.

An emoli battery setup is what I would be shootong for

I have been watching the prices on the 60's and 90's and expect in the fall
will be a better time to buy as guys sell off for the winter build for next season for
those of us that have seasons to deal with that restrict flying activities.

anyway I will keep looking

[RC Man]

I don’t think that a Raptor 60/90 conversion will ever make a top performing extreme 3D helicopter because of the weight but they would make excellent sport flying and 3D helicopter. I do think that there is a market for a conversion kit.

Probably one of the most frequently asked questions I get is “do you also have a Raptor 90 EP?”

[scary]

i hope Gary Goodrum doesnt mind me quoting him...

'....R60 is a lot heavier and an electric conversion
would cause it to weigh even more. With the 50s, we can get plenty of power
and can simply extend the boom and belt, and use the same 680 blades, so
there's no need to have to go to a 60-90 size because it just adds even more
weight. ..... For power, I would recommend either a Hacker A50-12S or an Actro 32-4, with a CC Phx HV 85 controller and a 12s-5000 FlightPower Evo 20 "NF"
configuration (two 6s-5000 packs in series...).'

my r60 is in very good condition which is why i would like to do the conversion.
as stated, time is on the essence and i dont want to start hacking up my r60 to find that i dont have the time or resources to complete it. also, this is a simple aerial photographic/video unit and 3D is not needed at all.

what to do, what to do.............

perhaps i should get the xeroG kit and build that up? but then i need a raptor 50.... argh!!!!!!

[Helioaus]

Hello, I have build one and it flies well. I have converted my Raptor90 to electric with MD500 fuselarge.

Gunter
:p

[scary]

thanks for our chat on the phone Gunter - very helpful!
expect some information from Heliaus soon guys, he is going to let us in on the secret specs ;-)

[ozace]

This sounds very interesting , looking forward to seeing how the motor is mounted

[RC Man]

Hello, I have build one and it flies well. I have converted my Raptor90 to electric with MD500 fuselarge.

Gunter
:p


Could you post some photos – Please?



:cool: RC

[Albig]

You should be able to make a simple plate that mounts to the fan shroud just like the one I designed for TPPacks.com for converting plastic Glow Raptors to electric. You can use on of Gary's pinon adaptors and what ever upper bearing you need is surely available.

If you use the right power system you'll come in lighter than the Glow version and easily out perform it.

When I did this Hirobo EVO 90 it came in at 11lbs and flew great. Something similar on the R90 should be a piece of cake. ;)

[RC Man]

Al, from your experience what are some good choices for motors given the limited gearing available with the Raptor 60/90?

[Albig]

You'll need a larger motor at least 400Gs with a KV between 500 - 550 and the only that I personally can vouch for is the Actro 32-3 heli that's pictured in that EVO.

It will give you a max HS over a little over 2000 RPM on 10s at 9.5 to 1 and will make a BIG GRIN appear on your face the first time you punch it.

I'm hoping that the ORKs with improved rotors will be available soon as really the 1915 1.5Y should be another good choice for about half the price.

I'm running the 1915 1Y now on 10s at 11.9 to 1 and it's pretty awesome!

[RC Man]

The Neu Motors 1915/1.5Y is probably the one that I will try. As I recall Steve Neu said they should be available about now.


RC

[scary]

okay... so some advice on equipment is now required... dont forget that this is a dedicated AP vehicle.

Actro 32-3 USD$319.95
CC Phx HV 85 controller USD$179.00 (this has ESC?) (im an electric newbie)
12s-5000 FlightPower Evo 20 "NF" configuration (two 6s-5000 packs in series...).
and fabricate a kit like this....http://www.tppacks.com/documents/Raptor%20Electric%20Conversion%20Kit%20Installatio n%20Instructions-Hacker.pdf

what am i missing? any suggestions on equipment? in particluar, the parts needed, and the parts (eg bearings?) to be upgraded or replaced on the raptor.

cheers

[RC Man]

Last night I took a look at my old Raptor 60 and it looks like I can adapt the tppacks.com Raptor 50 kit to work. I have a kit in my Raptor 50 that I will remove tonight and see what it takes to put it in the 60.

Looks like I can use the Raptor 30 9t pinion is I change the pinion gearing from a 10x19x5 to a 8x19x5. With a 95t main gear my existing Neu 1912/1.5Y should fly it with a 10s or 11s LiPo. This is not going to be a hot 3D setup but may be good for AP work and sport flying.

I will take a week or so to get some parts but I will post some photos if I decide to do it.


RC

[Albig]

okay... so some advice on equipment is now required... dont forget that this is a dedicated AP vehicle.

Actro 32-3 USD$319.95
CC Phx HV 85 controller USD$179.00 (this has ESC?) (im an electric newbie)
12s-5000 FlightPower Evo 20 "NF" configuration (two 6s-5000 packs in series...).
and fabricate a kit like this....http://www.tppacks.com/documents/Raptor%20Electric%20Conversion%20Kit%20Installatio n%20Instructions-Hacker.pdf

what am i missing? any suggestions on equipment? in particluar, the parts needed, and the parts (eg bearings?) to be upgraded or replaced on the raptor.

cheers

You'll have to cut the battery packs back to a 10s setup. There is no way you can gear it for 12S. 10S FPs will be more than adequate.

Where you asked about the "ESC" believe you meant BEC? If so the HV 85 doesn't have a BEC and you'll need to use an RX pack or a UBEC.

RC, If you can't clamp the mount in like the TPPacks adaptor you can bolt it down to shroud.

That's how the EVO's mount above is attached.

[scary]

okay, so the HV 85 is the speed controller for the motor. If it doesnt have the BEC, then my existing RX PCM 9 channel will be compatible with the electric system? My TX is a JR 8130XP - should be fine?

and once the motor, HV 85 and batterys are installed, there really isnt anything else to do? just setting the HV 85 to match a desired haedspeed of about 2000rpm?

cheers

[Nick J]

Headspeed should be around 1900, 2000 is a little much.

[scary]

okay, next question... :)
how long should i expect this thing to be in the air for?
with the Actro 32-3 and a 10s 5000mA FP, should i get around 15mins normal flight time?
the longer the flight time the better (AP vehicle)

hows the raptor 50 conversion kit fitting RC Man? :)

[RC Man]

First a word about headspeed: I have been flying my Raptor 60 with an OS70 engine and 9.5:1 gearing. It does great 3D at 1850 headspeed. I don’t plan on making a craze 3D helicopter (I have my XeroG for that) so I am targeting about 1850 and slightly weight than the nitro version. With the OS70 it weighed an even 11 lb without fuel. This is a stock Raptor 60 with a metal frame. To same weight you could upgrade to carbon. There are lots of carbon parts available for this helicopter but they are all somewhat expensive.

For AP work you want a slower headspeed which will be more efficient. I would think that somewhere in the 1600-1700 area would be more than enough. My glow version hovers at 1475 and is very smooth and stable so you see you don’t really need a lot of headspeed with a larger helicopter.

I disassembled my Raptor 60 and what a mess! It was so messy on the inside of the frame that I decided to completely disassemble and clean everything.

The tppacks.com mount will work but you will have to file it down about 1 mm to get it to fit. Once you get it aligned drill some holes and bolt it to the fan shroud. The 9t Raptor 30/50 pinion will work if you change the pinion bearing. I have ordered a couple of bearings and will post some photos when I get them installed. There are a couple of ways to do it so I ordered a couple of different bearings to se what will work the best.

The stock 10t Raptor 60/90 pinion will NOT fit the tppacks adapter as the threads are a different size. Since I am using Neu motor I want a 9t pinion anyway. My first attempt will be with a Neu 1912/1.5Y, 10s LiPo, and 95/9 gearing – I have all the parts for this on hand so that’s why I chose this to start with. If that works out I will then upgrade to a Neu 1915/1.5Y and a 12s LiPo. You can easily change the gears for more headspeed as TT makes 91, 93, 94, and 95t main gears.

I should be able to start putting it together sometime next week.


:cool: RC

[scary]

wikked thanx RC Man. i have also begun to pull apart my R60 and in the process, i have taken picture and weighed everything, just to compare it to the electric conversion weight.

i have a stock 10t Raptor 60 pinion and a 94t main gear. thats a bugger, i guess i will have to get an adapter fabricated to connect the actro shaft to the 10t pinion, as well as a plate to mount the motor to inside the fan shroud.

thanx for the headspeed tip RC, are there any calculators available to determine head speed based on the gearings i have?

cheers
steve

[RC Man]

If you use the Actro 32-3, 10s LiPo with 94/10 gearing I estimate that you will have about 2050-2100 which is way to high. You could govern it down but that will make the motor run very hot. I would definitely advise against this setup for AP – it would be ok for 3D but not AP.

If you adapt a 9t pinion a 94/9 gearing will give 1850, which is still fairly high. With 95/9 gearing and the governor set to the 1700-1800 range you should have a real nice AP helicopter.


:cool: RC

[scary]

cheers again RC Man! can you please explain the calculations that you used to come up with that figure so i dont have to hassle you? :)

i have a futaba gv-1 now with my glow heli so can this be used with the electric conversion? or is that what the CC Phx HV 85 controller is for?

so now to find that 9t pinion, they are standard on raptor 30's yeh?

[RC Man]

The CC Phx HV 85 has a built in governor, which works very well.

The 9t pinion is TT number PV0367.

If you run KC’s spreadsheet with an 11 lb helicopter in the 70-100 watts/lb range you will get some good numbers.

If you want to do your own calculations the following equations may be helpful. They are for the motor only so you will have to add losses for the ESC, wiring, gears, and battery IR. KC also includes equations with the spreadsheet.

I = motor input current
Io = motor current with no load
Kt = 1355/Kt

RPM = Kv * (V - (Rm * I))
Power in(Pi) = V * I
Power out(Po) = -(I - Io) * (Vi - (Rm * I))
Efficiency = Po / Pi
Torque = (Kt * I) - (Kt * Io)
Motor Heating = Pi - Po
Magnet heating = Io * V

Horse Power = 1HP = 550 Ft-lb/sec = 746W

Current for Max Efficiency Iemax = sqrt(V * Io) / Rm))



:cool: RC

[RC Man]

Hear are a couple of photos of the modified tppacks kit. The plate has to be filed down very slightly on the ling ends to fit the frames. Be sure and file it the same on both ends so that the motor will be centered in the frame. I also drilled some mounting holes in the corners.

The 9t pinion is mounted with a spacer (about 4-5mm) so it will line up with the main gear and motor shaft properly.


Update:

After doing the final instillation I discovered that the spacer is not really required – see post #29.

RC


More photos when I get the new pinion bearing next week.


RC

[RC Man]

I got the motor mounted on the fan duct. I found that the 1912 is a perfect fit through the fan hole on the Raptor 60 fan duct (I think that the Raptor 90 has a larger hole). I found that the 9t pinion and a 94t main gear lined up perfectly with no cutting of the fan hole required. You can easily use a 93t or 95t main gear by taking some material off the fan hole.

After feting it aligned I put a dab of glue on the mount to hold it in place. I then removed the fan duct from the frame and drilled the holes. Since the mounting plate is a fight fit between the frames the screws need only hold it in place and don’t really take any of the torque load. I used sheet metal screws to mount the place to the fan duct.

That tppacks.com mount really makes for a slick instillation with built in cooling holes that line up perfectly with the holes in the Neu ORK motors.

[RC Man]

I removed some material from the front of the fan duct to make way for battery mounting and allow airflow to the motor. There is a nice space to install an electric fan if additional cooling is required. Prolonged hovering (as required for AP) tends to heat up motors. For 3D helicopters this is usually not required as the motor already has an internal fan.

I see that the Neu 1915 is now available. If this works out well I will probably upgrade to the larger motor and 12s battery later this year.



:cool: RC

[RC Man]

This is the modified clutch bearing block. A 8x19x6F flanged bearing turned out to be the best solution. A little work with a Dermal sanding drum and the bearing goes in the end of the block. The 9t pinion is a bit shorter than the Raptor 60 pinion so a flanged bearing on the bottom of the bearing block does the trick.

[RC Man]

This photo shows the final instillation. After completing the instillation I see that I did not need the spacer between the pinion and the coupler. There is plenty of room to clear the gear and with the instillation as shown the motor shaft is plenty long. Don’t forget to grind a flat spot on the motor shaft so the coupler won’t slip.

The rest of the conversion is just like any other helicopter. I need to figure out where the battery needs to be mounted to make the cg co come out correctly. Hopefully I will be able to get it flying this weekend.

:cool: RC

[gruntdog]

nice work on that RcMan!!

keeping my eyes open for a 60 or 90 w/o motor for conversion

[RC Man]

nice work on that RcMan!!

keeping my eyes open for a 60 or 90 w/o motor for conversion



Sometimes you can purchase one with an engine and muffler then sell the parts you don’t need and get a cheaper helicopter that way. You have lots of parts that you can sell on ebay (engine, muffler, fuel tank, header tank, motor mount, remote glow cable, …)


:cool: RC

[scary]

wow! thanks RC Man!

i am awaiting (hopefully) some gear from the US for the conversion.... Axi 4130/16
and a Castle Creations HV 85.

looks like the ttpacks is the way to go! ill order one in then :)

cheers

[ozace]

not many have had luck with the Axi motors in helis, just keep it in mind.

[scary]

oh....

can you please elaborate? even for simple AP work?

[ozace]

The Axi's usuall run hot , very hot in heli apps. There were cases of magnets falling out quite a while back and ever since then most stear clear. You hardly see or hear about anyone using an Axi in helis these days.

[scary]

after doing some research, it seems that the Axi motors need to be kept cooler than 130°C to avoid damage.i may have to direct some of the propellor air over the engine. i cant see a top mounted engine being any good for the centre of gravity... ill have to see when i have the engine in my little hands... or even build a little protoyype of the motor and see where it could fit.

cheers

[RC Man]

I got it flying yesterday and it really flies beautifully. It is much smoother than my Raptor 50 – just the thing for AP or someone who wants a real easy to fly helicopter – incredibly smooth. The power system I have is only good for 1750-1800 headspeed so it is not a wild 3D helicopter but very nice for come relaxing sport flying.

I was a little concerned that this motor would run hot but it stayed about 140F with an air temperature of 72F. This is cool for Neu motors, as they are good to 200F. I was using an old TP 10s2p 4200 pack that had several hundred flights on it.

I did one flight at 1550-1600 headspeed mostly hovering and flight to simulate AP work. At a weight of 11.6 lb it draws about 18 amps. This is with Mavrikk 680mm CF blades and stock tail blades. With the 10s LiPo that comes out 62.8 watts per pound. I would say that if you use 65 watts per pound you would get a very good estimate of the flight time for an AP application. Be aware that the power requirement goes up rapidly with headspeed so if you run higher headspeed you flight time will go down a lot.

I got a PM from Steve Neu indicating that the helicopter version of the big ORK (1915 with fan and new design of rotor to shaft attachment) would ship from the factory late this week so they should be in stores in a week or two. This should be the ultimate power for those who want a large 3D helicopter.

All in all this project turned out better than I expected :)



:cool: RC

[gruntdog]

Real nice work in short order RCMan.

[RC Man]

Hear are some photos of the complete helicopter. I used two TP4200 5s2p packs, one in front under the radio tray and the other in the fuel tank area. This helicopter has lots of room for batteries. The Phoenix HV85 ESC is also in the tank area. I use a UBEC for radio power.

In this configuration it is slightly lighter than with the OS70 and an empty tank of fuel.

Does anyone know the conversion from fuel volume to weight?


:cool: RC

[Albig]

A gallon of alcohol weighs about 6.6 lbs and I guess the tank on that raptor is about a quart so it should hold about 1.6 lbs of fuel. Oil being about 20% by volume should weigh the same or a little less per unit but I really don't know what the weight of Klotz is :confused:

Al

[RC Man]

A gallon of alcohol weighs about 6.6 lbs and I guess the tank on that raptor is about a quart so it should hold about 1.6 lbs of fuel. Oil being about 20% by volume should weigh the same or a little less per unit but I really don't know what the weight of Klotz is :confused:

Al

Thanks,

It sounds like I am way lighter than a nitro raptor with a full tank of fuel.

With some lightweight upgrades and a little larger propulsion system the Raptor 60/90 will definitely fly better than the nitro version. I am really amazed that there aren’t more Raptor 60/90 EP’s flying. It’s really a very easy and low cost conversion.


:cool: RC

[ozace]

Job well done RC, the speed in which you moved is impressive.

[scary]

dam straight! my raptor 60 is sitting on top of my bench waiting for paypal to send me its stupid location letter and then i can finally get my parts sent over from the states.

well done RC Man, that thing is hot!

[gruntdog]

I am suprised that this has not been done before , especially since the adapters
fit so easily.

I have sold my swift to satisfy the wife so that I can add a 60 or 90 to the fleet,
too many heli's in the shop and I get the old , "you can't fly them all" routine


kudos again to RCMan and his quick build

MT

[RC Man]

For those who are interested in a wider choice of pinion gears there is an alternate conversion method that you may be interested in. Use a 5mm shaft and couple then you can use standard 5mm mod 1 pinion gears. Logo, TT, Swift and others use these pinions and there are available down to 8t.

Boca has 5x15x5mm and 5x19x6mm bearings that can be fitted to the bearing block so you can use a 5mm pinion shaft. The Raptor bearing block will have to be modified slightly for the wider 5x19x6 bearing since the bottom bearing grove is only 5mm wide. A few seconds with a dermal and it will drop right in.

SDP-SI.com has 5mm shafts and couplers. They have 5mm to 5mm and 5mm to 6mm shaft couplers so you can use outrunners with 6mm shafts. If you have problems finding these parts I will look up the link. This is the method that is used on the XeroG 600EP when mounting a motor underneath without The Box and works very well.



:cool: RC

[RC Man]

I thought you all might like these photos I took after flying early this morning. :) The nice thing about electric’s is you can carry them with you all the time and there are always ready to fly without making a mess.


:cool: RC

[PJRono]

So what did it end up weighing w/wo the battery?

[RC Man]

So what did it end up weighing w/wo the battery?

Last time I weighed it was RTF without battery or canopy. The weight was about 3850g.

With my 10s pack and plastic canopy it is probably in the 10.5 to 11 lb range. With some carbon upgrades I could probably loose another half a pound or more. I fiberglass canopy would also be nice. If you don’t mind shorter flights you could use come of the new smaller high C batteries and save more weight. I get 9 minutes with a TP4200 10s pack but that’s easy flying with a fairly low (1750) headspeed. I will probably upgrade to TP extreme series batteries and a Neu 1915 so that will bring the weight back up a little but should deliver more power than a 90 nitro engine.

The bottom line is that it’s about the same weight than a Raptor 60 nitro with NO FUEL (11 lb). Most of the Raptor 90’s that I have seen weighed came out at 12 lb with no fuel.


:cool: RC

[RC Man]

I was looking to get another conversion kit but I see that tppacks.com is out of stock. Has anyone contacted Gary Goodrum to see if he is doing to make any more kits?

.

[scary]

why bother with the kit?
ive discovered a simple aluminium 'X' cross beam will do the trick, just like in the mounting kit for the AXI motors.
the ends of the X get drilled into the plastic shroud and then you can drill a couple of bolt holes in the X to tie the motor to.

i was wondering if someone can help me with my maths in regards to the battery for my AXI 4130/16....
Voltage range 16-24 cells
RPM per Volt 390 RPM/V
Max. Efficiency 88%
Max. Efficiency Current 18-40 A (>84%)
Max. loading 60 A / 30 s
No load Current/10V 1,8 A
Internal resistance 63 mohm
Dimensions 49,6x65,5 mm
Shaft Diameter 6 mm
Weight 409 g
Recommended model weight 3000 - 6000 g

i believe i need ~700W (including the 88% efficieny of the motor) to fly the heli fully loaded at ~12lbs or ~6kgs.
the most efficient current for the motor could be ~30A.
so;
watts = amps * volts
700 = 30 * V
V = 23

so, finding a battery with 30A and ~ 23 or 22.2V, i would need perhaps 2 of:

Model FPEVO50003S2P
mAh 5000
Volt 11.1V
Weight 427g
Const 100A
Max 150A

to get my 22.2V, i need two of these puppies?

im sorry to sound so stupid but why does my headspeed get affected by any of this, in relation to gearing? i have a 94t main gear and a 10t pinion.
the pinion calculator is saying i need an 18t pinion, using my 94t main gear which doesnt seem right at all :(

sorry for the long post, i am tyring!

[PJRono]

That problably is right cause 25.2V(2 fully charged 3S) x 390Kv= 9828rpm on the motor. 9828rpm / 9.4 gearing = 1045rpm headspeed. With the 18 tooth it would be 9828rpm / 5.2 gearing = 1890rpm headspeed. These are theoretical numbers. in reality they would be lower. On 10S things would be better 42V x 390Kv = 16380 motor rpm. Then 16380rpm / 9.4 gearing = 1742rpm headspeed. This might actually get it in the air for a while, although the headspeed would still be low. But this should be in another thread.

[RC Man]

Sorry to say but that combo is not going to be satisfactory.

That motor is a very poor choice and it probably won’t fly a Raptor 60. The way I compute it with 94/10 gearing if you use a 12s LiPo you will get about 1800 headspeed but the motor will get very hot and probably burn out very quickly.

There are lots of choices that will work well but that’s not one of them.

We will you choose a power system if you give us your constraints.


RC

[scary]

really? that motor is no good?? :(
well, as stated earlier, this raptor 60 is going to be a dedicated AP vehicle, so a headpseed of 1500rpm should be good. my guesstimated final weight would be around 6kgs or 12lbs (being a bit on the heavy side, probably more like 5.5kg or 11lbs).
i currently have a 94t main gear and 10t pinion.
combinations would be greatly appreciated!
i am currently looking at buying some gear off some ppl on here...

the 2* 3s2p 5000mah thunder powers and the axi 4130/16 and HV 85.

cheers again for everyones help

[gruntdog]

In my reading when doing the raptor 30-50 conversion alot of people asked about the
Axi motors and the general response was that they do meet the rpm needs but the load of swinging the blades was too much for them ,,, most have gone to makes such
as Neumotors,Kontronik,Hacker,etc. These motors all have the torque/rpm to meet the needs of spinning up the blades and keeping them there under load.

This is no airplane propeller we are trying to spin at 1800 -2000 rpm

I use both Kontronik Tango and Neumotor 1910 and 1912 motors in the raptor

From my reading I would also look to start with an 8 cell -10 cell setup

I use the emoli packs to keep the cost down a bit

Tppacks has some good info in thier combo write-ups that will
give you some idea what it takes to get a 30-50 off the ground so take that
and apply to the 60-90

there are not as many choices for heli power plants when you get up in this size of model

[scary]

okay how about this setup straight from tppacks....

Hacker A50-16S Outrunner (with fan)
AP Rigs
Extreme Torque 14-Pole Brushless Motor - with Fan
This motor is a great motor to use in a Raptor 50-based Aerial Photography (AP) rig, using the stock 85T/10T gearset and a 10s pack in the 4200-5000 mAh range, or using the R30's 86T/9T combo and a 12s pack in the 3700-4200 mAh range.

Note: This motor requires the use of a high rpm-compatible controller, such as the Phoenix 85 HV

kV: 380; Io: 2.0A; Rm: 260mOhm; wt: 370 gm; 6mm shaft

so 380 * 37V(10s * 3.7) = 14060
and using my existing main gear of 94t and 10t pinion, my gear ratio is 9.4.

Hence, 14060 / 9.4 = 1495 head speed... i was looking for a 1500rpm HS :)

this right>?

[gruntdog]

Gary and the guys he runs with are very knowledgable on what will an will not work so to follow their lead is not a bad thing,

my set-up will be

hacker master 77-0-heli
tango 45-08
10-12 s emoli pack
r30 gear set (this may change)
hs625/hs925 servos
bec 6v supplied by 3s1320 lipo
gy240

I have had good success with the 50 and look forward to a 90 , both will be rigged to carry a AP undercarriage assembly

[RC Man]

The A50-16s should work out for AP work ok.

After doing some calculations with a 10s LiPo I see that you will need to get an 11t pinion to get an in-flight headspeed of about 1550-1600. You will have to make an adapter for the Raptor 90 11t pinion to the 6mm motor shaft.

A better solution would be to increase the voltage a bit and keep the 94/10 gears. An 11s LiPo would be just right (something like a 5s and a 6s LiPo in the 3700-4600 range depending on the flight time you want). The Castle Creations Phoenix 85HV will handle you to 12s LiPo voltage so that’s a good choice. Just charge the two packs separately and you will have a real good setup. This would be my recommendation.


RC

[RC Man]

Gary and the guys he runs with are very knowledgable on what will an will not work so to follow their lead is not a bad thing,

my set-up will be

hacker master 77-0-heli
tango 45-08
10-12 s emoli pack
r30 gear set (this may change)
hs625/hs925 servos
bec 6v supplied by 3s1320 lipo
gy240

I have had good success with the 50 and look forward to a 90 , both will be rigged to carry a AP undercarriage assembly



The Tango 45-08 Kv may be high for a big helicopter like a Raptor 60/90. You could govern it down but the risk of overheating may go up. Let us know how it works out.


:cool: RC

[gruntdog]

I have the tango so it will be my first choice

# of cell will be a factor as well


I will post my results, when I get that far

[RC Man]

I see that this thread has a very large number of views. Is anyone else thinking of doing a conversion?

[thewz]

No....we just like to see really big heli's go electric.... :D

I'm converting my R50 over now....

Hacker A50-12S, CC45HV, and TP mount kit, 10s emoli at first since I just want to hover around to get used to it.

I'm leaving it mCCPM for now.

If I make a 4s and a 6s pack can I just add wires and a connector to a single cell and add it in series to make a 11s?

[Albig]

If I make a 4s and a 6s pack can I just add wires and a connector to a single cell and add it in series to make a 11s?

I think the batteries in your calculator need to be recharged.

4 + 6 = 10 :rolleyes:

Yes you can series separate packs.

Al

[RC Man]

I think the batteries in your calculator need to be recharged.

4 + 6 = 10 :rolleyes:

Yes you can series separate packs.

Al


:eek: LOL :eek:

[thewz]

I think the batteries in your calculator need to be recharged.

4 + 6 = 10 :rolleyes:

Yes you can series separate packs.

Al

...no I have a 4s and a 6s and wanted to know if I could add 1 cell in series to make it 11s. I would otherwise have to break the 4s and make it a 5s... :p

[thewz]

I posted a question about my new emoli packs I just got.... :confused:

[scary]

yes, my A50-16s is on its way :)

[RC Man]

Does anyone have a recommendation for the collective pitch servo on a Raptor 60/90? I have S9252 on the cyclic and 5v radio power. I am using a S9252 but would like to upgrade to something with more torque and about the same speed for some hard 3D flying.

BTW I just got in a flight today with the new TT Red Paddles and they really liven up the cyclic response. I was flying V-Paddles, which everyone told me were good but I can tell you that the TT Red paddles do give you a faster cyclic rate.


:cool: RC

[scary]

well, red cars are supposed to go faster so it would make sense :P

[RC Man]

well, red cars are supposed to go faster so it would make sense :P


;) LOL :D


:cool:

[scary]

well, its the costs are getting a little on the high side...

with a 11s LiPo pack 3700mAh, it will set me back AUS$647 (or US$886) which was higher than i expected. also the weight of the batteries will be just over 1kg (2lbs)
if i were to chose a different gear ratio, will i be able to reduce the batteries to a 10s LiPo? also, in the technical specs which came with the Hacker A50-16s motor, it mentions to use 5-7 LiPo batteries. is this a necessity or is this just a recommendation? :) the last thing i want to be doing is destroying a brand new motor.

ehehe

[sundayflier]

If you guys get the chance you might visit fastelectics.com. Alot of motor and battery info there. I have E-mailed their representative on any future kits for the Raptor 60 and 90. I will post any good information that comes back.

[scary]

cheers

If you guys get the chance you might visit fastelectics.com. Alot of motor and battery info there. I have E-mailed their representative on any future kits for the Raptor 60 and 90. I will post any good information that comes back.

[RC Man]

well, its the costs are getting a little on the high side...

with a 11s LiPo pack 3700mAh, it will set me back AUS$647 (or US$886) which was higher than i expected. also the weight of the batteries will be just over 1kg (2lbs)
if i were to chose a different gear ratio, will i be able to reduce the batteries to a 10s LiPo? also, in the technical specs which came with the Hacker A50-16s motor, it mentions to use 5-7 LiPo batteries. is this a necessity or is this just a recommendation? :) the last thing i want to be doing is destroying a brand new motor.

ehehe

The 5-7 LiPo recommendation is for direct drive propeller applications and does not apply to helicopter applications. I fly a 10s 4200 in my setup and the flight times are fairly short an 11s 3700 is also doing to be short. For AP applications you really don’t have to get an expensive high C battery. You need to shop around for some other LiPo batteries.

I have used Hyperion batteries with good results. They make some 4200 packs that are very reasonably priced (about $449 USD). One think about Hyperion packs is that they are not balanced during production so you need to balance them real good during the first few charges. If you don’t balance them you could easily destroy the pack. For your application you could use two 4s and one 3s pack. If you are like me and only have a charger that goes to 10s just wire it up so you can charge it as one 7s and one 4s pack.

Don’t charge and new pack without a balancer

http://www.b-p-p.com/proddetail.php?prod=j_H4200CL&PHPSESSID=e997f81e78ecc15f1acc60112596eaa7



:cool: RC

[RC Man]

Another great weekend of flying my Raptor 60 EP. It was very windy which grounded all the small helicopters but the big Raptor flew like there was almost no wind. With the new TT red 3D paddles it is very stable in gusty winds and has a higher cyclic rate than a stock Raptor 50 with the green paddled.

The Big Raptor is definitely an excellent windy weather 3D helicopter.


:cool: RC

[trackhappy]

Modelflight have the 60/90 upgrade listed here:

http://www.modelflight.com.au/rc_model_helicopters/thunder_tiger_raptor_60v2_helicopter.htm

Maybe the electric guys can build on this.

[sundayflier]

The conversion kits I have a re for the 50 frame whereas the 60 uses the 90 frame. (no luck here)


Sounds like I'm going to follow in the foot steps of RC MAN. Thanks for the information on your convertion that you did.

[sundayflier]

Question for RC Man? I have a 60tt with an O.S.70 and love it also. However, I'm building a Bell 222 full body for it that I wish to convert to electric. I'm starting form scratch so I would like to get it right the first time. What motor would you go with?

1512/1D 4875 9.88/10.23 2.4 0.002 6.0 $225.00
1512/1.5D 3200 9.88/10.23 2.4 0.0035 3.0 $225.00
1512/2D 2600 9.88/10.23 2.4 0.006 2.3 $225.00
1512/2.5D 2000 9.88/10.23 2.4 $225.00
1512/3D 1700 9.88/10.23 2.4 0.012 1.5 $225.00
1512/1.5Y 1900 9.88/10.23 2.4 0.009 1.8 $225.00
1512/2Y 1400 9.88/10.23 2.4 0.015 1.1 $225.00

1515/1D 4100 12.00/12.70 2.7 0.0025 5.5 $280.00
1515/1.5D 2700 12.00/12.70 2.7 0.004 4.5 $280.00
1515/1Y 2200 12.00/12.70 2.7 0.006 2.5 $280.00
1515/2.5D 1700 12.00/12.70 2.7 0.010 2.25 $280.00
1515/1.5Y 1500 12.00/12.70 2.7 0.011 1.7 $280.00
1515/3D 1360 12.00/12.70 2.7 0.012 1.2 $280.00
1515/2Y 1100 12.00/12.70 2.7 0.019 1.1 $280.00
o with?

[RC Man]

Question for RC Man? I have a 60tt with an O.S.70 and love it also. However, I'm building a Bell 222 full body for it that I wish to convert to electric. I'm starting form scratch so I would like to get it right the first time. What motor would you go with?




Personally I would not go with any of those. The 1500 series is designed for high RPM use and work best in helicopters with a very high gear ratio. The 1900 series is a much better choice with the gearing available for the Big Raptor. They are also lower priced because they don’t have to run at such high rpm.

If you really want to stay with Neu Motors Steve Neu has a new fanned version of the 1915 that should be available any day now. I am planing to upgrade to a 1915/1.5Y and a 12s LiPo this winter. That setup with a 94/9 or 95/9 gearing should be just right for a scale helicopter.

What batteries, gearing and headspeed are you planning and I will see what wind you will need. Probably a 10s, 11s or 12s LiPo will work out the best.



:cool: RC

[sundayflier]

RC Man,

From what little research I have done, the Neu seems a good fit, like you say. The 1915/1.5Y and a 12s LiPo would work great. Then I wonder ( not being experienced) what about a different maker of motors? I would days on the formulas.
What are your thoughts RC Man?

[RC Man]

There are definitely other motors that will work well. You want to make sure you get a helicopter motor with a fan. A motor with a weight of at least 380g or more (most are in the 400-450g range) and a Kv in the 450 to 550 range and 5mm output shaft (6mm will work if you have the correct coupler). I have heard that Hacker has a new 10-pole special helicopter motor but I have not seen them listed anyplace. Gary at tppacks.com has some other motors that are worth a look.

RC

[scary]

ill let you know how the Hacker A50-16s motor goes. just awaiting the cells now.
have a kit ready-made to mount the motor and pinion shaft aswell

[RC Man]

ill let you know how the Hacker A50-16s motor goes. just awaiting the cells now.
have a kit ready-made to mount the motor and pinion shaft aswell

Please post some photos.

RC

[sundayflier]

I will go ahead and wait for the Neu 1915/1.5y with the fan. Seems that I will have to wait for a few parts. Tppacks.com is out of stock also... Thanks again.

[RC Man]

I will go ahead and wait for the Neu 1915/1.5y with the fan. Seems that I will have to wait for a few parts. Tppacks.com is out of stock also... Thanks again.

If you find the 1915 with fan listed please let us all know.

I got a PM from Gary at tppacks.com and he said that the parts for the kits should be in soon.

:cool: RC

[gruntdog]

i just picked up a raptor 60 and should have it next week , I am making my own adapters for the motor mount and pinion , as well as the 120 deg ccpm servo mounts.

motor,esc,servos,bec,rx,emoli's already in hand ,

hope to have it in the air in a couple of weeks if all goes well

I will post my progress when I have some pics of the assemblies.

[rerazor]

Grunt,

What eMoli setup are you planning on using?

[RC Man]

i just picked up a raptor 60 and should have it next week , I am making my own adapters for the motor mount and pinion , as well as the 120 deg ccpm servo mounts.

motor,esc,servos,bec,rx,emoli's already in hand ,

hope to have it in the air in a couple of weeks if all goes well

I will post my progress when I have some pics of the assemblies.

Have you decided on a motor?

Large helicopters put a lot of stress on eCCPM servos. Make sure you come up with some sort of push-pull control system (something like the Raptor E-series should be excellent). I have a XeroG 600EP and it would be a lot better if it had a better push-pull control system.

I hope you take lots of photos.


:cool: RC

[gruntdog]

I had a push pull set-up om the swift and it worked well , there are some parts that may allow me to make it a push pull on the R60, will have to wait and see.

the R30 stretch I have seems to like the eccpm , using hs625mg servos , strong but still fairly quick for a large servo

I am not !!!! a 3d pilot by any means so I will certainly not stress the control system with my putter about flying abilities,,,, at least I don't crash any more ,, yeh !

As far as my emoli set-up I will try a 10 and a 12 in my initial flites , I am going with the emoli's as I have them in quantity and I have found them to work well ,, again my flying skills are limited so I do not over work the power system.

all plans may change when the R60 is on the bench in front of me and I start to size things up. parts I have may or may not work well together , time will tell

I will be using a wattsup meter so I will be able to measure some of the power levels to help determine whether or not I will need some new gear

[RC Man]

I really don’t see that converting a Raptor 60/90 to eCCPM is doing to improve anything. Looks to me a lot of pain for no gain. The nitro guys fly hard 3D all day long so the stock control system has definitely proven itself.

I really love at how smooth my Big Raptor flies and would not want to do any modifications that would possible make it fly worse. If you do make the mod be sure and take lots of photos.


RC

[gruntdog]

I will take that advice into consideration , I am only basing some of these plans on the R30 I have , I needed the servo bay gone to allow for the batteries. I made the assumption I would probably face the same situation with the 60.

I am amazed at the R30, I started with a hornet way back when and keep getting larger , so I am looking forward to the R60 , I may have a R90 boom set for it as well to stretch the tail out.

[RC Man]

Hear is a photo of the battery instillation. As you can see the Raptor 60/90 has plenty of room for batteries and does not have the same balance problem as the 50. I have one 5s 4200 pack in the front and one in the tank area. The servo frame makes a great battery mount. There is plenty of room for a larger battery is you like.

Also the servo frame has front canopy supports that you don’t want to remove.

I would suggest that you make your first instillation similar to this and get it into the air. Than you can experiment with making improvements if you like.

As for me I will add upgrade to carbon frame, Neu 1915, 12s LiPo (probably a new TP4900). That should make a 3D helicopter with more power than a Nitro 90 helicopter.



:cool: RC

[RC Man]

Another thing that I like about the Big Raptor is that all the electronics (including the gyro) are under the canopy where they are protected. Just got back from another great Saturday morning of flying. :)


:cool: RC

[gruntdog]

thx for the picture , I can see how the layout is quite different than the 30/50 to get
the balance , I will probably now just mount the motor and go.

raining here , no good

cleaning the shop and putting in new workbench

[andres.c]

RC man your project seem be a great idea -- i am debating if to do a conversion on my new kit r50 or to my tried and tested r90se which lost its nitro motor to heat and age

components so far in the war chest
CC 85 HV
Hacker 50 12L motor
Bec
tp packs motor mount
tp packs servo relocation kit

emoli packs 8 6sp1 packs not build yet
a123 packs 2 10sp1 packs not build yet

can the stock gears in the r90 se be used 91 main 10 pinion
710 mains

oh yeah r90SE RTF 10.5 lbs carbon frame ,carbon boom , carbon supports , no frame stiffners , FRP canopy , airtronics servos 94758 , fromeco arizona 6 volt regulator futaba pcm rx for the r90

[sundayflier]

Although I’m out of the Hacker-based conversions, I do have the Z-Power Z50T-600 motor/conversion kit. This is the best motor for the Raptor conversions that I’ve found. It has about the same torque as the Hacker A50-12S, but it runs a whole lot cooler, primarily due to the huge fan this setup has. The motor case itself is actually the mount, so no other hardware is required. The kit comes with everything you need.



Although the Hackers work great, there have been too many “issues” with the large bearing used on the can housing, and with the motors running too hot. The reason is that in the helicopters, we are running these at a much higher rpm rate, than they do in airplane applications. I’m waiting to see how they address these issues before I order any more of the A50s.



I’m actually so happy with the Z50T motor that I have decided to carry the whole line of Z-Power motors. J



Gary Goodrum

TPpacks.com

[sundayflier]

For RC Man, or anyone else interested, I have found two Neu 1915/1.5y with fan. Price is $222.00. Will be purchasing ASAP. I'll pass on the info. after I recieve confirmation.

[PJRono]

RCMan- Nice Job on the E-R60!

Gary- So after all the dicussion on the A50 - now you think there's a bearing problem after shooting me down and swearing that it couldn't happen? I appreciate all your hardwork with the E-raps so a guy like me can have one. Since I have replaced the large bearing with one from Gopher with a 24000rpm limit I haven't had any more problems.

[RC Man]

RC man your project seem be a great idea -- i am debating if to do a conversion on my new kit r50 or to my tried and tested r90se which lost its nitro motor to heat and age


can the stock gears in the r90 se be used 91 main 10 pinion
710 mains





According to my calculations with a Hacker A50-12L and a 12s LiPo you will get about 1800 headspeed with 91/11 gearing and over 1900 with 93/12 gearing. That depends on the battery you select and the blade efficiency. The power will be about the same as a Neu 1915/1.5Y but it will run slightly hotter and be slightly less efficient – no big deal – the A50-15L looks like it should do an excellent job of flying a Raptor 90.

Are you setting it up for 3D, sport flying, or AP?


:cool: RC

[sundayflier]

I have taken my 60tt apart and see that the present gears are pinion 10 and ring 93. I was planning to go with the 9 pinion and a 94 ring as I believe you did (With a Neu 1915/1.5y with fan and a 12's battery support). However, my issue is weight. The full body Bell 222 weights in at 3.5 pounds (with retracks and 3 servo's). This kit also calls for a 90tt boom and 710 blades. The question, what's your opinion on this gear ratio with all this weight? I'm only looking to do realistic flying with this Fat Bird... I welcome any help besides the option of giving it up. :)

[RC Man]

A 9t pinion and a 94 will give about 1800-1850 headspeed and probably draw a lot of power swinging 710mm blades. With an 11s LiPo you get about 1700 headspeed – much better for a scale helicopter.

If you look back you will see that I described an alternate conversion using a standard 5mm motor pinion and a 5mm shaft. It would be a bit more work but you could use a 8t (old LOGO) pinion and a 91t main gear that will give about 1700 headspeed with a 12s battery. That may require some work in the frame upper bearing slots to get it to line up.

How much flight time do you need to get?


RC