Ballistic Parachute

[stevievb]

Has anybody ever thought of or seen a very small ballistic parachute for rc aircraft??

[Thomas B]

They used to advertise one in the model magazines years back. It has been done over and over on certain small and even larger UAVs.

Certainly doable, but just how practical is it really?

Adds SIGNIFICANT weight to a model, to be dragged around forever in case of an emergency. Think 10-20 percent for the average R/C model. Then you have the issues of dealing with a pyro device on an R/C model and that has a lot of issues of its very own.

If your radio quits and the airborne unit is not fail safe, the parachute cannot be deployed,anyway. If you radio is failsafe, then it has a better chance of working.

If you are not a good flyer and want this as a possible crutch, it makes much more sense to simply learn to fly better...:)

Think about a spring loaded chute behind a hatch, instead of a ballistic pyro activated chute.

[stevievb]

thanks for reply thomas
It seems like every other time I put my planes in the air I forget to plugin or check something and in result of that it seems something goes wrong in the air 25% of the time. Maybee its just me but it seems like no matter what I do I just can't remember everything. I was also thinking of getting into RPV and UAV stuff and it seems like a must to have for me.

I was originally thinking a whole seperate trans/rec just so i wouldnt have to worry about radio problems but failsafe sounds like an interesting option (not sure exactly what is???).

Also, does anybody have any idea of what might be a safe decent rate????(ft/s)

Thanks,
stevievb

[TrappedinNM]

If you have trouble remembering everything, a checklist might be more in order than a parachute. I used one that the LHS printed. Don't laugh. Next time you get on a real airplane, note they still use a checklist.

If you really want a parachute, I would think a system designed around a spring-loaded (compressed) hatch held closed by a servo arm. In case of emergency, flip the switch, hatch pops open, streamer pulls out your chute.

Safe descent rate depends on whether you are in control, or in 'chute mode.

[maverick06]

go with the checklist... seriously... Its required in the large planes for a reason. I am tempted to make one for my house... so I no longer look out the windw when its raining and realizing I forgot to clean the gutters... haha

[louisvandalen]

I am a complete novice in regards to flying an airplane and I had 4 attempts flying a small esky chopper (3 times I actually did well, the 4th time I went out with a friend to show him some cool tricks with my chopper, after 6 beers that was) so now I have a plane :D

It's a slow poke (from great planes) and I am almost finished, just have to install the electronics and do the painting/laminating. So pretty soon I will be able to fly it. I will skip on the beers this time but have been seriously thinking about a springhatch operated parachute.

I found some parachutes on the internet, thin rip free nylon normally used for model rockets. They carry up to 7 kilo's it seems. A small hatch with some springs and a servo to open the lock should do the job pretty well I guess. The actual weight it will add is relatively small as the chute and wire's do not weigh a lot.

So why not?

The only dangers I see so far is the parachute ripping out the wingbolt plate (the building plan is available at http://www.greatplanes.com/airplanes/gpma0491.html ) to which I plan to attach the chute. The actual chute will go under the main turtledeck (back towards the tail). Second I'm affraid about what will hapen if I fail to switch off the engine, maybe I should try and programm both actions in the transmitter, engine off - chute out. Third, I don't know if the chute will slow down the 3kg plane enough to keep it from falling appart. Attached to the wingbolt plate I suppose it will go nose down into the ground.

Anyone some info on this rather interesting subject (for crap pilots to say the truth :)) They even equip full scale planes with these emergency parachute so why not the smaller brothers.

[Sparky Paul]

The parachute is a find idea, if you INTEND to use it.
I've seen target drones use these at the end of a mission.
Fly over the landing area, pop the chute, descend.
Otherwise, things happen way too quickly and too low for a model to benefit from a chute.
It adds weight, volume and complexity where none is just as good.

[Thomas B]

What Sparky says.

It is practical for some small UAVs that do not always have the luxury of a landing strip.

The chute for a Slow Poke, the kevlar or heavy duty elastic shock cord, the reinforced anchor point, the springs or spring wire, the balsa for boxing in a compartment and the servo strong enough to activate against the spring pressure will probably end up weighing the best part of a pound....that you will drag around forever in case of an in flight emergency that is high enough to get the chute deployed in time. If you are in the landing pattern, it is highly unlikely that it can do you any good.

As I mentioned above...unless you have a fail safe type of radio that goes to preprogrammed servo positons in case of loss of signal, the chute system will never have a chance to work in cases of radio interference or radio failure.

While this idea can be tempting for a beginner, it really does not make the practicality cut in any real way.

[louisvandalen]

What Sparky says.

It is practical for some small UAVs that do not always have the luxury of a landing strip.

The chute for a Slow Poke, the kevlar or heavy duty elastic shock cord, the reinforced anchor point, the springs or spring wire, the balsa for boxing in a compartment and the servo strong enough to activate against the spring pressure will probably end up weighing the best part of a pound....that you will drag around forever in case of an in flight emergency that is high enough to get the chute deployed in time. If you are in the landing pattern, it is highly unlikely that it can do you any good.

As I mentioned above...unless you have a fail safe type of radio that goes to preprogrammed servo positons in case of loss of signal, the chute system will never have a chance to work in cases of radio interference or radio failure.

While this idea can be tempting for a beginner, it really does not make the practicality cut in any real way.

And I guess most problems occure whilst landing...... Damn, you shattered my dreams of the uncrashable plane :D

[louisvandalen]

As I mentioned above...unless you have a fail safe type of radio that goes to preprogrammed servo positons in case of loss of signal, the chute system will never have a chance to work in cases of radio interference or radio failure.

Another novice question on the above, as i understand the fail safe systems: how do you actually programm them benificially without a chute? If you let them fly straight you might end up looking for your plane in alaska or get it shot down by the airforce but if you let it land or go down it might be necessary to remove it from the behind of a brown bear. This could prove to be a dangerous job I've been told. :D

Will the wheight influence the behaviour of the plane that much? I have it a bit overpowered with an OS engine (0,5hp) and I will refrain from any kinky loops or rolls as long as I can't fly straight.

[Sparky Paul]

There's nothing preventing -you- from doing anything you want with your airplane.
If a chute makes you feel better, then install it.

[Thomas B]

Another novice question on the above, as i understand the fail safe systems: how do you actually programm them benificially without a chute? If you let them fly straight you might end up looking for your plane in alaska or get it shot down by the airforce but if you let it land or go down it might be necessary to remove it from the behind of a brown bear. This could prove to be a dangerous job I've been told. :D

Will the wheight influence the behaviour of the plane that much? I have it a bit overpowered with an OS engine (0,5hp) and I will refrain from any kinky loops or rolls as long as I can't fly straight.

Why on earth would anyone even bother creating a failsafe radio if it would let the model fly away to Alaska in case of some failure??...;)

Failsafe radios are typically set to go to low throttle and neutral controls for the best possible chance of recovery,allowing the model to hopefull land nearby.....preventing that flight to Alaska...... :rolleyes: If you are doing intense aerobatics, you might be out of luck when the failsafe turns on in the wrong place.

Getting good flight instruction and carefully practicing is a FAR better insurance policy than the chute will ever be.

[louisvandalen]

There's nothing preventing -you- from doing anything you want with your airplane.
If a chute makes you feel better, then install it.

As a noob I will trust on your judgement :D

[louisvandalen]

Failsafe radios are typically set to go to low throttle and neutral controls for the best possible chance of recovery,allowing the model to hopefull land nearby.....preventing that flight to Alaska...... :rolleyes:

Maybe I'm silly again but I have never seen the results of a plane hitting a tree or the floor at a certain (slow landing) speed. Feeling the balsa I recon it will be spectacular seeing all these bits flying arround. Or is it not as bad as I think and can the plane take a beating?

[louisvandalen]

Maybe I'm silly again but I have never seen the results of a plane hitting a tree or the floor at a certain (slow landing) speed. Feeling the balsa I recon it will be spectacular seeing all these bits flying arround. Or is it not as bad as I think and can the plane take a beating?


Never mind, I just went through the crash corner. It's even worse as I imagined..... :eek:

[Sparky Paul]

This is about the only crash I've had where a chute would have been useful.
Lots of time to appreciate the bomb-like whistling noise after the fuselage departed the wings...

[louisvandalen]

This is about the only crash I've had where a chute would have been useful.
Lots of time to appreciate the bomb-like whistling noise after the fuselage departed the wings...

Looking at the crater it might as well of been a bomb :)

Oh my poor slow poke, i'm getting worried about flying it more and more. Especially since I have to park my car in the same area probably.

[Sparky Paul]

Looking at the crater it might as well of been a bomb :)

Oh my poor slow poke, i'm getting worried about flying it more and more. Especially since I have to park my car in the same area probably.
.
One of Murphy's -Laws-:
If you fly near your car, you will HIT your car! :)

[b-29er]

what about a mortar tube that folds up using a servo and fires a small round rearward thru the tail?

[Thomas B]

what about a mortar tube that folds up using a servo and fires a small round rearward thru the tail?

A better question is why bother.....:)

This is a bad solution that is looking for a problem.....

[flyzguy]

I am doing a UAV where we are required to use a ballistic chute and we have sized our chute and are basically using the upper stage of a large rocket. I would like to wire up our igniter to be triggered electronically from the reciever by flipping a switch/moving the throttle etc... but I don't know how to get ANY channel on my receiver to give me anything less than the receiver pack voltage (4.6-5.2V) 100% of the time, regardless of switch setting, stick position. The igniter is just like on an estes rocket, and ignites fine when given 4.8 V, so now I just need a way to send this pulse via the transmitter. Anyt ideas? I'm trying to stay away from having to do a mechanical switch to trigger an electrical impulse. I'm looking for the KISS solution here because like others have said, having the chute on board has been a headache enough! (weight/volume/chord burying/etc...)

[Thomas B]

Just use a simple electronic speed control for a brushed motor on an aux channel. I assume you are using a standard type of high power ignitor.

I would use it with a small 3 cell lipo pack to get around 12 volts out at ignition, which is what most common high power composite rocket motor ignitors prefer.

A better solution: there are a number of electronic switches that use an R/C channel to turn power on and off, like these:

http://www.teamdelta.com/products/prod2.htm

Personally, I would not ignite off of the RX power pack...voltage is too low, unless it is a flashbulb based ignition system.

If you have channels to spare, I would use two for safety...one to arm the circuit and another to fire the chute. This will help prevent accidental chute deployment from a radio glitch.

[flyzguy]

thanks for the input, we'll probably be going with the ESC option, since we have one lying around.

[b-29er]

im trying this with an aerobird challenger. im going to extend the end of he drop module with a toilet paper roll (budget) and then attach 2 18" chutes to the end. Which way does the aerial drop module's arm move?

[andrewwells13]

My drop module doesn't have an arm. It's an elastic band stretched across the module and held on the other end with a magnet. When I want to drop the parachuter, missiles, whatever... I think I have to lay off the throttle for 1 sec. Then it cuts power to the magnet and the module releases whatever it is carrying.

Has anyone ever successfully, pulled the X-port thing off of one of these Hobby Zone planes and put it on another plane?

[Brandano]

thanks for the input, we'll probably be going with the ESC option, since we have one lying around.
Just use a servo to trigger a micro switch. Probably it's better if the igniter has its own power pack as well, since you might still be able to save the UAV if the parachute doesn't deploy, but it's a sure loss if your radio stops responding. You could even use one of the channels already used, like full up elevator plus trim or motor idle plus trim if you are using an IC engine

[realtimerecon]

Stevievb the chut idea is a good one. and one im buying to try out, its not ballistic but it looks like it will do the job . hobby lobby catalog pg.137 part#hladoo2 and chut#hladoo3 same pg.also see pg. 134 airborne switch .this chut system will allow one to drop a r.c. acft into a smaller area, have fun all it takes is a dr eam and $.

[Sparky Paul]

Stevievb the chut idea is a good one. and one im buying to try out, its not ballistic but it looks like it will do the job . hobby lobby catalog pg.137 part#hladoo2 and chut#hladoo3 same pg.also see pg. 134 airborne switch .this chut system will allow one to drop a r.c. acft into a smaller area, have fun all it takes is a dr eam and $.
.
If you have control of the wind.

[Ron Williams]

The secret to the "Uncrashable Plane" is very simple. Never fly it.

[realtimerecon]

The secret to knowledge is doing !

[PurpleHaze]

The secret to the "Uncrashable Plane" is very simple. Never fly it.

Unless you have a wife insisting on giving the "hobby room" a good cleaning :D

[jrbackus]

I am doing a UAV where we are required to use a ballistic chute and we have sized our chute and are basically using the upper stage of a large rocket. I would like to wire up our igniter to be triggered electronically from the reciever by flipping a switch/moving the throttle etc... but I don't know how to get ANY channel on my receiver to give me anything less than the receiver pack voltage (4.6-5.2V) 100% of the time, regardless of switch setting, stick position. The igniter is just like on an estes rocket, and ignites fine when given 4.8 V, so now I just need a way to send this pulse via the transmitter. Anyt ideas? I'm trying to stay away from having to do a mechanical switch to trigger an electrical impulse. I'm looking for the KISS solution here because like others have said, having the chute on board has been a headache enough! (weight/volume/chord burying/etc...)
Just use a small relay switch. The voltage from the receiver will be more than enough the trip the relay and you can have a seperate 9v battery that will light the igniter.

--Jeremy

[rclinks2002]

I have thought about the possibility of using a parachute for the recovery of an airplane. I even built a small spring operated drag + main chute system that used a heavy duty 6foot military parachute. I ran into a problem with the size/weight, of the system. The military chute while heavy, allows for multiple uses with minimal wear and tear on it. Additionally, there are a few formulas for parachutes floating around out there and I determined it would be impractical for the weight of the airplane and the size of the parachute.

Ben M

[Thomas B]

Some of the newer high power rocketry chutes are much lighter then the mil spec alternatives and this would help the equation a little.

However, it still does not make it practical. People tend to crash rather more often learning how to land than anything else and getting the chute out instantly (ballistically) at low altitude is even less practical for R/C models.

The drogue and main chute non ballistic system is too slow for any emergency use on R/C models, except for the very rare structural failure at altitude.

the time effort and expense of a ballistic chute is better expended in learning how to fly and not crash.

[PurpleHaze]

What can be done isn't all done, reach beyond. :D

[b-29er]

lets just face it, the option needs to be available. it's an option to put a ballistic chute into a full-scale, and it has saved 460 or so lives. so in cases, like when that extra model lost a wing on youtube, when rubber bands are too tight, or other problems arise, it's, as one man said, better to have a rifle, a pistol, and a knife, in terms, a wing and a chute. i suggest having a top-mounted unit, concisting of 2 components- a drogue chute and rocket that deploy simultaneously, to slow the plane if by some chance, the plane is too low to deploy a chute, and a rocket to pull out the main chute.

and perhaps weight isnt the problem. instead of using a military chute, try using a trash bag that could expand, like those glad forceflex bags.

[cubfloater]

I didn't read through the whole thread but Wild Cat Fuels sold a Para Cat plane recovery system that uses a turtle shaped pod that attaches to the top of a high wing normally trainer type plane which has a small drone chute that pulls out a 6' chute and has a circuit that shuts off the engine when deployed and worked pretty good I understand. Guys would use them to see who could get closest to a target on the field. I have one and plan to install it on a plane. I'd love to see someone buy the plans from them and produce them again. I think they quit selling them maybe 5 to 7 years ago.
Jim

[airmcn_3]

I didn't read through the whole thread but Wild Cat Fuels sold a Para Cat plane recovery system that uses a turtle shaped pod that attaches to the top of a high wing normally trainer type plane which has a small drone chute that pulls out a 6' chute and has a circuit that shuts off the engine when deployed and worked pretty good I understand. Guys would use them to see who could get closest to a target on the field. I have one and plan to install it on a plane. I'd love to see someone buy the plans from them and produce them again. I think they quit selling them maybe 5 to 7 years ago.
Jim


Jim,

I would love to see this product.... Do you have any other info? Pictures? I searched their website with no luck.

Chris

[cubfloater]

Chris, yes I have a nib kit and will see if I can upload pictures. Never done that before but should n't be too difficult. Got any easy step by step how-tos to get the pics on here?

[cubfloater]

Here's pictures of the kit. More pieces of plastic than I remembered and it may be blow molded instead of vacuum formed. I wonder if Wild Cat Fuels can be contacted to see if it can be reproduced. I guess you'd have to buy the rights to it.