X5J World Competition Muncie, Indiana

[Robert Burson]

October 27th to the 29th Munice, Indiana, USA

First X5J World Competition 2006, events at the National field.

X5J Speed400 27th , only sailplanes powered by speed 400 motors,

X5J eXtreme 28th, handicap motor run times for all motors,

X5J Unlimited 29th, no motor handicap.

[wakumann]

World Competition ...


maybe you should call it 'Open US comp' will sound abit more realistic.

The format is 15 years old ,lol

M2C

Thomas

[Robert Burson]

It is open to the World, you are invited, hope you can attend, or support someone who can. ( I wonder why in the Miss Universe contest only Earth wins )

The Best
Robert

[wakumann]

Can't find my speed 400 motors, or RES models,---guess I retired them a few years ago.

Good luck with 'your' World competion.

T

[spacey]

( I wonder why in the Miss Universe contest only Earth wins )


LMAO...I guess I'm a little overcreative today but geez Robert if you only had an idea what rolled through my mind after that comment.

Good one!

[rdwoebke]

Can't find my speed 400 motors, or RES models,---guess I retired them a few years ago.

Good luck with 'your' World competion.

T

T,

You sound bitter. Is it getting cold already in Canada?

No need for speed 400 motors if you don't want to fly them, there are 2 days where you can fly whatever motors your little heart desires. And none of the classes explicitly require RES, although RES models might be used by a number of folks (I will be one of them).

I think this will be fun and will do my best to attend. BTW, Robert also organizes a postal X5J Extreme every month (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=550990). You could participate in the postal then after the October “in person contests” results are posted you could then claim that you “coulda been a contenda”.

:-)

Ryan



Ryan

[Kenny Sharp]

Is the Muncie event part of the postal?

[rdwoebke]

Is the Muncie event part of the postal?

You are from St. Louis, right? It would be worth your while to drive up.

Ryan

[Robert Burson]

Hi kkens4,

What I would like to do is take the results of the Muncie, event and combine them with the email event. I think this would make interesting reading.

My thoughts are that in the heat of competition the run times will increase as the event progresses, for the people trying to protect their position, while the people trying to move up will decrease their times.

[Kenny Sharp]

Hi Ryan,
Actually, I'm from Mass. Still though, not too too far.

Hi Robert,
I think combining the event is a good idea...but whatever you do, I'm sure it will be great!
Thanks again for the opportunity to compete and hone my skills.

[wakumann]

Ryan,

No ’Im not bitter at all, just realistic.
Nothing wrong with competitions and having fun.

Just this ‘World Comp./ Master’ talk from some local clubs which fly a non FAI event reminds me on the numerous Kick- Box associations where every club makes his own so called World Org and therefore there are hundreds of so called World Camps.

Cold in Canada/ Vancouver Island?? right now Temperatures in the 80's, last week in the 90 F, so not really cold and the Polarbears sweating, lol.

Being also on European forums I noticed they don’t use big words like ‘World’ Fxxx/ Soaring for their events, many (most) of the European competitions have more attendees (higher standards), and more international content. Maybe they are too self-effacing.

Cheers

Thomas

[Robert Burson]

Hi wakumann,

Our brothers to the South have already made it obivious that the US is Open, and our leaders would really like it to be the US Closed, which just sounds to negative to use.

The Best
Robert

[Kenny Sharp]

The Americas' Cup is an international regatta.

[Robert Burson]

Just to add a little fact to a lot of fiction, at the current "world F3J competition" only 16% of the countries in the world are present. lIf the Vatican does not fly even lower. Almost as bad as President Bush's approval rating.

[wakumann]

@ kkens 4

comparing our toy plans with million $$ yachts is a bit of a stretch.

@ Robert

Never mind, you don't get the point anyway.

16% is much higher as 0.6% ( 1 out of 160 Nations)

Call it whatever you like, if you need it for your ego,lol.

Thomas

[rdwoebke]

Call it whatever you like, if you need it for your ego,lol.



At least you are not bitter.... ;)

Ryan

[Kenny Sharp]

@ kkens 4

comparing our toy plans with million $$ yachts is a bit of a stretch.


True.
Still, both use composite construction, and both consider fluid dynamics in their construction.
But really...I concede it is a bit of a stretch.

On the other hand, this particular competition is open to the whole world.
Many competitors are from contries other than the USA. Just because the final competition is in Muncie, doesn't mean it is not international.

So, with that said, ego has nothing to do with it.
It is, by virtue of the origin countries of the competitors, an international,and therefore, world event.

[Robert Burson]

E-sailplane pilots, from these countries have flown the X5J eXtreme, I always thought they were part of the world.

[rcbrust]

Robert,

What's the weather like in Muncie at the end of October?

Thanks,
Randy

[ken troxell]

robert...how do we register? ken

[rdwoebke]

Randy,

As someone that used to live about an hour from the AMA national flying site, I can tell you late October in Muncie can be a bit hit or miss. I'd say there is a decent chance it will be in the low 70s that time of year although it could be cooler that is for sure also. There are certianly a share of windy days in October but I often contest in October and sometimes it can be some of the best days of flying. More often than not when contesting in late October I will be wearing a windbreaker or perhaps even a medium jacket.

Ryan

[Robert Burson]

Hi ken and rcbrust

My contest experience is the OVSS series for sailplanes, and what we usually do is just have a registration in the morning of the event, we will be using a flight matrix and each pilot will have a number to handle frequency conflicts. Current fee schedule will be $15 for one day $25 for two and $30 for three, which I hope is reasonable. Ryan did a good job of describing our weather, do bring things that will keep you warm. We will fly in everything but rain and low clouds. This is a winter based competition so I am hoping for much better weather than Janurary.

The Best
Robert

[Jim Deck]

Bob has a great idea here and kudos to him for his efforts - it should be a great event at a great site. A gentle caveat if you're thinking of attending - Muncie is also the home of Ball State University and, if there's a home game that weekend, motel rooms can be very, very scarce. Plan accordingly.
However, gas prices were 10 % lower there than up at my end of the state.
Jim Deck

[ken troxell]

robert...i just checked the ball state football schdule. 10/28 is an away game at miami of ohio.
looking forwrd to meeting you on 10/28

[Robert Burson]

Hi Ken,

Great minds must think a like, that thought ran through my mind today. Muncie, has many, many hotels and motels to stay at because of Ball State, so they should be dealing on that weekend. Looking forward to meeting you also. Pray for nice weather.

The Best
Robert

[flyingdogtwo]

Robert:

Would you PM/Email me some particulars about how things are going to be run? Rules/times/directions to the field (since I've never been there)/ maybe a phone number or two. I'll diffinantly be in the sp400, but would also be interested in number of entries between the hadicapped and open (unlimited) class. I would prefer to fly in the open class, but depending on the size of this class..may just use this day to get a jump on the trip back home.

[Robert Burson]

Hi Steve (flyingdogtwo)

I will copy some AMA info and email it to you, I hope the problem we have with receiving each others email is over, should have time this weekend.

Friday is the eXtreme for Speed 400 only so we will not be using the motorhandicap.
Saturday is the eXtreme, any ship can fly and we will handicap the motor run.
Sunday is the unlimited eXtreme, basicly everything is legal but no motor handicap.

Numbers will probably be greatest on Saturday, since anyone can fly.

The perfect but not necessarily best plane is a light Speed 400 and brushless ship, since it would be good in all the events with a motor change.

We will be man on man 10minute flights, flight time minus motor time, plus 30 landing points. Weather will determine the number of rounds but 6 to 10 should be no problem. During the mini eXtreme in the Spring everyone wanted more rounds. Bring at least two battery packs.

The Best
Robert

[Robert Burson]

Borrowed from AMA. As of September 17th through Travelvelocity, many rooms available.

[rdwoebke]

Robert,

Quick question. What will be the ruling on switching planes? Say if one brings a speed 400 plane and is flying the Saturday event and his ship is damaged, can he switch to a different power plane (and different handicap) backup?


Ryan

[Robert Burson]

Hi Ryan

Good question: For any round.

X5J speed 400 , two speed 400 planes.

X5J eXtreme , two planes any handicap.

X5J unlimited , any two planes.

AMA has changed the unlimited sailplane event to, any two sailplanes for any round, since most contestants always had two available in case one was damaged, before this rule, now they get to fly either. Most pilots fly their best ship first, and only go to the back-up if something happens to it.

The Best,
Robert

[rdwoebke]

Not that I really want to open a can of worms on you, but how about this stratagy:

For X5J extreme, pilot has a solid climbing speed 400 plane as the primary and a super hot 3+ meter unlimited plane for the backup. This way, if conditions are good you get the smaller (and some would say easier to land) ship for the LZ. You also get the nice motor run handicap (a 45 second run into lift would net 13.5 seconds of computed time). If conditions go bad you can switch to your rocket ship and go a bit more conservitive with high climbs.

To those of you on the fence about this contest, I forsee lots of very interesting stratagy playing out. I think it will be a real hoot and plan to be there Saturday. I might not have the best planes/power plants at the field, but I know I'll have a great time.

Ryan

[Robert Burson]

You pays your money, and takes your chances.

Hopefully, this event will become the event of independent thinkers and pilots.

The Best
Robert

[Robert Burson]

Agenda for the X5J events each day.

8:30 am EST Sign-in and fees ( $15/ one day, $25/two, and $30/three )

9:30 am EST Pilots meeting. Discussion of event rules, field boundaries, number of rounds, and any special concerns.

10:00 am EST First Round

Weather conditions will determine the number of rounds. Please have two battery packs for each event.

The Best
Robert

[flyingdogtwo]

Robert:

Got an idea bout the number of entries per event, yet?

[Robert Burson]

Hi Steve,

Since, you do not have to pre-register, I would be guessing. From the people I have talked to Sat. looks like low twenties, but this could be low. Regardless, we will have fun, bring something to fly after the comp.

The Best
Robert

[flyingdogtwo]

OK--thanks

[rdwoebke]

The contest is this weekend! :) I can't wait! I think I'm going to fly the Paragon. Although I reserve the right to change my mind. ;)

Ryan

[ken troxell]

the weather in muncie does not look too charming for this weekend. i am trying to dcide whether to make the trek from maryland....ken

[rdwoebke]

Depends on what you consider charming.... ;-)

I'm going to make the trek on Saturday from southern Indiana. :-)

Forecast is looking a bit scary though. Bring something warm to wear.

Ryan

[flyingdogtwo]

Robert:
I regret having to cancel the trip to Muncie. We're having a slight blizzard this moring. This front is moving east and me, being an Iowa native, I know how nasty the midwest came become. That..and having to replace my Pike due to a mishap, well....things just didn't add up in my favor, as of now. Maybe sometime in the future. Hope your comp goes off fine for those who do make it.

[rdwoebke]

Good luck to those that are competing Friday in the speed 400. Wish I could be there with you, but I'll have to settle for flying with you all on Saturday in the X5J. Forecast is looking better fro Saturday than it had been.

Ryan

[OVSS Boss]

From what it has sounded talking to Bob today and driving here in Ohio, Friday is a wash.

Marc

[rdwoebke]

Saturday looks to be crazy windy. I think it will be the most wind I have ever flown in. :-) Wish me luck.

Ryan

[Kenny Sharp]

Good luck Ryan. :)

[Ed Franz]

Good luck Ryan, a forecast of "Windy. Partly cloudy. Highs around 50. West winds 20 to 30 mph with gusts to around 45 mph." Is enough to make me stay home.

Ed

[rdwoebke]

Thanks. It was a crazy experience. I'm glad I flew it and feel better because of the experience. I'll post a write up soon.

Ryan

[rdwoebke]

OK, here is my experience.

Ben Pitchkites and I met up at 7:30 in Indianapolis for the 50 minute trek to the AMA national flying site for the X5J Extreme. We had heard (and experienced, given we live in Indiana) the prior day was a complete wash out. Today was supposed to be very windy. Meeting up and packing the car early in the morning, it was obvious it was going to be windy.

Ben and I arrived at Muncie and Ken Troxell (from Maryland!) and Don Blackwell (from the Muncie MIST club) were already at the field sitting in Ken’s mini van. After a bit of chit chat Ben and I moved our vehicle to the parking lot nearest the flying area, put our AMA cards in the frequency board, and decided to start setting our planes up. I had decided given the windy conditions to fly my Allegro Lite 2 meter with the tuned speed 400, and 4:1 Graupner gearbox. As I was setting up, Jim Stum from my model rocket club showed up at the field to serve as a helper/spotter/timer today. Before the contest I was the first person to put a plane in the air as I tried the Allegro with an 8 cell 500 AR pack. I decided that pack although having an OK climb did not have the run time I thought could be necessary. Glad I made that decision. Jim brought his Kestrel along and said in the early morning lulls were about 8 mph and gusts about 16 mph. If it would just stay like that, it would be a pretty good day of flying.

There were 7 foolhardy pilots that entered the X5J Extreme. Myself, Ben, Ken, Don, Robert Burson (the CD), Mike Kramer, and Greg Prater (also from MIST). I think everyone except Ben and myself were flying brushless setups. Given the conditions Robert decided to initially have the rounds be 8 minute tasks. Both stopwatches (motor and flight time) started when a horn was sounded. Robert decided to have two flight groups and he initially split them by the order contestants signed up.
That put me in the first flight group competing against Mike, Don, and Ken. I launched right at the buzzer and worked my way up for about a 90 second climb. I quickly found out that I had to keep quite a bit of down trim in to keep at least zero ground speed. After gliding for just a bit, I fired up the motor again. About 5 or so minutes into the task, my timer informed me that the other 3 guys had already landed. I kept alternating between throttle and glide for the rest of the flight. Actually found a bit of lift right at the end (why does that always happen?) and popped the spoiler to land right at 8:00. I later found out that the other 3 pilots landed early because they did not have anything left in their batteries to make more climbs. In my case, I ran my motor for over 4 minutes! But with the .3 handicap I ended up winning the round. Ben flew in the next flight group against Robert and Greg. Ben flew his speed 400 powered Wind Dancer. He also had to run the throttle quite a bit (over 4 minutes) and ended up burning out his motor (he was pulling over 15 amps) but did pretty well given the handicap. After round 1, Ben, myself, and Robert were in the top 3. Ken had broken something on his glider on the landing and it was now down to 3 pilots.

In round 2, I timed for Greg Prater in the first flight group as he flew his electric BD. He had to run the motor quite a few times, but the BD did really well in the conditions (that were now at least 20 mph and gusting a bit higher). He landed a bit early due to running out of juice in his battery pack, but came close to the 8 minutes. In my flight group I was flying against Ben and Robert. Ben switched to his B20 powered Omega since he burned out the speed 400 in his WD. I had much of the same as the previous round, but had to run the motor even longer. Since Ben and I were flying against each other this round, I had Greg time for me. Greg informed me that Ben had landed about 6 minutes into the round, and I once again found lift (this time even better) at the very end and could have glided at least 30-45 seconds longer but popped the spoiler to land a bit late (my bad). I had at least 4:30 of motor run time in this round. I found out Robert only had one motor run and got a landing so I got hurt points wise on this round. Not that I really even cared about the points any at this point…

After landing, I found out Ben had gotten blown down wind and lost his Omega. Jim was timing for him and said neither of them saw the plane land. Ben went after the plane and I fired up my GPS to get a line with the help of Jim. The contest organizers asked folks if they wanted to fly another round or break for lunch. I said I was indifferent but said if they would break for lunch I’d help Ben try to find his plane. They decided on a lunch break and Jim and I went out to pick up Ben and work the line on the GPS. We drove out quite a bit and had to drive around roads as some were closed off due to flooding from the rain the day before. The GPS really helped keep the line of where the plane should be. Unfortunately, we did not find his Omega but are a bit hopeful it might turn up from a farmer finding it when harvesting.

When we made it back, it was really blowing hard. Some guys said they called the local airport and were told it was a steady 25 knots and gusts up to 35 knots! Yikes! Robert called for one more round, a 6 minute round. I was in the bottom flight group with just Don at this point. It was hard to even hold onto the plane. I launched and really had to fight the wind. I ran the throttle for 90 seconds, and then chopped the throttle for perhaps 10-15 seconds of glide. Ran the throttle for perhaps another 45 seconds, then found a patch of lift and went to glide. I got down wind, and this is where I made the fatal mistake. I should have really pushed upwind but instead tried to climb some more with throttle. I got pushed back bad and started to have trouble getting up wind. It is possible I might have gotten into LVC and not realized it, or perhaps I was pitching up and not realizing it due to the distance, but I kept getting further and further away. Finally I started loosing orientation and spiraling, so I just chopped throttle and let it go in. I fired up the GPS again, confirmed the line from Ben and Jim (who were my timers in that last round). Ben and I drove out to find the wreckage. The GPS really helped as it did not at all appear to be on the AMA property. I crossed the road and went into a harvested corn field (we had asked the farmer permission earlier in the day to look on her field since Ben’s Omega went over that way). I walked through the field then went right to get back on the line (the GPS told me this) and sure enough, there was my Allegro, sticking tail up. Walked over to the Allegro, and sure enough Dr. Drela’s design came through for me, not even any punctured covering! I picked it up and the wind almost ripped it out of my hands! I struggled to get out of the corn and onto the road. Then I unplugged the Allegro and turned off my TX (I took it along thinking I could use the servo noises to find the plane). I took off the wing tips, stuck those in my coat and even then struggled back to where Ben had parked.

We drove back and found in the top group of round 3, only Robert flew! Greg and Mike had decided against flying for some reason. Robert had decided 3 rounds was enough insanity (thank goodness, I did not want to be tempted to fly again!) and gave out awards. Since he did not run speed 400 the day before, he gave 2nd to Ben for flying 1 round today with a speed 400 plane and gave 1st to me for my 3 flights with the Allegro. In X5J Extreme, I somehow placed 3rd, Don was 2nd, and Robert took a well deserved 1st. I’m still impressed Robert flew that 2nd round with just 1 motor run.

I’m still stinging about my flying in round 3. It could have been way worse. I commented that turning off the motor was my 1st mistake. Jim corrected me and said that was my 2nd mistake, turning the motor on was my first mistake! How true.

Ryan

[Forest Flyer]

Ryan,

Sounds like a real moving-air adventure! That kind of wind is certainly a major hazard for the standard X5J plane, and I am glad that you were at least able to locate your Allegro. In retrospect, you guys should have done all of the flights right after sunrise, since thermaling was not a reaslistic possibility at any point during the day. Or maybe you should have flown F5B or maybe F5D planes.

It was not quite so crazy windy on Saturday over here on the western side of Indiana, but still really windy. I flew the postal X5J contest on that day, and it was definitely beyond my thermaling experience (especially the near-ground turbulence). My numbers are posted on the “X5J sticky thread” - I only came close to making the 10 minute time without a re-start on the last flight (close to sunset) when things had calmed-down a bit. Looks like I’ll finish in last place, but maybe I’ll get some wind points....

FF

[rdwoebke]

Or maybe you should have flown F5B or maybe F5D planes.


If I had one, I would have.... My only options were the Allegro Lite (with a lipo pack and plenty of run time) or the Paragon and just 60 seconds run time. I think I made the right choice...

As it turns out, in those insane conditions a speed 400 was not a bad way to go. Running the motor for 4 minutes only cost 72 seconds of motor run time and guys with brushless motors often had to use that much motor run. Crazy day! But fun. You should try to make it up to Muncie sometime as I hope to see MIST run more X5J contests.

Ryan

[iti20090]

Hi folks

Will this be on the existing F5J Muncie web site and please remind where I find that?

Kind regards
Dave

October 27th to the 29th Munice, Indiana, USA

First X5J World Competition 2006, events at the National field.

X5J Speed400 27th , only sailplanes powered by speed 400 motors,

X5J eXtreme 28th, handicap motor run times for all motors,

X5J Unlimited 29th, no motor handicap.

[rdwoebke]

Dave,

I'm not sure what you are asking here.

Ryan