new Park Hawk owner

[uglyplane]

Hi All,

I just received my long awaited yellow PH from NES this Friday and am ready to assemble it, I have a few questions...

Will a JR 610 RX be suitable vs the GWS single conversion (new 610M)?

What are the best servos? I heard that the orignal suggested servos strip very easily, can I use two Hitec HS81's?

I have a very small CC Pixie 14 ESC on hand, can I use that?

Is there a website with better assembly pictures than the included manual's fuzzy grey pix?

Thanks,

Bill Nale
Round Rock, Texas
www.angelfire.com/tx/nale
:)

[Jerry Rose]

Welcome aboard. You are going to love your new bird. Hopefully some other guys can help on the transmitter and non-HS servo questions.

On the HS-81 servo issue, it can be used in both locations. The elevator servo normally mounts horizontally in the fuselage, but an HS-81 won't fit vertically. Fortunately, the slot is larger top to bottom, and an HS-81 will fit in there. One problem is that you would have to drill a hole and tap treads, or put a locknut on the little bolts on the opposite side of the fuselage. Also, the weight will shift the CG aft, and you may need to put ballast up front to keep the CG in range.

Personally, I think the bigger servos are a good idea until you master the bird. (Training wheels!) Once I have my skills wired and I want a lighter bird, I will go to two HS-55s.

:cool:

[eflyer1234]

Yes you can use the 610M. The Pixie will also be acceptable as many are flying on the Pixie 7P.

As far as pictures, I can send you some color ones, or if you look at the history of this forum, you will find a lot here.

-Jeffrey
JGRC
www.jgrc.biz

[uglyplane]

Thanks for the input, I'll do some more surfing on the PH threads for better pix. I'm looking forward to getting this jewel in the air.

[Ed Couch]

Gentlemen, as Bill has I to have received a new Park Hawk and made assembly with no problems. Last night the wind lay for the first time in four days and we went for the first ascent. Air vehicle started its climb out with no problems beating the air into submission when the right wing failed at the hinge line. The new Delron bushing had twisted under load and the pivot hole was slightly inlarged. With no tools at the field, ran home and loosened thing up and repositioned things to alignment. Second flight about five seconds into it after about a ten second full throttle run up test, it failed the second time. Will attempt to redrill Delron pivot points in the bushing. I know this is the new way but I wonder here. Everything else has been of excellent quality but I wondered about the set up for the pivots over the old L-bracket way when I first say it. Everything was tight and in alignment when the wing pivot failed. Not the best way to finish a beautiful day. Any help appreciated. ed couch Ft Worth Tx

[Jerry Rose]

Ouch! You are talking about the plastic hinge points at the wing root, right? Once the little holes are elongated, I don't see how they could be salvaged unless you drilled through and reversed them. They might be covered by warrantee since they failed right out the gate.

Are these the parts you are talking about?

[Ed Couch]

Yes, the right rear bushing/bearing is the one that failed, as discussed offline, will call Sean this afternoon and get recommendation for resolution of problem. eec

[Ed Couch]

Gents,lucky enough to get in a couple of flight last evening when things calmed down and again had a blast but noticed that it took a lot of left trim to make the bird fly straight without any drift. The night before I had tried to fly it in winds over seven or eight knots and it had tumbled out of the sky within seconds of launch and I must have shifted something around causing her to pull left on last night flights. Jeff, will attempt to utilize your trimming techniques to resolve problem, it took me a while to understand what was written but although I may be a little slow sometimes, the light finally went off. Also, with the heavier servos (81s)I swear this things flies tail heavy, will try the battery pack as far forward as possible turned 90 degrees as recommended. Tried expodential on the elevator last evening, it helped but its not the answer as a lot of you won't have expo with the simpler radios. May also go back to lighter servos if this continues. Anyway you look at it though, its still a hoot. Floating along at less than 50 percent power on a quite night can't be beat, at least the local birds like it. ed

[KeithK]

I noticed when mine is flying good it turns real tight. When the air heats up it not only won't gain much altitude, it takes a looong time to turn (remember I am flying above 7000ft.) It certainly acts unlike any plane I have ever tried to trim. I am using a HS-55 for the elevator and an hs-81 for the rudder. I easily flew it indoors here (big indoors). Unfortunately, outdoors with the heat comes the winds. I wonder if wind is causing me more of a problem with turning and climbing than the change in air density?

Sure is fun in the (relatively) cool, calm mornings and evenings. Do all colors attract the little birds or is black of particular interest to them?

[Jerry Rose]

I remember a study that was done using freshly hatched ducklings. A shadow of a cross was cast on the ceiling. When it was moved across the ceiling with the long neck forwards, the little guys paid no attention to it. When moved with the top of the cross forwards, they freaked out.

Apparently, little birds are hard wired to fear predatory birds like Hawks who have that basic wing forward shape. So I am betting it is the shape of the ParkHawk rather than the color that gets the ire of little birds.

By the way, mine is white and they hate it too.

[Robert Stinson]

I want to share my flight experiences with the parkhawk. It's flying well now, but didn't always.

It would turn right constantly. I had all trim to the left, even re-mounted the tail with some left. No luck. It was uncontrollable.

One can change the tension on idividual wings by pulling one side tighter - details posted elsewhere - but this didn't help either.

Finally, acting on Seans advice, I reversed the covering left to right and voila! It flies like a dream! Can't figure out why, but I'm not complaining.

As far as turning, yeah it is different. I usually give it a little nose down, then turn input, then pull the tail up while turning. This gives it more bite, and the down turn at first keeps it from stalling.

I've gotten fancy at landing - I do a glide (drop!) until the last 10 feet, then flap the wings to slow it, then off power just as it touches down.

I'm using a single conversion rx - it works fine. I notice that at far ranges it's sometimes hard to determint the birds flight attitude - it won't keep still! - so I really don't exceed the rx rnge.

[tdollmeyer]

Keith,

You might keep in mind that when your bird is flying good on the cooler days that it is also flying faster. The increased speed will cause the tail to be more responsive. My planes do the same thing at the slower speeds. Took mine out this evening after the cool front went through. Could not believe the differance. Also noticed that which battery pack I used made a major differance on how it flew. The pack that came with mine has the green cells and the packs that came with Nancy's and the spare have blue cells. The blue ones outperformed the green one hands down. Very noticable on flapping speed as well as having three minute flights instead of one. Anyone know what the differance are between these two? I am still going to try 9 cells to see if I can get the flat part of the curve above the voltage needed to sustain a longer flight. Just waiting for a speed control to get in. The IFO site showed one in stock yesterday so I ordered it. Should get to try 9 cells before the end of next week.

I also got high enough tonight to try a pidgeon glide to a powered pull out about two feet off the ground and then let it settle to the ground. This thing is still putting a big grin on my face during the whole flight. Nothing has done that since I started flying heli's.

Terry

[eflyer1234]

The difference in the cells is the manufacturer.

Green cells are Sanyo
Blue cells are Varta

The cells in the kits is based on luck of the draw when the kits come in.

-Jeffrey
JGRC
www.jgrc.biz

[Jerry Rose]

Originally posted by tdollmeyer
This thing is still putting a big grin on my face during the whole flight.

Dittos. That is a perfect description the effect this bird has on me too!

:D

[KeithK]

Terry,

Not sure that the bird is flying faster on cool days, I would think it would actually be flying slower in denser air. It definitely flies better though. I tried 9 Sanyo 720 cells, a bit better performance but the Sanyo 720 cells suffer from high internal resistance so I get severe voltage sags when I try the higher currents. Someone posted about a different AAA NiMH cell that is designed for higher currents but has a bit lower capacity. I am still looking for the post, he has some nice graphs showing the voltages at different currents. Found some 350mA NiCads that I want to try, right after I repair some puncture holes in the wing. Was out slope soaring (actually harassing) with the "real" birds when the battery pack gave out and I managed to land in a Yucca bush. Luckily I have some kite tape to try out. Then the kids (which seem to flock around the P.H. as quickly as the birds) pulled it out by the tail, giving me my only stripped servo. Anyone perfected that guano dispenser yet?

Keith

[Robert Stinson]

Had my first "stall" experience with my parkhawk today. I'd been heading into the wind, then turned away and at the same time pulled up. The nose dropped immediately to downward vertical. I kept the wings flapping, and it came out, probably 20 - 30 feet lower. Recovered ok, so I went up and tried it again to become familiar. It's usually the same - nose down, straight down fall, then it comes out of it. The unique aspect of it all is that with the wings flapping, you can't tell immediately what it is doing in response to your control inputs. Actually, I coulda sworn it tumbled tail first on one try - a loop, maybe!

On another tack - with a slight breeze, you can get it to hover by adjusting the power accordingly. Now THAT brings the crowds! Ifit wasn't for the exposed gears, it'd be fun to try to "catch-land" it...

[eflyer1234]

I have caught mine. I have the scab to prove it!

[Ed Couch]

Gents, resolved the constant turning problem I was having with the sail. It did not make a difference which direction the sail was on, tape side up or down, when flipped over turned the other way. Its diffently the sail, you can feel the difference in tension between the two aft rods. Resolved problem by slicing the covering about 0.5 to 0.75 inch aft of each batten on the tips of the opposite wing from the turn. Did it a little at a time until directional control settled down and everything come back in alignment. Flying with the tail cranked over to maintain level flight could and did cause some strange flying habits. Hated to cut sail but that was the only thing I could think of to correct problem. Always had tape to correct if I screwed up.

About the stall, noticed real quick there is no pre-warning prior to departure from controlled flight. When she lets go at less than twenty or so feet about all you get out is an "Aw-S__t" and its in the ground, I have a broken beak to prove it, my fault, not the birds. At altitude I've done it a couple of times and full throttle and aft on the stick pulls things out but too low and its oops! Also, it tumbles too. Got three turns end-over-end, looks like it stumped its toe, flop-flop, full throttle, immediate recovery and went merrily on its way.

Got bounced by a red tailed hawk Saturday morning while communing with nature. I had been up for about two minutes when a friend called incoming at about five o'clock to my nose. Hawk hung about a hundred foot above me off right wing tip for several minutes scoping the bird out. Finally decided it looked like lunch, caught him out of the corner of my high folding up and putting claws out, headed down. Figured what-the-hell and pulled right and up into bird. Went to maximum wing beat and got turned in time, went beak to beak. Might as well go down fighting, startled the hawk and he backpeddled away and circled back to try and figure this out. Used the famous pigeon glide to get the hell on the ground quick and landed about seventy five feet away from me. Started toward the bird and the hawk flew by about twenty feet away and four foot or so above the downed bird singing his war song that I was getting his kill. About ten folks were at the field cracking up but still a little shocked. Not a scratch on the bird and the hawk itself was a work of gods art, beautiful in its own right. Time to go to work, see ya. ed

[Ed Couch]

A quite Sunday afternoon with the purple bird. ed

[Ed Couch]

Just one more time. eec

[tdollmeyer]

Taken at the fun fly in Summit county last month. About 8500'.

[Robert Stinson]

Jeff/eflyer

I'm curious. How much would it cost to buy a new wing covering and tail? If it wasn't too much I'd consider an all-black setup. That'd really look like a big crow! Or, brown would be hawk-like..

[Robert Stinson]

tdollmeyer - where is summit fly? I live in San Diego, alt 14', but I have family in Estes Park...

[tdollmeyer]

The eastern edge of Summit county is right at the divide extending north and south of Interstate 70.

Terry

[eflyer1234]

Sorry for the delay, I am travelling. As far as the wing sets, these sell for $75 a set.

-Jeffrey

[uglyplane]

Guys, this is Bill again, the original thread starter:
I just finished my yellow PH assembly yesterday. I used 2 HS85MG's, CC 14 amp ESC, JR610M micro RX. I have a couple of questions before I attempt aviation:

Thanks to Jerry Rose for all of the pix, they made assembly very easy! Thanks to everyone else who has posted replys and Sean Kincade for getting the upgraded hinges to me so fast.

1. I'm only going locktite the crank and hinge areas where the ball links attach, nowhere else, correct?

2. for now I'm using the stock RX antenna running behind the bird until I install a deans type, is that ok?

3. The tail should be a approx 20-25* measured against the flat surface of the top of the fuz (bird), in the servo nuetral position?

4. My CG is great until I give down elevator, it goes slightly tail heavy when the tail servo swivels outward, will this be a problem?

5.how much servo throw for elevator and rudder?

Thanks for all and any assistance...:) :)

Bill:) :)

[Jerry Rose]

I can answer some of your questions.

Q1: I used the blue Loctite on the metal to metal points, & clear nail polish EVERYWHERE else. The Loctite can damage plastic, but I wasn't willing to have all those other places go untreated. And colored polish makes good witness marks.

Q2: The original receiver antenna seems to have marginally better range than the Azarr antenna I used. The advantage of the Azarr is that I rid myself of that dangly tangly mess!

Q4: I first set my bird up with the Ailerons and Elevator on the right stick. This made for some exciting moments of overcontrol. Now I have it set up like Jeffery recommends, with elevator on the left stick as backup and trim only. Use the throttle for altitude control and she will behave far better. For extreme maneuvers I'll move the Elevator back to the right stick.

[Ed Couch]

Bill, I used locktite on the bolts holding the pivot points to the wings and the main gear. Also used it at the tail pivot points. Have not had anything fall off yet.

Concerning throws: Elevator is 100 percent up and 80 percent down. Roll control is 120 percent right and left all flight controls on right stick of JR transmitter.

I fly mode 2 and have also flown mode 1 a number of times but will stick with primary directional control and pitch on right stick. The elevator on the bird is primarily a trim control and I also use it to increase roll in turn if needed. Throttle makes you go up and down. Full throttle and you go up, decrease power and you come down, no brainer. I start the turn with the right stick and increase the turn rate by pulling the elevator aft and holding increasing the roll rate dramatically. Look at the tail prior to flight and you will understand. There is nothing wrong with a split stick but I'll stick with mode 2 thank you.

As for the antenna, I used the FMA X-Treme 5, running the antenna aft up the side of the elevator servo and through two small holes punched in the tail surfaces with about six inches hanging off the tail. No problem with range and not much hanging aft of tail assembly. I use carpet thread and surgeons knot to hold things in place.

Have fun

ed

[uglyplane]

Thanks for the tips, I will follow those before I fly. I think I'll keep everything on the R stick as well. I can always use dual rates to prevent over controlling. Pretty much looks like full servo throw on roll function? Is the initial angle of the tail (at servo neutral)
about 20 degrees from the flat upper surface of the frame where the sail attaches?

Also, is the CG shift aft (when tail servo is extended) a cause for concern?

Thanks,
Bill

[Ed Couch]

I measured 22 to 25 degrees from the flat back and worked the C/G with the tail centered. Never noticed a change in the air except with the two 81 servos in tail with FMA Extreme receiver she balanced a little tail heavy. Never noticed it flying aft c/g until the wing latched in gliding position and then the nose pitched up and control could get a little funky. Lighter servos should not cause a problem. With pigeoned wings say at a 30 degree dihedral angle she falls like a rock but is directionally stable, goes more or less where you want it too. Take your time and keep some altitude at first until the bird makes sense to ya. Never quit flying the bird when in trouble, keep the power on and flap those wings hard its amazing how many times I've got out of self induced trouble by going full throttle and pulling aft. Once the nose it up assume normal flight routine. ed

[Shawn Palmer]

Ed,

Will you have your PH out @ the fly-in tomorrow?

Jim and I are planning to come down and play, It'd be nice to see it since I'm considering getting one.

anyone tried BL in one yet? (H~L 280size or baby Hacker?)

Shawn Palmer
RC Groups Sales/Marketing Mgr.
sales@rcgroups.com

[Ed Couch]

Shawn, bird down due to misaligned fuselage, can't glue anymore parts on bird and keep them in formation any longer. Ordered new fus Wednesday and was hoping for todays delivery but it did not make it. Got three grandkids at house tomorrow so don't know if I'll make the Thunderbird fly-in (40 years as a club). Would like to and help out Woody Lake with the demos. If you make it, tell him I sent you and your Park Hawk in my place and walk the walk, those good old boys ain't never seen nothing like that. eec

[Shawn Palmer]

That's too bad Ed, I was looking foreward to seeing one in action. I've been on the fence between a PH and a Hoverfly heli (been flying Jim's @ his house and am thouroughly addicted!).

Jim's not sure if he'll be able to get out there for sure now either :(

Are the Bedford Boy's still rocking thursdays? I'm back to where I might be able to get down there occasionally again :)

Shawn

[Ed Couch]

New fuselage arrived Saturday afternoon, sorry I missed the show. The Park Hawk and Hoverfly are parden the expression two differents birds, get both, its only money. Put new fuse on bird but she seems to have lost a little of her pep. Checked batteries and they are ok so I guess the next step will be to run over at mikes and get a new Guapner 300 motor and replace it. Nothing else seems to have changed. Got a couple of flights this morning but about 25 feet was max out altitude and she didn't stay up to long at that, will check batteries again but its the same with both packs.

Anybody have any ideals or have had these problems before, please sound off. I would appreciate any help.

Boys Ranch still on for Thursdays noon till 1500. Will not be able to make it but about twice a month at best, depends on workload at Lockheed.

ed

[Jerry Rose]

Hi Ed. When my bird wasn't putting out enough oomph, it turned out that my gear lash from the Drive gear on the Speed 300 to the One Inch Idler Gear was too tight. When I loosened it up, she came to life. That lead me to experiment with the Lithium Grease, which also improved her performance. In my case, the Gear Lash issue was the biggie.

I understand that this was noticed early on by Sean, and that he checks them before they leave the nest. But if you've had the motor off and on like I did, anything is possible. :D

[eflyer1234]

The other thing to look for is that your hinges are not to tight. You want them so they do not move, but with the linkage not attached, the wing should flap freely.

-Jeffrey

JGRC
www.jgrc.biz

[Robert Stinson]

Had a crash yesterday; stall at 35 feet. It fell on its nose, and broke it's little neck!. Actually, the fusejust in front of the hinges, that constitutes the head profile, snapped. It still flies.

I don't know about others' experiences, but my birdie is real sensitive to wind. A side wind will make it tough to turn. Going into a headwind, if you aren't careful, it can go nose up and stall. It's because the fuselage is not still, so it's hard to keep track of it's overall attitude.

It's actually fun, though. You have to learn a whole new set of skills, which is part of the excitement of this hobby.

[Ed Couch]

Gents, thanks for all the help, I took the motor off when I replaced the fuselage yesterday and didn't think to check the motor bushings, should have (see photo below). The spinning shaft had elongated the bushing after about sixty flights and it looks like that was the cause of lose of power. Will test fly this evening and see what happens. The brushes were not that good either. On the alignment side, unless you file some slots in the fuselage you aren't going to be moving things around very much. The gear mesh feels quite nice with the new motor attached and she seems quite happy at full throttle. Batteries on charge and hoping wind will lay this evening. Pardon the quality of the picture but my camera ain't to shuft up close but you can see the shape ain't quite round, been quite a side load on the motor causing the problem. ed

[BillBird]

Does anyone know of a light weight servo saver for some of the recommended Micro Servos that might work for the ParkHawk at least for the elevator servo and maybe the tail rotator servo?

Appreciate the help,

[Sparr]

a servo saver for the HS55 would be great. ive mostly stripped my first one but im still using it, trying to stick with it until its completely useless so that i have more experience after putting on the replacement.

PS: has anyone tried introducing a slight vertical U shape into the tail to improve 'rudder' response when the 'elevator' is horizontal?

[frankenfoamy]

Flying in calm air is a joy. Wind is another matter. Has anyone attempted mounting a vertical stabilizer on the tail for windier days?

http://rcguy.tripod.com/

[Sparr]

frankenfoamy, that was the pupose of my idea. if you curve the tail then in a neutral position the edges will be vertical and the center will be horizontal, providing much more stabilization.

[frankenfoamy]

I tried the U shape by rigging a thread accross one side of the tail to the other. The improved stability was marginal in my test.

[eflyer1234]

The best method is still to make sure that you mix elevator in with rudder. That gives you the best angle and tightest turns. I can turn mine in 10-15 feet which is good for the bird.

-Jeffrey

JGRC
www.jgrc.biz

[uglyplane]

Guys,
I finally got a good flight on the yellow PH today. Felt like a 6-7 minute flight. Most of the problems were due to the tail coming loose. It's fixed now and I LOVE it!
I used ; JR 610M RX, two HS85MG's, CC Pixie 14 ESC and the new hinge blocks.

Here's some pix of the bird and the tail mod:

(picture's a little jagged due to sizing it down)

[uglyplane]

Here's a pic of the tail mod. It consists of four pieces of fiberboard sandwiched together and bound with kevlar thread.