12-gram BL Outrunner for F3P!

[3d_Crazy]

I have a limited supply of the new MicroDAN 2003-F3P 12g motor. These motors are "pre-production" which means we might change a couple of little things before they go into mass market. One thing is the bell. These pre-production motors use an aluminum bell, but we are looking into other materials. So because of that, whoever purchases one of these pre-production motors will get 15% off of a final production version if they want.

http://e-foamies.com/store/catalog/images/MD2003F3P_72dpi_web.jpg

I put one of these on the scale, and it read 12.1g! No false advertising here! :D Now I'm going to have to come out with a line of planes for these awesome little motors!

Here is the link to pull the trigger. http://e-foamies.com/store/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=67

Tim
http://e-foamies.com

[Malves]

What's the max amps for this motor?

[3d_Crazy]

On 2-cells I'd say 7 amps max... ~50watt 12g motor.

Tim

[tim_mellor]

Mmmmmm Motors ....... (Homer like complete with drool)

:D looking very nice I'd say. My airframe is roughed out and waiting for assembly when it gets here.

Tim

[3d_Crazy]

:) Your motor has been boxed up and will ship tomorrow!

Can't wait to see it on your plane.

Tim
e-foamies.com

[whopper]

I have a limited supply of the new MicroDAN 2003-F3P 12g motor. These motors are "pre-production" which means we might change a couple of little things before they go into mass market. One thing is the bell. These pre-production motors use an aluminum bell, but we are looking into other materials. So because of that, whoever purchases one of these pre-production motors will get 15% off of a final production version if they want.

http://e-foamies.com/store/catalog/images/MD2003F3P_72dpi_web.jpg

I put one of these on the scale, and it read 12.1g! No false advertising here! :D Now I'm going to have to come out with a line of planes for these awesome little motors!

Here is the link to pull the trigger. http://e-foamies.com/store/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=67

Tim
http://e-foamies.com

VERY VERY NICE!!!!!!

Can't wait to hear some feed back from users.

[Micro Dan]

Mmmmmm Motors ....... (Homer like complete with drool)

:D looking very nice I'd say. My airframe is roughed out and waiting for assembly when it gets here.

Tim
Hi Tim
I guess you couldnt wait till i made more over the week end :D
thanks i hope you like it.
Dan

[tim_mellor]

Hi Tim
I guess you couldnt wait till i made more over the week end :D
thanks i hope you like it.
Dan

Hi Dan,

I have been building in anticipation :) I havn't ordered one from Tim (he must be overwhelmed with orders ;) and have me confused). Just stopped in for a drool on the better picture until my new toys arrive.

Tim

[Micro Dan]

roger that
i was working on your stuff last night when i saw Tim's post i thought you just couldnt wait. :D
dan

[3d_Crazy]

Yeah. I thought I saw someone named mellor place an order for a F3P motor... Must of been someone different :D

[3d_Crazy]

If people are wondering, MicroDAN is now going to have a distributor in Australia! Maybe Tim could post more info sometime soon.

Tim
e-foamies.com

[whopper]

Distributor in Australia??? :eek:

OHHHHH................ PICK ME!! PICK ME!! :D

Well don't keep me in suspense.....

Who? (Tim maybe???)

Where?

WHEN?????
and....
WHY NOT ME???????????? :censored: :censored: :D

[Matthew Cotten]

I hope you guys can handle all the orders, good chance I will get one? :)

[3d_Crazy]

Got yours right here Matthew! :)

[tim_mellor]

Distributor in Australia??? :eek:

OHHHHH................ PICK ME!! PICK ME!! :D

Well don't keep me in suspense.....

Who? (Tim maybe???)

Where?

WHEN?????
and....
WHY NOT ME???????????? :censored: :censored: :D
Hi Whopper,

I have the full range on order with Dan at the moment including 5 of the 2003's :) (Note Only 4 available, I need one for testing ;) for the shop).

Due to leave the USA early next week by Airmail ETA Oz early the week after.

Details of Me - Poor Kite (and aircraft) seller from the Victorian Coast
JOB Description - Plays with toys

Kite House - kitehouse@westvic.com.au to reserve your motors now :)

Tim

or was that only 3 left, perhaps my mini VTO needs one as well. So many toys, so many more I want.

[3d_Crazy]

Thats the hardest part about selling MicroDANs... you want to keep em all to yourself! :D

Tim
e-foamies.com

[Micro Dan]

i picked up some more wire from my supplier today, copper prices have moved a bit from a few months ago....if you have any fancy copper trimmings on your house you may want to hire an armed guard....wow talk about sticker shock :eek:
Dan

[tim_mellor]

You can't wipe the smiles off all the Australian mining companies at the minute all the base metals are doing well. Look on the bright side you are only playing with little motors. Maybe I can ship you copper and you can ship me motors ;)

Tim

Only a few more sleeps before the new toys arrive :)

[Mister UHU]

That matt black looks very mean.

But pink bolts !!! :eek:

That's so retro-chic, post-modern, blah, blah, blah.

Not pro flyer serious look.

[Micro Dan]

what the heck... thats not pink man!, thats RED!
Power Red!!

you may have your monitor in girl mode. :eek:
i'm sure its an accident.
switch it back before somebody notices.
:D
Dan

[mike3976]

A Red Sharpie might correct the situation!

[Matthew Cotten]

Got yours right here Matthew! :)



Thank you very much!!!! One 16" Guillows Hellcat coming up! Should be awesome!!!

[3d_Crazy]

Can't wait for some video!

[AirNerd]

what the heck... thats not pink man!, thats RED!
Power Red!!

you may have your monitor in girl mode. :eek:
i'm sure its an accident.
switch it back before somebody notices.
:D
Dan


LO Freakin L!!!

[tim_mellor]

So has anyone other than Dan or Tim flown one yet? Inquiring minds want to know :)

[MICROMAN]

Stop what your doing and buy one of these 12-gram MicroDAN motors before they are out of stock. I have one on a IFO and it is a awesome flying machine now! Don't get left in the starting gates on this one guys.
Thanks MicroDAN.

[pmackenzie]

Mine arrived today :) .
Nicely packaged, and customs somehow missed the declaration form, so no taxes :D .
12.17 grams, only 0.07 more than advertised ;).
There is a bit of extra shaft out the back that could be removed to get it down to spec.

Now the hard part - what to put it in?
Maybe I will make a new Knuffel and try for <130 grams AUW.
Any mounting suggestions? Just glue it in?
All of my foamy planes to date have had firewall mounts, but that doesn't look like the plan this time.
Pat MacKenzie

[tim_mellor]

Overweight :eek: sounds like the wires might be to long ;) I have all the bits cut out waiting for my stock to arrive :)

Depends on what you are going to use for a spine on your plane. Simply bind the bearing tube with either Kevlar or Dyneema (kite line) to the spine and use CA to hold. If you ever need to remove it simply cut off and a light rub to remove the leftover cord. DON'T Slip with the CA near the spinny bits ;)

Tim

[pmackenzie]

Shock style planes don't really have a "spine".
On the Knuffel plans he binds some thin carbon rod to the bearing tube, and then glues the rod to the fuse sides.
This sounds OK, but I would like to figure out a light weight method that does not involve gluing the motor into the plane.
What are you building?
Pat MacKenzie

[tim_mellor]

In the case of no spine substitute 1mm carbon by two and bind there was a post earlier here http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5855766&postcount=90 on how to do it. To remove simply cut the cord and it should come out.

My own profile semi scale CA-15 Kangaroo. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAC_CA-15 what can I say it's an Aussie thing :) I had a look at the 3 views I have and at some of the current F3P stuff and decided that with some small non scale tweaks would work nicely. It has a heap of side area, I am just going totally non scale on the control surfaces.

Tim

[3d_Crazy]

You must of weighed it with the o-ring! :D I think I weighed just the motor.

;)

Tim

Mine arrived today :) .
Nicely packaged, and customs somehow missed the declaration form, so no taxes :D .
12.17 grams, only 0.07 more than advertised ;).
There is a bit of extra shaft out the back that could be removed to get it down to spec.

Now the hard part - what to put it in?
Maybe I will make a new Knuffel and try for <130 grams AUW.
Any mounting suggestions? Just glue it in?
All of my foamy planes to date have had firewall mounts, but that doesn't look like the plan this time.
Pat MacKenzie

[pmackenzie]

No o-ring!

[tim_mellor]

Perhaps the weight was taken while breathing an outward sigh of appreciation at the craftsmanship or the motor ;) 3-5 knots here today and I am working on Saturday afternoon :(

[pmackenzie]

FWIW, the o ring weighs 0.20 grams, bringing the total up to 12.37. It still rounds down to 12 grams

Many things I weigh are as much as 10% heavier than advertised. Servo, receivers, other motors.
.07 grams is less than 1%.

Manufacturing variations, a bit of extra glue, a longer shaft, lots of places it could come from.
This is, after all, a pre production motor.
Pat Mackenzie

[3d_Crazy]

Or maybe your scale is off by 10%! :D

But your right, there are a lot of things that can add .2g here and there.

[pmackenzie]

I have two scales.
One is an older model Sartorius (http://www.sartorius.com/index.php). 6.1kg capacity, 0.1gram resolution, previously used for blending car paint colours. It said 12.2 grams.
The other is an iBAL 201 (http://saveonscales.com/product_i201_high_precision_lab_scale.html) 200gram, 0.01 resolution. It said 12.17.

The iBal comes with a calibrated 200 gram weight. The Sartorius says it weighs 200.1 grams, the iBAL 200.01 grams.
Pat MacKenzie

[chichisport]

Wow , have you forget to clean the test weight , I said for the extra 0.01gr :D

[pmackenzie]

.005% is close enough for me!
Pat MacKenzie

[AirNerd]

.005% is close enough for me!
Pat MacKenzie


I hope so!

[mike3976]

Very Descriminating and fine lined. Seriously, when you get down to the 100'th of a gram, I'm surprised the variations in measurment arent more broad than that reported.


Ryan, you reported you and Dan were working on a 20 gram, 25 milimeter. Any thing new to report along these lines. Would sure like to get my hands on that one!

[lightfly]

I have flown one of the prototype versions of the F3P. In fact, I think it was the first one of this type made. Mine has an aluminum bearing tube & C.F. shaft. I am using it on a mini I.F.O. w/ a 2-cell Dualsky 620mah 7.4 volt pack & a GWS EP7035 prop. Motor delivers great performance for its size & weight.
The I.F.O. performs much differently with this lighter setup. (Was using 3-cell & heavier brushless previously.) We tried this motor w/ a 6" prop & it seemed to me this was just too small & not utilizing the motor to its fullest extent. I'm
not too scientific about this stuff - the 7" prop just looks & feels better. This motor allows the mini I.F.O. to fly more up close, slow, & "in your face" manuevers. Sorry I cannot vouch for how it performs on other craft, although I think it would work & look great on any smaller (4-7 oz) plane. All the microdan motors are beutifully crafted & this one is no exception! Hope this helps.

[dawsonh]

I just received this "jewel" from Tim.

It weighed 190.7 grains on my powder measure... 12.36 gm with O-ring... 12.18 without. A snip on the long motor leads and it would be under 12 easy.

I can't wait to get it into the air.

[Matthew Cotten]

I am testing this 12 gram motor on a 30 inch light weight wing and it flies awesome!

AUW is about 6ozs and I need no more than 1/4 throttle on 3cell with the 4.5x2 thimbledrome prop I am using. Good vertical WOT.

[3d_Crazy]

oooo... somone already testing its speed abilities! :D Got a picture of your plane? I'd love to see it.

Tim

[Micro Dan]

yea i'd like to see some pics
Dan

[Matthew Cotten]

I'm very sorry I have no time for pictures.....:(

It is very fast as the 30 inch wing has a thin airfoil with many lightening holes drilled in it. It could fly well at 30ozs but it weighs under 6ozs. Totally awesome performance at slow speeds....and high.

[Matthew Cotten]

And thank you for the great performing motor...beter than anything out there......WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Micro Dan]

ooooohh yea!!!
thats what i like to hear :)
Dan

[Matthew Cotten]

This motor will fly just about anything.....totally nuts!!!!!

[3d_Crazy]

:) :) :)

[Matthew Cotten]

Must be 8oz thust using kokam 640ma 11.1v 15C pack with 4.5x4.1 APC prop. Smokin' fast and very quiet!!

[3d_Crazy]

Awesome... makes me want to put it on a little speed something.

[Mister UHU]

Must be 8oz thrust

using kokam 640ma 11.1v 15C pack
with 4.5 x 4.1 APC prop.

Smokin' fast and very quiet!!

About 224 grams thrust.

Small prop, surely it can turn something bigger ?

What RPM ?

[3d_Crazy]

Read earlier in the thread. It was designed to spin the GWS 7x3.5 HD prop on 2-cells for ~8oz of thrust for 3D/F3P planes.

But on 3-cells it can spin 4" speed props too!

Tim

[Matthew Cotten]

I might try 4 cell soon.:D

I tried the GWS 6x3 prop on 3 cell will wonderful results but could only use full throttle in a climb.....the prop warps/cavitates something horrible on the flat or drop in.

[3d_Crazy]

Just be carefull with anything over a 4" prop on 3-cells. We don't "recommend" anything over 4" with 3S and anything over 7" on 2S. But you bought it, so do what you want! ;)

Tim

[Micro Dan]

ok guys I am working towards a final design.
this one has a plastic bell which is much lighter than alum.
I took the oportunity to use some of the weight savings to increased the thickness of the flux ring to try to squeeze a bit more power out of it.

using a GWS 7x3.5
7.6V
6.2A
7.8oz thrust
total weight 11.8g including O ring (keep in mind my scale is not a high resolution unit so your weight may vary)
Dan :D

[Micro Dan]

I might try 4 cell soon.:D

I tried the GWS 6x3 prop on 3 cell will wonderful results but could only use full throttle in a climb.....the prop warps/cavitates something horrible on the flat or drop in.

man yea you got some brass :cool:
i like to break stuff too.
Dan

[mike3976]

Must be that American Apple Pie Hot Rod Mentality!

[Micro Dan]

yup... never really know where the limit is till ya break it :eek:
I have a very clear idea of the limit to my flying skills :D
Dan

[Matthew Cotten]

Cotten the distroyer......no, really, with the 3cell set up on my 30" wing the stator shows no heat to my finger.
Totally awesome motor!!!

[Littlescreamers]

Plastic? MMMMMM

Scott

[Micro Dan]

easy now Scotty.... we aint copyin ya.... just lookin for somethin lighter than CF
Dan ;)

[Littlescreamers]

No problem here:D

Scott

[Micro Dan]

No problem here:D

Scott
Roger that...
i dont want to step on a toe, may need your help one day :D
Dan

[Matthew Cotten]

I think Scott is being nice and throwing you a hint there Dan. Keep it simple they say right Scott? Well, not always with you.....or Dan....:D
Your motors really do perform well you guys!! But than you know that.....:)

[Mister UHU]

never really know where the limit is till ya break it :eek:



Also known as : "testing"

[AirNerd]

Anybody got a vid with this tiny guy in action???

[Micro Dan]

yea i would like to see a vid also.
how bout it, somebody got time to spare?
Dan

[power]

I really like the 12 gram weight of this motor. However... this motor and several others in the same sub 20 gram class (most are in Germany) still need a way to mount them on the plane. This ends up costing several grams negating the work it took to get the motor so light in the first place. This is my design that I have been using for yrs. While it is a bit more complex there are a ton of machines out there with "live" tooling that could pump these out with ease. Heck, some one could have these injection molded :cool: .This system allows mounting with just two small strips of Blenderm. I guess you could just glue the rods on but it is not needed. My motor weighs 18 grams "Mounted"

I might be a little biased because it is my design, but why have we not seen anything like this being produced?? That little 12 grm job would look cool with a mount like this and I bet it would only be 15 grams mounted ;)


Mike


Mike

[Micro Dan]

Mike
nice job!
I like it... may I copy it?
I would like to use plastic.
same old thing with manufacturing, it costs $100 to make one or fifty.
I got lots of $100s tied up in stuff that would not sell.
I do like your idea though.
Dan

[dawsonh]

This is what I am using. It is a design I saw in the Manta thread.

The 1/32 ply/balsa/1/32 ply motor mount, hardware and three 3.25 carbon rods came out around four grams. It is probably overkill for F3P, but I am not going for ultimate weight reduction... on this model. I like being able to make thrust adjustments.

[fwilly]

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5855766&postcount=90

Carbon flat rod kevlar wrapped to a crabon bearing tube. Adds less than a gram.

[power]

Mike
nice job!
I like it... may I copy it?
I would like to use plastic.
same old thing with manufacturing, it costs $100 to make one or fifty.
I got lots of $100s tied up in stuff that would not sell.
I do like your idea though.
Dan

Thanks Dan, feel free to copy anything about the design. Heck, I would probably buy them instead of make them if they were for sale ;) . I do have access to all the machines I need to make them (for my personal use) but they do take a fair amount of time to produce and I am getting lazier as I get older :rolleyes:

fwilly, even though it only adds less than a gram, wouldn't it be nice to just tape it on and go :) . Oh, and another beauty of this mount is, when you smack it into a wall, ground, whatever, and the carbon rods break, you just crack the set screws and add another set of rods. :cool:

Mike

[fwilly]

Mine can also mount with tape. I outlined the tape in blue.

[power]

Mine can also mount with tape. I outlined the tape in blue.


Yup, I saw the tape. I was simply saying that you would not have to lash the kevlar and rod to the mount. There I go again, getting lazy :) I did up my very first CDR conversion just like you have posted, and thats what pressed me to make my mount.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the kevlar wrap method, It works very well and it really is not that hard to do. I just thought that by now someone would have come up with a nice clean mount for the 15 gram class motors that would eliminate the lashing. I sure do appreciate not having to clean glue off the tube when I pile one up and break the rods.

I really like the looks of the 12 gram Microdan motor, I will probably give one a go. I just would prefer not to glue the rods to the tube.

Mike

[fwilly]

I've never broken a flat rod. Some acetone will help soften up the old glue when you do have to clean it off.

I can be lazy too, but I'll go to much greater extremes to save weight.

[pmackenzie]

I've never broken a flat rod. Some acetone will help soften up the old glue when you do have to clean it off.

I can be lazy too, but I'll go to much greater extremes to save weight.

The bearing tube on mine is some sort of transparent amber coloured plastic. Is it safe to use solvents on it?

Mike, is your mount integral to the bearing tube, or clamped on somehow?
Pat MacKenzie

[power]

The bearing tube on mine is some sort of transparent amber coloured plastic. Is it safe to use solvents on it?

Mike, is your mount integral to the bearing tube, or clamped on somehow?
Pat MacKenzie


Pat, I would have the same concern about the solvents/plastic compatability.

The mount is machined out of solid 6262 T9 aluminum barstock. It is One piece.


Mike

[Micro Dan]

The bearing tube on mine is some sort of transparent amber coloured plastic. Is it safe to use solvents on it?

Mike, is your mount integral to the bearing tube, or clamped on somehow?
Pat MacKenzie
Pat
you should be ok with common solvents as i have not found one yet that will harm it.
the plastic i use is common for tools in the medical industry its properties are very similar to polycarbonate but will withstand higher temp.
Dan

[power]

I don't want to hijack this thread, but I would like to push Dan a bit to make the mounts I mentioned earlier ;) . I decided to get off my lazy chair and take the same size stator that he used (20mm x 3mm) and throw on a quick 12T and modify the can and shorten the shaft and mount to the minimum. I got a pleasant surprise :) Dan, this is with the hardened steel shaft and a steel can. Just think what yours could weigh :cool: Bet they would be really light if they were plastic ;)

Here are a few shots ready to tape on. I have no idea what kind of numbers I will see at the prop I just did this to see if I could match Dan's weight. I am sure his motor will have better numbers with the curved mags.

Mike

[Micro Dan]

cool!
i have way more copper on mine thats why i use the plastics and carbon fiber otherwise my motor would be several grams heavier.
Dan

[power]

I see, you must not have used 24 ga wire. 12T of 24 ga fills her up pretty full, I could of probably got a little more on but I want to see where I am at for amps.


Mike

[Micro Dan]

you will have plenty of rpm with 12T
Dan

[3d_Crazy]

I have a good idea for a mount for 3mm shocky planes. I'll send you an e-mail Dan.

Tim

[Micro Dan]

roger roger

[windface]

I be looking for two motors 20mm for the storm launcher to use with a very light set up. the prop to use neeed to be 4" or less dia. the auw will be 8oz.or - .I want to loud the motors to 50w each. any coment are well come.

[3d_Crazy]

Any CDROM motor should work. For ultimate lightness two of these 12g motors might work, depends on the weight of the SL. What is the stock weigh on the SL?

Tim

[windface]

Any CDROM motor should work. For ultimate lightness two of these 12g motors might work, depends on the weight of the SL. What is the stock weigh on the SL?

Tim
It is 9.6oz (RTF) with stock electroninc and cell but it can be down to 8 or less ease.

[3d_Crazy]

Well, if I'm right about this.... if each 12g motor produces close to 8oz of thrust, and you have 2 of them on the SL, then you should have close to 16oz of thrust which should be close to 2:1 thrust ratio if it weighed ~8oz.

Ernest is my friend (the co-designer of the Storm Launcher), and I've seen his CDROM powered version and it was sick (in a good way). I think there is some video of it in one of the other threads.

Anways, if you are looking for the lightest setup, two 12g MicroDAN 2003-F3P motors would probably be the lightest way to go. If you just want something that will work, check out the other storm launcher threads and see what they recommend.

Tim

[windface]

Ok. thank :)

[tim_mellor]

:D Awesome motor Dan,

having trouble wiping smile from my face after test flying this afternoon :) Motor was fitted to a Mini VTO (7x3.5 2S300 cells) and it now sparkles while before was dull. Not F3P I know but that airframe is under construction. Raining outside now or I would still be playing :(

Tim

[Micro Dan]

Tim
glad you like it :D
we put a lot of work into developing this one.
Dan

[tim_mellor]

Hi Dan,

have you done any testing on single cell LiPo's with the 2003?

Tim

[Micro Dan]

I have not.

[Micro Dan]

easy to do and i may try it later today

[tim_mellor]

I would do it myself, but I don't have a single cell controller YET ;) 7x6 or 8x6 props maybe for single cell?

Tim

[Micro Dan]

have you sampled the other motors yet?
the 2510 is a real power house.
or the speed motor? thats my favorite.

[tim_mellor]

Funny you should mention that as our School Holidays finished today

I finally found time to convert my Reach Whirlwind to 2510 power. 10x5 prop on 3S1050 on a 350g plane is awesome far better than the stock geared brushless and 4A less draw. It must have about 2.5-1 Power to weight :D

The 2505 Speed is sitting in the loft waiting for one of E-foamies Speedcat's to get built so later this week.

All I need to complete the set then is to try a standard 2505 on my Radix Bipe. Not to sure on this one as it's fairly big but the motor change will save me 10g which will help.

Tim

[Micro Dan]

I am very happy that you are enjoying my work, that makes me proud.
I am winding 20/03's like a mad man, can't do more than three at a sitting.
have to get up and move around for a while or i will go nutty.
Dan