Is there anything wrong with this diagram

[rcsubs]

Hello All,

This is a wiring diagram used to control a 12V water pump and a Kip solenoid.
The problem is when I hook the ground wires to the relay it seems to be
shorting out causing some very hot wires and smoke.
The SES-3 is an electronic switch designed to work as an on/off switch.
The system has to float switches that send a signal to the relay when the
ballast tank is empty and half full.....

Can someone correct my mistake?

Darrell :confused:

[AndyOne]

Darrell,

Where there's smoke there's a short which may be due to a relay or switch being in the wrong position or connected by the wrong contacts if it is a change over type. Your diagram isn't too clear to me as this isn't the way I'd draw it so I suggest you connect a 12v bulb in series with the battery and connect it up the way the short happens. This way the bulb will light but you won't get smoke. Then by process of elimination disconnect various parts of the circuit until the light goes out (or dims if one of a pump or relay is trying to activate) then you have found the short.

Andy.

[Acetronics]

YES !!!

Center low ... plus and minus shorted :eek: !!!

Not the Indians attacking ... :D

Alain

[Malc C]

You beat me too it !

[Dan Baldwin]

I think that what you intended was for the power to the pump to be reversed when you switch from fill to empty. I think this is what you were looking for.

Dan

[rcsubs]

Hello All,

Thank you Dan and Malc for correcting my wiring diagram.
After looking at the diagram I realize that I forgot to add a wire.
On the SES-3 there is a ground wire connection that is in between the two
positive battery connection. The Normally Open Solenoid stays open until the
ballast tank has been filled, then when the pump is shut off power is supplied
to the solenoid closing it and holding the water in the tank.In the water control
part of this operation the solenoid is placed between the pump and the tank.
The nice thing about this setup is if there is a loss of power the solenoid opens
and the water is forced out by the compressed air in the ballast tank.

Since everyone can see that I am not and expert at wiring electronics, I have another
question," Is the solenoid wired correctly?" It needs to stay open until the tank has been filled
and when the pump is shut off,power is applied to the solenoid closing it.

Dan, what program did you use to circle the error and then correct my wiring diagram?? It looks like a program that I could use.....

Thanks everyone for your help,
Darrell :) :o

[Malc C]

Darrell,

I simply used paint to draw a circle around the area - nothing fancy ;)

From the limited results google through up, the SES is simply a two stage switch from one RC channel. Now its not clear if that is a two stage switch meaning its off or on as would be the case in a normal switch, or if its a three step, ie 1ms pulse does nothing, less than 1.5ms but less than 1.7ms turns on one channel, 1.7ms to 2ms turns on the other. Without any data sheet for this module its hard to advise on the correct function. - It might be worth posting on the RC Sub section of RC groups to see if anyone there has used this device and how they wired it.

Its hard to advise on how to wire the solenoid as the device is controlled by a micro controller and thus its not really a direct connection between the solenoid and the pumps. The PIC chip will determin what to turn on and off from the inputs it gets from the sensors telling it when tanks are full, or empty.

Sorry I can't shed any further help on your problem

EDIT:

Just found this on the SES-II so I guess the SES-III is just an updated version

The SES - II Electronic Switch will control 2 separate on/off functions from one channel. Capable of 8 amps per output continuous load (more with heatsink). Each output can be configured as either latching or momentary. Microprocessor technology coupled with low on-resistance Mosfets results in glitch free operation and very low voltage drop. Ideal for lights, horn, sound systems, radar motors, etc. Size 1 1/2" x 1 1/2" x 3/4".
Building a submarine? SES - II is ideal for a solenoid-type ballast system and it also includes a built-in failsafe to automatically blow ballast if signal is lost!

Can you post any datasheet / manual details regarding the config.

Edit (agian !):

Just found the UK distributors site ( http://www.rcmodelsubs.com ) which has the ver III

http://www.rcmodelsubs.com/acatalog/SES-3.JPG

However it doesn't help much. I would assume that the three termials top right are the connections to the battery and possibly a switched output (using common ground ?)

I assume what you want to do is to throw a switch on the TX, the valve opens and water is pumped into the ballast tank. Then whan the sub reaches the depth required, the switch on the tx is closed, solenoid shuts and pump stops. If you filled the tanks to the point the sensor turns off the pump, and closes the solenoid then surely the sub sould just sink to the bottom, so how could you tell the device to empty or fill the tank, unless you used a proportional channel rather than a switch one ??

[rcsubs]

Hi Malc,

The SES-3 can be setup a couple of ways.
The first is when you move the RC joystick to activate the SES-3, the device that the SES-3 has turned on will stay on as long as the joystick is held in the on position for that device.
The second method is, you move the joystick to activate the device and let the joystick return to center, the activated device will continue to run until the joystick is moved in the same direction again.

The three screws in the top right are the wire connector locations, the center is for the battery negative,the two outside terminals are the positive wire connectors for the devices the SES-3 controls.

The Kip solenoid is a normally open solenoid and it stays open until voltage is applied, then it closes.

Steps in operation:
1) SES-3 applies power to the water pump
2) water is pumped into the sealed ballast tank until the tank is half full
3) power is applied to the solenoid closing the solenoid and holding water in the ballast tank.
4) to empty the ballast tank the pump runs in the other direction to empty the tank and power is removed from the solenoid allowing it to open.

With the water under pressure and the pump running to empty the tank the empty cycle should be rather fast. With this setup I will have a built in failsafe,if there is a loss of power the solenoid will open and the compressed air will force the water out. :)

I am working on two areas tonight,re-inforcing my ballast tank end sections and wiring up my relays,solenoid and pump. The ballast tank will take most of the night.

I scan the text document for the SES-3 and my relay package back and attached to this message. This explains the SES-3 operation in detail.

Darrell

[Dan Baldwin]

Hello All,

Thank you Dan and Malc for correcting my wiring diagram.
After looking at the diagram I realize that I forgot to add a wire.
On the SES-3 there is a ground wire connection that is in between the two
positive battery connection. The Normally Open Solenoid stays open until the
ballast tank has been filled, then when the pump is shut off power is supplied
to the solenoid closing it and holding the water in the tank.In the water control
part of this operation the solenoid is placed between the pump and the tank.
The nice thing about this setup is if there is a loss of power the solenoid opens
and the water is forced out by the compressed air in the ballast tank.

Since everyone can see that I am not and expert at wiring electronics, I have another
question," Is the solenoid wired correctly?" It needs to stay open until the tank has been filled
and when the pump is shut off,power is applied to the solenoid closing it.

Dan, what program did you use to circle the error and then correct my wiring diagram?? It looks like a program that I could use.....

Thanks everyone for your help,
Darrell :) :o

Darrell

I used Paint Shop Pro to modify your drawing.

Dan

[Malc C]

Looking at the data sheet / instructions it would appear that the actual switching is done on the ground (BATT neg) line. Why do you need to use relays in the CCt. The SES claims a continious current rating of 4 amp, and i would of though that would be enough to drive the solenoid direct, or are you running the pump and solenoid off of one relay, so that when you activate the FILL output of the SES it closes the relay, and thus operates both solenoid and pump. I assume the float suggested in your schematic is a simple normally closed switch so that it goes open cct when the tank is full and thus cuts power to the relay and switching off the pump and locking the water in the tank. However this raises a further issue, the SES will have to be in momentary mode rather than latching, as it would otherwise still be driving the FILL relay until it received a further stick input.

Let us know how you get on

[rcsubs]

Hi Malc,

I am using the 2 floats and the relay to control and protect the water pump, since the pump is a gear drive I do not want it to run dry. The floats have two wires and are designed to be installed inverted, when the float is on it's seat resistance is zero, one float is installed inverted and the other installed so the float is on it's seat.

I thought that I would need a relay because I need to reverse the polarity on the pump to empty the ballast tank.

The solenoid is open until power is applied and then it shuts holding the water in the tank.

So during the fill operation the water pump is running,power to the solenoid is off. When the ballast tank is filled about half way power to the pump is turned off and power is applied to the solenoid closing it holding the water in.

Then to empty the tank, power is removed from the solenoid and reverse polarity power is applied to the pump to pump the water out.

In operation to empty the ballast tank, the pump may not be needed to empty the ballast tank if there is enough air pressure in the ballast tank to force the water out.

I hope that I have not left anything out of my discription???? :confused:

Thank you for your help,

Darrell

P.S.
I hope to have my sub in the water by July,if all works out,I will try to post some photos. My sub is a scratch made Gato sub in a 1/57 scale,5'6" long fiberglass hull. I will also be making a brass etched deck for this sub,I am waiting on all the materials that I will need to do the work, UPS is somewhere with my order........... :rolleyes: