AVA vs. Bubble Dancer

[POF]

Now that AVA and Bubble Dance are discussed at this forum I wonder what the difference between the two gliders is. Is it correct that AVA is just Vladimir’s/Kennedy’s version of Bubble Dancer or is there more to it?

Thanks in advance
Peter

[neonbutterfly]

hi peter...here is my opinion....the bubble dancer is the original plane designed by mark drela and offered thru the charles river club site......this is a build your own plane and extremely well designed and laid out....mark did not miss a thing in designing this plane......my thanks goes out to mark for his advancement of soaring airfoils. spar design etc.....here is a link to the bubble dancer on the charles river site:

http://www.charlesriverrc.org/articles/bubbledancer/markdrela-bubbledancer-3m.htm

the ava is a commercial arf based on the bubble dancer design....i have seen these planes and the craftsmanship is excellent......

since i have not flown my bubble dancer yet, that will happen on sunday.....i can't compare the flight characteristics....i assume both are excellent thermal planes etc.....

but being a builder i opted to "build my own" aquiring the materials from many different sources.....polecataero is also offering a bubble dancer kit......you may want to check that out also...

bob

happy bubble dancer owner :D

[POF]

Hi Bob.

Does that mean that you have tried an AVA and will be able to compare soon?

I already have a Bubble Dancer from Polecataero on the way to me :)

Good luck on sunday!

Peter
Soon to be happy Bubble Dancer owner :D

[rdwoebke]

Now that AVA and Bubble Dance are discussed at this forum I wonder what the difference between the two gliders is. Is it correct that AVA is just Vladimir’s/Kennedy’s version of Bubble Dancer or is there more to it?

Thanks in advance
Peter

Peter,

I have not flown an Ava, but have owned a BD. They appear to fly similarly. The construction is a good bit different in a number of areas. You will be happy with your EZBD kit, I suspect.

I'm building a stretched 2 metera Aegea wing right now, and am flip flopping on if I should build a 3 meter Aegea ish next season or a Bubble Dancer.

Ryan

[neonbutterfly]

sorry hit the wrong button....

bob :confused:

[neonbutterfly]

hi peter.....well sunday is the big day for the maiden flights and i'm a little nervous and have a few butterflies!!!!!.....LOL...i'm sure everything will go well.....i have spent a lot of time on the finer details of setting up the plane......i also built an allegro two meter with an electric motor and have flown it and it is supereb.......i know the BD will fly just as well.........

i will definitely report back on the first flights......may i suggest a build thread on the ez bd kit.....i am curious as to the spar design on the kit......

good luck on your build...

bob :rolleyes:

[rdwoebke]

Bob,

The Bubble Dancer flies differently than the Allegro. I would suggest it is a more "speedy gas bag" feeling. Where as the Allegro feels really nimble/racey. Kind of hard to explain. Dr. D. once described it. The BD will feel like a bigger plane though.

The good thing is they can usually work the same kind of air and seem to be comprable designs. That is one of the reasons I enjoyed timing for an Ava pilot at a contest last weekend. I was flying the Allegro and we flew back to back rounds so I could really advise him what was working and what could be worked. Worked out well, I think although neither of us made it up to the trophies (he placed a decent amount higher than I did).

Ryan

[schrederman]

I've flown both, owned niether... From my impressions, the Bubble dancer is the better model. YMMV... Hats off to Mark Drela... and that's really quite the understatement.

Jack Womack

[old dodger]

I also have a EZ BD on the way and wondering how it compares to the AVA.
there are several AVA's in the local area so wanting to know what the
chalenge will be.

Ryan- you mentioned your thinking about building a 3mtr Aegea. Ive got Pole Cat
Aero's Thermal Dancer. Flew it last year (about 3/4 of the contest season). It is
3 mtr- scaled down version of the Supra. I was afraid to glorify it on the net as
others might get one and take away my edge. For me (not flying for last 20yrs)
it did everything be its self. Went from good competitor flyer to upper expert flyer.
Check it out (unless you realy like to role your own).

Chris Brundege

[rdwoebke]

Ryan- you mentioned your thinking about building a 3mtr Aegea. Ive got Pole Cat
Aero's Thermal Dancer. Flew it last year (about 3/4 of the contest season). It is
3 mtr- scaled down version of the Supra.


I have seen one fly. It looks quite good. A guy in the Muncie club has one. As always, the Pole Cat quality is good stuff.


Check it out (unless you realy like to role your own).


My means right now kind of dictate that I have to scratch build stuff. I enjoy building, so that works out well.

Ryan

[GNieuwoudt]

I have built the BD from scratch and had many building errors. Even so I competed more than 2 years now with it and it flies great. I saw the AVA fly with my BD and it is a similar class plane. Due to the fact it is made in factory by specialists it is built beter and my be lighter than scratch builds. I have built the composite wings as well for the BD which gave it better penetration.

To answer Ryan , The Aegea wing is a totally different glider and can not be compared to a BD. Look also at the Supra planform. This is an awsome glider and you will not want to go back.

Cheers
Gert

[rdwoebke]

To answer Ryan , The Aegea wing is a totally different glider and can not be compared to a BD. Look also at the Supra planform. This is an awsome glider and you will not want to go back.


Much of the reason I am flip flopping on building a 3 meter Aegea ish plane next winter or another BD is cost. I'm on a soaring budget, and the BD would be less costly to build and equip (3 servos versus 6).

Examples of such things are it seems the 3 meter Aegea and Supra have JR digital servos reccomended by Dr. D. where as he suggests the JR analogs (and a hitech analog for spoiler).

That, and I am not sure I will be a good "full house" flyer. I'll see how well it works out for me in a few weeks when I have that 2 meter Aegea ish wing complete.

So I guess we will see. :)

Ryan

[atjurhs]

I'm wondering why no one has mentioned the Danny in this thread? Does it not compare with the BD or AVA?

[rdwoebke]

I'm wondering why no one has mentioned the Danny in this thread? Does it not compare with the BD or AVA?

It probably does. The Ava was first on the ARF scene, so it gets most of the press. Based on the picture here http://www.hobbyclub.com/Danny-RES.htm It is probably comparable to the Ava to a large degree and to the BD in much of the flight charicteristics.

Just pick a horse, and ride it! :)

Ryan

[GNieuwoudt]

Much of the reason I am flip flopping on building a 3 meter Aegea ish plane next winter or another BD is cost. I'm on a soaring budget, and the BD would be less costly to build and equip (3 servos versus 6).

Examples of such things are it seems the 3 meter Aegea and Supra have JR digital servos reccomended by Dr. D. where as he suggests the JR analogs (and a hitech analog for spoiler).

That, and I am not sure I will be a good "full house" flyer. I'll see how well it works out for me in a few weeks when I have that 2 meter Aegea ish wing complete.

So I guess we will see. :)

Ryan

It is not realy required to install the expensive servos, but would be nice. I am also a somewhat challenged pilot, but I found the Supra fly extremely easy and have no tip stalls on me even if I fly it as slow as the BD. I use the JR 9303 and have only Launch preset as many switches and tasks just complicate the flying more. The Supra was my first full house glider and I still need to learn a lot.

Cheers
Gert

[thelocust]

I flew my EZBD #1 against an AVA and a Super AVA (the 147" version) this weekend, and I think the EZBD faired very well. I managed to get one of my LSF Level IV 1-hour flights! I outclimbed the AVA and Super AVA on a number of occassions in some really hard-scrabble lift. None of us are RES geniuses, tho', so do take into account the wildly variable "pilot error" factor.

I think my EZBD handles a hard launch better than the AVA or Super AVA. The spar system appears more robust, and there is significantly less wing bend on launch. Of course a more robust spar system means a heavier wing, but it beats blowing off a wingtip or something.

From personal inspection, the trailing edges on the AVAs are less substantial than the BD, but made from carbon fiber. The BD (and the EZBD) uses balsa for the trailing edge. The AVA has no sag-strips between the ribs. The D-tube on the AVA does not go back quite as far as the BD. I would assume that those things would make for a stiffer wing and a wing that is less susceptible to torsional forces (twisting your wing on launch, etc), but at the same time increases the weight of the wing.

http://kennedycomposites.com/images/ava/avabig1.jpg - AVA

http://www.polecataero.com/uploads/ezbd/benezbd.jpg - EZBD

Either ship is an excellent ship, and the AVA has a contest-proven history. The BD, I think, would have a similar history if it didn't take so long to produce! Hence, the EZBD.

Disclaimer: I built the first EZBD, so I might be a little biased towards it.

[rdwoebke]

None of us are RES geniuses, tho', so do take into account the wildly variable "pilot error" factor.



Ben,

Neat story. Thanks for sharing. I got my 2nd 1 hour with my Allegro Lite. I'm sure you will get your 2nd 1 hour (or perhaps you will 4 hour slope it) soon enough.

I'm not sure what makes a person an RES genius or not, but I am sure you are a plenty competent pilot.

Ryan

[atjurhs]

Does anyone know how the Danny RES would handle hard launches, ie. any idea as to its wing strength, more AVA-like or more EZBD-like?

Also, what about build quality, does it match the AVA's?

BTW, there is a 3.2m Danny RES, which makes it the same size as the AVA, so at least that much is comparable.

[carrinsr]

IMHO, and notwithstanding the excellent characteristics of the Bubble Dancer and the Danny, I've yet see a RES sailplane that will launch higher and thermal as well as the AVA or Super AVA. I've owned four...have an AVA E and a Super AVA that I fly regularly...both for TD only. So there you go...I'm like thelocust (see his post above)...a tad bit biased. :) -- DC

[ClayH]

Larry Jolly told me that the Danny penetrates better than the Ava, giving it a bit more range. I own an Ava and tell my flying buddies that I consider flying it as cheating - it's very hard to fly it off my highstart and not get at least a 10 minute flight , in fact I think it's only happened once. I've handlaunched it several times into a 20 minute flight. My ava normally flies at 36 ounces. Last week I put 5 ounces of ballast in and now it flies a bit faster and with more authority. I really love that plane. Haven't flown the BD or Danny so I can't comment on them. Also, I'm very cautious about making comparisons of two different planes going up at different rates in the same thermal. With the high quality design of these planes, pilot skill and setup will be much bigger factors in determining who goes up faster.

I used to race pylon planes, now I fly RES. I must be getting old.

Clay

[Jurgen]

I used to race pylon planes, now I fly RES. I must be getting old.Nope, you're getting wise ;)