The destruction of PT Boats

[IWC]

I did not know, until recently, that the Dept of Navy destroyed all 121 PT Boats after the war. How did the PT boats get to the war zone in the Philipines Islands?
Please help with the history lesson. Thanks

[patmat2350]

Many more than 121 PTs were built, though I'm not sure how many were destroyed in the big burns at Samar in the Philippines. US WW2 PT numbers started at PT-20, and ran into the high 600's, though some went to Russia and the UK.

PTs were usually shipped as deck cargo, see for example photos at my site:
http://www.geocities.com/y2patmat/pt/cradle/cradle.htm

Pat Matthews

[IWC]

Thanks for the info.

[CG Bob]

The US Navy used about 500 PT boats during the war. One source (http://www.ptboats.org/20-06-05-boatdata-002.html) says 531 boats, and gives some info on the fate of the boats.

[jeepers1940]

Pat, I have wondered for many years now if any artifacts - any parts - of the PT boats in Bulkeley's Squadron 3, the Expendables, are purported to survive. Also, the books that I have read say that PT-41 was transported overland to serve the army as a courier boat on Lake Lanao. I have never read what its ultimate fate was. Would it have been destroyed to avoid its capture by the Japanese? Have you ever read specific information on this? Thanks -
Bill

[patmat2350]

I read that it was burned before making it to the lake, "to avoid capture".
Never heard of any surviving bits from RON3.
Pat

[Ray Farina]

Captain Schmann runs a converted PT boat from elco which he uses for do Dolphin and Whale watching in Southern Rio Grande in Cape May , New Jersey. I have also been told that their are either PT boats or mine sweepers in the navy yard in Southern Phila. in Penna. My recorders show that Ventnor Boat Company made mine sweeping boats during World War II and were building them in Southern New Jersey. I have a Ventnor, built in 1963 and was told that their are still some Ventnor Boats in the navy yard in Phila., Pa. The Ventnor mine sweeper were built of plywood. Their was a converted PT boat that ran off Ocean City, N,J. and was ticked for doing over 100 M.P.H. in the ocean.

[Holycow]

I've also seen what appears to be a PT converted into a deep sea fishing boat in Tavernier (in the Florida keys). I'll snap a pic the next time I'm passing by and you guys can begin the debate.
--jeff

[patmat2350]

here's a postcard, allegedly PT-139, I think in New Jersey?

[patmat2350]

and another p'card, 1960, Wildwood NJ

[Ray Farina]

The picture just above in patmat2350 is the one I was refering to as Capt. Schmann Dolphin And Whale Watching Trip. It definitly is an Elco as I questioned as to who made the boat and what model was it.

[jeepers1940]

You wonder what powers it now, how many screws, etc.

[tim slocum]

I monitor several "boats for sale"type site on the web and have seen a few ex-PT's for sale.None of these were in origanal condition or even close to orginal.Ive also seen a RN WW2 PT for sale.Several months back I saw an RN admirals launch that was reportedly off a WW2 battleship,although I cant remember which one.

[Trisquire]

I'd much rather take a cruise in something that looks and performs authentically.

Tom.

[jeepers1940]

Me too.

[Aerominded]

Me three! but remember, these boats, along with a lot of WWII surplus were cheap and the people who bought them bought them to put to work to make money- not for nostalgia... :)

[Ray Farina]

I believe that the original PT Boats wetre powered by 2 - 12 cyclinder Packard with a super charge engine.

[johnmca72]

I believe that the original PT Boats wetre powered by 2 - 12 cyclinder Packard with a super charge engine.

3 @ Packard 4M-2500 supercharged V-12 engines.

JM

[Trisquire]

Someone must have restored one in fairly original condition.

[patmat2350]

One Higgins running in Portland, a static Higgins (maybe runnable?) in Texas, and a static Higgins and Elco 80 at Fall River MA.

Pat Matthews

[escipion]

Hello!!!!
I think you'll find this book very interesting

Pt Boats at War: World War II to Vietnam by Norman Polmar, Samuel Loring Morison

Have a nice day
Escipion

[jeep4grog]

Don't forget "PT Bob" in Catalina Island in Ca

[GWFAMI]

After WWII, my Dad, a marine, was at the navy yard where the government was selling PT's for $1,000 to $1,500 (I don't remember which). He had the money, but they wouldn't let him buy one since he was only 18.

[hookpilot]

After researching my scratch-built 60" Vosper MTB, I found out that Vosper gave plans to the US where a bunch, maybe 25 boats, were built on the east coast and shipped to Russia under Lend-Lease. As a condition of acceptance, all the Russian MTBs had to be destroyed at war's end. If you've ever seen the old Revell 1/72 scale Vosper MTB plastic kit, that is exactly what was built in the US and sent to Russia: two 21" torpedoes, 1 Orelakon 20mm anti-aircraft gun, 2, twin .50cal Browning machine guns and 4 depth-charges. The boats were 73 feet long and powered by 3 Packard 4M-2500 engines, 1500hp each. Too bad one didn't survive in its original wartime trim.

[gelcoatman]

If any one still reads this thread pt boats were manufactured by three boat yards.Elco the electric boat company..higgins who contracted a flatt bottom boat landing craft for the navy as well,and huckins yaughts who engineered a quaduraconical hull design used in early rum runners and i think it was also used in the huckins Pt boat design.I cant begin to explain what quadra conical hull design is cause i barely understand it my self.as for the count of boats produced elco produced 390 pt boats higgins produced 190 and huckins produced 18 for ww2 there were other ptf boats producuced by the vosper boat building company but i am not sure when and how many and there was also another company who produced them for the vietnam war effort there is one currently for sale titled pt boat number 8 aparently the only aluminum boat the navy ever built i think this is either a hoaks or one of the most rare historical naval artifacts 2 exsist it has 2 detroit 12v 71 engines
instead of the three V12 supercharged packard engines i love these boats as i think they were the first large mass producuced speed boats over 35 feet these massive boats upto 80 ft in length reached a speed of 45 knots max weighed 50 tons and had 4500 horsepower and used v-drives for two of the three motors....by the way the asking price for the pt-8 was 1 million dolars...

[Greg_Vincent]

I happen to live in Jacksonville, FL. Huckins is still in business here and I drive by it often! Although, I sure can't afford any of their boats. :p Their website (http://www.huckinsyacht.com/) has a short section on their involvement in building the PT boats. You can also order PT boat line drawings through their store, on the "Gallery" page (or you will be able to soon, they are listed as "not yet available"). And you can buy a mermaid plaque for only $250 :eek: .

They have produced some very nice looking yachts. I love the picture on their "Custom Construction" page. If I ever get into scratchbuilding, these (along with their PT boats of course) would make interesting subjects with a local flavor.

[jeepers1940]

"If any one still reads this thread..."
Are you kiddin'? ANYthing about PT boats is a must read. :)

The Huckins PTs had a unique look about them. A modeler who wants to have an authentic PT that is different from the usually seen Elcos and Higgins could model a Huckins and probably have the only one on the pond.

[ptjim]

The photo above is not the Sightseer now in the hands of Ronald Sinn. Sightseer was Elco PT-486 of Squardon 4 the training squadron. She had a short term in Squadron 33 then was transferred to Ron-4. I have film of 486 and others heading up the Hudson to Navy Day at Navy Pier on Chicago back in 45. I do know Sinn and Schumann also they are good men. The photo above is a converted Crashboat (ASR) looks to be an 85 or 83 footer. I was out on 486 prior to Schumann trading boats with Sinn whose father originaly bought PT-486 and the PT-587 as surplus for $1,005.00 he showed me the Bill of Sale.

PT-139 ran out of Ocean City MD as a tour boat (The Question Mark). I was told that in the late 70's (rough time frame) she was stripped and sank to be part of an artificial reef off the coast. She was in great original condition when this was done. Who knew.

The Sinn family was big into the tour boat buisness (Sinn's Dock Wildwood NJ) and had a nack for buying surplus boats from the Navy back in the day. They owened the 728, C-3728 (large 94 foot ASR built by Huron-Eddy Shipyard in 53) 587, 486 and other crash boats. I guess they owned the crash boats used in the 1963 film PT-109 with Cliff Roberts. Sinn has plan's to place one of the bridge houses retained from the movie on to the 486 and run her as The Mighty 109 much like his father did years back.

That is all I know!

[ptjim]

sorry one more post guy's
I have tons of pic's of the remaining PT's. As of recent my boat PT-761, was cut up shortly after transfer of owenership, 308 (Higgins) was cut up and PT-695 (Her twin was PT-694 a Russian Lend Lease We knew her as PT-73 McHales Navy) aka PT-Joe was also cut up
728, 724 are all the remain of the Vospers, 617 (fall River) 615 Tar baby IV last known in Tuckahoe NJ, PT-48 mid state Florida, and PT-486 (Sinn in NJ) are all that remain of the Elco series. PT-59 remains may still be at the bottom of the eat river most of her is burned from the watrer line up. PT309 (Nimits static) PT-305 (now with D-Day Museum), PT-796 (Fall River),PT-658 (running in Oregon on Packard's), PT-659 (barely allive), PT-657 (aka Malihini still running in san Diego as a fishing charter), PT-459 (severly chopped in NY somewhere) are all that remain of the Higgins PT's.
That is about it. I learned my lesson on trying to restore a real one. It hurt!
e-mail me I can share pics when I get a minute.

[norgale]

Here are a couple of pictures of a PT boat that was converted to a luxury yacht after the war. The boat was called the MOBY DICK when I knew it and it ,with the owner, spent summers at Wychmere Harbor at Harwichport on Cape Cod in the late fifties and early sixties. I worked at the Snow INN at Wytchmere Harbor during the summer of 1960 and she was there then.
She was the property of a PT boat club in Jacksonvill,Fl. when these pictures were taken. They could not raise the funds to do the work so she was stripped and destroyed shortly after these pictures were taken about a year and a half ago.. I have another picture of her in her full dress which I will post if I can find it. I got the info above from the PT Boats National HQ of which I am a supporting member.

[norgale]

Here are two more pics that you may like.

[ptjim]

Thats PT-761. I couldn't raise the money for her either.

[ptjim]

matter of fact you got the bottom two pics off of our web site. My fathers car is in those pictures.

[tim slocum]

Why was this PT distroyed? It seems no one could raise the funds for a restoration,but how about just enough to move her to a safe place.At least then there would be a future chance that someone would come up with the money. How much would it have cost to move her to someones elses site?

[ptjim]

We sold the boat for $1.00 to a guy that kept e-mailing me saying he wanted it. It was turning into an albatross for us (as DoANM NE Branch) so we sold it in order to move on from it. He had a boat buisiness in FL and was going to transport it there no problem. Once he took ownership and had temp storage worked out the owners suddenly had an opportunity to sell the storage place she was at. So it had to go. He would keep going to folks that wanted 23% on a 20K loan to move it approx 120 miles versus using the business or whatever else he had available. The trucker we used to move it once was willing to work with him if he would cover immediate payroll, fuel, permits and such and pay some sweet points over time (certainly not 23%) but the guy would not listen so there fore she was cut up. Killed me. I had 30K into just preserving the boat. Made a steel cradle, moved it, I had a shipwright go in to support the hull where she needed it and then finally we covered it in shrink wrap to keep the rain out and off.
When I think bad there are somethings we could have done differently. It would have been outstanding to have an Elco PT operable that could be restored and operated as a museum boat. PT761 was not put on Navy rolls becasue the war ended. She was about 2 weeks from making it. was the most complete out of the cancelled boats at Elco. She was to have armor install around the bridge and some more sophiticated electronics. She was just waiting for that to arrive.
Wasn't meant to be sadly.

[norgale]

ptjim; WOW! Thanks for coming on board with that story. I really did get the pictures that I posted from the PT Boats,inc out of Germantown Tn. but I'm very happy to see more pictures of her and from someone who actually owned her. And yes 761 is the correct number according to PT Boats Inc.
I agree with your sentiments in seeing the boat cut up. Damn shame if you ask me but these projects are soooo expensive anymore it isn't funny.
So here is a copy of the picture of the same boat as I remember her from 1960 at Cape Cod. Don't know if this was before or after she was called the Moby Dick or where the picture was taken but maybe you would know.
If you have anymore pictures of this boat I would love to have them for my own keeping. I'm a history nut for things like this and I would like to have as complete a history as I can get. Talking to you is a real pleasure. Pete
My email is normanmcgill@yahoo.com.

[norgale]

Here's another PT picture from the PT Boats,Inc 2007 calendar. These are the boats of Ron 2 and with their numbers you can tell they are very early boats.

[norgale]

IWC started this thread with a question on how the PT's got to the Phillipines so here is another picture from the PT Boats,Inc calendar that shows how that happened.

[Trisquire]

Here's another PT picture from the PT Boats,Inc 2007 calendar. These are the boats of Ron 2 and with their numbers you can tell they are very early boats.Well, they're not Hueys, but I still hear Wagner's Ride of the Valkyries in my head.

Tom

[norgale]

Ha! If they were Hueys there would be ten of them instead of four PT's. I probably know that tune but not the name of it.