Large fast EDF?

[TomM]

I'm starting work on a company project. A fast UAV to deliver electronic sensors to remote locations. I was first thinking turbines, but electric DF sounds so much easier. Who makes the most powerful edf.
How far and how fast could I drop a 2lb payload with an edf? 10 miles at 100mph?
We're most likely going to use some type of GPS intelligent guidance, or a video downlink system.


Thanks,
Tom

[NCC-1701]

Tom,

You're outside the scope of what we do here. We fly line-of-sight only. Dropping payloads and GPS enabled control as you're describing are banned by the AMA to try and at least provide a speed bump to slow down terrorists from obtaining UAV technology.

Have you tried the UAV forum here on RCG? Also, check out the UAV System Program Office the Army has at Redstone Arsenal, Huntsville, AL. They might be able to provide you with some good ideas on delivering payloads as well as guidance systems.

Rob

[TomM]

I've been in our holy AMA for 20 years and I never heard of droping payloads (ie - candy and prizes at airshows) and GPS connected to FMS autopilot as outlawed.

So does anyone make anything more powerful than the Shredair with 19lbs of thrust?

[NCC-1701]

Tom,

The ban is recent. It came after Maynard Hill's Transatlantic GPS assisted RC flight. Kind of aknee-jerk, but congress was actually talkihng about limiting how much glow fuel we could own! :O The Schubler DS-94, is about the best on the market right now. The Lehner motors seem to be a favorite motor. Check out Electric Jet Factory as they sell Schubler/Lehner power systems. For batteries, ThunderPower and Vampower are about the best on the market. Vampower is about to start shipping 4S and 5S 4000 batteries that can be wired in series/parallel to meet your power needs.

Rob

http://www.ejf.com/

[NCC-1701]

Tom,

Also, do you have Motocalc? It's a good tool for getting ballpark predictions on a set-up before you commit to a system. It's available from Capable Computing, an RCG sponsor. Free for the first 30 days, and pretty reasonable to register only $30 or so.

Rob

[Chris True]

My opinion -

This topic is not appropriate for this forum, if your company has a legit purpose for developing the project you ought to be able to figure it out on your own. The thread has been reported, by me in case there is any doubt.

[TomM]

Tom,

snip........ but congress was actually talkihng about limiting how much glow fuel we could own!....snip

http://www.ejf.com/


Another knee jerk plan indicating that the terrorists have won.

[TomM]

Chris..
It is a ligit purpose. And in the spirit of trust, help and cooperation among modelers, I thank you for your paranoia.

Tom

[NCC-1701]

Tom,

I understand Chris' paranoia. I was a littke skittish too, until I skimmed your posting history. There have been a couple of recent incidents here on RCG you might not be aware of. First, there was apparently a threat made against the President. Check out the new "sticky" at the top of the LTUP forum. And last week we had a really whacked-out request for help here in the jets forum.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=514817

And, note Camaro11 hasn't returned since.

Rob

[vampire67]

Tom,

I understand Chris' paranoia. I was a littke skittish too, until I skimmed your posting history. There have been a couple of recent incidents here on RCG you might not be aware of. First, there was apparently a threat made against the President. Check out the new "sticky" at the top of the LTUP forum. And last week we had a really whacked-out request for help here in the jets forum.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=514817

And, note Camaro11 hasn't returned since.

Rob
The borders between model makers and commercial equipment are slowly dispearing.
I understand being suspective or watchfull, however this slowly could be compared to Blockwart mentality in Nazi-germany or cold war times in East Germany.

Or to say it with Monty Python: He said Jehova !

The terrorists have already won, so far for democracy. McCarthy is back.
:censored:

I've seen a few modelling companies start connection with the military for developing drones and UAVs. I could also understand TomM not posting with references to his company as this have always some NDA type stuff attached.

However the best equiment for this job is comming from this community.
So I considder TomM quetions usually leagal. However asking for the payload and distance to drop something is something most modellers cant answer and sounds a little obvious.
A question for most efficiant EDFs for a certain speed and plane weight would be more suitable. For a professional in aviation distance and paylod capability should be a matter of minutes to calculate from the basic facts.

regards Peter

[TomM]

Peter is right. The border between models and commercial equipment is disapearing.
So guys....All I can say is- we make sensors and communication equipment. We do work for different US gov agencies.. My boss knows I fly RC. He says to me see how cheap we can send these sensors to remote locations- like volcanos, deserts, mountain tops...

The only reason I'm thinking of an enclosed EDF is so that the end user doesn't lose a finger.

[perttime]

Just curious: why do you want it to be fast?

[TomM]

The measurement process has to be fast, within an hour or so, sending a dozen or so sensors over tens of square miles. This will replace a crew of people in cars and on foot.

A floater would take too long when added up.

[vampire67]

A floater would take too long when added up.
A floater is what you need as you want to have high effectivity.
You just have to go for a low drag version like a hotliner.
Thin high sweeped wings like an U2.

Your distance and speed spec results into an engine run time around 6min. With a little safety margin make it 10min.
Thats the battery capacity needed.

Now define you minimum weight (may be start with sensor weigt being ~20..25% total, so total weight start at 8..10 lbs)
I would go for a 1:2 thrust/weight ratio as you need to be effective not going straight up.
So I would start at 20..25N thrust. A Schübi DS51 seems sufficiant and also matches the speed with a decent power configuration.
Seems like Hacker and Kontronik gives the best effectivity (check Daniels web page: www.schuebeler-jets.de).
Power requirement is around 6..7 cells (LiPo) at around 45Amps.
For 10min you need ~6AH capacity. So lets start with 6..7s2p 3,2AH Kokams. Results into 2..2,2 lbs battery weight, so ~3 lbs for the engine+battery. So this leaves 2..2,5 lbs for the airframe (based on 8 lbs total).
This is about the lowes configuration to start with.
Actually I would double the engine configuration. So another 3 lbs for the second fan, motor and battery and you have some reserve. This allowes also an airliner like engine pod configuration, resulting into short and effective ducting and leaves the fuselage for sensor storage and release mechanism.

Definitely doable.

regards Peter

[cobaltdan]

I'm starting work on a company project. A fast UAV to deliver electronic sensors to remote locations. I was first thinking turbines, but electric DF sounds so much easier. Who makes the most powerful edf.
How far and how fast could I drop a 2lb payload with an edf? 10 miles at 100mph?
We're most likely going to use some type of GPS intelligent guidance, or a video downlink system.


Thanks,
Tom


we manufacture precision guided parachutes for exactly this purpose. our smallest unit "micro onyx" will handle a 2# sensor or munition payload. see our web site.

we also manufacture a small rigid wing glider for the same purpose that flies at a higher speed: up to 200mph with a 5# payload (not on web site, contact us for more info).

sincerely,

daniel preston
www.atairaerospace.com