The LipoSack - LiPo charging and storage solution

[Mark Wood]

RCGroups members and beyond:

Tomorrow I'll be bringing out a new product called the LipoSack. It is a soft 9"x12" bag with a hook and loop closure and made from treated fiberglass cloth. To date I've blown up eight different Lipo battery packs of 2s and 3s configuration up to and including TP Gen II 2100s which I believe are the great majority of the packs we use. To me the issue is not the smoke but the flames and flaming debris that gets ejected in a venting and the resulting unfortunate aftermath of those by-products. LipoSack contains the hot debris and flames while safely venting only the smoke to atmosphere. It works... every time. I had the idea two and a half years ago and pretty much everyone that has seen or heard about this has deemed it very worthy of the time and effort to actually go fully public with it. They believe in what I've done with the final product.

I'm taking it to RCX in Anaheim tomorrow for display and taking orders and it is also being sold and displayed this weekend at MWE in San Diego by Diversity Model Aircraft (http://66.241.195.91/flydmahome.asp) for the intro price of $24.95 for event attendees. The regular retail price will be $29.95. Sureflite (http://www.sureflite.com/) also emailed me this evening and is placing an order.

My new website is www.LipoSack.com which will go active this weekend.You will not only see some of the UtahFlyers clips of Lipos openly venting but some of the tests that I put the LipoSack through and a way to order them if you like what you see. The phone line for orders will become active on Monday, AT&T willing. PayPal and email ordering are the easiest way to order.

Thanks to all for the concern and brainpower in this community to come up with ways to mitigate a viable safety concern in our hobby. My solution is simply a different approach to the same goal.

Thanks to Lee in the Lipo Fire Videos thread (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=477503) who gave me permission to use portions of the UtahFlyers vids that he's worked so hard on. Doing this kind of thing is a bit unnerving when these cells get unpredictable.
Thanks especially go to my wife and my flying buddies around San Diego and elsewhere who encouraged me to take a risk in the interest of mitigating a recognized safety hazard in our hobby and who believed in the viability of my idea. Their support is immeasurable. :)

VIDEO of LipoSack tests (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=513740#post5430239)

mw

[Doug Sipprell]

Mark:

Congrats on your new enterprise, and best of luck with it.

Can the Lipo Sack be used again, after having contained a LiPo venting/destruction?

RD

[Mark Wood]

Thanks, Doug!

Reuse after an "event" is not recommended. The coating gets damaged. Besides...

If you DO have a pack go off in the LipoSack, return it to me with a note stating the circumstances and receive a new one FREE! It will be included in the "Survivor's Gallery" on the website.

How's THAT for a warrantee? :)

mw

[GregG]

:cool: Good going Mark! I remember seeing the first prototype at RCX when we were indoor flying there. Glad to see your idea finally come to market. It should help many people.

Hope you do well with it my friend, best of luck! http://static.rcgroups.com/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif

[kusunokimasahige]

how many lipo fires untill the sack itself will burn? ie what is the flashpoint of the bag?

KM

[Mark Wood]

The temperature rating of the fabric is 1000 degree F. or 540 C. continuous.
It contains the flash fire characteristics of a lipo quite well.
I've tested up to three cells at a time and believe that it willl easily take a total of six cells (6s or 3s2p). I'm working with other material that could take the larger packs of multiples (5s4p, etc) but that's in the future for now. I wanted to get a working solution to those that primarily use the 3s 2100 and smaller which comprise the majority of the users out there.

mw

[Doug Sipprell]

I definitely think I will be obtaining one of these LiPo sacks. It really makes charging at the flying site or in the field more convenient. Presently, I haul my Brinks Security Box (ala Wally World) to the site, but almost NEVER use it to contain the pack. I use the box as a carrying case for the charger and balancer. The pack being charged is laying out in the open. However at home, in the hobby room, the pack(s) are ALWAYS placed in the security box during charging or discharging. Why not at the field? No good reason. Stupid, I know. This LiPo sack could really fit the bill for "ease of containment". Sometimes the easiest and most efficient solutions are the last one's to be discovered.

RD

[rob mueller]

That is great Mark!

I will be ordering.

[Fairbanks]

Kudos on what looks like a great product. I think I need one - just have to get budget approval :D .

-Rob

[Don Sims]

Very cool idea MW! Doing that nuke work comes in handy once in a while!! :D

[Basketcase]

Excellent idea Mark. Glad you're bringing it to market. Doug asked the exact question I was going to after watching the video, and your answer seals the deal.

Best of luck with your new business. Hope you sell a million of 'em.

Wayne

[flyingdoc]

I'll echo what everyone else has said, Great Idea! Will you offer another closing solution rather than velcro? It seems like a violent enough explosion could rip it right open....especially after being worn in a little.

[Buzz]

Boy.... Mark, that's great! I'm glad to see something that looks fool proof on the market. Beats the heck out of garbage cans, cinder blocks and everything else I've seen so far. That's one helluva a warranty! :)

Nice job!

Buzz

[flieslikeabeagle]

I'll echo what everyone else has said, Great Idea! Will you offer another closing solution rather than velcro? It seems like a violent enough explosion could rip it right open....especially after being worn in a little.
Mark, one more "Great idea!" from me. :)

Doc, not to put words in Mark's mouth, but I don't think the fabric makes any attempt to restrain the pressure - it vents freely through the fabric. So there should not be any significant pressure on the velcro, I think.

I think this is basically a more elegant version of Buzz' coffe-can and hardware cloth setup, with the advantage of having a finer filter for particulates than the hardware cloth can provide.

-Flieslikeabeagle

[Doug Sipprell]

Mark:

Here's a little ditty you could put on your website in promoting the product:

"Is your LiPo safe?? "

"Sure, it's in the Bag!"

Speaking of websites, I tried to log onto www.LipoSack.com but didn't get very far. Am I too early?

RD

[QuietRCFly]

Neat product!

How hot does the outside of the bag get? Or what I really want to know is, would there be any collateral damage if the bag was laying on something plastic or not heat resistant?

Thanks - Chris

[Mark Wood]

All:

I just got back from MWE and we have commitments from dealers in San Diego, Los Angeles, Sacramento, St. Louis, the UK and Switzerland! :eek:
Every last one of this first 150 bags were snapped up in 72 hours.
Chip Hyde stopped by the booth, took a look, grabbed his wallet with a "Man! I gotta have one-a these!" and paid full price on the spot! Peter Berg of Berg Receivers, whom many of you know is of course a great inventor and innovator himself dropped by, inspected one for a minute and declared it a "marvelous, marvelous product whose timing is perfect". Needless to say I feel like I have a tiger duct-taped to my wrist but I really believe that I have the full resources to do this thing right. So, to answer some comments and questions:Will you offer another closing solution rather than velcro? It seems like a violent enough explosion could rip it right open....especially after being worn in a little.I doubt it for now but I keep all options open. This is 3M product and IMO THE best hook and loop available. Two cells venting at the same time in an earlier prototype did blow the flap open about 60% but the vents now designed into the upper seam of the bag allow the smoke and pressure to escape without letting the flames and debris out. The last test shown on the video is in fact two 2100 cells going off at the same time and the bag took it in stride. Even with the flap open 60%, flames and flaming debris were still contained as long as the user drops the pack to the bottom of the bag.Doc, not to put words in Mark's mouth, but I don't think the fabric makes any attempt to restrain the pressure - it vents freely through the fabric. So there should not be any significant pressure on the velcro, I think.On the contrary. The fabric is completely waterproof and airtight. It's the vents that allow the pressure and smoke to release while still captivating all but the tiniest soot particles. There is no filtering whatsoever. Remember, we're working to mitigate flames and flaming debris from becoming property damage or worse. We can survive a simple smelly smoke bomb.Here's a little ditty you could put on your website in promoting the product:

"Is your LiPo safe?? "

"Sure, it's in the Bag!"

Speaking of websites, I tried to log onto www.LipoSack.com but didn't get very far. Am I too early?
HA! Doug, that's a great one that made me LOL. I may use that in some way in the future if you don't mind! :D
My poor webmaster got clobbered by a case of food poisoning along with half a dozen others over the weekend so we missed the launch date of our website. I think I can forgive him. After all, he's my best bud and flying amigo regardless. It's nice to have friends with resources just when and where you need them, eh? Besides, I couldn't have arranged a better product launch if I had wanted to. Everyone got some toys to take home this weekend and I have more material being delivered next week. My seamstress is training more folk for when they're needed and the word most certainly got out in lots of places just by face time and RCGroups alone. Next up is contacting the mags for inclusion in their New Product columns and who knows what else.How hot does the outside of the bag get? Or what I really want to know is, would there be any collateral damage if the bag was laying on something plastic or not heat resistant?Chris, the bag gets darned hot. There's no denying that. One should always do their charging on a non-flammable surface in a reasonable environment free of combustibles. I think this is the First Commandment of Lipo Use ennyways. I actually did a test on cardboard for a worst-case Darwin situation though. The cardboard was charred through but there were no flames since the bag was sitting on top of the charred area disallowing one part of the combustion triangle...air. Same with a simulated wooden workbench. Charring, no flames.

Guys, my whole life is dedicated to doing things the most simple, convenient and uncomplicated way I possibly can. It's just the way I am. I hated dragging an ammo box or somesuch around just to charge my toy batteries so this is what I came up with...plain and simple. The whole thing was originally for MY convenience. It's just that more and more buds wanted one too and this is what happened. If you all see the convenience and the utility in it, great. If not and you feel your remedy is good enough for you, that's great too. We're all originals pretty much. This is an option for you lazy bums like me that refuse to do things the hard way. I've personally been through a house fire in the past and know the trauma that goes with it first hand. If this helps one person avoid the same fate, I've succeeded in my quest.
Nth-Nth-Nth-Nth that's all, folks! :)

mark

[ls77]

Hello Mark, the LipoSack looks great. We have been working on one also since 2003 (short video of an early prototype: www.b-p-p.com/videos/CPtest3.wmv ) but very happy to see others are coming out with similar solutions also. The more options we have to safely charge our packs the better!

-Troy

[Mark Wood]

Well done, Troy!
Great minds think alike, eh? :)

Oh. I heard from my webmaster a few minutes ago and he said that the site should be active tomorrow along with the phone line on the flyer.

mw

[Navy Diver]

Mark,
Great product! Are you going to wait for the web site to be live before you start taking orders?
Eric

[Mark Wood]

I'm personally out already and more material is on the way but my seamstress will have more by this next weekend. You can also order from Diversity Model Aircraft (http://66.241.195.91/flydmahome.asp) who has a good stock on hand. Give Steve a call at 858-693-8188. LipoSacks are so new that they aren't on his website yet but he'll be happy to fill your order!
Sureflite (http://www.sureflite.com/) and Discount Hobbies (http://www.discounthobbywarehouse.com/) are also stocked dealers that you can contact. :)

mw

[Navy Diver]

Thanks Mark,
I just talked to Steve and ordered 2.
Eric

[Mark Wood]

http://smilies.vidahost.com/otn/wink/thumb.gif

mw

[Doug Sipprell]

Mark:

Should I direct an order for the Lipo Sack to you (or your website), or should I be ordering thru a distributor? I really like the idea of the garantee you mentioned, that being the sack would be replaced should I have a LiPo "event" and I report it as well as send the "ued" sack back to you. I would like to get one or two of these on order. Point me in the right direction.

Thanks

RD

[BEC]

I just recently got four Battery Bunkers, but I've been wondering how the heck I'd take them to a meet (say Chilliwack at the end of the month) without a major packing job. This looks like just the solution. I guess I'd better drop Steve B a note.....

[Mark Wood]

Doug, BEC:

Give DMA, Sureflite or Discount a call or email. We'll likely be using our friendly dealers as much as possible since so many of them are good friends anyways. The site will have links to all of them as they come onboard so just pick the one you like, who's got 'em or who's closest. Your choice. :)

And Bernard... say HI to Ron and Brad for me. Fred Bronk and I are planning a trip up there in the near future for one of the Chilli events. Been too long.

mw

[NCguy]

Mark,

Looks like you got a winner. Is all the smoke released from the LIPO pack or does the liposack emit some of its own?

[Mark Wood]

NCguy:

The bag gets darned warm and some of the coating will scorch and smoke just a little since the coating is rated at ~540 degrees. You don't really notice it in the rest of the cloud you're running from though. :eek:
Trust me on this.

mw

[Raycer]

Just placed my order for 2 from Steve. The Motherday gift for my wife is 2 flower pots.... :D

[Mark Wood]

Don't forget to duck! :eek: :D

Oh yeah! All, check out the next issue of Fly RC magazine. They're putting our LipoSack in the front New Products section that's normally reserved for airplanes. I was contacted by the editor Sunday evening after someone alerted him to what's going on. I guess they think this is a pretty good idea too! :):)

mw

[m4rs]

Brilliant!!!!!

[Harley]

How about making a much larger one, with pockets, that could simply be used for storage of lipos during non use... ???

Harley

[Mark Wood]

Something along those lines is in the works, Harley. ;)
We recognize it as an important part of the storage aspect. We literally burned the midnight oil just getting the first 150 for last weekend and demand grabbed every last one.

mw

[Steve_O]

When will they be available? I do not see a way to order at this point.
Thanks.

[Fred Bronk]

BEC, I think Todd has some bags too.

I had a little heads up and got to see the Liposack at RCX and all weekend at MWE. The looks on peoples faces were great. It is such a simple idea and easy to lug around (unlike Mark :D)

If I had used anything like this (and a little more common sence) I may still have a garage and be living at home.

FB

[Mark Wood]

When will they be available? I do not see a way to order at this point.
Thanks.LipoSacks are available now. See Post #21 (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5443889&postcount=21).
You will likely have to phone the dealers. They're so new that I doubt that they are on dealer websites quite yet.
Vaporware they ain't. We'll have more coming to dealers soon. After all, every last one is hand made.

Todd's Models (http://www.Toddsmodels.com/) called yesterday and we will be stocking them asap. :)

mw

[Navy Diver]

Mark,
Got my 2 LipoSacks today. Great product! Thanks very much.
Eric

[thermlin']

diversity model aircraft DOES have them on the website, i just checked; just click the order button on the left. im definitly considering buying one of these, mostly because i got the crap scared out of me when i had a split-second short on some deans micros, with my first lipo. no damage done.

[Fairbanks]

Well, I just got my LipoSack from Diversity Model Aircraft yesterday and it looks awesome - really good work and a nice design. It's actualy roomier than I expected.

[leccyflyer]

Mark

Those look like a great idea.

Well done for the innovation and you're certainly the man with the energy to make the product succeed.

Are Diversity set up for international sales?

Bri

[Mark Wood]

Hiya, Bri! :)

I think Steve can ship int'l but Neil Stainton at HyperFlight co uk will be carrying them real soon as he's one of the first shipments of this next lot to go out.
We're pretty tickled about the universal acceptance of our product (especially the wife). It's funny sometimes how a simple idea for an item to make life a little more convenient for one's self can blossom into something that you least expect. So far four US mags have contacted us and the dealers we already have supplied are wanting more. Between all this, living amongst family again in SoCal after a long absence and our generally good health we're very grateful. :)

mw

[Rotary Rocket]

Congrats Mark on a great product.

I'm a car guy and my packs are either 2S4P, or 4S4P TP 8000s. Do you know when you will have a product out that will handle these packs?

Keep up the good work.

[Mark Wood]

I've been getting a number of requests for 'Sacks that will handle the larger packs. I'm making a larger one to test with a 5s4p heli pack. If this larger one handles that, we may have that option soon.
Just keep yer fingers crossed that I can catch it on video. It should be pretty cool.
If you know of anyone with packs of >six cells that needs to dispose of them, I know of a real good method with camera rolling. :)

mw

[mdlifcrisis]

Maybe an in-flight version? I have a small, probably 5 acre park in front of my house in a residential neighborhood. It would give me great comfort to have some fire protection on-board..Something just large enough for say a 1320~2100 to fit into. Surely in the event of a crash all bets would be off but it MAY just save someones behind..
Great idea BTW..

[Mark Wood]

We have discussed something for "onboard" systems but the LipoSack relies a bit on what we call "poofability" which helps to cool the discharge just enough that only smoke escapes. I think a small form-fit bag might allow flames and debris to be ejected but it's an idea worth investigating. We're always listening to end-user's suggestions! :)

mw

[Yellowspider]

Same here cannot seem to locate the site to buy these? Any help would be great.
Yellowspider

[Mark Wood]

Yellowspider, see post #36. We're still ramping up on production and only a few have made it to dealers outside of San Diego but we'll be fixing that very soon!

mw

[tiny_tim]

On the DMA site they are on the order page. See the link below.

https://www19.safesecureweb.com/flydma/forms/order.asp?path1=order

Tim

[leccyflyer]

Hiya, Bri! :)

I think Steve can ship int'l but Neil Stainton at HyperFlight co uk will be carrying them real soon as he's one of the first shipments of this next lot to go out.
We're pretty tickled about the universal acceptance of our product (especially the wife). It's funny sometimes how a simple idea for an item to make life a little more convenient for one's self can blossom into something that you least expect. So far four US mags have contacted us and the dealers we already have supplied are wanting more. Between all this, living amongst family again in SoCal after a long absence and our generally good health we're very grateful. :)

mw

Hiya Mark :)

Steve at Diversity got back to straight away with the shipping details etc and I put my order in by return. Looking forward to showing the Liposack to all comers at the fly-ins over the summer.

"What's that?" They'll ask -

"Oh, it's a new innovation." I'll reply "The best minds in the business have determined that Lipos work best if they have a little rest in between flights, so that's a fireproof sleeping bag for my LiPos to keep them nice and cosy and tucked up between flight. I'm getting 150% of the flight duration I was getting before - you ought to try one."

Glad this is working out to be a big success for you all over there.

Bri

[Mark Wood]

Jeez, Bri. Why didn't I think of that? :rolleyes: :D

mw

[Doug Sipprell]

Here's another pitch:

"Love your Lipo's Give them their Blankie!"

:rolleyes:

RD

[Raycer]

Just placed my order for 2 from Steve. The Motherday gift for my wife is 2 flower pots.... :D

Just rec'd today.

Mark, I send you e-mail with my questions & comments. Please check...

[Hogster]

Very impressive product Mark. :) Let me know when you release ones which are capable of containing a 3s1p 4000mAh or 8s1p 4000mAh explosion and I might be interested :)

All the best with it mate,


David

[Mark Wood]

David:

I'm pretty confident that 3x4000 would be sufficiently contained in our present model. As stated earlier, I'm having a few larger models fabricated for destructive testing in the near future. I can hardly wait to see what the 5s4p I have stashed just for the purpose will do. http://www.planetsmilies.com/smilies/evilgrin/evilgrin0010.gif

By the way, all...

We have been catching up with our dealer orders and the various stocking dealers have been reflected on our dealer list at www.Liposack.com. Pick your favorite and order from them. If your favorite dealer does not carry our product, tell them to shoot us a request. Production is coming to full speed and nobody that wants one or three should have a problem getting them! :)

mw

[tiny_tim]

Received my Liposacks today. They look great.

[Vamooska]

Vampowerpro just signed up as a dealer. I should have stock in a week or so!
This is a great product folks...the main word here is....BE SAFE.
As some of you know I had a fire in my batT lab and if I had had a lipo sack.....I would still have my beloved Tritons....all of em. :( So you know I am a true believer.
Hindsight ya know?
Lets see....now for a slogan....
How do you get YOUR lipos to hit the sack? :D
Dont let your lipos get fired up....BAG EM!
MCS = Mishap Containment System
SaCK = Safety and Containment Kit :D
Peace guys
Vammy

[Mark Wood]

Great to have ya on board, Vammy! :)

I borrowed our catch phrase from Doug Sipprell:
"Lipo safety...
It's in the Bag!"

Doug, please get in touch with me, willya? ;)

mw
The Bagman

[Steve_O]

Now available from Jack Stafford Models at www.jsmodels.com

[Andy W]

Mark,
I just now stumbled on this thread. Steve donated a couple of LiPoSacks to my local club fun fly back in June, I didn't realize until now that you were behind these. When my number came up in the raffle, it's what I chose - I'm happy to own one, and think it's a great idea! Good luck - although it looks like you're doing well already!
..a

[Doug Sipprell]

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5707093&postcount=475

RD

[Mark Wood]

Whew! I saw that thread, Doug.

All:
I have a design for larger mah ratings. It combines some minor design changes in our flagship LipoSack with a type of liner that goes into a longer (9"x18") LipoSack. It holds promise but until I can get ahold of another high voltage pack it won't see the market. Our last test with the 5s4p was admittedly a failure which prompted a different approach to larger packs. We also incorporated a couple of small design changes that will improve our already successful LipoSack by using a topstitch for added strength and white velcro just 'cuz it looks cooler. :)

Glad ya like it, Andy. I hope you have no cause to test it.

mw

[Doug Sipprell]

We also incorporated a couple of small design changes...a topstitch for added strength and white velcro just 'cuz it looks cooler. :) mw
Well, that sure beats macrame and a lovely shade of mauve!! :rolleyes: ;)

RD

[Mark Wood]

Hunh. Macrame..... (thinking)

The material doesn't come in mauve or Goldenrod for that matter. :( ;)

One of my seamtresses who does costumes as her main business offered to build a designer LipoSack with rhinestones. I'm still considering that one. :)

mw

[Doug Sipprell]

One of my seamtresses who does costumes as her main business offered to build a designer LipoSack with rhinestones. I'm still considering that one. :) mw
Oh, man, I can just see it now:

....The "Liberace" LipoSack, the perfect fashion statement for your Fruitfly 400! ;) :D

RD

[NCguy]

Its sounding like a contest. Mark will you put one up for the winner and possibly runner up?

[Mark Wood]

Doug:

They should make a movie about you... A Beautifully Disturbed Mind starring Cheryl Crowe. :D

mw

[Doug Sipprell]

Well, what can I say, my mentor was Charlie Manson..................or was that Marilyn?? :confused: ;)

RD

[Buzz]

Well, what can I say, my mentor was Charlie Manson..................or was that Marilyn?? :confused: ;)

RD

HAHAHAHAHA! Doug, if they put rhinestones on it.... are you going to wear it?

:D :D

[Doug Sipprell]

HAHAHAHAHA! Doug, if they put rhinestones on it.... are you going to wear it? :D :D
Oh, nasty, nasty!! :eek:

In case you didn't notice, the ad says "In the bag", not "In the sack"!! ;)

RD

[Buzz]

Oh, nasty, nasty!! :eek:

In case you didn't notice, the ad says "In the bag", not "In the sack"!! ;)

RD

LMAO! Well, you're half "in the bag" when you finally get to the "sack" anyway, right?
You are seriously demented. :D :D :D I keep wondering what your neighbors think when you come out of the garage in a biohazard suit holding a pole with something burning and putting out foul smells.....only to dunk it in a pot of salt water? "Just don't look at him George. Maybe he'll go away." :p

[Doug Sipprell]

.... you come out of the garage in a biohazard suit holding a pole with something burning and putting out foul smells.....
Well, actually, I was wearing my new Zoot Suit from Goodwill Industries, and I was holding the US flag. After all it WAS July the 4th!! As far as the smells go, what can I say? A six pack of Heinken and three Bratwurst's will do that to ya!!! :eek:

As far as the neighbors are concerned, they KNOW I'm nuts and am quite capable of loading up my Moth with 1-1/2 Oz. of anthrax spores. I have convinced more than one of them that they have no jurisdiction within the airspace over their houses at altitudes in excess of 250 feet. Now you know why I got the altimeter do-hickie!! ;) :rolleyes:

Hey, I've got this thing figured out. IT'S IN THE BAG!!!! :D

RD

[Buzz]

Well, actually, I was wearing my new Zoot Suit from Goodwill Industries, and I was holding the US flag. After all it WAS July the 4th!! As far as the smells go, what can I say? A six pack of Heinken and three Bratwurst's will do that to ya!!! :eek:

As far as the neighbors are concerned, they KNOW I'm nuts and am quite capable of loading up my Moth with 1-1/2 Oz. of anthrax spores. I have convinced more than one of them that they have no jurisdiction within the airspace over their houses at altitudes in excess of 250 feet. Now you know why I got the altimeter do-hickie!! ;) :rolleyes:

Hey, I've got this thing figured out. IT'S IN THE BAG!!!! :D

RD

Heh Heh.... remember to wrap yourself in tin foil with a collender on your head when you go out to check the mail. 3 bratwurst's?! I've levitated a bedsheet with less than that!! :p

What's in the bag? Such a punster!

[Doug Sipprell]

I've levitated a bedsheet with less than that!! :p
Hmmmm.......does that mean you're a bigger one than me?? ;) :D

What's in the bag?
At this point, nothing. So it looks like you have been caught holding it! :D :D

RD

PS: And you thought Spencer was irritating!! :p ;)

[Buzz]

Hmmmmm.... I never thought about that. Could be. :p


Hmmmm.......does that mean you're a bigger one than me?? ;) :D


At this point, nothing. So it looks like you have been caught holding it! :D :D

RD

PS: And you thought Spencer was irritating!! :p ;)

You're not fooling anyone. You know you wear it on one hand and moonwalk around the house. And you wonder why your neighbors think you're crazy! :D

Spencer who? Hahahahaha!

[Xnaron]

Maybe this is already covered in this thread...but I don't have time to read all the posts right now but I did have time to order two of these liposacks :) Anyhow would double bagging it give you extra protection when charging bigger packs (>3s)?

Brendin

[Mark Wood]

Exactly what we are experimenting with right now, Brendin.
Folk have been asking for a system for larger packs and a liner inside a LipoSack is one avenue that we are exploring. We are also working with a company that can supply us with a fireproof zipper for use in place of the hook and loop closure.
The main issue that we discovered with large packs of >six cells is the amount of heat that they generate. It eventually melts the plastic window and hook and loop closure. In a couple of instances these parts actually caught fire and that is the reason that we can't recommend using the LipoSack for use with more than six cells. Since we recently had a couple of people donate some larger packs for destructive testing (my favorite kind) we will be able to move forward soon in supplying the Hi-Volt hobbyists with a LipoSack for their intended usage.

mw

[dogon1013]

Sorry, I can't endorse this product.

Because using this product goes against one of the fundamental safety rules for chargeing lipo's ALWAYS WATCH YOUR PACK AS YOU CHARGE.

If it's in this sack, you can't see if a cell puffs and know to turn off the charger. That is the main reason for the above rule, if you see, hear, or smell something going wrong with the charge, you unplug the charger. this sack takes away your ability to see the pack, and might take away the ability to smell, and here it some too.


Granted, if you always charge un-attended (which you shouldn't do) then this might be the thing for you. But there's a better way, use something that still lets you see the pack, and also protects from fire, like an open top ceramic pot. (I use a large ceramic plate).

I do find it kind-of irresponsible to promote a product, that makes you ignore one of the lipo safety rules, but if you usually ignore that rulle anyway, I guess it's better than nothing.


I don't mean to rain on liposacks parade, nor do I have any stake in their market. It is a safety issue, so it should not be taken lightly, and must be known to all. If you use this product as it's intended, you are willingly ignoreing one of the rulse for safe lipo chargeing.Perhaps the next version of the Lipo-sack will be see-thru so you can still watch the pack, or better yet, it could have an open or removable top.

I have started a discussion thread in the batteries are of this forum, I welcome everyones comment there, or here. http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=566196

[Doug Sipprell]

I doubt if the rule on monitoring your lipo charging activities means, in the real world, that you will be sitting in a chair staring at your Lipo while it is in the process of being charged. Also, I am willing to bet one of my Elfi's that the vast majority of people charging Lipo packs do NOT maintain a 100% vigilance over the pack(s) that are being so charged. In this world of "I can't be held accountable for what I do or do not do" mentality, the priority is establishing a containment system to keep a self-destructing Lipo from destroying other items in the immediate vacinity. It is to this purpose the Lipo Sack, IMHO, effectively addresses this need. Most containment systems consist of a ceramic or metal enclosure in which the LiPo pack is placed during charging. You can't see the pack there either, and opening the lid to see of the pack has swelled could possibly coincide with the pack going off. There goes your safetly factor. With the LiPo sack, you can safely "feel" for the packs condition. If the lump in the sack feels spongy, you just might be having a problem. If you wish to remove the "threat" to a safer area, just disconnect the cables and haul the sack outside or elsewhere. I also like the feature of being able to fold up the sack and stuff it in my flight box.

I don't represent Lipo Sack and have no financial association with the supplier. I just think the idea has significant merit and to date is one of the more realistic, effective way to provide a suitable containment system for charging Lipo's.

RD

[dogon1013]

no, 100% vigilance is not realistic, but you should be in easy reach of the charger and able to turn it off if you see something go wrong. (so your in the same room, and glance at the pack every once ain a while).

I think an open top container has more merit than an enclosed sack. you can still look inside an open container, and yet it still protects from fire.




of course if you don't plan on attending your chargeing, the Lipo Sack is great. (no need for an open top if your never gonna look anyway)

[NCguy]

Sorry, I can't endorse this product.

Because using this product goes against one of the fundamental safety rules for chargeing lipo's ALWAYS WATCH YOUR PACK AS YOU CHARGE.




Yes, those were the rules prior to containment devices like the Liposack and the battery bunker. I dare say these devices have somewhat rewritten the rules. You can practice whatever rules that makes you comfortable. Given the choice between fixating on the pack during a charge or charging in a Liposack I doubt many will side on the side of fixation. With thermal runaway by the time you noticed there was an issue theres a good chance it would be too late.

Personally, I still dont charge inside so it wouldnt matter if it went off anyway. The containment devices wont contain the smoke. But wherever I charge I use a containment device and an LBA6 with overcharge shutoff circuitry.

[Mark Wood]

I've responded in user dogon1013's thread referenced above but for the sake of simplicity I'll quote it here:

1) By the time you see a problem, many times it is already too late and as others have pointed out, being watchful allows one to mitigate the spread of the ensuing fire.
Additional comment: Our testing showed us that there is a sharp *snap* when the pack develops an internal short leading to a venting. Almost without fail, there was maybe 2-3 seconds before venting and subsequent ignition. That doesn't give one time to do anything but watch once that pack has decided to go critical.

2) Take a good look at the video of our LipoSack testing at www.LipoSack.com. Thanks to RCGroups user Lee and the Utah Flyers organization, there is video of open lipo bursts spewing flaming debris all over the place. A clay pot will do nothing to prevent that.

3) One of the primary things that motivated me to develop our product was when one of my best friends was keeping the primary tenet of lipo charging and sat watching the battery charge. He fell asleep during the process and was damn near killed when he awoke to flames in the house.

Dogon1013, I can understand your sentiments but never forget one everpresent fact of life, and that is :censored: happens. We're simply here to help when it does.

mw

[dogon1013]

I agree that the Liposack makes un-attended charging safe. but if you are going to be monitoring the chargeing, like when you are at the field, being able to see the pack , and stop the charger when something looks wrong makes ALOT more sense.

Stopping a fire from happeneing is safer than trying to contian a fire. (I think the fire department would agree)

I asked this in the other thread, but the info should probably be here too:
In your video'd tests of the packs in the Liposack, at what time did the packs puff noticeably? at what time did they blow?

[Larry3215]

I agree with Mark 100%.

1)Open containers are not safe. The Lipo sack is far better.

2)I have deliberately blown up several packs now and sometimes you get a few (very few) minutes warning and sometimes you only get a few seconds.

In one test I stopped tha charging when the pack started to swell and it continued to swell and then vented - even with the power OFF.

So being there and watching is NOT a guarantee you can stop the process.

Open containers will allow the pack to spew burning embers over a large area. Those sparks can shoot more than 20 feet in some of my tests. The packs themselves can act like flaming bottle rockets and the entire thing goes shoting around spewing flames and burning embers.

Do NOT use an open container.

Larry

[Mark Wood]

The LipoSack makes unattended charging safer. A small but important detail. As stated in the other thread I designed this product because I'm not going to sit and watch a pack charge. I have other things to do. This product is for those that prefer to charge unattended or relatively so.

mw

[Doug Sipprell]

Do NOT use an open container.

Especially here in South Carolina. The Smokies really frown on you having an open container in your car..............oops.........wrong forum. Sorry about that! ;) :D

All joking aside, the open container for lipo charging does have its limitation as so described. I also agree with Larry on this issue. It's not the "venting" of the pack that has me worried, it's the surrounding possible damage that can happen due to the flaming debris scattering all over. I firmly believe the Lipo Sack properly handles this potential situation. I also like the product's ability to have a "controlled venting", a better situation than a sealed container.

What I DO monitor rather closely is the charger. I use AF109's, one of which has a damaged potentiometer. I keep an eye on the charger display to be sure the charge rate is not changing on me.

Mark: Any truth to the rumor that you are changing your handle on your avatar to read: "The Bag Man"? Or was that "The Bagwan"? ;)

RD

[Buzz]

Especially here in South Carolina. The Smokies really frown on you having an open container in your car..............oops.........wrong forum. Sorry about that! ;) :D



LMAO!! I've been trying not to comment.... but that was too much! :D

[Mark Wood]

I love Rumors. Great album. ;)

mw

[Doug Sipprell]

I love Rumors. Great album. ;)
Ah, now there's a connection! I understand Mick was in the bag for many years!! Great group, and yes, a great album.

RD

[Xnaron]

The LipoSack makes unattended charging safer. A small but important detail. As stated in the other thread I designed this product because I'm not going to sit and watch a pack charge. I have other things to do. This product is for those that prefer to charge unattended or relatively so.

mw

Thanks Mark...the lipo sack has given me peace of mind while charging. Its worth every penny!

Brendin

[Mark Wood]

Would you believe we've sold almost three thousand of them worldwide so far with new dealers and distributors literally being added daily?? :)

mw

[Buzz]

Would you believe we've sold almost three thousand of them worldwide so far with new dealers and distributors literally being added daily?? :)

mw

Rumors... that was a good album. We're giving away our ages. I wonder if anyone else knows it? I still have the big record albums!

Anyway, you've sold a lot of them because it was a great idea and apparently a lot of other people thought so too! It's on my Christmas list.
:p

[Marc Scully]

Mark, any idea what sort of max temperatures are reached during a lipo explosion/fire?

[Mark Wood]

I've seen guesses anywhere from 600 to 2000 degrees F. I personally don't know except that the flash fire is well-mitigated by our product. Some of the ejected material is molten copper from the interior of the pack but a lipoly ignition is not a metal fire per se. The lithium used in the packs is a salt and the primary components of ignition are the solvent electrolyte and the pack wrapping.
If someone has any better information we'd be glad to hear it.

mw

[Doug Sipprell]

....If someone has any better information we'd be glad to hear it. mw
I was told it was all those microscopic lipo's whipp'en around in the packs, creating heat as they bump into each other. When the stoicometric balance reaches parody, the alpha lipo goes very negative causing a tension vector within one or more packs and the rest, they say, is histrionics, electrically speaking. :eek:

FYI: We raffled off a LiPo Sack at our recent electric fly-in. Had a good reception to the product. One of our flyers has already, or will be, going up on www.LiPoSack.com to order a bag or two.

RD

[Mark Wood]

I was told it was all those microscopic lipo's whipp'en around in the packs, creating heat as they bump into each other. When the stoicometric balance reaches parody, the alpha lipo goes very negative causing a tension vector within one or more packs and the rest, they say, is histrionics, electrically speaking. :eek:Jeez. Wish I'd said that. Well, kinda. http://www.planetsmilies.com/smilies/confused/confused0067.gif FYI: We raffled off a LiPo Sack at our recent electric fly-in. Had a good reception to the product. One of our flyers has already, or will be, going up on www.LiPoSack.com to order a bag or two.Cool, Doug. We've sold close to five thousand of the things since last May and in fact sent a batch to South Africa a couple of weeks ago. I guess folk are flyin' just about everywhere. :)

mw

Hunh. Weird. This was post #11,111. I need to go build something. :rolleyes:

[Doug Sipprell]

Hunh. Weird. This was post #11,111. I need to go build something. :rolleyes:
No sweat, Jack. It's in the bag!! ;)

Congrats on the success to date. The right product, at the right time, for an established need, will almost always prove successful.

RD

[Bipe Flier]

What a fabulous product. I've been looking at getting a couple for some time and I really shouldn't put it off any longer.

Does anyone know if any of the retailers that carry LipoSacks take Pay Pal?

[Mark Wood]

I know Diversity (https://www19.safesecureweb.com/flydma/forms/order.asp?path1=order) does. :)

mw

[Bipe Flier]

Thanks Mark. I sent an email to Zebra Hobby (http://www.zebrahobby.ca) right after I posted here and they said they'd be getting them in this week.

[Mark Wood]

Cool. I missed the Canada location. Henry is a good source for lotsa things up your way. :)

mw