VERTEX flyng test

[maumarti]

hi friends
my English is not correct, forgive me!
I write from Italy.
I have built a model to perform some VTOL tests.
It has three brushless from myself built: two of these have 200 watts and that on the tail 120 watts. The principal rotors (11x4) are counter rotating.
The RC is Multiplex Royal Evo 9.
The weight lifted by the principal rotors is 80%. The remainder 20% are lifted by the motor of tail.
The control of the pitching is through the increase or the decrease of the turns of the motor of the tail. (mixed with the elevator)
The control of the rolling is through a small asymmetrical variation of the speed of rotation of the motors on the wings.
The control on the axle of the yaw is through the ailerons, which are vertically disposed and assigned to the stik of the rudder. (only in hovering)

If you pleasure, give ago me some suggestions!
hi
Maurizio - Italy
www.mauriziomartinucci.com

[trashmanf]

do you have any video of this flying?

what about putting some covering on it? just to make it look better :)

[maumarti]

..... some covering on it?
Ah-ah-ahh!!!!
Ok, ok!!
maximum simplicity, for now.
I have not completed some flight yet; I will do them next weekend.
This is only an "object test"; the following step will be this:

ciao

[maumarti]

these photos show some detail of the Vertex

[v22chap]

Cool ,design ,,original and simple ,,,looks like it should work. One question ..why the hand made main props? Are they bigger than what you could get commercially ??
How big is this bad boy ? Give some measurements. :D
Good luck on the maiden and keep us posted
Larry

[maumarti]

hi Larry
thanks.
I don't find props counter rotating of the measure 11 x 4. The reason for which I have built them is this.
I could use the measure props 10x6, which can also be purchased with inverse rotation, but I prefer a greater diameter to get greater push.
The model test is long 150 centimeters (59 inches) and the distance of the principal motors is of 115 centimeters (45 inches)
Its weight is 2100 grams with batteries and RC.
Next weekend I will make the first tests, I will maintain you informed.
hi

[Altocirrus]

Interesting design! I haven't seen a horizontal tail rotor on a vtol before. Should make it nice and stable in the hover... in theory!

I like the un-covered look: makes it look more experimental.

Good luck & keep us posted

[v22chap]

maumarti
Woow ,,,that is bigger than it looks ... Good luck on the test .... I am guessing that you need to make the model tail heavy (or nose heavy ) so the rear motor can just back off power to lower the tail and power up to raise the tail,,,as with out variable pitch prop on the rear your not going to be able to have it control both ways quick enough to have good pitch control.

A word of incouragement here ... I tried the same type of VTOL back 12 yrs ago ,but didn't have the tail rotor ... and it worked good ,but lacked good pitch control ,,,hopefully your tail prop will take care of this.

Now are you going to pivot the whole wing ....or just the tip portion of the wing. I would think this would be the best way as the whole wing makes a big airbrake and the little tips won't be as bad ... although the Candiar used a whole wing pivot and did o.k. with the transition. :D

Don't know it these would work for you ,,but Zinger props ,,make up to a 20 X8 wood airplane prop in both tractor and pusher .
Larry

[Tuner]

Ive used the Zingers and though they are not as efficient as an APC they work very well and come in push and pull forms. I just found a Pitch of 8 does not work so good for hover but it is acceptable.

Looks like your making your own props NICE! I think that custom props seem to be the way to go though not the easy way.

Scott

[maumarti]

hey!
Thanks, thanks to everybody!
Have decided to put a tail rotor, because 3 points of thrust are more stable and governable than 2!
The tail prop carries 20% of the general weight.
If I desire a movement of pitching, increase or decrement the rotation.
The same situation happens for the rolling. I have trust that this assures an enough control of the model.
I have built the props for two motives:
for the tests of hovering it's needed little pich and good diameter;
the measure doesn't exist 11x4 and doesn't even counter-rotating exist.
By the way...
some years ago has built an ducted fan AV8b Harrier...
You can find the photos and a video (1,7 Mb) in the section "Modelli a miscela" www.mauriziomartinucci.com

Ciao
Maurizio

[v22chap]

I love the look of the bird ,,,and I hadn't thought about making the tail do part of the lift and using the front props to also control the pitch axis ,,, that is great .I would think this is going to work great .... Keep at it.
Great website too.
Did you ever get the harrier into forward flight ?That is a piece of art :D

[maumarti]

hi
today I have tested the first reactions of the my VTOL model.
I have relieved these defects:
The model has the tendency to upset himself in before....The C.G. must be sets backer...
The hand made main props don't push sufficiently (they are better the APC or GWS)...It is not easy to build best props of those commercial!
After I will have modified the model, I will still make tests of flight.
good Sunday
Talk to you soon!

maurizio - ITALY

[v22chap]

Keep trying ,,, Rome wasn't built in a day ;) :D

[maumarti]

Sure! Can bet there!
:) :) :)
maurizio

[merengue]

Ciao MauMarti!!

How about putting gyros to help hover? I read about an X-35 using gyros (gws 03 - very cheap) to be stable. I like this design too and also the style concept is very cool (looks like a sailplane!). Another advice: if you make flipping wing tips for forward fly (a tubolar, full span spar helps here) you could use a foldable prop for rear engine to reduce drag.

Anyway cool. Mmmm :rolleyes: (if i had some more spare time...)

Take it to Ozzano, i wanna see it! :p

[maumarti]

hallo Merengue!
I have chosen not to use gyros.
I will use it, only if it will absolutely be necessary.
The prop of the tail will be replaced by the one "ducted prop" , similar to the "fenestron" of the helicopter "Gazelle"
I will be to Ozzano!!!
How do I recognize you?
Maurizio - ITALY

[max.ferra]

Hi all, ciao Maumarti & Merengue!


How about putting gyros to help hover? I read about an X-35 using gyros (gws 03 - very cheap) to be stable.


Merengue, are you talking about a full working RC model of the X-35, using three gyros, or what else? If so, could you please post any link or info here (or maybe on another thread) about that X-35?
I'd like to see if anyone has a working x-35. The best project I have seen up to now is the incomplete one of "Dr. Watson" ....

Max

[v22chap]

I think that is a smart move using a fenny tail type on it ...that should make it a lot more easy to program and fly and plus it will look better than an open rotor. :D

[merengue]

Hi all,

Mau, you already know me, i'm "mago_gi" from combat world :p so no need to presentations :cool:
it's a good idea to use a ducted fan, but you will to spend "more" to get same thrust.. :rolleyes:
X-35 i was talking about is the same max referred, from "dr.watson" in uk. It took it hovering with the help of three gyros, it seemed to work very well. Maumarti configuration should be even easier because distance between motors is greater.

[maumarti]

Ciao mago_gi !!!
I have asked for two props APC 11x 5,5 electric, as max.ferra has recommended me.
Hallo Max!
Next weekend I try other tests.
I think to put in tail a ducted prop, not a ducted fan.
Hi!

[maumarti]

The tests proceed.
I have replaced the two handmade props with the APCs 11x5.5 electric.
However they is not counterotating...... This problem I will face it later.
I have not still found a satisfactory balance, even if I have tried to move
the batteries.
Another problem is the difficulty of control of the axle of the rolling.
It seems some unstable
Wanting to put a gyroscope, as to do? The motors are two, on two different channels of the receiver, and they is mixed to the ailerons.
Help!!!
maurizio - ITALY

[v22chap]

maurizio
Do you mix the two channels in the TX or are you using an onboard mixer ?
I guess either way ,,just put the gyro on the roll axis channel before it goes into the mixer and this should give you what you need to augment the roll problem.

[max.ferra]

Maurizio
As I told you some weeks ago, I was nearly sure the Vertex will need an electronical mixer with two gyros (roll and pitch axis) to be capable of hovering, transition and normal (forward) flight.... but at the moment you could use a single "wing gyro" (a gyro with two aileron input and output), a single gyro with an external delta-mixer, or maybe two gyros.
Using the gyros the vertex will not become stable but at least controllable.
Someone here on RC-groups suggested a (expensive) stabilizer like a Co-Pilot.

But... do you have any hovering experience, with a helicopter or an aerobatic plane?
I think the Vertex will be more unstable, like a helicopter, during field-effect... and the vertex has no flybar stabilization!

Max