Interested in Getting into Thermal flying. I could use a few recommendations.

[hanknmorgan]

Hello everyone. This is my first post here in the Thermal section. I am a regular in the slope section on RCgroups. My wife and I are moving to San Antionio from San Francisco next month. I currently have 1 dedication molded slope plane and a 60" HLG, but I would like to look into getting a thermal plane sometime after we get down to Texas and get settled. I would like something could be launched with a high start or off a winch as I may join or club or something down the road if I find that I like thermal flying. I am a competant pilot and builder, so I dont need a "Beginner" plane. But, I have never flown for thermals before. What would you guy's recommend for a decent plane for me? I want something that will perform, but not break the bank. I would like it to thermal easily, but not fly REALLY slow as I am used to cranking around on Northern California coastal cliffs. I would love a molded TD plane, but due to budget, I will need a balsa build up plane. I dont know what size I should get either? 2m, 3m? I dont plan on competing or anything. It will mainly be for having fun when the slope wind isnt working for me. Thanks for your help.

-Hank

[hanknmorgan]

Also, does anyone make a sectional wing thermal plane? I have a small car, so I have no idea how I would transport a large thermal wing. I am a good builder, so if none are available, I am sure that I could modify one to make it a 2 piece design, but if there is one available, that would be nice. Thanks again.

[greyhound flyer]

Hank,

Look at the http://www.arthobby.com planes if you want something with little fabrication and good value. Otherwise, www.skybench.com has good floater kits of some of the larger classics. Or, you can go whole hog like me and scratch build a Genie. http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=219550 More info: http://genie.rchomepage.com

--Byron.

[hanknmorgan]

I have a whip-it, which is very much like an art hobby falco. It's a hand launch 60" that I could high start for some thermal hunting. I think I would really like to try a full balsa plane as I like the translucent ultracote look for wing covering. I will look into some of the skybench planes. Is it pretty much "bigger is better" with thermal planes? Meaning a 3 meter would perform better than 2 meter of the same design.

[greyhound flyer]

Is it pretty much "bigger is better" with thermal planes? Meaning a 3 meter would perform better than 2 meter of the same design.Yes, indeedy! Serious economies of scale. :D

--Byron.

[hanknmorgan]

That genie has got my name all over it. That one will have to wait a while though for budget and workspace issues though. I think I'll try a simple balsa 3meter or something and see how I like thermal flying and if I get into it I'll definately look into the genie. I have always wanted to get into vac bagging and I'd like to try my hand a cutting my own cores sometime as well. Thanks a ton for showing me the genie link.

Is there a cheap balsa plane that you would recommend? Any have 2 piece wings?

[greyhound flyer]

Is there a cheap balsa plane that you would recommend? Any have 2 piece wings?Do a search for threads started by erich in this forum. He's built serveral nice largish (100" and up) woodies over the last year or two. Not sure he includes kit prices, but you can google for the kit supplier...

--Byron.

[wingsnapper]

Hi welcome to Tejas. I've been flying themal here for a number of years, and the best advice I could give you is to get a 2M - 3M poly with an airfoil that will be able to move a bit (wind). There are a ton of planes out there that fit that description. Find one in your price range and go for it. If you have the $$ an AVA is one of the best around right now. For those of us with limited funds a 2M Chrysalis, Skybench "Bird" series are very hard to beat at ~$85-$100.
JS

[hanknmorgan]

Thanks wingsnapper. The birds definately are pretty neat. I'n not crazy about the look of the wing, but maybe it will grow on me. Will a 2 meter fly and thermal pretty well or is a 3m definately the way to go. I just worry about storage and transport of a larger wing. The cheaper the better at this point. I'll keep reading up. Thanks again.

[infopimp]

Hank, why'dja need to go and move away from Slope Heaven? Aw....

[hanknmorgan]

Tell me about it. It's awesome here. I just cant afford it here anymore with school and everything.

[Stan Myers]

Thanks wingsnapper. The birds definately are pretty neat. I'n not crazy about the look of the wing, but maybe it will grow on me. Will a 2 meter fly and thermal pretty well or is a 3m definately the way to go. I just worry about storage and transport of a larger wing. The cheaper the better at this point. I'll keep reading up. Thanks again.

Go for the "Bird" wonderful plane, easy to fly, Skybench has it priced right. I've built 3or4. Loves thermals. If the two panel is too long make it a three piece wing.

Stan

[LVsoaring]

If you enjoy building with wood, and an easy-to-fly floater appeals to you, you might also take a look at the Paragon. Very easy to build, 3M wing in 3 pieces (mine fit into my wife's Nissan Sentra for the trip to Visalia last year), a nice classic design. All of the ships everyone has mentioned are great, the Paragon is just my personal favorite. Available from Bob Sliff of Midway Models, http://home.comcast.net/~bsli40/cover.html

[byteme]

Welcome HanknMorgan to soaring. Welcome to Texas, I also live in North East Texas. I have a Dynaflite Wanderer sitting in my closet you are welcome to. When you get here and get yourself settled, Pm me and I will send it to you for just shipping cost. It is a beginner, and a Hi-start will be needed, but I am sure after you have your first 10 minute flight and find the ever elusive thermal you will be hooked forever! I started flying in Monterey Ca. on the beaches of the Monterey Bay. I could fly for hours on the 10 mph winds coming off the ocean. I started with a Gentle Lady and have moved up from there. The Wanderer might be a little slow for you, being an experienced flier, but it will get you into thermaling. Where you go from there is up to you.
I have seen it more than a few times here in this forum, people get to talking about a plane they flew with their Father or Grandfather and would love to find one again. Someone comes thru and tells them, I have one in my hanger that is not being flown if you want it. I love that! It just lets me know that there is still a spirit of, I will do you a favor if you in turn will do a favor for another new flyer someday! So, when it is your chance, pass it on!
Holler at me when you get down here!

[LVsoaring]

Byteme, you exemplify the finest qualities of those who participate in this hobby, and are a credit to RCG and everyone who enjoys this pastime! :D
If you ever come to Vegas, I hope you'll make it out to our club for some desert soaring!

Cheers!
Rick

[Sparky Paul]

If you can find a copy of "The Old Buzzard's Soaring Handbook" (?) by Dave Thornburg, many of the first things you will need to know are explained there..
Such as never fly thru the same air twice.. If you're looking for a thermal, it will be upwind.. don't circle trying to find one, do lazy-8s turning upwind each time.
The book is packed full of genuine hard-won knowledge.

[aeajr]

I am a competant pilot and builder, so I dont need a "Beginner" plane. But, I have never flown for thermals before. What would you guy's recommend for a decent plane for me? I want something that will perform, but not break the bank. I would like it to thermal easily, but not fly REALLY slow as I am used to cranking around on Northern California coastal cliffs. I would love a molded TD plane, but due to budget, I will need a balsa build up plane. I dont know what size I should get either? 2m, 3m? I dont plan on competing or anything. It will mainly be for having fun when the slope wind isnt working for me. Thanks for your help.

-Hank

Hank,

Perhaps I will be stating the obvious, but themal planes and slope planes are deisigned for very different types of flying.

When I am flying on slope, I have unlimited lift and I can zoom and play and all that.

When I am thermal hunting, I am hunting, not zipping and zooming around.

When we talk about a thermal plane performing we are not talking about speed as much as we are talking about the ability to read the air, and to handle the relatively slow steady hunt with easy confidence.

In many cases, when you are thermal hunting, you want to keep your hands off the stick, so that you don't induce movement in the plane. You want to read the air.

Thermal hunting is more like fishing. You cast out with your plane, then let it drift and watch for a nibble. There is no zooming around, because if you zoom around, you blow right through the lift.

That is why a lot of thermal planes are simple 2 channel R/E poly wing designs. It is not because they are beginner planes, but because these planes can read the air very well. And when you are 1000 feet up and half a mile out, these planes are hands off stable.

My Spirit is definately considerd a beginner thermal plane. She reads the air very well, will rise in light lift and will fly itself. Sometimes I just put in 2 clicks of rudder and let it rise and drift with the lift. This is very very different from slope flying.

When you get to the more agressive thermal planes, you are still talking about planes that can read the air and have great low speed performance. In this class of flying speed is valuable when you are getting to the lift area, or when you are trying to get out of sink, or when you are trying to come back against the wind.

So, this may all be very obvious, but the idea of a thermal ship that performs is very different from a slope plane that performs.

I did not not notice a budget for this plane. What is your budget, all up ready to fly?

$200, $500, $1000?

That would help a lot!

Take a look at the AVA - R/E/Spoilers - A competition grade sailplane
http://kennedycomposites.com/

Or look at the graphite and the organic at the same site. Top quality competition grade sailplanes.

[wingsnapper]

Well said Aeajr. When you are in a fight for every inch of altitude, the last thing you need is a plane that demands a lot out of a pilot. Some of the best themal planes just happen to be the easiest planes to fly. Don't forget to get a quality hi-start to go along with the bird your choice. Northeast Sailplane Produces and Aerofoam both offer good products. Those cheap Dynaflight offerings are only good for one season or so.
JS

[hanknmorgan]

Byteme:

Well, I definately appreciate that. I'll certainly shoot you a PM after we get settled down there and if it's still around, I'd love to get it in the air and see what thermal hunting is all about. Hopefully I can find a park or a school football field to fly on nearby. I'll scope it out when we get down there. I'll read about the wanderer, but I was wondering what size servos it would need.

aeajr:

Thanks for explaining the thermal "performance" deal. I really had no idea what made a good thermal plane. That makes alot of sense and clears things up a bit. I think a basic balsa plane is all I would need to get out there and have some fun. I have my slope moldie and HLG plane for zooming around a bit faster when the wind gets going.

[hanknmorgan]

And, as far as budget, I am a serious bang for the buck kind of guy. I like nice stuff, but I like low prices even better. I usually get the best I can, but can rarely afford anything particularly high quality, so I often bargain hunt for used stuff to save some money.

[Ollie]

Hank,
I'll bet you drive a Yugo car. ;)

Value=Quality/Price :)

You want high quality and low price. You need simplicty. Get a thermal plane like
http://www.djaerotech.com/dj_product/chrysalis2m.html
Or
http://www.skybench.com/
2M Lil Bird
Or even
Gentlelady (with medium quality and lower price).

Don't go for just very lowest price and you might get crap quality.

[aeajr]

Ollie always give good advice, so heed his words.

Budget

Hank, you STILL have not given us a budget. Was the $750 AVA in your range or way outside. Give us some help man!


I am going to assume you are on a tight budget for your first thermal bird. Since you want to keep your budget secret, let's try these. Most arfs, these days, cost less than building a kit.

Thermal planes tend to be larger than slope planes as you tend to fly them further away. I have had 3M planes out almost a mile and over 1000 feet up as I work thermals. A 3M plane is pretty small at this range.

The Spirit was my first thermal ship and I still fly it today. I selected it because it has spoilers built into the wings. Many polyhedral wing thermal ships are R/E only.

Spirit 2M RES - $100
Available RTF for $150 with radio installed - That is what I got
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXMK19&P=7
I keep the wing in two pieces and tape them together at the field. Works great!

Gentle Lady - $100 2M R/E
A classic thermal floater.
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXELP0&P=7

The Spirit and the GL are the classic 2M first thermal ships. The GL is lighter than the Spirit and has no spoilers, but they are both considered floaters. Not great for wind over about 10 mph. Many people slope these as well, in light conditions.

Bird of Time - 3M R/E - $140
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXDUL9&P=ML
A classic 3M floater. Best under 10 mph.

Several others have been mentioned in prior posts.


If you want a foam ship that flies very well, and can be taken on the slope for your light lift days, can tollerate typical slope bad landing conditions, and has aileron controls, this one might be of interest. We have a bunch of these in the club. We hi-start, winch and slope launch them. The Easy Glider flies very well and will keep you away from the building table. It is becoming our standard trainer for new glider pilots.

Easy Glider - $90
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXKHS7&P=0

Those are your low cost entries. Might be a good approach for a first try into a different kind of flying.

Assuming you have a launching area that is at least 800 feet, you want a
hi-start with about 100 feet of rubber and about 400 feet of line. Those
numbers can be varied based on field size, strength of the rubber and the
plane. The amount of wind also impacts the configuration.

I have used and recommend the NE Sailplane Pinnacle line of hi-starts. They
are the standard at our field.

NESail Pinnacle Standard. 100' of latex tubing and 390 feet of line. Good
for 2M through medium weight 3M planes, perhaps 70 ounces. $80
http://www.nesail.com/detail.php?productID=875

If you plan to move up to 3M planes in the next year or two, you might want
to go up a step to the Pinnacle Large which is targeted at 3M planes. This is
the standard hi-start at our field for 3M planes. However we launch light
weight 2M planes like the Cirrus, Spirit and Gentle Lady off this with
excellent results. Just don't pull it back as far. It is only a few $$ more. This would be my recommendations if you are looking to move up soon. $87
http://www.nesail.com/detail.php?productID=874

Aerofoam makes the Hosemonster line of hi-starts which have an excellent
reputation as well. I have never used one but people rave about them. I
would suggest the 2 meter competition size.
2M. Comp/100ft. rubber 500' line $110.00
3Meter/100 foot rubber 500' Line $120.00
http://www.aerofoam.com/hosemonster.html

If you want to go cheap, this will launch a 2M thorugh 100 inch plane and
perhaps light 3M RES planes. Buy this one for price. I think the
Pinnacles are a better quality. I have used the Dynaflite HD Hi-start with
good results on a Spirit and Gentle lady but I would not be confident you
could go much past a 100" plane with it. $60
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXE636&P=7


Remember that the best thermal conditions are low wind, low humidity and an area where you have differential heating. This is very much the opposite of slope soaring.

I watch the wind.

under 10 mph, I go thermal flying or I fly my parkflyer electrics.

10-15 mph - If it is not too gusty, I will fly my heavier 3M sailplanes or add ballast to my lighter planes, but thermals can be hard to find and hard to hold where I live. Wind destabalizes thermals, but they are out there. Especially if the sun is out. We have one club member who prefers these conditions as he likes the challenge.

10+ if the wind is in the right direction I might go slope soaring instead

15 mph or higher - I hope the wind is in the right direction for slope, or there will be no flying today. Honey Do list or in the workshop building/fixing/tuning. :)

[wingsnapper]

Funny you mentioned the Easy Glider Aeajr. I just can't seem to have as much sucess with mine. I had it out the other day in pretty good conditions and just couldn't stick with the lift I was finding. Decided to launch the lowley Easy Star and skied it out within minutes... I guess ailerons just aren't my bag yet. That said, I'm not giving up on her yet.
JS

[infopimp]

What a great thread. Packed with info!

[aeajr]

Funny you mentioned the Easy Glider Aeajr. I just can't seem to have as much sucess with mine. I had it out the other day in pretty good conditions and just couldn't stick with the lift I was finding. Decided to launch the lowley Easy Star and skied it out within minutes... I guess ailerons just aren't my bag yet. That said, I'm not giving up on her yet.
JS

The Easy Glider thermals very well.

Tell me about how it flies. You may have it a bit nose heavy which will make it plow through thermals.

Are you using a hi-start or a winch to launch it?

The pure glider is not much heavier than the Easy Star but has a lot more wing area so it should be able to float more slowly.

Tell me about your plane and how it flies.

[karpiloco]

hanknmorgan
the wonderer takes standard servos and radio

[Hawkmember]

man are you in for culture shock !
Get a Super AvA, it's a thermalin machine !
native Houstonian........

[flowerpower]

I've read afew good things about the dynaflight Daydream. In fact, I was convinced enough to go and purchase one for myself. Should be here tomorrow.
I'm kinda in the same boat as you. Only flew handlaunch...thats it!
I have nothing but flatland around here. With a whole lotta redtails, and vulture's using the thermals. Might as well join them :)
I was after something with good thermal ability, and if need be, could be completly be rebuild from scratch without to much fuss. The Daydream seems to fit the bill slightly better then most of the type. Not to mention the slightly better airfoil/strength when compared to others.
I guess well see how it goes!
GL with your choice.

[Doubletap]

Speaking of Easy Glider, Hobby Lobby is having a sale on their Multiplex line this week with nice discounts. Easy Gliders are $64.90, the electric version is $74.90. They have the Easy Star for $49.90. Check it out here:

http://www.hobby-lobby.com/bargain-5x5.htm

Doubletap

[aeajr]

Thanks for the link. Great sale!

[Bruce1]

Hank,
Heart of Texas Soaring Society (HOTSS) is the local soaring club and see if you can get hold of Tom Meeks as he is good people and can soar like....like....a skilled Texas Buzzard. Buzzards are our best thermal locators and they absolutely hate to flap their wings and I've watched them slope really small treelines, even 2 story buildings....waiting...just waiting for a thermal to break loose....then they catch the newly formed thermal and they're gone....they just screwed up into the bottoms of nearby clouds. We fly for fun....they fly for a living!
Welcome to Texas.

[Admiral_Red]

UH OH Hank, you are going Thermal? NO NO NO! I can hook you up with those guys later!

PM your cellular digits!

JV

[rdwoebke]

Also, does anyone make a sectional wing thermal plane? I have a small car, so I have no idea how I would transport a large thermal wing. I am a good builder, so if none are available, I am sure that I could modify one to make it a 2 piece design, but if there is one available, that would be nice. Thanks again.

Most thermal planes have sectional wings. 2 or 3 piece is common. I run a Nissan 300ZX and fit two 3 meters in it. With the tops off.

You should post what kind of budget you are on, and then look at the Art Hobby kits (they are pretty complete though, pre-skinned balsa over foam wings, pre-cut and sanded tails, etc.) and the used stuff.

I'd really suggest something polyhedral for your first attempt at thermal. But Easy Glider would probably be OK too, as it has some dihedral (and ailerons). You'll need a high start, unless there is a club you can hook up with and use the winch.

Ryan