Lowering Nitro content

[Blah]

Will it be much of a problem to go from a 20% to 15% nitro fuel? Will I need
to take any precautions for the first little while? I'm only using my t-maxx
for bashing.

[DanTXD]

"Blah" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:u6u1g.62401$VV4.1167028@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca...
> Will it be much of a problem to go from a 20% to 15% nitro fuel? Will I
> need to take any precautions for the first little while? I'm only using my
> t-maxx for bashing.
>

Nah, won't do any harm, but you might need to re-tune slightly.

--
Dan

[Dre]

"DanTXD" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:4ao452FtrgtrU1@individual.net...
> "Blah" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:u6u1g.62401$VV4.1167028@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca...
>> Will it be much of a problem to go from a 20% to 15% nitro fuel? Will I
>> need to take any precautions for the first little while? I'm only using
>> my t-maxx for bashing.
>>
>
> Nah, won't do any harm, but you might need to re-tune slightly.
>
> --
> Dan
>

I've actually heard that its bad to change nitro content from what the
engine was run in with. This is due to the different burn temps and the
piston/cylinder pinch. If the engine is run in with a fuel with a certain
nitro content, the pinch is set to that burn temp. When you change nitro
content, the temp changes, the pinch changes and you get less performance.

All of this very very badly explained and feel free to correct.

Cheers Dre

[\Doc\]

"Dre" <ausjules1977@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4446e2dc$1@patrick.nettas.net...
> "DanTXD" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
> news:4ao452FtrgtrU1@individual.net...
>> "Blah" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
>> news:u6u1g.62401$VV4.1167028@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca...
>>> Will it be much of a problem to go from a 20% to 15% nitro fuel? Will I
>>> need to take any precautions for the first little while? I'm only using
>>> my t-maxx for bashing.
>>>
>>
>> Nah, won't do any harm, but you might need to re-tune slightly.
>>
>> --
>> Dan
>>
>
> I've actually heard that its bad to change nitro content from what the
> engine was run in with. This is due to the different burn temps and the
> piston/cylinder pinch. If the engine is run in with a fuel with a certain
> nitro content, the pinch is set to that burn temp. When you change nitro
> content, the temp changes, the pinch changes and you get less performance.
>
> All of this very very badly explained and feel free to correct.
>
> Cheers Dre

If it's all a matter of temp, then the same would apply running 20% in the
winter @ 200* cylinder head temps and 20% in the summer @ 280* cylinder head
temps. Long and short, I think what you've heard is incorrect.

Doc

[Dre]

""Doc"" <nospam@noway.com> wrote in message
news:BOmdnfmzscW7ctvZRVn-gg@adelphia.com...
>
> "Dre" <ausjules1977@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:4446e2dc$1@patrick.nettas.net...
>> "DanTXD" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
>> news:4ao452FtrgtrU1@individual.net...
>>> "Blah" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
>>> news:u6u1g.62401$VV4.1167028@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca...
>>>> Will it be much of a problem to go from a 20% to 15% nitro fuel? Will I
>>>> need to take any precautions for the first little while? I'm only using
>>>> my t-maxx for bashing.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Nah, won't do any harm, but you might need to re-tune slightly.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Dan
>>>
>>
>> I've actually heard that its bad to change nitro content from what the
>> engine was run in with. This is due to the different burn temps and the
>> piston/cylinder pinch. If the engine is run in with a fuel with a
>> certain nitro content, the pinch is set to that burn temp. When you
>> change nitro content, the temp changes, the pinch changes and you get
>> less performance.
>>
>> All of this very very badly explained and feel free to correct.
>>
>> Cheers Dre
>
> If it's all a matter of temp, then the same would apply running 20% in the
> winter @ 200* cylinder head temps and 20% in the summer @ 280* cylinder
> head temps. Long and short, I think what you've heard is incorrect.
>
> Doc

Yeah I wasn't totally convinced with it all either. But the article did
have some good points. Like I said, I explained it badly. I wish I could
find the article again...

One question though, doesn't a higher percentage nitro burn hotter than a
lower content nitro?? I was under the impression this was the case..

Cheers Dre

[DanTXD]

"Dre" <ausjules1977@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4446f5ce$1@patrick.nettas.net...
> ""Doc"" <nospam@noway.com> wrote in message
> news:BOmdnfmzscW7ctvZRVn-gg@adelphia.com...
>>
>> "Dre" <ausjules1977@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:4446e2dc$1@patrick.nettas.net...
>>> "DanTXD" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
>>> news:4ao452FtrgtrU1@individual.net...
>>>> "Blah" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:u6u1g.62401$VV4.1167028@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca...
>>>>> Will it be much of a problem to go from a 20% to 15% nitro fuel? Will
>>>>> I need to take any precautions for the first little while? I'm only
>>>>> using my t-maxx for bashing.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Nah, won't do any harm, but you might need to re-tune slightly.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Dan
>>>>
>>>
>>> I've actually heard that its bad to change nitro content from what the
>>> engine was run in with. This is due to the different burn temps and the
>>> piston/cylinder pinch. If the engine is run in with a fuel with a
>>> certain nitro content, the pinch is set to that burn temp. When you
>>> change nitro content, the temp changes, the pinch changes and you get
>>> less performance.
>>>
>>> All of this very very badly explained and feel free to correct.
>>>
>>> Cheers Dre
>>
>> If it's all a matter of temp, then the same would apply running 20% in
>> the winter @ 200* cylinder head temps and 20% in the summer @ 280*
>> cylinder head temps. Long and short, I think what you've heard is
>> incorrect.
>>
>> Doc
>
> Yeah I wasn't totally convinced with it all either. But the article did
> have some good points. Like I said, I explained it badly. I wish I could
> find the article again...
>
> One question though, doesn't a higher percentage nitro burn hotter than a
> lower content nitro?? I was under the impression this was the case..
>
> Cheers Dre

It might make some difference, changing I mean, but to be fair, I've done it
loads of times and it just means a quick re-tune. If you're that bothered
about the temp been the same tho, you could just richen or lean it as
appropriate :-)

--
Dan

[Dre]

"DanTXD" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:4ap2nuFu4vg1U1@individual.net...
> "Dre" <ausjules1977@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:4446f5ce$1@patrick.nettas.net...
>> ""Doc"" <nospam@noway.com> wrote in message
>> news:BOmdnfmzscW7ctvZRVn-gg@adelphia.com...
>>>
>>> "Dre" <ausjules1977@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:4446e2dc$1@patrick.nettas.net...
>>>> "DanTXD" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
>>>> news:4ao452FtrgtrU1@individual.net...
>>>>> "Blah" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:u6u1g.62401$VV4.1167028@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca...
>>>>>> Will it be much of a problem to go from a 20% to 15% nitro fuel? Will
>>>>>> I need to take any precautions for the first little while? I'm only
>>>>>> using my t-maxx for bashing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Nah, won't do any harm, but you might need to re-tune slightly.
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Dan
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I've actually heard that its bad to change nitro content from what the
>>>> engine was run in with. This is due to the different burn temps and
>>>> the piston/cylinder pinch. If the engine is run in with a fuel with a
>>>> certain nitro content, the pinch is set to that burn temp. When you
>>>> change nitro content, the temp changes, the pinch changes and you get
>>>> less performance.
>>>>
>>>> All of this very very badly explained and feel free to correct.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers Dre
>>>
>>> If it's all a matter of temp, then the same would apply running 20% in
>>> the winter @ 200* cylinder head temps and 20% in the summer @ 280*
>>> cylinder head temps. Long and short, I think what you've heard is
>>> incorrect.
>>>
>>> Doc
>>
>> Yeah I wasn't totally convinced with it all either. But the article did
>> have some good points. Like I said, I explained it badly. I wish I
>> could find the article again...
>>
>> One question though, doesn't a higher percentage nitro burn hotter than a
>> lower content nitro?? I was under the impression this was the case..
>>
>> Cheers Dre
>
> It might make some difference, changing I mean, but to be fair, I've done
> it loads of times and it just means a quick re-tune. If you're that
> bothered about the temp been the same tho, you could just richen or lean
> it as appropriate :-)
>
> --
> Dan
To be honest its never bothered me either and I've done it to every single
engine I currently have :)

I went from 15% to 20% cause its easier to get down where I live.

Just thought I'd mention it as it sounded plausable at the time. (still
wish I could find the damn article!)

Cheers Dre

[Backbone]

"Blah" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:u6u1g.62401$VV4.1167028@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca...
> Will it be much of a problem to go from a 20% to 15% nitro fuel? Will I
need
> to take any precautions for the first little while? I'm only using my
t-maxx
> for bashing.

If the engine manufacture recommends 20% then your best bet is to stick with
what the manufacture calls for - Take into account that the timing of the
engine is a combination of compression ratio, the flash-point of the fuel,
and the glow plug characteristics.i.e. you risk loss of power as well as the
possibility of engine seizure!

[\Doc\]

"Backbone" <backboneaccessflaps@flapsverizon.net> wrote in message
news:ILWdnTokO_Idd9TZRVn-rg@giganews.com...
> "Blah" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:u6u1g.62401$VV4.1167028@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca...
>> Will it be much of a problem to go from a 20% to 15% nitro fuel? Will I
> need
>> to take any precautions for the first little while? I'm only using my
> t-maxx
>> for bashing.
>
> If the engine manufacture recommends 20% then your best bet is to stick
> with
> what the manufacture calls for - Take into account that the timing of the
> engine is a combination of compression ratio, the flash-point of the fuel,
> and the glow plug characteristics.i.e. you risk loss of power as well as
> the
> possibility of engine seizure!

Engine seizure? Do tell..........................<g>

Doc

[Backbone]

""Doc"" <nospam@noway.com> wrote in message
news:H_idnULNBecy2tfZnZ2dnUVZ_t6dnZ2d@adelphia.com ...
>
> "Backbone" <backboneaccessflaps@flapsverizon.net> wrote in message
> news:ILWdnTokO_Idd9TZRVn-rg@giganews.com...
> > "Blah" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
> > news:u6u1g.62401$VV4.1167028@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca...
> >> Will it be much of a problem to go from a 20% to 15% nitro fuel? Will I
> > need
> >> to take any precautions for the first little while? I'm only using my
> > t-maxx
> >> for bashing.
> >
> > If the engine manufacture recommends 20% then your best bet is to stick
> > with
> > what the manufacture calls for - Take into account that the timing of
the
> > engine is a combination of compression ratio, the flash-point of the
fuel,
> > and the glow plug characteristics.i.e. you risk loss of power as well as
> > the
> > possibility of engine seizure!
>
> Engine seizure? Do tell..........................<g>

sure if you advance the timing!! or better yet change the oil to fuel
ratio!!

Glow engines run at about 14 parts nitro/castrol oil mixture to one part
air! By changing the fuel to 15% you change the characteristics of that
engines design, thus causing unwanted results!!

15% nitro fuel is primarily designed for aircraft glow engines and thus
carries a lower oil to fuel ratio! Aircraft glow engines don't require the
amounts of fuel to oil ratios that is often required in an on-road or
off-road glow engine....

[Backbone]

"Backbone" <backboneaccessflaps@flapsverizon.net> wrote in message
news:kKidnTqEvYn6xdfZ4p2dnA@giganews.com...
>
> ""Doc"" <nospam@noway.com> wrote in message
> news:H_idnULNBecy2tfZnZ2dnUVZ_t6dnZ2d@adelphia.com ...
> >
> > "Backbone" <backboneaccessflaps@flapsverizon.net> wrote in message
> > news:ILWdnTokO_Idd9TZRVn-rg@giganews.com...
> > > "Blah" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
> > > news:u6u1g.62401$VV4.1167028@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca...
> > >> Will it be much of a problem to go from a 20% to 15% nitro fuel? Will
I
> > > need
> > >> to take any precautions for the first little while? I'm only using my
> > > t-maxx
> > >> for bashing.
> > >
> > > If the engine manufacture recommends 20% then your best bet is to
stick
> > > with
> > > what the manufacture calls for - Take into account that the timing of
> the
> > > engine is a combination of compression ratio, the flash-point of the
> fuel,
> > > and the glow plug characteristics.i.e. you risk loss of power as well
as
> > > the
> > > possibility of engine seizure!
> >
> > Engine seizure? Do tell..........................<g>
>
> sure if you advance the timing!! or better yet change the oil to fuel
> ratio!!


oops: next line is backwards i.e. should be 14 parts air to one part fuel
mixture!!

> Glow engines run at about 14 parts nitro/castrol oil mixture to one part
> air! By changing the fuel to 15% you change the characteristics of that
> engines design, thus causing unwanted results!!
>
> 15% nitro fuel is primarily designed for aircraft glow engines and thus
> carries a lower oil to fuel ratio! Aircraft glow engines don't require the
> amounts of fuel to oil ratios that is often required in an on-road or
> off-road glow engine....

[looking]

Are you sure of these ratios? Gasoline race engines (full size, not models)
run at 14:1. when we convert to Alcohol, consumption doubles. Since model
fuel is part nitro, mostly alcohol, wouldn't it be closer to 7:1?

Secondly, The nitro content wont alter the amount of fuel, yet the
volatility will change, which could have an effect on theoretic timing.

The catch to the timing deal is there is no ignition system to alter the
timing. The engines basically diesel there way through life. The point at
which combustion occurs is relative to when there is enough compression to
ignite the mixture.

But then again, I might be talkin out of my arse...

GERRY


"Backbone" <backboneaccessflaps@flapsverizon.net> wrote in message
news:_4-dnQFrnuZMxtfZRVn-rQ@giganews.com...
>
> "Backbone" <backboneaccessflaps@flapsverizon.net> wrote in message
> news:kKidnTqEvYn6xdfZ4p2dnA@giganews.com...
>>
>> ""Doc"" <nospam@noway.com> wrote in message
>> news:H_idnULNBecy2tfZnZ2dnUVZ_t6dnZ2d@adelphia.com ...
>> >
>> > "Backbone" <backboneaccessflaps@flapsverizon.net> wrote in message
>> > news:ILWdnTokO_Idd9TZRVn-rg@giganews.com...
>> > > "Blah" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
>> > > news:u6u1g.62401$VV4.1167028@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca...
>> > >> Will it be much of a problem to go from a 20% to 15% nitro fuel?
>> > >> Will
> I
>> > > need
>> > >> to take any precautions for the first little while? I'm only using
>> > >> my
>> > > t-maxx
>> > >> for bashing.
>> > >
>> > > If the engine manufacture recommends 20% then your best bet is to
> stick
>> > > with
>> > > what the manufacture calls for - Take into account that the timing of
>> the
>> > > engine is a combination of compression ratio, the flash-point of the
>> fuel,
>> > > and the glow plug characteristics.i.e. you risk loss of power as well
> as
>> > > the
>> > > possibility of engine seizure!
>> >
>> > Engine seizure? Do tell..........................<g>
>>
>> sure if you advance the timing!! or better yet change the oil to fuel
>> ratio!!
>
>
> oops: next line is backwards i.e. should be 14 parts air to one part fuel
> mixture!!
>
>> Glow engines run at about 14 parts nitro/castrol oil mixture to one part
>> air! By changing the fuel to 15% you change the characteristics of that
>> engines design, thus causing unwanted results!!
>>
>> 15% nitro fuel is primarily designed for aircraft glow engines and thus
>> carries a lower oil to fuel ratio! Aircraft glow engines don't require
>> the
>> amounts of fuel to oil ratios that is often required in an on-road or
>> off-road glow engine....
>
>
>

[Backbone]

"looking" <nunya@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2Bu2g.11869$P2.10387@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com.. .
> Are you sure of these ratios? Gasoline race engines (full size, not
models)
> run at 14:1. when we convert to Alcohol, consumption doubles. Since model

More like 14.7:1!!

> fuel is part nitro, mostly alcohol, wouldn't it be closer to 7:1?

NO!

> Secondly, The nitro content wont alter the amount of fuel, yet the
> volatility will change, which could have an effect on theoretic timing.

20% Nitro = 20% castrol oil, about 10% nitromethane, about 70% would be
methanol and the manufactures secret additives!

> The catch to the timing deal is there is no ignition system to alter the
> timing. The engines basically diesel there way through life. The point at
> which combustion occurs is relative to when there is enough compression to
> ignite the mixture.

here's a great site that may help you!

http://wwnh.net/content/view/36/1/

[Tom B]

"Backbone" wrote:
> 20% Nitro = 20% castrol oil, about >10% nitromethane, about 70% would be
> methanol and the manufactures secret >additives!

Fuel rated at 20% Nitro contains 20% Nitromethane (or at least it should),
not 10% . It may or may not contain 20% lubricant. It may or may not
contain any castrol oil. Castrol is a brand name.

Tom

[GTD]

On Sat, 22 Apr 2006 17:02:54 -0700, "Backbone"
<backboneaccessflaps@flapsverizon.net> wrote:

>
>"looking" <nunya@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:2Bu2g.11869$P2.10387@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com.. .
>> Are you sure of these ratios? Gasoline race engines (full size, not
>models)
>> run at 14:1. when we convert to Alcohol, consumption doubles. Since model
>
>More like 14.7:1!!
Wrong, , ,, , This: http://www.eere.energy.gov/afdc/pdfs/fueltable.pdf
will show you that more than twice as much methanol is needed than
gasoline.. . . .6.45:1 to be exact as opposed to Gasoline's 14.7:1. .
.. Nitromethane requires a 1.7:1 ratio for efficient combustion. . .use
a mix of 80% methanol and 20% nitro, and your optimum ratio would be
5.5:1. . .
Of course that will change some once you add the oil to the mix. . .
..not sure how though. ..


>
>> fuel is part nitro, mostly alcohol, wouldn't it be closer to 7:1?
>
>NO!

Uhhh, YES. . ..


>
>> Secondly, The nitro content wont alter the amount of fuel, yet the
>> volatility will change, which could have an effect on theoretic timing.
>
>20% Nitro = 20% castrol oil, about 10% nitromethane, about 70% would be
>methanol and the manufactures secret additives!
Changing the nitro content WILL change the required needle settings. .
.. the more nitro in the fuel, ,, the more fuel is needed (or rather,
the less air is needed). . ..

20% Nitro means that 20% of the fuel is , , , ,nitromethane. .. .
Nitro content has little to do with oil content. . .

BTW, It's CASTOR oil, ,, , not CASTROL, ,, , ,

Castor oil is a vegetable oil made from teh castor bean, , , ,CASTROL
is the brand name of a oil-product manufacturing company. . .

Dig around Here: http://www.morganfuel.com for some info on fuel
blends. . .


>
>> The catch to the timing deal is there is no ignition system to alter the
>> timing. The engines basically diesel there way through life. The point at
>> which combustion occurs is relative to when there is enough compression to
>> ignite the mixture.
>
>here's a great site that may help you!
>
>http://wwnh.net/content/view/36/1/



>

[looking]

So, my original post (Reposted below) is at least close to correct?

*Are you sure of these ratios? Gasoline race engines (full size, not
models)
*run at 14:1. when we convert to Alcohol, consumption doubles. Since model
*fuel is part nitro, mostly alcohol, wouldn't it be closer to 7:1?

*Secondly, The nitro content wont alter the amount of fuel, yet the
*volatility will change, which could have an effect on theoretic timing.

*The catch to the timing deal is there is no ignition system to alter the
*timing. The engines basically diesel there way through life. The point at
*which combustion occurs is relative to when there is enough compression to
*ignite the mixture.

"GTD" <stooopid@duuuh.net> wrote in message
news:8bnl42plg3p6rfqmdatbqcheah212ovcrj@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 22 Apr 2006 17:02:54 -0700, "Backbone"
> <backboneaccessflaps@flapsverizon.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>"looking" <nunya@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>news:2Bu2g.11869$P2.10387@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com.. .
>>> Are you sure of these ratios? Gasoline race engines (full size, not
>>models)
>>> run at 14:1. when we convert to Alcohol, consumption doubles. Since
>>> model
>>


>>More like 14.7:1!!
> Wrong, , ,, , This: http://www.eere.energy.gov/afdc/pdfs/fueltable.pdf
> will show you that more than twice as much methanol is needed than
> gasoline.. . . .6.45:1 to be exact as opposed to Gasoline's 14.7:1. .
> . Nitromethane requires a 1.7:1 ratio for efficient combustion. . .use
> a mix of 80% methanol and 20% nitro, and your optimum ratio would be
> 5.5:1. . .
> Of course that will change some once you add the oil to the mix. . .
> .not sure how though. ..
>
>
>>
>>> fuel is part nitro, mostly alcohol, wouldn't it be closer to 7:1?
>>
>>NO!
>
> Uhhh, YES. . ..
>
>
>>
>>> Secondly, The nitro content wont alter the amount of fuel, yet the
>>> volatility will change, which could have an effect on theoretic timing.
>>
>>20% Nitro = 20% castrol oil, about 10% nitromethane, about 70% would be
>>methanol and the manufactures secret additives!
> Changing the nitro content WILL change the required needle settings. .
> . the more nitro in the fuel, ,, the more fuel is needed (or rather,
> the less air is needed). . ..
>
> 20% Nitro means that 20% of the fuel is , , , ,nitromethane. .. .
> Nitro content has little to do with oil content. . .
>
> BTW, It's CASTOR oil, ,, , not CASTROL, ,, , ,
>
> Castor oil is a vegetable oil made from teh castor bean, , , ,CASTROL
> is the brand name of a oil-product manufacturing company. . .
>
> Dig around Here: http://www.morganfuel.com for some info on fuel
> blends. . .
>
>
>>
>>> The catch to the timing deal is there is no ignition system to alter the
>>> timing. The engines basically diesel there way through life. The point
>>> at
>>> which combustion occurs is relative to when there is enough compression
>>> to
>>> ignite the mixture.
>>
>>here's a great site that may help you!
>>
>>http://wwnh.net/content/view/36/1/
>
>
>
>>

[\Doc\]

"Backbone" <backboneaccessflaps@flapsverizon.net> wrote in message
news:kKidnTqEvYn6xdfZ4p2dnA@giganews.com...

>> Engine seizure? Do tell..........................<g>
>
> sure if you advance the timing!! or better yet change the oil to fuel
> ratio!!
>
> Glow engines run at about 14 parts nitro/castrol oil mixture to one part
> air! By changing the fuel to 15% you change the characteristics of that
> engines design, thus causing unwanted results!!
>
> 15% nitro fuel is primarily designed for aircraft glow engines and thus
> carries a lower oil to fuel ratio! Aircraft glow engines don't require the
> amounts of fuel to oil ratios that is often required in an on-road or
> off-road glow engine....

You took the bait, and the conversation that ensued between you and other
more knowledgeable members of this forum proved you have no clue what you're
talking about. Perhaps you should stick to giving advice on subjects you
are knowledgeable in?

Doc

[GTD]

On Sun, 23 Apr 2006 03:18:47 GMT, "looking" <nunya@hotmail.com> wrote:

>So, my original post (Reposted below) is at least close to correct?
>
>*Are you sure of these ratios? Gasoline race engines (full size, not
>models)
>*run at 14:1. when we convert to Alcohol, consumption doubles. Since model
>*fuel is part nitro, mostly alcohol, wouldn't it be closer to 7:1?
>
>*Secondly, The nitro content wont alter the amount of fuel, yet the
>*volatility will change, which could have an effect on theoretic timing.
>
>*The catch to the timing deal is there is no ignition system to alter the
>*timing. The engines basically diesel there way through life. The point at
>*which combustion occurs is relative to when there is enough compression to
>*ignite the mixture.
>
Yes, prtetty close. The only thing missing, is that any given tune
will be leaner if you change to a fuel with a higher nitromethane
percentage. You can figure this out like this:

90% methanol and 10% nitromethane:
6.45 X .90 = 5.805 (methanol) + 1.7 X .10 = .17 (Nitromethane) = 6.505

So a 10% Nitro mix would be optimum at 6.505 parts air for every part
of fuel. . .

A 30% mix would be like this:
6.45 X .70 = 4.515 (methanol) + 1.7 X .30 = .51(Nitromethane) = 5.025

30% Nitro mix would be optimum at 5.025 parts air for every part of
fuel. . .

Like I said before, The lubricant will change this, , , ,not sure how
though.

One way to look at it is that higher percentage fuel makes the tune
leaner, and if you don't adjust for it, the engine will run hotter,
and thus, the timing will appear to be advanced, since ignition will
occour sooner in the cycle. . .

[Backbone]

> Wrong, , ,, , This: http://www.eere.energy.gov/afdc/pdfs/fueltable.pdf
> will show you that more than twice as much methanol is needed than
> gasoline.. . . .6.45:1 to be exact as opposed to Gasoline's 14.7:1. .
> . Nitromethane requires a 1.7:1 ratio for efficient combustion. . .use

That's true and thus at the stochiometric 1.7:1 air/fuel mixture for
nitromethane the flame temp. is around 7000 degrees F!!! Manufactures use
methanol to dilute nitromethane down to a better more desirable temp/power
output level



Adding oil as well the manufactures secret additives increases the amount of
airflow needed to produce the bang needed for it's particular application -
perhaps something like 14:1 idono the exact ratio am not a chemist.



Not interested in arguing with you - the point of the matter is that the OP
should stick with the manufactures recommended fuel rather than changing to
15% Nitro for better fuel economy!

[Backbone]

"Tom B" <im1bad1@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:lZSdnfBEYbXgT9fZ4p2dnA@adelphia.com...
> "Backbone" wrote:
> > 20% Nitro = 20% castrol oil, about >10% nitromethane, about 70% would
be
> > methanol and the manufactures secret >additives!
>
> Fuel rated at 20% Nitro contains 20% Nitromethane (or at least it should),
> not 10% . It may or may not contain 20% lubricant. It may or may not
> contain any castrol oil. Castrol is a brand name.

LOL - your absolutely correct I got it backwards - c'mon you guys you know
what I mean castor oil not castrol oil!! It's an aging thing - my memory
has been going south for the past few years! ;-)

[Backbone]

""Doc"" <nospam@noway.com> wrote in message
news:P5-dnZHCSfdhntbZRVn-qQ@adelphia.com...
>
> "Backbone" <backboneaccessflaps@flapsverizon.net> wrote in message
> news:kKidnTqEvYn6xdfZ4p2dnA@giganews.com...
>
> >> Engine seizure? Do tell..........................<g>
> >
> > sure if you advance the timing!! or better yet change the oil to fuel
> > ratio!!
> >
> > Glow engines run at about 14 parts nitro/castrol oil mixture to one
part
> > air! By changing the fuel to 15% you change the characteristics of that
> > engines design, thus causing unwanted results!!
> >
> > 15% nitro fuel is primarily designed for aircraft glow engines and thus
> > carries a lower oil to fuel ratio! Aircraft glow engines don't require
the
> > amounts of fuel to oil ratios that is often required in an on-road or
> > off-road glow engine....
>
> You took the bait, and the conversation that ensued between you and other
> more knowledgeable members of this forum proved you have no clue what
you're
> talking about. Perhaps you should stick to giving advice on subjects you
> are knowledgeable in?

Huh! Troll - PLONK!!!

[GTD]

On Sat, 22 Apr 2006 23:18:40 -0700, "Backbone"
<backboneaccessflaps@flapsverizon.net> wrote:

>> Wrong, , ,, , This: http://www.eere.energy.gov/afdc/pdfs/fueltable.pdf
>> will show you that more than twice as much methanol is needed than
>> gasoline.. . . .6.45:1 to be exact as opposed to Gasoline's 14.7:1. .
>> . Nitromethane requires a 1.7:1 ratio for efficient combustion. . .use
>
>That's true and thus at the stochiometric 1.7:1 air/fuel mixture for
>nitromethane the flame temp. is around 7000 degrees F!!! Manufactures use
>methanol to dilute nitromethane down to a better more desirable temp/power
>output level
>
>
>
>Adding oil as well the manufactures secret additives increases the amount of
>airflow needed to produce the bang needed for it's particular application -
>perhaps something like 14:1 idono the exact ratio am not a chemist.
>
You are still wrong. .. . You are saying that once a manufacturer adds
16% or so oil into the batch, that they require less than half as much
fuel in the mix. . . .in all reality they should need MORE, since the
fuel is being diluted with oil. . . .

Please. . . .show us some references, , , , where did you get 14:1
from?

The reason I am persuing this discussion, , ,is because
mis-information in this perticular catogory is liable to cost someone
money. I for one am all for keeping this NG full of FACTS, , ,not
opinions labeled as facts. . .
>
>
>Not interested in arguing with you - the point of the matter is that the OP
>should stick with the manufactures recommended fuel rather than changing to
>15% Nitro for better fuel economy!
>
There is no reason to do so, ,, , you are spreading false information.
.. . .. And, , , ,the manufacturer reccomends 10% - 20%, so the OP is
NOT going against that. . .Who mentioned fuel economy?

[Richard]

"Backbone" <backboneaccessflaps@flapsverizon.net> wrote in message
news:vNmdnVE4wa8MgNbZRVn-og@giganews.com...
> ""Doc"" <nospam@noway.com> wrote in message
> news:P5-dnZHCSfdhntbZRVn-qQ@adelphia.com...
> >
> > "Backbone" <backboneaccessflaps@flapsverizon.net> wrote in message
> > news:kKidnTqEvYn6xdfZ4p2dnA@giganews.com...
> >
> > >> Engine seizure? Do tell..........................<g>
> > >
> > > sure if you advance the timing!! or better yet change the oil to fuel
> > > ratio!!
> > >
> > > Glow engines run at about 14 parts nitro/castrol oil mixture to one
> part
> > > air! By changing the fuel to 15% you change the characteristics of
that
> > > engines design, thus causing unwanted results!!
> > >
> > > 15% nitro fuel is primarily designed for aircraft glow engines and
thus
> > > carries a lower oil to fuel ratio! Aircraft glow engines don't require
> the
> > > amounts of fuel to oil ratios that is often required in an on-road or
> > > off-road glow engine....
> >
> > You took the bait, and the conversation that ensued between you and
other
> > more knowledgeable members of this forum proved you have no clue what
> you're
> > talking about. Perhaps you should stick to giving advice on subjects
you
> > are knowledgeable in?
>
> Huh! Troll - PLONK!!!


I'm still trying to figure out how 15% nitro fuel is primarily designed for
aircraft glow engines. I can understand how 15% nitro fuel with a oil
content suited to aircraft engines is suited to aircraft engines but why
would all fuel be the same and be designed for the one form of model
engine???

Confused???


Cheers
Richard

[\Doc\]

"Richard" <DK@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:444b5e3b$1@quokka.wn.com.au...

> I'm still trying to figure out how 15% nitro fuel is primarily designed
> for
> aircraft glow engines. I can understand how 15% nitro fuel with a oil
> content suited to aircraft engines is suited to aircraft engines but why
> would all fuel be the same and be designed for the one form of model
> engine???
>
> Confused???
>
>
> Cheers
> Richard

You're confused because what you were told was wrong. 15% nitro fuel is NOT
primarily designed for aircraft glow engines. I know alot of guys who run
15% in their land vehicles because it's cheaper than 20% and they don't
really care about the added performance 20% offers for backyard bashing
purposes. Hell, you could run 10% in your stuff if you really wanted to.

The main concern with any fuel is OIL content, and that is what
differentiates land vs. aircraft fuels. Land fuels are typically 18% oil or
lower, whereas air fuels are typically 18% or higher. Oil content (or
rather lack thereof) is what can cause an engine to grenade. Granted, too
much nitro will snap a rod if the compression ratio isn't lowered by adding
head shims, but this is rare.

When switching between nitro contents, say anywhere from 10-25% in a land
vehicle, all that is required is a quick retune and maybe a different glow
plug suited to the cooler/hotter fuel to keep the ignition timing in sync.
It will not blow up your engine as suggested by other posters on here. Does
your 1:1 scale car or truck blow up when you switch from 89-93 octane?

Doc

[looking]

Ahh Cooler, more informed minds reign.....

Ive built a buch of 1000 hp plus chevys, and thought the same principles
applied...

GERRY


""Doc"" <nospam@noway.com> wrote in message
news:6oKdnbn8AriNOtbZnZ2dnUVZ_v6dnZ2d@adelphia.com ...
>
> "Richard" <DK@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:444b5e3b$1@quokka.wn.com.au...
>
>> I'm still trying to figure out how 15% nitro fuel is primarily designed
>> for
>> aircraft glow engines. I can understand how 15% nitro fuel with a oil
>> content suited to aircraft engines is suited to aircraft engines but why
>> would all fuel be the same and be designed for the one form of model
>> engine???
>>
>> Confused???
>>
>>
>> Cheers
>> Richard
>
> You're confused because what you were told was wrong. 15% nitro fuel is
> NOT primarily designed for aircraft glow engines. I know alot of guys who
> run 15% in their land vehicles because it's cheaper than 20% and they
> don't really care about the added performance 20% offers for backyard
> bashing purposes. Hell, you could run 10% in your stuff if you really
> wanted to.
>
> The main concern with any fuel is OIL content, and that is what
> differentiates land vs. aircraft fuels. Land fuels are typically 18% oil
> or lower, whereas air fuels are typically 18% or higher. Oil content (or
> rather lack thereof) is what can cause an engine to grenade. Granted, too
> much nitro will snap a rod if the compression ratio isn't lowered by
> adding head shims, but this is rare.
>
> When switching between nitro contents, say anywhere from 10-25% in a land
> vehicle, all that is required is a quick retune and maybe a different glow
> plug suited to the cooler/hotter fuel to keep the ignition timing in sync.
> It will not blow up your engine as suggested by other posters on here.
> Does your 1:1 scale car or truck blow up when you switch from 89-93
> octane?
>
> Doc
>

[Backbone]

"Richard" <DK@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:444b5e3b$1@quokka.wn.com.au...
>
> "Backbone" <backboneaccessflaps@flapsverizon.net> wrote in message
> news:vNmdnVE4wa8MgNbZRVn-og@giganews.com...
> > ""Doc"" <nospam@noway.com> wrote in message
> > news:P5-dnZHCSfdhntbZRVn-qQ@adelphia.com...
> > >
> > > "Backbone" <backboneaccessflaps@flapsverizon.net> wrote in message
> > > news:kKidnTqEvYn6xdfZ4p2dnA@giganews.com...
> > >
> > > >> Engine seizure? Do tell..........................<g>
> > > >
> > > > sure if you advance the timing!! or better yet change the oil to
fuel
> > > > ratio!!
> > > >
> > > > Glow engines run at about 14 parts nitro/castrol oil mixture to one
> > part
> > > > air! By changing the fuel to 15% you change the characteristics of
> that
> > > > engines design, thus causing unwanted results!!
> > > >
> > > > 15% nitro fuel is primarily designed for aircraft glow engines and
> thus
> > > > carries a lower oil to fuel ratio! Aircraft glow engines don't
require
> > the
> > > > amounts of fuel to oil ratios that is often required in an on-road
or
> > > > off-road glow engine....
> > >
> > > You took the bait, and the conversation that ensued between you and
> other
> > > more knowledgeable members of this forum proved you have no clue what
> > you're
> > > talking about. Perhaps you should stick to giving advice on subjects
> you
> > > are knowledgeable in?
> >
> > Huh! Troll - PLONK!!!
>
>
> I'm still trying to figure out how 15% nitro fuel is primarily designed
for
> aircraft glow engines. I can understand how 15% nitro fuel with a oil
> content suited to aircraft engines is suited to aircraft engines but why
> would all fuel be the same and be designed for the one form of model
> engine???
>
> Confused???

http://www.rchobbies.org/understanding_fuel.htm

a much nicer bunch of people over here >>
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/forumid_225/tt.htm

[Backbone]

"GTD" <stooopid@duuuh.net> wrote in message
news:jv9m42taa3u32sva2v8np5btuff0sbpgmh@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 22 Apr 2006 23:18:40 -0700, "Backbone"
> <backboneaccessflaps@flapsverizon.net> wrote:
>
> >> Wrong, , ,, , This: http://www.eere.energy.gov/afdc/pdfs/fueltable.pdf
> >> will show you that more than twice as much methanol is needed than
> >> gasoline.. . . .6.45:1 to be exact as opposed to Gasoline's 14.7:1. .
> >> . Nitromethane requires a 1.7:1 ratio for efficient combustion. . .use
> >
> >That's true and thus at the stochiometric 1.7:1 air/fuel mixture for
> >nitromethane the flame temp. is around 7000 degrees F!!! Manufactures
use
> >methanol to dilute nitromethane down to a better more desirable
temp/power
> >output level
> >
> >
> >
> >Adding oil as well the manufactures secret additives increases the amount
of
> >airflow needed to produce the bang needed for it's particular
application -
> >perhaps something like 14:1 idono the exact ratio am not a chemist.
> >
> You are still wrong. .. . You are saying that once a manufacturer adds
> 16% or so oil into the batch, that they require less than half as much
> fuel in the mix. . . .in all reality they should need MORE, since the
> fuel is being diluted with oil. . . .
>
> Please. . . .show us some references, , , , where did you get 14:1
> from?

LOL I made it up! perhaps is lower I don't know - you guys are a bit too
much - LOL
Experience and common sense tells me that it's something like that


Hypothetically, if it were something like 8:1 which would mean that there's
quite a bit of fuel in the engines crankcase as well as its combustion
chamber. How long do you suppose this would last in a rc application @
24000 - 36000 rpms??

> The reason I am persuing this discussion, , ,is because
> mis-information in this perticular catogory is liable to cost someone
> money. I for one am all for keeping this NG full of FACTS, , ,not
> opinions labeled as facts. . .
> >
> >
> >Not interested in arguing with you - the point of the matter is that the
OP
> >should stick with the manufactures recommended fuel rather than changing
to
> >15% Nitro for better fuel economy!
> >
> There is no reason to do so, ,, , you are spreading false information.

NO!!! Again 15% is made for aircraft and not for on-road vehicles!!

> . . .. And, , , ,the manufacturer reccomends 10% - 20%, so the OP is
> NOT going against that. . .Who mentioned fuel economy?

Perhaps you misread the manufactures recommendations i.e. it's NOT 10 to 20%
which would include 15%!!
More like 10, 16, 20, 30, 35% and even higher levels are made for on-road
vehicles!!

I don't know as the reason why am not the manufacture nor am I a chemist and
not going to sit here and explain something that I don't know that much
about.

[Backbone]

"GTD" <stooopid@duuuh.net> wrote in message
news:espn421ctoh915q0dhs08odh39hchcgtq2@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 23 Apr 2006 09:41:37 -0700, "Backbone"
> <backboneaccessflaps@flapsverizon.net> wrote:
>
> >"GTD" <stooopid@duuuh.net> wrote in message
> >news:jv9m42taa3u32sva2v8np5btuff0sbpgmh@4ax.com...
> >> On Sat, 22 Apr 2006 23:18:40 -0700, "Backbone"
> >> <backboneaccessflaps@flapsverizon.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> >> Wrong, , ,, , This:
http://www.eere.energy.gov/afdc/pdfs/fueltable.pdf
> >> >> will show you that more than twice as much methanol is needed than
> >> >> gasoline.. . . .6.45:1 to be exact as opposed to Gasoline's 14.7:1.
..
> >> >> . Nitromethane requires a 1.7:1 ratio for efficient combustion. .
..use
> >> >
> >> >That's true and thus at the stochiometric 1.7:1 air/fuel mixture for
> >> >nitromethane the flame temp. is around 7000 degrees F!!! Manufactures
> >use
> >> >methanol to dilute nitromethane down to a better more desirable
> >temp/power
> >> >output level
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >Adding oil as well the manufactures secret additives increases the
amount
> >of
> >> >airflow needed to produce the bang needed for it's particular
> >application -
> >> >perhaps something like 14:1 idono the exact ratio am not a chemist.
> >> >
> >> You are still wrong. .. . You are saying that once a manufacturer adds
> >> 16% or so oil into the batch, that they require less than half as much
> >> fuel in the mix. . . .in all reality they should need MORE, since the
> >> fuel is being diluted with oil. . . .
> >>
> >> Please. . . .show us some references, , , , where did you get 14:1
> >> from?
> >
> >LOL I made it up! perhaps is lower I don't know - you guys are a bit too
> >much - LOL
> >Experience and common sense tells me that it's something like that
> Well, your experience and common sense has failed you then, because
> you are wrong. . . .
> Where exactly did you get the 14:1 from?

From mathematical computations!

> >
> >Hypothetically, if it were something like 8:1 which would mean that
there's
> >quite a bit of fuel in the engines crankcase as well as its combustion
> >chamber. How long do you suppose this would last in a rc application @
> >24000 - 36000 rpms??
>
> I am not sure what you are trying to say there. . . .yes, , there will
> be fuel in the crankcase and combustion chamber, , ,that is how these
> engines run. .. . how long do I suppose it will last. .. . well, , , ,
> as long as there is fuel available, , ,a properly working glow plug
> and resonable tempatures, , ,for as long as it can. . . ..

If I explain it to you you'll discount as being utter nonsence i.e. I'm not
going to go thru the trouble - so I give the plate to you i.e. use your
knowledge and figure it out for yourself... your findings may astonish you!

> >> The reason I am persuing this discussion, , ,is because
> >> mis-information in this perticular catogory is liable to cost someone
> >> money. I for one am all for keeping this NG full of FACTS, , ,not
> >> opinions labeled as facts. . .
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >Not interested in arguing with you - the point of the matter is that
the
> >OP
> >> >should stick with the manufactures recommended fuel rather than
changing
> >to
> >> >15% Nitro for better fuel economy!
> >> >
> >> There is no reason to do so, ,, , you are spreading false information.
> >
> >NO!!! Again 15% is made for aircraft and not for on-road vehicles!!
>
> WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG
> WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG! Jees. .. You can find ANY
> nitro % fuel designed for ANY application.....There is 15% general
> purpose fule, truck/buggy fuel, , aero fuel, and heli fuel. Here are
> some examples. .. . .

Sorry but your misinformed! 15% nitro is made for aircraft and the general
purpose 15% nitro fuel you refer to is for flying things, aircraft or
perhaps copters and has never been made for land vehicles.

> http://www.morganfuel.com/cp_blends.htm
> http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXJC49&P=0
>
http://www.looksmartsportsautos.com/p/articles/mi_qa3825/is_200207/ai_n9113753
>
> If you want people to believe what you post, , ,link to some
> supporting documentation. . . .

Those three links support what I have been saying all along i.e. 15% Nitro
is for aircraft only!!!

Try this because I am sure that these people are a bit more knowledgeable
that you are. Try telling this to your LHS and see what they tell you. Any
LHS will say the exact same thing I keep trying to tell you, 15% Nitro has
and always will be made for just Aircraft and anything else that flies.
However, as you can see from the links above there are manufactures that
provide 10% and 16% nitro fuels made just for land based vehicles! I know
this sounds a bit crazy but whether you like it or not that's the way it is
and has always been!!!!!

[GTD]

On Sun, 23 Apr 2006 16:44:23 -0700, "Backbone"
<backboneaccessflaps@flapsverizon.net> wrote:

>"GTD" <stooopid@duuuh.net> wrote in message
>news:espn421ctoh915q0dhs08odh39hchcgtq2@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 23 Apr 2006 09:41:37 -0700, "Backbone"
>> <backboneaccessflaps@flapsverizon.net> wrote:
>>
>> >"GTD" <stooopid@duuuh.net> wrote in message
>> >news:jv9m42taa3u32sva2v8np5btuff0sbpgmh@4ax.com...
>> >> On Sat, 22 Apr 2006 23:18:40 -0700, "Backbone"
>> >> <backboneaccessflaps@flapsverizon.net> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >> Wrong, , ,, , This:
>http://www.eere.energy.gov/afdc/pdfs/fueltable.pdf
>> >> >> will show you that more than twice as much methanol is needed than
>> >> >> gasoline.. . . .6.45:1 to be exact as opposed to Gasoline's 14.7:1.
>.
>> >> >> . Nitromethane requires a 1.7:1 ratio for efficient combustion. .
>.use
>> >> >
>> >> >That's true and thus at the stochiometric 1.7:1 air/fuel mixture for
>> >> >nitromethane the flame temp. is around 7000 degrees F!!! Manufactures
>> >use
>> >> >methanol to dilute nitromethane down to a better more desirable
>> >temp/power
>> >> >output level
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >Adding oil as well the manufactures secret additives increases the
>amount
>> >of
>> >> >airflow needed to produce the bang needed for it's particular
>> >application -
>> >> >perhaps something like 14:1 idono the exact ratio am not a chemist.
>> >> >
>> >> You are still wrong. .. . You are saying that once a manufacturer adds
>> >> 16% or so oil into the batch, that they require less than half as much
>> >> fuel in the mix. . . .in all reality they should need MORE, since the
>> >> fuel is being diluted with oil. . . .
>> >>
>> >> Please. . . .show us some references, , , , where did you get 14:1
>> >> from?
>> >
>> >LOL I made it up! perhaps is lower I don't know - you guys are a bit too
>> >much - LOL
>> >Experience and common sense tells me that it's something like that
>> Well, your experience and common sense has failed you then, because
>> you are wrong. . . .
>> Where exactly did you get the 14:1 from?
>
>From mathematical computations!

Then post it. . . .. . .


>
>> >
>> >Hypothetically, if it were something like 8:1 which would mean that
>there's
>> >quite a bit of fuel in the engines crankcase as well as its combustion
>> >chamber. How long do you suppose this would last in a rc application @
>> >24000 - 36000 rpms??
>>
>> I am not sure what you are trying to say there. . . .yes, , there will
>> be fuel in the crankcase and combustion chamber, , ,that is how these
>> engines run. .. . how long do I suppose it will last. .. . well, , , ,
>> as long as there is fuel available, , ,a properly working glow plug
>> and resonable tempatures, , ,for as long as it can. . . ..
>
>If I explain it to you you'll discount as being utter nonsence i.e. I'm not
>going to go thru the trouble - so I give the plate to you i.e. use your
>knowledge and figure it out for yourself... your findings may astonish you!

There's nothing left to figure out, , ,you've not proven anything,
you've not posted your calculations (I have), you have not provided
any backup documentation (I have). You expect me, after all that, to
prove your case for you, , , , which you can't even do yourself?



>
>> >> The reason I am persuing this discussion, , ,is because
>> >> mis-information in this perticular catogory is liable to cost someone
>> >> money. I for one am all for keeping this NG full of FACTS, , ,not
>> >> opinions labeled as facts. . .
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >Not interested in arguing with you - the point of the matter is that
>the
>> >OP
>> >> >should stick with the manufactures recommended fuel rather than
>changing
>> >to
>> >> >15% Nitro for better fuel economy!
>> >> >
>> >> There is no reason to do so, ,, , you are spreading false information.
>> >
>> >NO!!! Again 15% is made for aircraft and not for on-road vehicles!!
>>
>> WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG
>> WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG! Jees. .. You can find ANY
>> nitro % fuel designed for ANY application.....There is 15% general
>> purpose fule, truck/buggy fuel, , aero fuel, and heli fuel. Here are
>> some examples. .. . .
>
>Sorry but your misinformed! 15% nitro is made for aircraft and the general
>purpose 15% nitro fuel you refer to is for flying things, aircraft or
>perhaps copters and has never been made for land vehicles.

Read it again. . . .I have yet to see you post ANY supportive
documentation to your claims. . . .That is because you have none. . .
.. .

>
>> http://www.morganfuel.com/cp_blends.htm
>> http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXJC49&P=0
>>
>http://www.looksmartsportsautos.com/p/articles/mi_qa3825/is_200207/ai_n9113753
>>
>> If you want people to believe what you post, , ,link to some
>> supporting documentation. . . .
>
>Those three links support what I have been saying all along i.e. 15% Nitro
>is for aircraft only!!!
Then you have a problem reading. . . .Here's just one example of your
inability to accept that fact that you are wrong:

BYRON ORIGINALS

Race Fuel Byron Race Fuel is available in a wide variety of blends for
serious and sport RC car drivers. Competitive blends range from 10
percent nitro (Race 1000) to 30 percent (Race 3000). Race 1600 (16%
nitro) and Race 2500 (25% nitro) are specially blended to meet IFMAR-
and EFRA-sanctioned racing requirements, RACE 1500 (15% nitro and 18%
lube packaging) is available to meet specific manufacturer warranty
requirements. All Byron RACE Fuels come in gallons and half gallons.

RC Car. . . .. 15%. . . .. .


>
>Try this because I am sure that these people are a bit more knowledgeable
>that you are. Try telling this to your LHS and see what they tell you. Any
>LHS will say the exact same thing I keep trying to tell you, 15% Nitro has
>and always will be made for just Aircraft and anything else that flies.
>However, as you can see from the links above there are manufactures that
>provide 10% and 16% nitro fuels made just for land based vehicles! I know
>this sounds a bit crazy but whether you like it or not that's the way it is
>and has always been!!!!!
>
I did ask my LHS, they also said you were wrong. . .. . you still have
yet to post ANY supporting documentation . . . .. .

If you can't provide any documentation suporting your claim, , then
don't bother replying. . .. . .

[\Doc\]

"looking" <nunya@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bpP2g.13372$P2.7356@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com...
> Ahh Cooler, more informed minds reign.....
>
> Ive built a buch of 1000 hp plus chevys, and thought the same principles
> applied...
>
> GERRY

Us 1:1 gearheads tend to be a bit more knowledgeable than the folks on here
who have only wrenched on wee little glow engines. I too have built many
Chevy smallblocks and bigblocks; when you understand the general concepts of
internal combustion engines you tend to understand the simpler motors a bit
better as well. After all, our nitro engines are essentially 2-stroke
diesels.

With 1:1 motors we up compression with different pistons and/or heads with
smaller combustion chambers; with nitro we add nitro content (nitromethane
is non-compressible).

With higher compression 1:1 engines high octane fuel and/or retarted base
timing is necessary to control detonation; with nitro we use a cooler glow
plug to retard ignition timing.

Same general principles that apply to all liquids that go
boom...............just a different way of controlling them.

Folks on here tend to drastically overly complicate the workings of a nitro
engine and the dynamic fuel/oil/nitro plays on the engine. After all, these
are the simplest little motors around.

IMHO, you don't really know how to tune an engine until you've built your
very own 454 with an 8-71 sitting on top with dual 1050's trying to suck you
into the motor!

Doc

[looking]

1050's? Throw a set of hillborn stacks on there, bolt it into a 1300 lb
altered, and have at it! Now try to tune that beast.. Mechanical injection,
with alky

GERRY

""Doc"" <nospam@noway.com> wrote in message
news:moWdnQrzO4AM39HZRVn-rw@adelphia.com...
>
> "looking" <nunya@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:bpP2g.13372$P2.7356@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com...
>> Ahh Cooler, more informed minds reign.....
>>
>> Ive built a buch of 1000 hp plus chevys, and thought the same principles
>> applied...
>>
>> GERRY
>
> Us 1:1 gearheads tend to be a bit more knowledgeable than the folks on
> here who have only wrenched on wee little glow engines. I too have built
> many Chevy smallblocks and bigblocks; when you understand the general
> concepts of internal combustion engines you tend to understand the simpler
> motors a bit better as well. After all, our nitro engines are essentially
> 2-stroke diesels.
>
> With 1:1 motors we up compression with different pistons and/or heads with
> smaller combustion chambers; with nitro we add nitro content (nitromethane
> is non-compressible).
>
> With higher compression 1:1 engines high octane fuel and/or retarted base
> timing is necessary to control detonation; with nitro we use a cooler glow
> plug to retard ignition timing.
>
> Same general principles that apply to all liquids that go
> boom...............just a different way of controlling them.
>
> Folks on here tend to drastically overly complicate the workings of a
> nitro engine and the dynamic fuel/oil/nitro plays on the engine. After
> all, these are the simplest little motors around.
>
> IMHO, you don't really know how to tune an engine until you've built your
> very own 454 with an 8-71 sitting on top with dual 1050's trying to suck
> you into the motor!
>
> Doc
>

[\Doc\]

"looking" <nunya@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:OA13g.18131$P2.13503@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com.. .
> 1050's? Throw a set of hillborn stacks on there, bolt it into a 1300 lb
> altered, and have at it! Now try to tune that beast.. Mechanical
> injection, with alky
>
> GERRY

That's beyond my skill level Gerry! Never got into Hillborn or Alky; most
of my builds were pump friendly NA motors with a few blown ones here and
there. Sounds like you built em' for bracket racing huh? I mostly built
for street and modified street use.

Doc

[looking]

Yea, all brackets.

Ran a business building bracket cars until money got to tight for everyone


""Doc"" <nospam@noway.com> wrote in message
news:9LqdnV9ol9j7edHZnZ2dnUVZ_tCdnZ2d@adelphia.com ...
>
> "looking" <nunya@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:OA13g.18131$P2.13503@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com.. .
>> 1050's? Throw a set of hillborn stacks on there, bolt it into a 1300 lb
>> altered, and have at it! Now try to tune that beast.. Mechanical
>> injection, with alky
>>
>> GERRY
>
> That's beyond my skill level Gerry! Never got into Hillborn or Alky; most
> of my builds were pump friendly NA motors with a few blown ones here and
> there. Sounds like you built em' for bracket racing huh? I mostly built
> for street and modified street use.
>
> Doc
>

[DanTXD]

""Doc"" <nospam@noway.com> wrote in message
news:6oKdnbn8AriNOtbZnZ2dnUVZ_v6dnZ2d@adelphia.com ...
>
> "Richard" <DK@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:444b5e3b$1@quokka.wn.com.au...
>
>> I'm still trying to figure out how 15% nitro fuel is primarily designed
>> for
>> aircraft glow engines. I can understand how 15% nitro fuel with a oil
>> content suited to aircraft engines is suited to aircraft engines but why
>> would all fuel be the same and be designed for the one form of model
>> engine???
>>
>> Confused???
>>
>>
>> Cheers
>> Richard
>
> You're confused because what you were told was wrong. 15% nitro fuel is
> NOT primarily designed for aircraft glow engines. I know alot of guys who
> run 15% in their land vehicles because it's cheaper than 20% and they
> don't really care about the added performance 20% offers for backyard
> bashing purposes. Hell, you could run 10% in your stuff if you really
> wanted to.
>

Heh, I've run 10 before :-)

--
Dan

[DanTXD]

""Doc"" <nospam@noway.com> wrote in message
news:moWdnQrzO4AM39HZRVn-rw@adelphia.com...
>
>
> Folks on here tend to drastically overly complicate the workings of a
> nitro engine and the dynamic fuel/oil/nitro plays on the engine. After
> all, these are the simplest little motors around.
>
>

But that happens everywhere, and in theory it could be right. However, in
the real world and with practical experience, we all know that it doesn't
actually matter if you change your fuel, you just re-tune and away you go :)

--
Dan

[\Doc\]

"DanTXD" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:4b51trF1072uqU1@individual.net...

>> You're confused because what you were told was wrong. 15% nitro fuel is
>> NOT primarily designed for aircraft glow engines. I know alot of guys
>> who run 15% in their land vehicles because it's cheaper than 20% and they
>> don't really care about the added performance 20% offers for backyard
>> bashing purposes. Hell, you could run 10% in your stuff if you really
>> wanted to.
>>
>
> Heh, I've run 10 before :-)
>
> --
> Dan

With a hot enough plug our motors would run on 5%. The performance would
blow, but they'd run.

Doc