New VTOL builder wanting to build a VTOL

[mandrin13]

I have decided to build a VTOL.I have never built one before,so I will probobly need some help building it.

I would like a delta wing,with the fan in the middle.There will be 2 fans in the back for propulsion.I will start building tonight.I just need electronics,and stuff.Plaease give me any advise,and i will post photos when I can.Thanx

[mandrin13]

Okay,i have a basic airframe,well sort off.I am not sure how to post pics,so I will describe it.

Its a delta wing,.Its a triangular shape,and It has a rudder about 4-5 inches high,and 16 in long.About 10 inches from the bottom there are two sort of wing things sticking out of the side.that is were I plan to put two brushless moters.The winglets will be attached two sercos,wich will move them in different directions for turning,and hovering,etc. I havent figured out the wing area yet,but I will soon.But I think it is 32 or 36 inches tall,and15-20 inches long.Plus the winglet things.It glides well.

I wilkl update when there is more progress,and I still dont know how to post pics.Thanx. :)

[MustangAce17]

for mpics, go to reply, scroll down to MANAGE ATTACHMENTS and click, then find ur pics and double click them then close the window and click submit reply

[mandrin13]

Here are pics,I hope they work.

Thanx

[v22chap]

Where is the location of your middle fan your talking about going to be ,,and is it going to be your pitch axis control of lift only control???

[mandrin13]

I decided not to use that.Were can I get the best prices on electronics?Servos,speed controls,recievers,radios,etc.Does anybody have any extras.

Do you think this will fly?

[guyaneze]

why not build a JAR or mini JAR? its capable of vertical take off and landing with just one prop....similar to your delta idea with one prop on the nose.

[v22chap]

Servo city has about the best prices on servos.
servo city (http://www.servocity.com/)

And I would imagine that most GWS stockers will have ab
out the same price on the fan units.
Larry

[guyaneze]

servo city hs-55 === 16.49 (+ 3.85 shipping)


hobby-lobby hs-55 === 12.90
at least 4 can fit in their 4x4 box ($2.50 shipping anywhere)
4 x hs-55 = $54.10 shipped == $13.52 per servo shipped


tower hs-55 === 12.99
special - 3 x hs-55 === 36.97 == 12.32 per servo...+ 3.99 shipping (parts express eligible)

[v22chap]

Whoop's ,,been awhile since I shopped for servos I guess !!! :eek: ;) :rolleyes:

[mandrin13]

guyaneze,can you explain moor about this.This is pretty big,so I dont know if 1 prop on the nose could lift it all.

Thanx all,I would like to know if you think it will fly.It weighs like 4-5 ounces already,and I will try to get the lightest stuff I can that will work for me.

Do you think the large airframe,and light wieght to create enough lift ,when transitioning from hover to flight.

First I would like to get it to hover.What is a small engine that provides alot of thrust?Will i need a gyro for this design?

[guyaneze]

There are several flat plate designs that can take off and land vertically with with a single prop....if anyone knows of any others..please chime in....

The Warp-9
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=143839

I have videos on my rchomepage of an IPS powered, 22" span warp-9 taking off and landing vertically (and flying around normally)

The JAR
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=459443

This is probably the most popular one right now (planes go in and out of popularity...some never come back)....if you go to that thread and ask questions the guys there should help you build one.
Actually there is a JAR and Mini-JAR

Hobby-lobby's Pogo
http://www.hobby-lobby.com/pogo.htm


The IFO (not a foamy, but is carbon rods and ripstop nylon), can be modified to sit on its tail and take off vertically...and can land that way too.
http://www.wildrc.com/

I'm sure there are more.

No none of these need a gyro, the idea is to keep it simple.

[mandrin13]

The jar is cool,but I would like to try my own idea,I like it more.lol.If you can see in the pics,I added a little weight to the front so I could get it to glide.I will try to get it done as soon as I can.

[mandrin13]

V22chap,thanks for the link to servo city,now I just need $147,do you think a 5ch radio will work.

Those two winglets on the side of the plane are going to move in different directions,so it will be sort of like a mini thrust vectering aileron.The winglets will be attached to servo's,and there will be a light but powerful moter on each one.

[v22chap]

5 channel is going to be cutting it close ,,,and I doubt that most 5 channels have mixing channels capability in them ,,not sure about that , so you will probably need a couple onboard mixers for the controls.
VTOL isn't cheap ,,,even in the park flyer area.
Larry

[MustangAce17]

i seconds Larry on this my parkflyer VTOL is well over $400 by now

[mandrin13]

Well how many channels,and what radio do you recomend?

[v22chap]

Some how I just knew you were going to ask that question when I typed in the last reply.
Here is best I can figure not knowing exactly what all you want to do.
1- channel mixed to 2 channel for roll axis
3-channel mixed to 4 channel for yaw axis and that mixed into 5 channel for pitch axis
1 more channel for tilting process
3 more to be able to shut off the heli mixes when you go into airplane mode ,,you have to mix the 3 control axis into the Aux channels in order to be able to shut them off with a stunt switch .
1 more to mix you yaw gyro into so it can be switched off in airplane mode.
So far that is a 9 channel radio !!!!!

Now some of this can be done with this onboard mixer that Joe is making for VTOL people.It isn't out there yet ,,but Rudy and I have the proto types and it should not be long.Then your 5 channel radio might just do it. But the choice is up to you .... buy a 375.00 computer radio now or wait a few more months and get the Th-2 GP from Joe....
Good luck
Larry

[mandrin13]

How much wil that onboard mixer?I like that idea better

[mandrin13]

9CAS Futaba Package (High)
Product # SC9073000033333310
Transmitter: 9CAS Tx (FUTK31)
Channel: Any Channel above 36 (FUTL17__)
Futaba Receiver: R127DF (FUTL0703)
Crystal: Any Channel above 36 (FUTL58__)
Servo: S3003 (FUTM0028)
Servo: S3003 (FUTM0028)
Servo: S3003 (FUTM0028)
Servo: S3003 (FUTM0028)
Servo: S3003 (FUTM0028)
Servo: S3003 (FUTM0028)
Battery: 4.8V 270mah (57405)
Switch: Micro Switch (54403) $361.82
$0.00 Discount $361.82
$0.00 Discount

Its a little less then what you said,9ch's,do you think this would work?

here's the link.
http://www.servocity.com/html/9ca_super_systems.html

The 9ca is the one Im looking at.With all 6 servo's.

[mandrin13]

I also was thinking about my plane,and I whas wondering if it would have a had time turning wih those winglets.What if I mounted the engines on the ones that are on there already,and put another pair in the front someware for turning.That might work better.

[mandrin13]

I just thought that that wouldnt work,because of when its in heli mode,it couldnt turn.

[beanie]

Futaba Receiver: R127DF (FUTL0703)
The 9ca is the one Im looking at.With all 6 servo's.

mandrin13, just fyi. this receiver is 7 channels and doesn not allow you to take advantage of the 9 channel capability of the 9C Super. in fact, if you want all 9 channels, my understanding is that you need to get the pcm reciever, but don't quote me on that. you probably already knew that since you have 6 servos selected instead of 9. but just in case. the 9C Super is a great transmitter by the way. i love mine. well worth the money. i've got about 24 planes and 3 choppers programmed into it.
good luck.
-beanie

[v22chap]

Sorry it took so long to reply Mandrin, but this week has been a busy one.
I just called Tower hobbies help line and yes the one you are looking at only comes with an 8 channel RX. You have to go with a PCM unit to get the full 9 channel RX.

You will also want to get the 9C "H " version 9chs heli version (http://www.servocity.com/cgi-bin/shopper.cgi) as if you don't and you eventually do collective on a project ,,you'll waste a lot of mixes ,,to just get helicopter collective setup in the one you are looking at which is airplane mode only .....
and it is easier to fly an airplane on a heli radio than the other way around.
It also is still only 361.84 with 6 servos.


You can get the TH2-GP onboard mixer for 144.99 , TH 2 - GP (http://www.techmodelproducts.com/kits.php)
and you can get that now and if I am not mistaken ,,,it probably will do the throttle mix that you need right now and by the time you get ready to do any conversion test the beta unit of VTOL should be done and out for you to try ,but if you are going to do 4 fans ,,I doubt that it will do what you want then .

I also can almost gurantee that the two fan deal is not going to work. !!!Although John Gorham ,back in the 70's did a .60 size twin ducted fan for the government. It flew and convered ,,just barely and John was a super pilot working for NASA and using all thier knowledge and equipment .He also used a NASA proven vane system under the fans to control it.

Now if you have plenty of time and money and want to mess around with it anyhow ,,that is fine and your decision ,,but if you don't have the money or time I would try one of the other already kitted foam birds and try them . The hobby lobby pogo looks to be really a fun little park flyer VTOL and would be a great addition to anyones fleet and wouldn't require all the extra equipment that we are talking about here.
Just my 2 cents and good luck which ever way you go.
Larry

[beanie]

You will also want to get the 9C "H " version 9chs heli version (http://www.servocity.com/cgi-bin/shopper.cgi) as if you don't and you eventually do collective on a project ,,you'll waste a lot of mixes ,,to just get helicopter collective setup in the one you are looking at which is airplane mode only .....
and it is easier to fly an airplane on a heli radio than the other way around.
It also is still only 361.84 with 6 servos.


the 9C super comes in a 9CAF, 9CAP, 9CHF and 9CHP. the last letter tells you if it is FM or PCM. don't worry, all of them will control FM or PCM, depending on which setting you select. the only difference is that the complete FM kits come with an FM reciever and the PCM kits come with a PCM reciever. the 2nd to last letter tells you if it default sets up to A (Airplane) or H (Heli) mode. don't worry once again. the radios are essentially completely identical. there are a couple differences in terms of placement of a couple switches and the heli model does not have those clicks you feel in the throttle stick. but you can open it up and convert back and forth between the clickiness of the throttle stick. the programming for both are exactly the same. you won't lose out on any mixes between the two. it is just that the 9CA radios default to airplane setting. and the 9CH defaults to heli setting. but you can easily enter into the programming mode and convert between the 2 and recover all the different mixes. the only reason i am clarifying this is that if you are tight on money, you can usually get the A versions for a little cheaper than H versions.
-beanie

[mandrin13]

Thanx,all of this stuff is a little confusing,but I think I understand it.

I have come up with a new design for my VTOL.It will be saucer shaped,kind of like a UFO.That is kind of what I whant it to look like.I was gone this weekend,but I drew some pics of what I want it to look like.

I think it will be 3 feet in diameter,and about 8 inches high at its highest.For hovering it will be powered by 4 edf fans that will be placed in the front,sides,and back.For propulsion there will be 2 small brushless motors placed on the ailerons.Kind of like thrust vectoring.There will be three rudders on the bottom,that will be made out of a CD case,so you cant see them.Those will hold it above the ground.

I think that will require less sevo's and electronics,with this design.

here are some pics

[mandrin13]

Okay I made the fuselage. Here are some pics.

I made alot of modifications to the drawings from up there^.There will be one prop for hovereing not 4,and one prop for propulsion,not 2.

Instead of being 4 feet,I made it 20" in diameter.I will not be using the edf's,instead I will be using 1 brushless motor inside the top.

I would like to use this one for hovering
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=EFLM1400

And this will go on the back,between the alerons,for propulsion
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=EFLM1300

If you noticed in the pics,the cover is hollow so I can put electronics in there.
I will still be putting rudders on the bottom.

I plan to paint everything silver,so it looks like a real alien spacecraft.

The model doesnt glide very well yet,because there is no rudder,it just spins around.I can tell you more later.

[sphericalone]

ok try this one out I have decided to build a VTOL.I have never built one before,so I will probobly need some help building it.

I would like a delta wing,with the fan in the middle.There will be 2 fans in the back for propulsion.I will start building tonight.I just need electronics,and stuff.Plaease give me any advise,and i will post photos when I can.Thanx