My First Aero Ace Project - C130

[Chris64]

Hello,
I'm new here. A guy at my work introduced me to the Aero Ace and this great site...needless to say, I'm totally hooked. In fact, it's safe to say all progress at my office has crept to a halt as we have 3 planes and 3 back-ups charged and ready to go at all times.

Anyway, I just had the maiden flight of my first project. It's a C130 so I had to sacrifice 2 AA's (AA police must stop reading at this point) for all the parts. I ended up just running both motors parallel. It seems to run fine, but the battery drains a little faster since there's basically twice the load on the ESC. To prevent any major problems with diving in corners I wired the motors so that the left motor controls the outside left motor and the inside right motor. I was hoping this would help it from diving straight into the ground. Don't get me wrong, it's touchy, but I think it flies great! I'm so pleased. It looks so good flying, even with a mild wind.

Much of it is still unfinished (including paint) but now I'm motivated to take the time on the finishing details. The "tanks" on the wings were there to protect the props...the very first flight did cost me one prop ( :censored: ). Right now it's 3mm depron but I'd like them to be solid foam. It only weighs 2 motors more than a standard AA. It will take off perfectly from the ground on with the landing gear. The fuselage is made from a Sony DVD packing foam.

Another Note: The wing span is 13 inches. Proper scale would have been 14.5 with the size of the props, so I just spaced the motors out a bit. Overall, it's mostly scale but I did deepen the wings a tad. I'll try to get some video of it Monday.

Oh, yeah...sorry about the poor quality pics...cell phone.

[arclite5]

can it rog?

[Joshua Wesley]

Dude, that is so cool!

[Chris64]

can it rog?

Yes...surprisingly well...assuming rog means take off from the ground. I put some wheels on my AA in both a tail drag and tricycle config and it was all over the place. This tracks pretty straight.

But...to be completely honest...I only launched it in our lobby and let it drop right back down (it started raining outside).

[derk]

very cool.

i started on one a few years ago, i had it to the piont of installing radio gear but didnt have any to put into it :( and it had all 5 wheels and everything. maybe i'll do a new one in depron....

[Hepdog]

Very nicely done. I really like the crossed motor idea.

Confirm you are running 4 motors off 1 RX board???? Didn't know you could do that.......AA police indeed.

[relaxr]

Nice one Chris64 !
Just a question, do you get any negative interference and probs between both driven gears in your C130, or do they just work perfectly parallel.
I am planning since some days a 4-engined beast :eek: on AA/xt gears. This morning I got a xt double pack channel B - and my exactos are sharp... :D :D :D ...

Bye

[Chris64]

Very nicely done. I really like the crossed motor idea.

Confirm you are running 4 motors off 1 RX board???? Didn't know you could do that.......AA police indeed.

Yes I'm running 4 motors off one board. I read somewhere on here that a guy tied 6 motors on a single board and it worked. I figured if it doesn't explode from that it should handle 4 OK. I don't know if it's going to cause problems down the line...but RX's are cheap and I have at least one spare now.

That being said, I'm seriously considering rewiring it so the motors are in series. The lowest throttle setting is more than enough power to pull the plane pretty good. Full throttle is enough to almost lift it vertical. If it's in series it would have great charge times and a more useable power range (but it might not be able to do a rolling take off).

RELAXR, I get a couple little jitters when the antenna is down and the throttle reaction time seems slower than my other AA, but I'm thinking that probably doesn't have anything to do with the motors. In fact...it had those problems when I only had 2 motors connected now that I think about it.

One of the trickiest parts was dealing with the props. I just reversed the wire's originally so the props were going against their intended direction. That just doesn't work. They have about 25% of the thrust when running that way. Full speed couldn't even gain lift. Then trying to find a drill bit was a pain as it's way smaller than 1mm (Note: a Pin-vise with assorted bits saved the day). After that I originally had so much up-thrust that the plane went straight-up...it would have probably done a perfect loop if I didn't panic.

derk...5 wheels would be awesome...I figure I'm going to paint the whole bottom the same color to conceal it. Maybe build a little Depron skirt so there isn't a big hole.

[geetarkid]

im thinking about getting an aero ace do you think i should (keep in mind this will be my fist plane)

[nolan_griffiths]

geetarkid,
only one answer to your question- YES.
My first (and only) plane and I'm hooked. They are cheap, really strong and most important of all loads of fun. Go for it, you won't regret it.

[JRuggiero]

Aero Ace is the best $30 investment in the hobby. The stock airplane flies up a storm right out of the box (as long as the wings and tail aren't bent out of the box). It has so much power it'll climb on the lowest throttle setting in calm air. Because its motors turn in opposite directions from each other, there is no torque effect to fight, so it turns equally well both left and right. No other two-motor, differential thrust-steering airplane is as good, and it's better than the cheapies that claim to use bang-bang rudder for turning.

Aero Ace! Accept no substitute!

Jim R

[Fanboy]

Edit: weird double-post...

[Fanboy]

Aero Ace! Accept no substitute!X-Twin! Accept no rebranding! :D

Oh, and that's a great C130, Chris64. :)

[relaxr]

Aero Ace and X-twing is just ok! They make our hearts warm and give us craetivity :D :D :D

Edit: fanboy - the snow racer (or how its called? -> star wars :) ) in your avatar pic I was thinking some time before about to get flying with AA/xt-gears as a foamie. Should work .....just a comment.

Bye

[iter]

Yes I'm running 4 motors off one board. I read somewhere on here that a guy tied 6 motors on a single board and it worked. [...]

That being said, I'm seriously considering rewiring it so the motors are in series. The lowest throttle setting is more than enough power to pull the plane pretty good. Full throttle is enough to almost lift it vertical.
I did the 6-motor Peacemaker, and my experience has been very similar. Unfortunately, I could not rewire 3 motors in series, because that would give each too little voltage. But with 2 motors per channel, I would highly recommend wiring the motors in series.

Ari.

[Chris64]

I did the 6-motor Peacemaker, and my experience has been very similar. Unfortunately, I could not rewire 3 motors in series, because that would give each too little voltage. But with 2 motors per channel, I would highly recommend wiring the motors in series.

Ari.

I've been thinking about it all weekend...I'm just not sure. I'd love a better throttle range, but at the same time...full throttle right now is like a JATO system on the real C-130. I hate to lose that unlimited power. Oh Well, you can't have everything.

Now, another option I've been considering. A plantraco 3 channel. Wire the motors in 2 pairs in parallel & those pairs in series so it would look like just one motor. Then give it elevator and aileron. I'd love to go that route...but that's another $200.

What I really need to figure out now is a nice way to put some consistent air foil on the wing. Right now I just cut the shape in the fuselage but it only holds that shape for a couple inches. The wing tips have no air-foil at all.

Any suggestions? It's 3mm Depron.

[Rocketman1092]

You can heat the foam with a heat gun (for MonoKote) or possibly a hair dryer and then shape the foam over a round object. That's how I form airfoils from FFF or Depron.

[Chris64]

You can heat the foam with a heat gun (for MonoKote) or possibly a hair dryer and then shape the foam over a round object. That's how I form airfoils from FFF or Depron.

Thanks for your suggestions. I tried that before and it didn't work too well. My wing turned into a pretzel. I know I'm just doing something wrong because I've seen some amazing examples of it done correctly.

Am I correct in thinking that the heated area shrinks? That's what happened to me (and the edges expanded).

I was thinking if I layed a piece of wood over the leading edge and trailing edge (to protect from heat), exposing only about 1/4 inch of the middle/bottom portion of the wing I could possibly just heat it for a minute or so. If that works I could move the wood back and forth (and reheating) fine tuning the curve. Do you think that would work or can you elaborate on your method?

[Bobber Bob]

Hi Chris...

I have had my best luck, by just mechanically deforming (crushing) the Depron, with just a slight over bending.

On my 6mm Depron wings, I sand off the inside of the curved surface, then deform it over an edge of a table. It only takes a slight over bend, and then I hit it with a heat gun (while holding it in it's curve), set on high, to glaze over the bare sanded area, and that seems to lock in the curve.

My oldest set of wings has out lived 3 rebuilds of the model, and still, even today, have all of their curve intact (the tomcat did not survive it's 4th and last "rekitting").

With 2 and 3mm Depron, I have not bothered sanding the skin off, on the inside of the curve, and, if done patiently, there is no visible "destressing" of the outer skins surface.

It took very little practice to come up with the needed "feel" to get the desired results, and I mean, just a couple of scraps.

The biggest thing that you will have to watch out for (no matter what technique you use), is the "grain" of the Depron, as that will influence the outcome more then your method !!

For the more full bends, some folks use tape on the outside of the bend, to force the crushing of the inside, and they seem to have very good luck with that. I have not tried that myself, as I have found that the crushing of it by edges and shapes, has been good enough for me, and it saves me a step.

Bob

Bob Reynolds
ComeUpHere

[UAVPilot]

I use the Tape method with great results. With # 2080 3M tape, it does not pull the surface off, and can be used over. A small tube helps for consistent bends.
Afterword, if I want to really lock it in, I will wipe a tin coat of foam safe CA on the bottom surface. Use a paper towel to remove as much glue as possible, then hit it with a light dusting of accelerator.
Depron does have a grain, and does roll better one way then the other. Test with a small piece of tape.

[utzguy]

I have been playing with Zepron, and while I am still learning I have found a couple interesting things:
Shaping wings: I used a large cardboard tube and held the wing against it with a sheet of typing paper while I used a heat gun on it. Pull the paper tight on the back of the tube. Once I got the heat right it not only curved the wing, but it smoothed out the top surface somewhat.
Flat pieces: after seeing the result with the paper, I tried ironing the foam with a sheet of paper on top using a mono-kote trim iron. Again this gave a smoother surface. I found you have to work both sides of the zepron to get it to stay flat and you want to hold it down until it cools a little.

I have searched for threads on depron/zepron techniques, but haven't had much luck. The tape method looks interesting, but I am not sure exactly how it works. More details, UAVPilot? Any other suggested reading for foam working techniques anyone?

[Chris64]

Well, here's what I did:

I creased it on the corner of my desk in 3 spots making what looked like a good shape (minus the kinks of course), then I lined the bottom surface with clear scotch tape in the area's I didn't want to get too much heat (not sure how much scotch tape will reduce heat...but I figure anything will help), then I went into our kitchen, pushed down the toaster and slowly drew the wing back and forth, crease side down about an inch or two over the toaster. It pulled the creases out and appears to be holding the shape pretty good. The only problem is that it did pull the wings down causing a reverse dihedral. I countered this by running a piece of tape from wing-tip to wing-tip. I'd like to make something a little more elegant than tape...maybe Carbon leading edge, or maybe a little more heat to the top center.

[UAVPilot]

Try forming it in your sink with hot water, that works pretty good to. the just hit it with cold to "cure" it

[Unyon]

Wackiest tip yet (no good for small wings though) ....

I was sitting one day pondering a freshly cut pair of wings, wondering how I was going to get the right foil curve, when my wife brought me a cup of tea.
Bingo! I just held the leading edge part of the wing against the (hot) cup of tea for 15 seconds, then moved it along a bit, held it, and repeated until I had the right curve the length of the wing.

I've used this technique for 3mm and 6mm depron. Works a treat!

(I've been on the lookout for various sized mugs with 'straight' sides ever since! lol)

[relaxr]

Try forming it in your sink with hot water, that works pretty good to. the just hit it with cold to "cure" it

Hi - that seems to be very (!) good hint, as the heat is applied in every case homogenous as parts are surrounded by warm/hot water :) - I'll try that. My attempts with increasing temps treatment trough flat-iron and hot gun were not so successful, all tested pieces may be suited for the museum of modern art - not for any planes. Maybe for the ugly contest...... :D.

I made also good experiences with cold shaping after pressing lines with a ruler in it. Then I fold carefully over my bench edge. The shapes maybe fixed trough some thin glue film or through glueing the wings on preformed fuse structures.

Bya - keep your depron warm

[Jeff Kelety]

Hey all - I've been inspired by the Aero Ace and the possiblities for using the hardware as per this thread. Question though: anyone know where to get 1/32 (1MM?) depron similar to the tail feathers on the Aero Ace?

Thanks,
Jeff

[Bobber Bob]

Hi Jeff...

The closest you are going to get to the tail feather's thickness (about 0.035"), is the CHEEPEST picknic plates (like the dollor stores have), and that can be as thin as 0.045" thick).

Bob

Bob Reynolds
. ComeUpHere

[Jeff Kelety]

Depron plates! Brilliant. Thanks, Bob.

[Bobber Bob]

Hi Jeff...

Those plates, are more likely STYRENE, but for this application, who cares... Big Smile !!

Bob

Bob Reynolds
. ComeUpHere